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post #331 of 1416 Old 01-30-2005, 12:19 PM
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I've got that waiver from KTTW. Alliance communication was able to get that done for me a few months ago. Now that they have switched control back over to DTV, it may be harder to get that waiver. Doesn't hurt to try though! It's worth it because you can get the HD feed from NY so hello Superbowl in HD!!!!!
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post #332 of 1416 Old 01-30-2005, 12:42 PM
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What kind of antennas are you using who live in Brandon/Southeast Sioux Falls? I need to get an outdoor antenna, but am waiting for recommendations from others in the area.
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post #333 of 1416 Old 01-30-2005, 04:12 PM
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bighdtvfan

Wish I would have discussed waivers more with Alliance. JoAnn at Alliance said no way I would get a waiver with a SF address even though I am east of town and about 10 miles from the tower.

I have a 120" and a 50' VHF attenna. The 120" I have been running HD pointed right at KTTW-FOX (advertised as a 175 mile antenna) I get 75% signal with it. Tried my 50" Radio Shack and could not even get a sniff.

Even though I have the 120" pointed at about 120° away from the Rowena towers, I still get all stations from there great, plus this is about 180° away from PSB and I get it great. FOX is tough to get.

If you have line of sight to the Rowena towers, you should not need much of an antenna to get those stations. Just a midrange UHF. The probelm gets to be if they are not in the same direction. KDLT is harder to get for me so I point at it and can still get KELO and KSFY and PBS
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post #334 of 1416 Old 01-30-2005, 04:42 PM
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wxman

I would try KTTW again. My signal is back up and same strength as it was prior to their coversionthis fall. Last week I had nothing from Tues to Friday, but it is up now.

I do believe it is harder to get than last winter though as I used to pick up their digital signal with my smaller antenna from my deck and as I posted earlier, I could not get even a sniff today trying that antenna which is now on top of the house. Maybe I need to have someone monitor the TV while I direct, but I have it pointed in exactly the same direction as my larger one.

Speaking of waivers -- Is there any precedence about getting waivers because of low strength signals? We obviously have a case. I think the problem is if you can get the analog signal and are in their A zone, tough.....
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post #335 of 1416 Old 01-30-2005, 04:50 PM
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Sounds like the KTTW response to colavsfan, that they do not plan to go full power and are waiting to get the HD signal on sat when D* can acciomodate them. If you read around here, that might be late this year at the very earliest.

One would think they would have to go full power when they shut off analog, but maybe not. I have no idea how the legislation reads.
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post #336 of 1416 Old 01-30-2005, 07:49 PM
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Anyone out there using something like the Winnegard Square Shooter or the Channelmaster 3000? Both are omnidirectional antennas that are more "wife friendly" when it comes to mounting it on the roof.
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post #337 of 1416 Old 01-30-2005, 11:35 PM
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Hi All, Just though I'd check in from west river. I'm located about 50 miles south of Chamberlain near Colome. Just installed a Toshiba 34hfx84
and a dish network HDTV receiver. I'm picking up KPLO-DT(KELO),
KPRY-DT(KSFY) and KMNE-DT(NE-PBS). KTSD(SD-PBS) also has a DTV transmitter at the same location as KPLO but it's a no show. Dunno why as they have the best signal of all here on analog.

I have a question for one of you Sioux Falls guys. KPLO-DT is presently SD
only. Their picture fills the screen nicely on an analog set and the Tosh
does a nice job of streching it to fill the screen.

It appears to me that KPRY-DT is upconverting SD to HD, that is I get black
bars on the sides that can't be streched completely out of the picture.
The black side bars also show up on an analog set, the picture is tall and
skinny. When they go to HDTV in the evening it looks fine on the Tosh and
of course is tall and skinny on the analog set. CBS-HD and ESPN-HD on dish
seem to use this same format. I don't like it. NE-PBS does it correctly as
far as I'm concerned, it appears to me that they are transmitting is SD during
the day and HD during the evenings. During the day the 4/3 picture can be
streched nicely by the Tosh and looks normal on the analog set.

My question is, does KELO do as NE-PBS does during the day and KSFY has the black sidebars you can't get rid of on 4/3 content?
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post #338 of 1416 Old 01-31-2005, 07:39 AM
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GravelChan

KELO HD in SF is like KSFY. KELO braodcast 1080i full time and KSFT broadcasts 720p full time. Black bars on the sides for 4:3 content. If you want to stretch that content, I would try a few things.

If you have not tried using the Dish receiver to change the picture aspect ratio, I would try that.

I assume you are running either component or DVI-to-HDMI out of the DISH receiver to the Tosh. The other thing to try is running S-Video out of DISH to the Tosh and switch to that input for SD material. You may be able to control the aspect ratio of that input with either the DISH or the Tosh remote. Maybe both of them will do it. Since you only want to do this on SD broadcasting, you should not see much of a difference in picture quality.

Assume you have the DISH 811. I looked at the web site and it appears there is no way to change rez coming out of the 811. Web sit says it upverts everything. On my SONY DirecTV receiver, I can change rez coming out of inputs to 480p or 480i and that allows me to change aspect ratios. If you could change the rez coming out of your receiver that may also be an option to try.
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post #339 of 1416 Old 01-31-2005, 05:25 PM
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bighdtvfan

Here are the specs for the antenna I have. It is big and ugly and a pain to mount, but is only one that will receive FOX reliably that I have tried. I think I am less than 8 miles from FOX antenna and this is supposed to be an 80 mi antenna. Matter of fact I can recieve KUSD Vermillion channel 2 analog very good. Also get the Sioux City Stations OK so it is a strong antenna. Less money than the omnis also. Locally Menards has it, but I am sure you could find a similar one from Karl's -- Radio Shack etc.

If you try the ones you mentioned, make sure you can take them back if they don't work. You may be able to get KELO, KSFY, PBS HD stations with something like that. I think you still need to mount it above most obstacles for it to work. I had an old powered TERK omni and it worked best on top of the house.



Magnavox Outdoor Antenna 51 Elements

P/N MANT901


Product Features

with 51 element antenna
* VHF/UHF/FM
* features double boom construction
* swept wing elements
* range: 200mi. VHF, 80mi UHF, 150mi. FM
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post #340 of 1416 Old 02-01-2005, 12:08 AM
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I noticed that KSFY-HD lost something, maybe its PSIP info, today (1-31-05). When I turned my TV to ch. 13-1 it immediatly converted to ch. 29-1, and it did not even say KSFY-DT (or whatever it used to say). I wonder if they are testing something... It still shows as 29-1 this morning (2 am 2-1-05). Also, any info on KTIV being at full power? I am anxiously waiting someone from Sioux City to be at full power, so I can see if I will need to relocate my antenna. ~ColAvsFan

In case you didn't know, I am a Colorado Avalanche fan!
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post #341 of 1416 Old 02-01-2005, 07:20 AM
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colavsfan... from pg 16


Quote:


Originally posted by rmullin
Today I spoke to Dave Madsen, general manager of KTIV in Sioux City about their HD broadcast strength and about getting KTIV-DT on our local CableOne system. Dave said that the broadcast signal would not be increased until some time in 2006, in conjunction with the other local stations using the same tower. He said that they were'nt going to do it alone, and would wait until they could coordinate with the other stations. All stations have to be at full strength power by some time in 2006.

He also said that he would be negotiating a new 3-year contract with CableOne in the next few months. Apparently his station group feels that their HD signal should be worth something to the cable system (and the cable system thinks they should get something for carrying their HD signal.) I think they both benefit if the local cable system carries their HD signal and it's a wash.

Please feel free to make friendly and reasonable requests to CableOne and KTIV to get them together and get the NBC HD signal on the cable. It benefits everyone.

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post #342 of 1416 Old 02-01-2005, 08:05 AM
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BVfan

Thanks for the reply. I answered you last night but my post went off into cyberspace so here goes again.

I was afraid I was going to get the answer you gave. :-( That is, KELO is upconverting SD to HD.

I'm using DVI to HDMI for the Tosh. I have the 921 which I assume is similar to the 811 except for the PVR functions. It does have rez options of 4/3 or 16/9 that affects all outputs from the 921 the same. Using 16/9 certainly makes the SD upconverted to HD broadcasts look better other than you still have sidebars. But then all the other 200 channels look fat and wide. The Theater Wide 1 mode on the Tosh does a much more pleasing job of stretching a 4/3 pix. So you wind up having to switch modes on both the 921 and Tosh to keep things looking good. A real pain when surfing and trying to explain it to the wife. Switching 4/3-16/9 is also buried deep in the menu on the 921. Guess I'm going to have to write a note to KSFY's chief engineer with my thoughts on this and see what his response is.

Transmitting 4/3 in SD as NE-PBS does makes it much simpler when changing channels. Maybe I'm easy to please but a good SD pix is almost as good as upconverted SD. KPLO-DT(KELO) (SD, they are not HD as of now) is definitely a sharper/cleaner picture than KELO on *E, surprise,surprise :-(.
In this case the 921 outputs in 480P.

BTW I'm using a CM 3023 (80" yagi) to pick up KPRY-DT ch19. It's lightweight but well constructed and has very good performance. KPLO-DT is ch13 so the old VHF ant works fine. NE-PBS ch15 is full power, they are 60 miles from me but I think I could almost get them on a coat hanger. :-)

I'm amazed, you walk into a TV showroom, whether around here or in Sioux Falls. You see all these expensive HDTV sets, so you know they must be selling a lot of them. Yet, you ask about OTA antennas and you get a blank stare. Apparently most of these HDTV sets are simply hooked up to standard cable and that's it. I do realize that for those of you 10 miles from the transmitter an indoor antenna will usually work, still.........
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post #343 of 1416 Old 02-01-2005, 08:51 PM
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Well KSFY is back on 13.1 and they now have station and programming info. So this answers my earlier question about my TV's programming guide. Also, I have a reply from KELO-TV~ColAvsFan

Thank you for your interest in digital TV.

According to the manufacturer of our digital encoders and the experiments that we did, adding a second channel did not have an affect on the quality of the HD channel. However, adding a third channel would mean we would have to drop the bit rate of the HD channel and that would affect the quality. For that reason we won't be adding a third channel over-the-air until improvements are made in the combining of signals and digital compression.

ABC uses the 720p format and CBS uses the 1080i format - there has always been a debate on which is better. CBS feels the 1080i format has a sharper picture because there are more lines of video, but ABC feels that 720p does better with action such as during a football game.

Thank you for the invitation to the forum!

Regards,
John Hertz
KELO TV Engineering

In case you didn't know, I am a Colorado Avalanche fan!
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post #344 of 1416 Old 02-01-2005, 09:32 PM
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GravelChan,

At least you do have options of viewing the picture the way you want with your setup. I'm sure stations are not going to change the way they broadcast the signal. You are right that the problem becomes when someone unfamiliar with your setup wants to watch something and does'nt like it wide or wants is wide, but doesn't know how to get there from here or doesn't like messing with the remote all the time.

It has taken over a year, but my wife is a convert. She used to watch maybe a movie every now and then on the 51". Tonight she "had" to see American Idol in HD on FOX. Now she is interested in learning how to run the stuff correctly so if I am not here she can make sure she can get in done.

Thanks for the antenna info. I may have to look into the one you have as mine is big and ugly and I would like to get something else. Sure sounds like your station signals are stronger than here.

In response to your HD observation, Sioux Falls can get HD on cable, so maybe that is what a lot of people are doing that get HDTV/s locally.
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post #345 of 1416 Old 02-02-2005, 09:04 AM
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Just bought a $25 Radio Shaq antenna, put it in my garage attic, and pointed toward the southeast and can now get a strong KTTW Fox 17-1 signal.
When I scanned for new digital channels on my Dish Network HD box, I lost a few of the channels I previously had with just my rabbit ears. So I got the street level map from Antennaweb.org, crawled back in the attack and spliced in the rabbit ears and monkeyed with them until I finally got these:

46.1 KDLT
36.1 KWSD (WB)
29.1 KSFY-HD (I also seemed to have lost the PSIP of 13-1)
17.1 KTTW-HD
11.2 UPN
11.1 KELO-HD
2.2 SDPB
2.1 SDPB-HD (24)

And with the Dish Network, I get:

TNTHD
DHD (Discovery)
HDNET
HDNETMV
ESPSHD

That's 9 channels of HD. I'll live with that for now.

I am only about 4 miles from the KTTW transmitter, which I understand is not even on a tower but only designed to send a signal to the local cable company dish farm.

I'm not touching a thing till after the SuperBowl. ;0)
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post #346 of 1416 Old 02-02-2005, 06:59 PM
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Reading others threads got me thinking about my OTA setup and why it seems I need such a large antenna to get FOX on some of my sets. I end up doing some splitting which drops signal everytime, I don't know exactly how much, but probably part of why I need what I have to get the signal. I think 2 way splitter drop 3 db and 3 ways drop 5.5 db. I am sure someone out there can tell us better than I.

Again I am 8-9 miles from the FOX "tower" which is SW of me.

I do a two way split right from the antenna -- one of which goes to an HD receiver (50 ft) -- the other goes to a 3 way splitter (50 ft) - that goes to an HD receiver, a HTPC setup, and a 80 ft cable run. The 80 ft cable run goes to a 0-25 db Channel Plus Amplifier that goes into a 6 way splitter. The 6 way splitter does have an HDTV receiver after it and I can get FOX-HD with about 70% signal. I have over 700 ft of quad-shielded RG6 througout the house to various locations.

So I guess what I am saying -- if you are running a short cable run to a single set, you may be able to get by with much less antenna than I have. Especially if you have a line of sight to the FOX tower.
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post #347 of 1416 Old 02-02-2005, 07:18 PM
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BVfan,

KTTW-DT is only 4 miles away from me at 126 degrees (according to antennaweb.org). and I still can't get the signal. My antenana is indoors going into a built-in tuner. I get KDLT-DT which is over 14 miles away with more buildings in that direction. I think the problem is just simply...FOX is on extremely low power.

Luckily my system has a CableCard so I've been getting KTTW just fine.

-Bryan
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post #348 of 1416 Old 02-10-2005, 07:37 AM
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I don't know about the rest of you....but I thought the Super Bowl looked great on KTTW. Broadcasting in 5.1 was a nice touch. I was very impressed, so were all the people that came over. Now if we can just get the Lions in the big game I'll be all set.

Go Blue!
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post #349 of 1416 Old 02-11-2005, 06:38 AM
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I agree, my friends that had not seen football in HD were blown away by the clarity you can have at large screen sizes which add to the enjoyment of watching an event such as the Super Bowl.

Looks like no OTA HD Sports all weekend as I looked thru the schedule.

Grammys supposed to be in HD Sunday, but not listed that way on my guide.
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post #350 of 1416 Old 02-14-2005, 07:14 AM
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The Grammys looked great on KELO, other than the expected strobe light-caused macroblocking during some performances.

I sure wish they'd add their 5.1 equipment, however. I'm spoiled after having the surround sound on Fox for the Superbowl, I guess
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post #351 of 1416 Old 02-14-2005, 08:50 AM
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Just wanted to throw it out there that I can get fox in Lennox 11.4 miles according to antenna web. I can pull it in at about 65% if I put my rabbit ears outside on my deck with a 50' run of RG-6. I think Ill change my setup in the future but for now once a week for nascar is not that big of a deal but eventually Ill get something mounted on the roof. So I think that even though they are at low power don't get discouraged it is still possible to get it and it is the ONLY local in DD5.1 which kind of makes up for their lag behind in going HD.
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post #352 of 1416 Old 02-21-2005, 02:24 PM
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Based on what we are seeing from KTTW, I posed the question in another thread as to whether a station will ever have to transmitt at high power as eventually "everyone" will be able to get their "digital" signal from either D* or cable. Both responses indicated that according to their license they should have to transmit at full power once they have a digital only llcense. That is probably a few years away though.

BTW.. I thought NASCAR was great in HD and 5.1 yesterday on FOX. The sounds during the "Crank IT Up" were something else to hear. I did have trouble with audio for the first hour or so (some crackling), but that may have been the network or my equipement. My PC to receiver digital interface has trouble locking on sometimes.
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post #353 of 1416 Old 02-25-2005, 12:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BVfan
Based on what we are seeing from KTTW, I posed the question in another thread as to whether a station will ever have to transmitt at high power as eventually "everyone" will be able to get their "digital" signal from either D* or cable. Both responses indicated that according to their license they should have to transmit at full power once they have a digital only llcense. That is probably a few years away though.

Actually, DT stations will have to boost their power BEFORE analog shutoff, though the deadline is a year later in Sioux City and Sioux Falls than it is in Omaha and Des Moines.

ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC affiliates in the top 100 markets have to go full power by July of this year. (Omaha is the nation's 76th market, Des Moines is 73rd.)

All other commercial stations (that means you, Sioux City and Sioux Falls) have to go full power by July 2006 -- or, if they're switching DT channels, they need to have a DT signal that serves at least 80 percent of their analog viewership.

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post #354 of 1416 Old 02-27-2005, 11:03 PM
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im gonna go nuts if i cant get Fox in HD soon!

In case you didn't know, I am a Colorado Avalanche fan!
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post #355 of 1416 Old 02-28-2005, 03:02 PM
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COLAVSFANINNWIA

Got to get those rabbit ears outside .... to even have a chance. Remember KTTW-HD is actually channel 7 VHF so you need the telescoping portion of the rabbit ears extended 1/2 to full.
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post #356 of 1416 Old 02-28-2005, 04:35 PM
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Will KTTW stay on VHF or will they switch to UHF in the future?
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post #357 of 1416 Old 02-28-2005, 06:42 PM
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Yes, KTTW will keep their DT on channel 7, according to their channel election form. (Sorry, I couldn't resist checking.)

While I was at it, I checked every station licensed to Sioux City and Sioux Falls and created this list similar to what I did for my home market. Hope it helps.

WHEN ANALOG ENDS ...

... The following Sioux Falls stations will STAY on their current DT channels:

KDLT (47), KCSD (24), KTTW (7)

The following Sioux Falls stations will GO BACK to their former analog channels:
KELO (11), KSFY (13), KWSD (36)

___________________________________________________

Sioux City stations STAYING on their current DT channels:
KMEG (39), KSIN (28), KTIV (41)

Sioux City stations GOING BACK to their former analog channels:
KCAU (9), KPTH (44)

___________________________________________________

SOURCE: FCC Form 382 from each station, posted on the FCC website

Views are strictly my own unless otherwise noted.
"ItÂs looking more like Y2K than the Bay of Pigs." - FCC Commissioner Adelstein, 6-13-09, on the DTV switch
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post #358 of 1416 Old 02-28-2005, 11:08 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BVfan
Got to get those rabbit ears outside .... to even have a chance. Remember KTTW-HD is actually channel 7 VHF so you need the telescoping portion of the rabbit ears extended 1/2 to full.

Tried that, Superbowl day/evening. I used anything I could find that resembeled an antenna. Rabbit ears, powered indoor antenna, FM wire antenna, and aluminum foil 2 stories up on the roof. Froze many parts of my body off (it was cold and windy up there). I could only get a "hint" of the signal. My TV would scan ch 7 for DTV for a long time before it would go to analog 7 and get snow. Normally, it does a "quick scan" of DTV before it switches to analog. But I got the same results inside just above ground level as well as outside at the same height. I know from antenna web that the tower is only 4 degrees north of straight west so I always aimed that way.~ColAvsFan

By the way, dline, does the FCC know when the stations plan on going full power?

In case you didn't know, I am a Colorado Avalanche fan!
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post #359 of 1416 Old 03-01-2005, 12:27 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by COLAVSFANINNWIA
By the way, dline, does the FCC know when the stations plan on going full power?

The only "drop dead date" I know of is the July 1, 2006 date I mentioned earlier. It applies to all stations that aren't covered by the earlier deadline, including those in markets your size (#101 and smaller).

If a station doesn't meet that deadline, it won't be able to carry its maximum service area to its digital channel -- hence its nickname, the "use it or lose it" deadline.

Until that time, it's a matter of whenever your stations stop applying for extensions of their Special Temporary Authorities (STAs), which allow them to operate their digitals at lower power.

Views are strictly my own unless otherwise noted.
"ItÂs looking more like Y2K than the Bay of Pigs." - FCC Commissioner Adelstein, 6-13-09, on the DTV switch
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post #360 of 1416 Old 03-01-2005, 04:26 PM
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Below is a map from the FCC site of the KTTW footprint. I think our feedback on this forum would show that the circle is about only 60--70% of that size. I suppose good line of sight and a good antenna would increase the distance some.
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