Cheyenne WY / Scottsbluff, NE / Northern CO - HDTV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1414 Old 12-10-2002, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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With KLWY-DT (Fox from Cheyenne) scheduled to go live tomorrow, it's time for a Northern Colorado DTV thread...
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post #2 of 1414 Old 12-10-2002, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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According to antennaweb.org, here's the status of Cheyenne-based DTV:
  • KLWY-DT (Fox on 28) is scheduled to go live on Dec 11 2002
  • KKTU-DT (NBC on 11) is scheduled to go live on Dec 15 2002
  • KGWN-DT (CBS on 30) is scheduled to go live on Dec 31 2002
I've sent email to each of the above stations asking for an update. So far, only the GM of KGWN has responded:
Quote:


Thanks for your note. Yes the plan is to be digital by 12/31/02. I
would guess we will be slightly behind schedule, and should be fully HDTV for mid to late January.

I'll post the other responses if and when I get them...
- digiphotonerd
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post #3 of 1414 Old 12-10-2002, 06:04 PM
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On 10/18 I received an email from KKTU (NBC) and they said that they would be up in about six months. So that would put them on in mid April.

On 11/27 Joan Turner at KGWN emailed me that they were still hoping for mid to late December. When was your email from KGWN?

I don't know anything about the Fox up there.

If anyone sees anything , let us all know here! I can't wait - Denver TV is about to lose my viewing.

Mike
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post #4 of 1414 Old 12-10-2002, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by mknoebel
On 11/27 Joan Turner at KGWN emailed me that they were still hoping for mid to late December. When was your email from KGWN?

Yesterday (12/10/02).
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post #5 of 1414 Old 12-11-2002, 08:35 AM
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I don't know if it is possible, but you might want to change the name of the thread to Northern Colo./Southeast WY DTV or something like that, since it is mostly the Cheyenne stations that seem to be of interest here. We might attract more participation from Cheyenne residents and maybe even from the Cheyenne stations that way.

Sorry to hear that KGWN has fallen behind schedule.

Mark
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post #6 of 1414 Old 12-11-2002, 10:40 AM
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I guess I'll have to ask for an antenna rotator for Christmas! Or just wait for the wind to blow; seems like every other week my 8-bay bowtie ends up pointing at Greeley.
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post #7 of 1414 Old 12-11-2002, 01:22 PM
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I hope you guys will still post notices in the Denver thread too. I would like to give the Cheyenne stations a shot with my UHF antenna when they go hot just to see if I can get them as a substitute for the Denver fiasco. I know I used to get the analog Cheyenne stations years ago from Boulder in a house just about a mile from where I am now. Haven't tried lately.

John M
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post #8 of 1414 Old 12-11-2002, 04:32 PM
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Great Idea on the thread.

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post #9 of 1414 Old 12-11-2002, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey fellow Northern Coloradoans -

How strong does 32-1 come in for you? My Zenith C32V23 is able to receive it with a simple $2 RS bowtie loop, from the middle of a ground floor apartment in North Loveland. However, I wasn't able to receive it at all with a WinTV-D connected to a Winegard UHF yagi.

I'm trying to determine how much to attribute to the station being really strong, vs the Zenith's new 8vsb chip being really good, vs the WinTV-D being really bad...

- digiphotonerd

P.S. Has anyone tried 28-1 today? I'm anxious to see if it's online...
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post #10 of 1414 Old 12-11-2002, 10:03 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by digiphotonerd
P.S. Has anyone tried 28-1 today? I'm anxious to see if it's online...

I tried it tonight--nothing.

However, I am getting a bit of activity on the signal strength meter on Channel 11, but no lock. I wonder if KKTU is doing some testing. If so, I hope it is at lower than their final power. The meter just bounced around--usually at 0, with some bursts into the 50s.

I'm worried about interference in some of these cases. Channel 12 has a translator on Channel 11 somewhere in the Boulder area. According to KBDI's site, that is the channel we should tune to in northern areas (see http://www.kbdi.org/about/coverage.asp ), although I don't know why, since channel 11 only gives a very weak fuzzy picture, while channel 12 looks great. But I am worried about channel 11 causing problems with KKTU-DT.

Anyone else able to get anything on channel 11?

Mark
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post #11 of 1414 Old 12-11-2002, 11:55 PM
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Quote:


I'm trying to determine how much to attribute to the station being really strong, vs the Zenith's new 8vsb chip being really good, vs the WinTV-D being really bad...

Very interesting...I'm running a WinTV-HD receiver here and I'd be interested to see the difference you get between the two receivers. I get channel 32 with no difficulty; basically a piece of wire will work. Even on the small yagi that I can rotate, I cannot find a spot where it will not lock up perfect.

I've noticed that the software (WinTV2000) has a problem with displaying the signal strength, so I cannot give an actual number. (It displays 22.4dB all the time)

It seems to pick up the other (ch18) DTV channels pretty good, and the analogs appear fine, so I can't explain your Win cards problem.


Quote:


Channel 12 has a translator on Channel 11 somewhere in the Boulder area.

This is also news to me...It must be fairly low powered as the only signal I can get on 11 is the station out on Colorado Springs. Nothing (analog) else is on 11 at this time at my location...

Thanks for the new thread...

Ken
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post #12 of 1414 Old 12-13-2002, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by mbuchana
However, I am getting a bit of activity on the signal strength meter on Channel 11, but no lock. I wonder if KKTU is doing some testing. If so, I hope it is at lower than their final power.

I got a reply from the chief engineer at KKTU this morning:
Quote:


Actually we are currently broadcasting a DTV signal in Cheyenne. It is rather low power and we are on a temporary antenna that puts most of the power over Cheyenne. It is channel 11. It is currently just standard definition, but it is a very high quality signal because we feed it with a digital uplink.

Good luck and let me know if you can receive it.

...and here's the message I sent back:
Quote:


Thanks for the reply. Any idea when you'll be broadcasting at a higher ERP and/or from the permanent antenna? There are a lot of folks in Northern Colorado that have given up on Denver and are anxious to start watching the Wyoming stations for their DTV...

- digiphotonerd
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post #13 of 1414 Old 12-13-2002, 10:37 AM
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Looks like it's time to twist the antenna and see if I can find it!!

Mike
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post #14 of 1414 Old 12-13-2002, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by KC0COU
Very interesting...I'm running a WinTV-HD receiver here and I'd be interested to see the difference you get between the two receivers. I get channel 32 with no difficulty; basically a piece of wire will work. Even on the small yagi that I can rotate, I cannot find a spot where it will not lock up perfect.

Hmmm -- I guess my experience is either due to the WinTV-D's tuner being really bad, or "user error" with the way I've configured the WinTV2000 software. I can get both "lock" boxes to turn green, but the output window stays solid blue. Any ideas?

Once the Cheyenne stations are up, maybe we should set up a "tunefest" where we take our various receivers to someone's house, and see how well they tune the various stations using an identical antenna feed. It'd be nice to have some solid data when making recommendations to friends...

- digiphotonerd
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post #15 of 1414 Old 12-13-2002, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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My question to the chief engineer at KKTU:
Quote:


Any idea when you'll be broadcasting at a higher ERP and/or from the permanent antenna?

His reply:
Quote:


No, I really don't have any idea when it might get better.

NOT a good sign ...
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post #16 of 1414 Old 12-14-2002, 07:12 AM
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I tried to get channel 11 in last night by rotating my antenna, but I wasn't able to pull it in at all. I didn't see anything at 28 either.

Anyone else have any luck?

Mike
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post #17 of 1414 Old 12-14-2002, 03:37 PM
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From the engineer's comments at KKTU, it sounds like that one is pretty much a lost cause for Northern Colorado viewers. Maybe we can get some more info from the GM or something.

I think the FCC won't protect them from "interference" to their digital signal unless they are full power by the end of 2004, which is a long way away. So, if they are on with a temporary low-power setup now, there is probably little incentive for them to do anything else until that timeframe, assuming their primary interest is not to spend the $ until they have to.

KKTU was one of the channels whose extension to complete construction was denied by the FCC. See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/files/dendtvextreq.pdf and search for "KKTU". I notice they have been granted a Special Temporary Authority as of 12/03/02, which expires 6/03/03, but we are pretty much in the dark as to what their plans are beyond that.

Mark
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post #18 of 1414 Old 12-17-2002, 10:29 PM
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Is anyone up North receiving channel 29? This is KDEN-DT in Longmont/Fredrick which is a 'shop-at-home' channel. They're ID'ing both 25 and 29 on their analog channel 25.

I'm getting partial lock at this time, lots of frame errors, but no picture yet...I'm guessing it's another micro-power / temp antenna situation. I'll check this in the morning.

It may not be HD, but I'd like to see something other then 32.

Ken
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post #19 of 1414 Old 12-17-2002, 10:56 PM
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On another note, I talked to an amateur radio fellow in Cheyenne tonight as he tried to receive DTV channel 11.

Interesting results: He was unable to get his receiver to work at all on 11, seems it goes into some kind of lock up every time he attempts to tune channel 11...He says there is a short blip of a strong signal, then it goes nuts. The receiver is a Samsumg SIR-T150. The only way to clear it was to cycle the power. Anyone else have a SIR-T150? The receiver works fine on the UHF channels 18, 32, and 35 out of Denver. (He lives on the ridge next to the channel 27 tower at I-25 and terry ranch)

Anyway, no luck in getting channel 11 in Cheyenne...So hard to tell how the signal is down here.

Ken
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post #20 of 1414 Old 12-18-2002, 09:35 AM
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Joan Turner at KGWN has now said that is will be January before they are on the air. They are waiting for a crew to install the transmitter at the site. Everything else is set to go.

Still nothing on any Northern Faux stations. I haven't seen anything from the Cheyenne station, and the Ft. Collins (21) won't lock at all. I emailed Peter Bangas pbang353@FOX.COM to tell him that no one here is able to get it, but he has not emailed me back.

And of course nothing out of 11 for me either.

Mike
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post #21 of 1414 Old 12-18-2002, 09:42 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by KC0COU
Is anyone up North receiving channel 29? This is KDEN-DT in Longmont/Fredrick which is a 'shop-at-home' channel. They're ID'ing both 25 and 29 on their analog channel 25.

I'm getting partial lock at this time, lots of frame errors, but no picture yet...I'm guessing it's another micro-power / temp antenna situation. I'll check this in the morning.

It may not be HD, but I'd like to see something other then 32.

Ken

I'm not getting anything on 29. Is it digital?

I'm with you, something other than 32 would be a welcome addition. Hopefully in a couple of weeks (KGWN).

Mike
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post #22 of 1414 Old 12-18-2002, 09:30 PM
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I could get the signal strength meter to bounce around on 29, and got a momentary lock, but that's it.

I guess if it is just a home shopping channel, I won't miss this one. But the broadcasters still seem intent on putting out signals that hardly anyone can receive, just to meet the FCC mandate.

Mark
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post #23 of 1414 Old 12-30-2002, 12:29 PM
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Bumping this up - anyone find anything out of Cheyenne yet??

I received a message from fox that KFCT-DT should be working. It is only 18 miles north of me, but I might need a good roof-mount antenna, probably with a pre-amp, on a rotator to have a shot at getting it. Then he suggests that I just stick with KDVR-DT.

If it is north of me, that would work out when I aim that direction for the Cheyenne stations, but I can't lock it. Anyone have any luck with it yet?

Mike
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post #24 of 1414 Old 12-30-2002, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by mknoebel
I received a message from fox that KFCT-DT should be working. It is only 18 miles north of me, but I might need a good roof-mount antenna, probably with a pre-amp, on a rotator to have a shot at getting it. Then he suggests that I just stick with KDVR-DT.

If it is north of me, that would work out when I aim that direction for the Cheyenne stations, but I can't lock it. Anyone have any luck with it yet?

According to 100000 Watts, KFCT-DT is putting out a whopping 0.88 kw, which is roughly equivalent to a "Mr. Microphone" . KFCT claims they can receive the signal from Horsetooth, but rumor has it they're using a VLBA worthy of SETI.

Seriously, though, I can get the signal meter to bounce around on KFCT-DT, but I've never gotten a lock...
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post #25 of 1414 Old 12-30-2002, 05:05 PM
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I got a message from Fox engineering about KFCT-DT also. I gave him all sorts of info about antenna setup, ghosts on analog 22, etc. I got a reply saying that if I can't get 22 OK, I won't get 21 either since it is "at much lower power".

Today I am able to get a lock on KDEN-DT in Longmont. I do have to rotate my antenna a bit from it's normal position to get it. It comes in around 60 on the Echostar 6000 meter.

It is a fuzzy home shopping network. Evidently, the analog signal they are upconverting comes complete with snow to give you that nostalgic feel of an analog channel. I don't think I'll be bothering their engineering department, asking for 5.1 sound or anything.

I do notice that 29 gets mapped to 25 by the Echostar receiver, yet 32 doesn't get mapped to 31 (which I thought was supposed to happen). Maybe that's because there is a 31 analog in the guide, or maybe channel 32 just doesn't remap.

Mark
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post #26 of 1414 Old 01-01-2003, 10:24 AM
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So I wonder what kind of an antennae and rotor mechanism will be needed to get both Cheyenne and Denver DTV stations clearly once all (or a tiny few as the case is now) are up at full power.

Anyone want to hazard a guess?

Dan

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post #27 of 1414 Old 01-03-2003, 03:05 PM
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Dan,

No way we can get KMGH up here. So I'm hoping that when KGWN gets on the air (soon??) that we can also get NBC (11) and fox out of either Ft. Collins (no one has been able to get a picture) or Cheyenne (don't know when they will be on air). So that leaves PBS out of ???

I guess what I'm rambling on about is, is it worth it to try to juggle 2 antennas just to get Faux out of Denver?? (or can you get more than that?). Because full power out of the Denver stations could be 2 years away.

Mike
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post #28 of 1414 Old 01-04-2003, 12:32 AM
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Concerning the question of receiving both Denver and Cheyenne stations when they are at full power: I don't think it will be a problem as just about any (decent) antenna should work. Right now, I can get the 1/2 power Fox on 32 with just about anything. Analogs from Lookout are also good. Stuff on Lookout mountain should make it here fine, roughly 68 miles....Cheyenne's channel 5/30 is straight North of us near I-80 and US30 at a distance of 26.5 miles. Both of these give barely line-of-sight to Ft. Collins. Check channel 5 to see how 30 will work. The problem is how many obstructions are in your way.

The real question is: what about the low-power stations that are currently running out of Denver? Out of the 3 stations transmitting from Republic Plaza, only KUSA-DT has been in about 75-80% of the time at my house. Not to give KUSA a big-head, but their signal is the best out of 16, 18, and 35. Nothing at all on 17...So 16 must be running more power or a directional antenna as they out-perform 18 all the time, which is currently the only other station I get. To get these stations I run a Channel Master 3223, which is a 7ft long yagi. Not exactly a small antenna...The RS model VU-120 in the attic just isn't having any luck.

Concerning rotors, I think the RS model and the Channel Master (the same), will work fine for most TV antennas...I run a CM 9515 for a very large antenna array and it's held up to the crazy winds I get here.

Personally I'm just going to use 2 antennas, fixed, 1 pointing North and 1 pointing South, for the time being. Both are at about 20 ft. This will get by until Denver is up and running at full power.

Using 100,000watts.com, channel 11 is using 40 watts of power from what appears to be the channel 27 tower??, So I wouldn't count on this getting this one...I have yet to see anything yet...

Ken
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post #29 of 1414 Old 01-06-2003, 01:06 PM
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Anyone seen anything out of KGWN yet?? I emailed Joan Turner last Thursday to see how things were coming along, but I haven't heard back from her yet (she usually gets right back when I email her - maybe she's taking some time off for the holidays).

Mike
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post #30 of 1414 Old 01-09-2003, 05:39 PM
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Nothing yet. Anyone know anything???

Mike
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