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post #631 of 12518 Old 06-29-2004, 04:24 PM
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Arxaw, you were right about my 4221 installation. I had installed it in a dead zone. I did a temporary installation using an old satellite dish mast just to try it out last night and was getting poor reception on all channels. I went up on the roof after work and moved it a little higher and away from some vents. The peak signals I got by just holding the antenna while my wife read them off were:

KASN - 92
KATV - 92
KARK - 91

I didn't check KTHV or KLRT because I knew they would be good. I need to do a permanent install with a rat shack tripod. I'm going to try out the CM7777 because I'm running about 80 feet of cable and I bet I can get 100's across the board with the amplification.

On a side note, I was talking to the guy a radio shack about mounting options. I told him I was trying to get all the digital channels and his eyes got real wide. I could tell he was not familiar with the digital stations. He asked what antenna I was using and I said a UHF only. He told me I couldn't get KATV because they broadcast on 7. I said that their digital broadcast is 22. He asked what type of UHF and I told him a CM 4 bay. He told me that I couldn't pick up anything from Redfield with a 4 bay. He showed me the Yagi antenna (which they happened to have in stock) that would be required. I thanked him for his time and told him I would think about it.
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post #632 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 05:52 AM
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Keep in mind, UHF-only antennas may be a short-lived solution. When the analog shutdown occurs, stations can opt to move their digital broadcast back to their orignal analog signal on VHF. My understanding is that most stations intend to do this, for the same advantages VHF afforded for analog broadcasts (coverage, power, etc.).

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post #633 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 06:03 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Arkie
Sorry if this is a little off topic since it does not deal with HD, but it is very frustrating that the local cable here in Harrison (I live 3 miles from the cable line) provides both the Little Rock and Springfield locals to their customers, but DirecTV will only give us Springfield when it comes available later this year.

I get the Springfield channels fine with an antenna, and would really like to get the Little Rock news to get an Arkansas perspective on things....

I get a signal strength in the high 70's on transponder 25. Is there any chance that if a significantly viewed provision is passed in the new SHVERA that we can get LR locals up here in the hills...?

Thanks for any help or insight on this matter...........

My parents are in the same situation. Chicot county is in the Greenville, MS DMA and they aren't eligible for LR locals via DirecTV. The local cable company provides both sets of locals. Same for my in-laws in Ashley county except they are in the El Dorado/Monroe, LA DMA. I've suggested that they both "move" a few miles to Drew county so they can get LR locals.

Last I read, there should be a new provision to put satellite and cable on the same set of rules when it comes to locals. And yes, with a signal strength in the high 70's, you should be able to get LR stations. You may have some rain fade but it shouldn't be bad.

-Robert
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post #634 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Arkie
... I get the Springfield channels fine with an antenna, and would really like to get the Little Rock news to get an Arkansas perspective on things....
I get a signal strength in the high 70's on transponder 25...

Arkie,
Check your PM...
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post #635 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by phitz
Who's the moron that put kets on ch 5? The problems you are having with reception may well be due to co-channel interference with WMC and KFSM in memphis and ft. smith. You will probably have a long wait for PBS-HD...

The morons are at AETN. They originally were assigned UHF channels, but in the case of every Arkansas transmitter but one, they went to local LPTV stations and begged for a channel swap to get VHF channels, so they could xmit at lower power. In the LR area, they did a channel swap with a LPTV translator in Sheridan, which traded them channel 5 for channel 47 - the KETS-DT original channel assignment.

Result: KETS-DT went digital on the cheap, and most people in LR can't get KETS-DT, at least not reliably enough to abandon analog.

You are correct about the interference from Ft Smith & MEM in the mornings & evenings. And late afternoons, when tropo & E-Skip aren't mucking with the signal, there's lowband VHF "impulse noise" interference. I think AETN was dragged kicking & screaming into the world of digital TV and they're only there "on paper" to satisfy the FCC, not their viewers.
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post #636 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Xesdeeni
Keep in mind, UHF-only antennas may be a short-lived solution. When the analog shutdown occurs, stations can opt to move their digital broadcast back to their orignal analog signal on VHF...

Yes, many stations that have VHF analog / UHF digital slots will move digital over to the coveted VHF channel assignment, when analog goes dark. Stations that currently have temporary low power digital transmitters that can't be upgraded to xmit full power without significant hardware expense (KARK & KATV in LR) are almost 100% certain to go back to VHF.

No big deal though. Down the road, you can always add a dedicated VHF antenna to the same mast the UHF is on, and combine them with a V/U combiner or V/U preamp.

Or, you may need a new antenna by then anyway, if yours is outdoors. They do corrode over time....
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post #637 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 07:50 AM
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I've only been watching the digital broadcast of KLRT for about a week now and must say that the widescreen upconvert looks great. The Jury almost looks like film HD (and is a good show by the way). I can't wait to see the HD feed when it comes online.

Is there a list anywhere of FOX shows that will be in HD this fall. Also, how many football games to the plan to broadcast in HD. CBS HD football is kind of hit or miss (some are, some aren't).
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post #638 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Although Allen at KLRT does a damned good job of upconverting 480 to 1080i, FOX-HD 720p should be a big improvement over the current fox-ws, especially on HD-cam stuff like SPORTS.

You might check the Programming Forum Threads for upcoming FOX-HD shows.
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post #639 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 08:26 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Tusk

Is there a list anywhere of FOX shows that will be in HD this fall. Also, how many football games to the plan to broadcast in HD. CBS HD football is kind of hit or miss (some are, some aren't).


The best place I have found to keep up with HD programing is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...?s=&forumid=34

/ Dennis
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post #640 of 12518 Old 06-30-2004, 12:46 PM
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What's the current purpose of 7-2? I don't have ABC up and running yet, but the program guides are identical. Why would they broadcast one channel at 720p and another at 480i? That doesn't seem to make any sense at all.
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post #641 of 12518 Old 07-01-2004, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Harris setup KATV's DTV equipment to broadcast 720p on 7-1 and 480i on 7-2. The folks at that station are probably clueless as to how to shutoff 7-2. So I doubt you'll see them attempt to shut it off and allocate all the bandwidth to 7-1 HD programming. From the poor quality of it, it almost looks as if it's their analog OTA broadcast being received by an antenna somewhere, then digitized and re-broadcast on 7-2.

About the only useful purpose for 7-2 in 480i right now is for people who want to stretch non-hd programs but can't, due to the limits of some tuners & TVs that can't stretch a 4:3 pillarboxed 720p signal to fill the screen.

I've heard KATV has long term plans to put a 24/7 "KATV news" loop on 7-2. So don't look for it to go away
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post #642 of 12518 Old 07-01-2004, 02:17 PM
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dlott or arxaw,

What's KETS currently look like? Is it worth adding a VHF antenna? What are they broadcasting on the 4 subchannels?
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post #643 of 12518 Old 07-01-2004, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Tusk,
Due to their low transmission power (~1kW ERP), KETS-DT ch 5 suffers from impulse noise interference in the heat of the day. Mornings & nights it possibly gets co-channel interference from WMC-5 in Memphis and KFSM-5 in Ft Smith. All of this causes frequent interruptions in audio and video. IMO, lowband VHF should be abandonded for digital TV broadcasting.

KETS-DT simulcasts four 480i subchannels of PBS programming.
2-1 is the same as analog channel 2.
2-2 thru 2-4 are various & sundry PBS programs, with 2-3 & 2-4 usually being childrens' programs like Sesame St. , etc.

When interference isn't plaguing the broadcast, the overcompression of 4 subchannels is, causing a pixelated mess during high action scenes.

IMO, KETS-DT is not worth adding a VHF antenna to receive them.

Reception is futile.....
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post #644 of 12518 Old 07-02-2004, 07:33 AM
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Thanks for the info. Sorry I'm asking so many questions, but digital OTA is a whole new world to me right now and I'm pretty excited about everything.

I should be getting my CM7777 in today and will be installing a tripod mount for my CM4221 this weekend. I'll let everyone know what my signals look like. I expect 100's since I was getting around 90 on KASN, KATV, and KARK over 80 feet of coax without a pre-amp. I've been reading and figure I'm losing about 5-6db of signal over the length of the run. (It's ironic that I can see KARK's tower from my house and I get the same signal as KASN and KATV who are 35 miles away.)

On a side note, when I was concerned about the reception from the 4221 the other day, I bought the silver sensor just to try out. I was able to get KASN at about 65 and KATV at about 45 (which will lock on at that strength by the way). Of course the antenna has to be in two different places to get these channels and an entirely different place for KLRT and KARK. Impressive little antenna though.
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post #645 of 12518 Old 07-05-2004, 07:57 AM
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Well, the best laid plans....

I spent most of Sunday afternoon and part of Monday morning messing with this @#$% antenna. Currently, my best result with the 4221 in one position is:

KTHV 69
KLRT 89
KASN 85
KATV 83
KARK 15 (and not steady)

I have tried it with and without the amp. My best signals above are without the amp.

I am at a total loss at this point. I was getting the following with rabbit ears and a loop.

KTHV 88
KLRT 92
KARK 80

My only thought is to get an A/B switch since I can get 90 on KASN and 88 on KATV with the 4221. Either that or add a VHF antenna for KTHV.

Arxaw, you said before that you were getting 100 on all stations except KARK on which you were getting 93. What's the secret?

Help.
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post #646 of 12518 Old 07-05-2004, 03:28 PM
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Tusk,

Depending on your location picking up all the LR digital stations can be a bit of a challenge. You almost have to live in west LR and have a bit of luck on your side because of the fact that most are broadcasting directional from different locations and at extremely low power. You may find that you cannot get all the stations leaving the antenna pointed in one direction. You may have to use a rotator . I use a CM Model 9521. I like it since it uses a remote control. It is also easy to code into a universal remote.

I have found that the HD Tivo gets slightly lower readings on signal strength than other HD receivers. That is nothing to be concerned about. I would be much more concerned if the signal was marginal or not steady. A signal that is not steady makes it almost impossible for the receiver to lock on.

Good luck

/ Dennis
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post #647 of 12518 Old 07-06-2004, 12:26 PM
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Dennis,

What kind of signal strengths do you get with the HD Tivo and your 4221?

Thanks.
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post #648 of 12518 Old 07-07-2004, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tusk
Dennis,

What kind of signal strengths do you get with the HD Tivo and your 4221?

Thanks.

Tusk,

Here is what I just recorded:

KTHV-DT 90
KLRT-DT 90
KASN-DT 92
KATV-DT 95
KARK-DT 91
KETS-DT 65
VTN-DT 61

/ Dennis
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post #649 of 12518 Old 07-08-2004, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tusk
...Currently, my best result with the 4221 in one position is:

KTHV 69
KLRT 89
KASN 85
KATV 83
KARK 15 (and not steady)

I have tried it with and without the amp. My best signals above are without the amp.

Arxaw, you said before that you were getting 100 on all stations except KARK on which you were getting 93. What's the secret?

If you're using the CM7777 preamp, you should be getting higher signal strengths than without it. It sounds like it's connected wrong or defective.

Regardless, just like dlott said, if your signal strength is steady, the numbers for all the above (except KARK, of course) are perfectly good, and may be "max" for your tuner - some of them never show "100%" on the meter.

You may not be able to get KARK-DT without moving the antenna. Their transmitter is very low power and they have the shortest antenna of all the digital locals. You're not missing anything if you can't pick them up because they're only SDTV 480i.

Even with a VHF antenna + preamp, you may not be able to get KETS-DT at all, but they're not HDTV yet, either, so it's not worth the trouble.
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post #650 of 12518 Old 07-08-2004, 09:17 PM
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It may be of interest that I am getting KLRT and KASN digital OTA here NW of Harrison tonight.

KLRT with a signal in the 60's, and KASN with a signal in the mid 80's....

Must be the weather I guess?
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post #651 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 08:46 AM
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Yep, it is ducting season. All sorts of fun stuff can happen during a ducting event. How stable was KLRT & KASN's signal?

Allen

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post #652 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 09:30 AM
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They were very stable, especially KASN. I watched KASN for over an hour and it was still on when I went to bed. KLRT was on as well.

They were gone this morning, but I was picking up digitals from Cape Gir..... (I can't spell it) over in SE Missouri. Over 200 miles from my house.....

I can always get a signal from KTHV-DT, however only occasionally is it srong enough so that I can watch it. KTHV analog, however, is usually watchable all the time.

I can always get KFSM-DT, KAFT-DT, and KHOG-DT from Fayetteville, even though we are not in their DMA.
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post #653 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Arkie
... I can always get a signal from KTHV-DT, however only occasionally is it srong enough so that I can watch it.

That should change when they eventually up their power to 100%.

What's your elevation?
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post #654 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 10:09 AM
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arxaw, my elevation here is approx. 1,400 feet.
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post #655 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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No wonder you get such good reception
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post #656 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 11:43 AM
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KLRT-DT going to 720P.


I will be changing KLRT-DT from 1080i to 720p next week. This is in preparation for the FOX HD equipment upgrades. We will still be upconverting the FOX wide-screen feed as we have been doing to 1080i for the next few weeks until the HD gear is installed. Unfortunately, I still do not have a firm time-line for the HD installation. We lost our slot in installation schedule because of some equipment damaged in shipment. Someone along the way managed to put a forklift fork through a crate! I have been speaking with FOX's subcontractor and we are in hopes they will be installing the gear in the next few weeks. I will be on vacation from July 17th through the end of the month, but this will not slow down the installation should it get scheduled while I'm gone.

Allen

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post #657 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 12:11 PM
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Must be nice to take a vacation in a ratings period Allan!

KTHV-DT is at 100% for few days. Probably won't make much difference in Harrison, that is a little beyond our coverage area. But when your elevation is 1400 feet anything is possible!

Alison Fletcher
Director of Technology
Today's THV
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post #658 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 08:33 PM
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RE: KLRT 720p

Fantastic news! The FOX upgrades for KLRT-DT are scheduled for next wednesday. We received the news late today. Stay tuned...

Allen
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post #659 of 12518 Old 07-09-2004, 08:42 PM
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Alison- Nice to see you posting here.

Folks- Please welcome Alison here. She and I share many of the same views concerning HDTV and have spent time discussing the technology and business aspects. I consider her and her station to be my stations only serious competition here in the market when it comes to DTV.

Allen
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post #660 of 12518 Old 07-12-2004, 07:27 AM
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Was there a problem with KTHV-DT 11-1 last night (Sunday, July 11)? I could get 11-2, and the other networks, but 11-1 kept giving me a searching for antenna error.

Also, is there a benefit to removing the screen on a 4221. It seems that KTHV, KLRT and KARK are coming in from the side of the antenna, and I was wondering if removing the screen would effect my signals any.
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