Albany, NY - HDTV - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 5022 Old 01-20-2004, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Re: State of the Union

I thought that WRGB-DT actually had more detail, but WNYT-DT's chroma was a tad hotter. I preferred NBC's graphic treatment to CBS'.


Re: WMHT's channel mapping changes

I too noticed the change, I had to perform a new channel search to get rid of the 17-4. DirecTV's data stream incorrectly provides 17-1 program information as the digital sub-channel for kids on TWC .
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post #452 of 5022 Old 01-20-2004, 07:09 PM
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Anybody try to watch American Idol the past two nights on 1808 TWC?
Back to the squeezed-narrower than 4:3 format; totally unwatchable. Any idea what the deal is? They had their act together for the NFL games last weekend.
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post #453 of 5022 Old 01-20-2004, 07:36 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ThePrisoner
I noticed WNYT being a little clearer also. How was your WRGB-DT signal this afternoon? Mine wasn't great but it got better around 7pm. Navy CIS was good but I had some pixelation and audio being out-of sync.

WRGB-DT signal has been better since Sunday.

I just turned it on tonight so I couldn't tell you about the signal this afternoon.

John
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post #454 of 5022 Old 01-21-2004, 06:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MasterFX1
As far as OTA being Free... it is. I don't understand why you chose to buy a TV without a tuner.

This is answered in the AVS FORUM HDTV FAQ posted here.

If I buy an HDTV-ready set today, will it be obsolete tomorrow?

That depends on whether you buy an "all-in-one" integrated DTV set, where the tuner is part of the set. There's a remote possibility that the modulation standards for broadcasting 8VSB DTV over cable systems may still change. And, of course, cable TV system operators such as Time Warner use the QAM standard for DTV.

The DTV picture transmission formats (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) are NOT likely to change, however. The smartest thing to do would be to buy a separate TV and set-top DTV tuner. This way, the most you'd have to do in the future is to switch to a new set-top box, and not replace your entire DTV set.

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post #455 of 5022 Old 01-21-2004, 07:06 PM
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[i]The smartest thing to do would be to buy a separate TV and set-top DTV tuner. This way, the most you'd have to do in the future is to switch to a new set-top box, and not replace your entire DTV set. [/b]

My Zenith has a built in tuner as well as inputs for an external set-top box. That's also true for the Sony and Mistsubishi integrated sets. Is there an integrated set without an external input? That would cover you in the unlikely event of a format change.

Some displays have a single HD input which limits you to only one set top box. (cable or OTA) An external DVI or Y,Pr,Pb switch box is almost as expensive as a tuner and more combersome than an integrated set. Only a few surround sound systems have HD source selectors.

Beginning in mid 2004 the FCC required built in tuner phase-in kicks in.
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post #456 of 5022 Old 01-21-2004, 07:18 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
This is answered in the AVS FORUM HDTV FAQ posted here.

If I buy an HDTV-ready set today, will it be obsolete tomorrow?

That depends on whether you buy an "all-in-one" integrated DTV set, where the tuner is part of the set. There's a remote possibility that the modulation standards for broadcasting 8VSB DTV over cable systems may still change. And, of course, cable TV system operators such as Time Warner use the QAM standard for DTV.

The DTV picture transmission formats (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) are NOT likely to change, however. The smartest thing to do would be to buy a separate TV and set-top DTV tuner. This way, the most you'd have to do in the future is to switch to a new set-top box, and not replace your entire DTV set.

Very True!

John
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post #457 of 5022 Old 01-21-2004, 07:43 PM
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I don't think I would lose too much sleep on the fact that your integrated television may become obsolete in the future..

If the broadcasting standard was going to change its not going to happen soon and its not going to happen overnight..

When and If the time comes, your integrated television would be outdated and plasma/lcd technology will be affordable and mainstream.. We'll all have beautiful flat panel displays and you'll want to throw the big bulky integrated tv set in the kids bedroom or give it away to charity!

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post #458 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 03:26 AM
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My next HDTV will have an integrated tuner along with DVI, hopefully by than they will have a multi-input DVI TV. Can anyone here that uses DVI see a difference? I have heard that a DVD player with DVI out is sweet but never heard anyone mention watching HD with DVI.

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post #459 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 03:49 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ThePrisoner
My next HDTV will have an integrated tuner along with DVI, hopefully by than they will have a multi-input DVI TV. Can anyone here that uses DVI see a difference? I have heard that a DVD player with DVI out is sweet but never heard anyone mention watching HD with DVI.

I have a Monster Cable DVI cord running from TWC's 3250HD box to my HDTV. Without being able to compare the the DVI vs. Y,Pr,Pb side-by-side, I can't see a noticeable improvement.

However, what the DVI connection does do is free up one of my two Y,Pr,Pb HD inputs so I can connect my DVD player and the OTA STB.

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post #460 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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AlbanyHDTV: Why does the crawl on your homepage exclude WNYT in you call for people to e-mail their frustrations?
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post #461 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 06:52 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MasterFX1
AlbanyHDTV: Why does the crawl on your homepage exclude WNYT in you call for people to e-mail their frustrations?

Maybe because WRGB will be showing (in HD) the most watched TV show of the year called the Super Bowl in about a week and a half.

It may or may not be a big deal to some people....but I think WRGB made it a big deal with their "How to get the Super in HD" commercials....trying their best at damage control.

But I agree with you... might as well throw WNYT (and WHMT) in there also.

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post #462 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 01:55 PM
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I'm curious if WRGB's advertisers were made aware that their paid for ads were not available to TWC HD viewers but are on the other local stations (with a couple of exceptions) if they might prefer to put their advertising $$$ somewhere else? Just a thought.
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post #463 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 03:47 PM
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Time Warner Cable responded to the recent commercials on WRGB with the following statement posted on their website:

HDTV: Status with WRGB
To our HDTV Customers:

Recently you may have seen that WRGB is suggesting that our HDTV customers purchase hundreds of dollars worth of antenna and other equipment in order to get WRGB's HDTV signal. Such a suggestion is odd, especially because the overwhelming majority of WRGB viewers watch the station on Time Warner Cable.

Please know in the case of WRGB there is an agreement in place that would allow the station to deliver its HD signal to us. That agreement was negotiated by Time Warner Cable and CBS for use by all CBS affiliates in the country. In fact, operating with the understanding that WRGB would be delivering us its signal under this agreement, we dedicated a channel (1806) some time ago for the purpose of receiving its signal.

Despite that, WRGB has refused to provide us with its signal. In addition to suggesting that you pay for extra equipment, WRGB is now demanding that we compensate them for this over-the-air signal. Such demands are unreasonable and negatively impact our customers. We currently carry the HD signals of other local broadcasters such as WTEN and WXXA and will soon be carrying WMHT. In taking the tact that it has, WRGB is simply diverting attention away from the fact that it is solely responsible for its HD signal not being on our system and for the apparent and unfortunate likelihood that it will not be on the system for this year's Super Bowl.

We regret WRGB's decision and share your frustration. We appreciate your loyalty and support.


This text can be seen on the Albany Time Warner website here.

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post #464 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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The bottom line is TWC is attempting to get something for free that they will then use as a carrot to get subscribers to upgrade to the more costly TWC-Digital and the forthcoming HD Tier. It would take less than a half year to recoup the costs of a tuner with the money you'll save not paying TWC each month. Strangely, no one really seems to care that WNYT-DT is more or less in the same boat, despite having the Daytona500 in HD, it's not the Superbowl, but it is the 2nd most popular televised-live event of the year.

If WRGB offered to buy you a OTA-HD receiver and antenna, would you be willing to commit to a 2 year - $14/Mo rental fee? OK, forget WRGB, I'll make the offer... If you sign with me, MasterFX1, at $14 a month for atleast two years, I'll buy you a tuner and antenna. And every month you stay subscribed with me beyond the first 24 months will be pure profit for me.

Also, OTA is as uncompressed and native as you can get. TWC only adds links to the chain, and non-1080i material is automatically upconverted.
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post #465 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 06:06 PM
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So you want to watch the big game on CBS in HDTV but its only going to be broadcast OTA and not by the local cable company, well your not alone

Other markets in the same situation... (as of Dec 2003)

Alberquerque,NM
Amarillo,TX
Dallas,TX
Bakersfield,CA
Boise,ID
Baton Rouge,LA
Birmingham,AL
Cedar Rapids,IA
Dayton,OH
Fort Worth,TX
Madison,WI
Miami,FLA
Portland,OR
Providence,RI
Reno,NV
Roanoke,VA
Sacremento,CA
Salt Lake City,UT
Santa Monica,CA
Savanah,GA
Seattle,WA
St Louis,MO
Topeka,KS
Tulsa,OK

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post #466 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow. Impressive list.
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post #467 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 06:47 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MasterFX1
AlbanyHDTV: Why does the crawl on your homepage exclude WNYT in you call for people to e-mail their frustrations?

Quote:


Originally posted by lufters
I agree with you... might as well throw WNYT (and WHMT) in there also.

As per both your comments, I have added WNYT and WMHT to the scroll. I was happy to see in the TWC statement that they will be adding WMHT shortly to the HD channels.

I put the crawl up on my website because I thought WRGB's "Superbowl in HDTV for FREE" commercial was ridiculus. Most people have 12:00 flashing on their VCR's and can't record an outgoing message on their answering machine without help, but WRGB suggests you "only" have to hook up a STB and an antenna to your HDTV ready TV to get WRGB (and the Superbowl) in HD. They didn't mention the $400+/- cost of the additional equipment to get their HD feed for "free". That's asking a lot from people for something that can easily be delivered to them through their existing subscription to TWC.

As an interesting side note, I received a negative email from WRGB's Fred Lass this afternoon. I won't discuss it's contents because he asked that I not post it publicly on the internet.

However, what it does prove is that the local television station operators/managers are lurking in this forum and on my website. They are reading our comments and probably discussing it with their co-workers.

Keep the information coming. I know I appreciate it.

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post #468 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 06:47 PM
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MasterFX1, Tower Guy:

Antennaweb.org recommends that I use a medium directional antenna for my area. Everything is red coded. Lowes has a Channel Master 3020 for $100. Would this work in my half attic (large crawl-spaces) of my house? Would this put my indoor antenna (RCA 1250) to shame? How about a Radio Shack antenna? Thanks

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post #469 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 07:14 PM
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However, what it does prove is that the local television station operators/managers are lurking in this forum

Hi Fred,

I could give a hoot about the Superbowl in HDTV, however, could you allocate the most bandwidth possible for the Final Four NCAA Mens B-Ball Tourney in April, that would be great!

Thanks for listening,
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post #470 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 07:46 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MasterFX1
The bottom line is TWC is attempting to get something for free that they will then use as a carrot to get subscribers to upgrade to the more costly TWC-Digital and the forthcoming HD Tier. It would take less than a half year to recoup the costs of a tuner with the money you'll save not paying TWC each month. Strangely, no one really seems to care that WNYT-DT is more or less in the same boat, despite having the Daytona500 in HD, it's not the Superbowl, but it is the 2nd most popular televised-live event of the year.

If WRGB offered to buy you a OTA-HD receiver and antenna, would you be willing to commit to a 2 year - $14/Mo rental fee? OK, forget WRGB, I'll make the offer... If you sign with me, MasterFX1, at $14 a month for atleast two years, I'll buy you a tuner and antenna. And every month you stay subscribed with me beyond the first 24 months will be pure profit for me.

Also, OTA is as uncompressed and native as you can get. TWC only adds links to the chain, and non-1080i material is automatically upconverted.

That makes sense...I'm going to pay $14 a month for at least 2 years for maybe 2 stations, when eventually they'll be on TWC sooner than later anyway. (FCC involvement?)

"OTA is as uncompressed and native as you can get"...that makes sense too.....I wonder what WRGB's real bandwidth is on 6-1 (HD channel) since they split their signal into 2 channels (looks like it will be 3 channels eventually). Most of the HD NFL games I've watched on WRGB-DT this season looked like crap because of the lack of full bandwidth given to 6-1. By this, they're basically saying we don't care too much about our HD viewers. They'd rather send out a half-As#ed HD signal so they can maybe make a little bit more revenue.Pleeeasse.
If they'd allocate more bandwidth during sporting events, I think everyone would be much happier.

Anyway you look at it, it's WRGB's fault for holding out..their Damage Control Commercials just don't cut it.trying to fool the misinformed poor HDTV owners out there into spending hundreds of dollars on a STB and an Antenna to get the Super Bowl in HD...when most of them already have cablePLEEASSSE!

John
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post #471 of 5022 Old 01-22-2004, 08:39 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
As per both your comments, I have added WNYT and WMHT to the scroll. I was happy to see in the TWC statement that they will be adding WMHT shortly to the HD channels.

I put the crawl up on my website because I thought WRGB's "Superbowl in HDTV for FREE" commercial was ridiculus. Most people have 12:00 flashing on their VCR's and can't record an outgoing message on their answering machine without help, but WRGB suggests you "only" have to hook up a STB and an antenna to your HDTV ready TV to get WRGB (and the Superbowl) in HD. They didn't mention the $400+/- cost of the additional equipment to get their HD feed for "free". That's asking a lot from people for something that can easily be delivered to them through their existing subscription to TWC.

As an interesting side note, I received a negative email from WRGB's Fred Lass this afternoon. I won't discuss it's contents because he asked that I not post it publicly on the internet.

However, what it does prove is that the local television station operators/managers are lurking in this forum and on my website. They are reading our comments and probably discussing it with their co-workers.

Keep the information coming. I know I appreciate it.

They've been reading this thread for quite a while now. We might have been hearing from some of those "managers/engineers/co-workers" right here on this board....Hmmmm.....I wonder.

So to all of the TWC and WRGB people....get your Heads out of your A@#es and get a contract signed. The SUPER BOWL is FEB 1ST.!! CHOP CHOP!!

John
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post #472 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by lufters
for maybe 2 stations

I wonder what WRGB's real bandwidth is on 6-1

trying to fool the misinformed poor HDTV owners out there into spending hundreds of dollars on a STB and an Antenna

Already 3, weeks away from 5 stations, the most popular ones in the country I believe. CBS, NBC, ABC, WB, PBS. More than 50% of all TV viewing is on these networks.

Whatever the bandwidth assigned to 6-1, it will only get worse adding more links to the chain (TWC).

TWC is trying to "Pull the Wool over people's eyes" and sucker you into a commitment of nearly a $1000 per year. My DirecTV/OTA setup gives me way more HD than TWC and costs way less. And the rumors are running rampant that this will be a breakout Summer for DirecTV and HD.
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post #473 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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6-1 has just made upgrades to their encoding process, compression related artifacts should be less apparent.

All the stations will continually upgrade and optimize over time. Costs keep coming down and technology keeps getting better. PQ will improve over the years on all DTV stations.

BTW, I see breakup even on full-bandwidth programming like WNYT-DT and HDnet, so there is no perfect encoding system yet. An HD infastructure can be upto 1.5GB of Bandwidth, yet the maximum bandwidth a station may broadcast is 19.4MB. Eventually compression technology will make the difference unnoticable to the human eye, but it will take time. Mark Cuban (Owner of HDnet) fought long and hard with DirecTV to guarantee that he would get 19+MB devoted to his channel. I still see breakup during fast sports plays and camera moves.
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post #474 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 07:02 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MasterFX1
Already 3, weeks away from 5 stations, the most popular ones in the country I believe. CBS, NBC, ABC, WB, PBS. More than 50% of all TV viewing is on these networks.

Whatever the bandwidth assigned to 6-1, it will only get worse adding more links to the chain (TWC).

TWC is trying to "Pull the Wool over people's eyes" and sucker you into a commitment of nearly a $1000 per year. My DirecTV/OTA setup gives me way more HD than TWC and costs way less. And the rumors are running rampant that this will be a breakout Summer for DirecTV and HD.

I agree with you....Like I stated on a previous post, I plan on going with DirecTV sometime this year.

John
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post #475 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 07:23 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MasterFX1
6-1 has just made upgrades to their encoding process, compression related artifacts should be less apparent.

All the stations will continually upgrade and optimize over time. Costs keep coming down and technology keeps getting better. PQ will improve over the years on all DTV stations.

BTW, I see breakup even on full-bandwidth programming like WNYT-DT and HDnet, so there is no perfect encoding system yet. An HD infastructure can be upto 1.5GB of Bandwidth, yet the maximum bandwidth a station may broadcast is 19.4MB. Eventually compression technology will make the difference unnoticable to the human eye, but it will take time. Mark Cuban (Owner of HDnet) fought long and hard with DirecTV to guarantee that he would get 19+MB devoted to his channel. I still see breakup during fast sports plays and camera moves.

Very true....I think I noticed the difference on last Sunday's AFC Championship game. I guess you have to take what you can get with new technology.


On another note, I would like to make it clear to everyone reading this board that my constant complaining to WRGB and TWC is not toward the hard working engineers, co-workers, etc of those company's. I've e-mailed and spoken with some who have been very friendly and courteous when answering questions pertaining to HDTV.

My complaining is toward the desision/policy makers only!

I'm just looking out for the best interests of "Us" HDTV users in our area.

John
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post #476 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 05:10 PM
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Just some random thoughts:

First, I do find it very frustrating that WRGB is being so resistant to TWC in regards to their HDTV. I guess I wouldn't be so upset if their stupid OTA would actually work. The "good" shows that are in the highest resolution (CSI, Cold Case) have had MAJOR pixelation issues to the point that they have been unwatchable the past few weeks. I will say that I've never had that problem with TWC. Not to mention the $250 for an HDTV Tuner, $50 for an indoor antenna (will have to spend about $100 for a good outdoor omnidirectional when it warms up).

In regards to DISH and DTV having "more" HD content that TWC, it's probably a wash, to tell you the truth. DISH wanted (don't know if they still do) $80 for an upgraded module for the DISH 6000 unit AND $12/month to get Discovery HD. I'm pretty sure they also charge extra for ESPN-HD and HDNET. (actually just checked and yes, it's $10/month to get ESPN-HD, HDNET, DHD and HDNET Movies) In theory, if TWC adds HDNET and HDNET Movies, they'll probably have about the same content. I do believe that DTV is now starting to charge extra for their HDTV content as well.

I'm also a bit peeved by WRGB and WNYT making it sound like it's totally TWC fault for not carrying their HD Signal. Of course, TWC not responding to the "price" issue about HDTV channels is disappointing too.

I will admit I totally fell off my chair tonight when I see a TWC TV commercial stating how they revitalize HDTV's. What? Yeah right. To tell you the truth, the ONLY thing that revitalizes them is VOOM! (but extremely pricey). You have to admit that like 40 channels of HDTV is the most you'll find right now. I hardly call 5 HDTV channels "revitalizing" HDTV. Even if I sub to DISH or DTV I'm going to get maybe 10 channels AND I will have to pay extra for them (although apparently we will be paying extra to TWC soon as well).

Maybe a customer backlash will fix things, but I highly doubt it. Everyone knows that if you go out and spent $2000-3000 for an HDTV unit you probably can and will pay extra for the HDTV content. Not that I like doing that mind you.

Of course I originally got my setup for DVD's mainly because I'm sick and tired of going to the movie theater, spending $10/ticket and having someone either blab on their cell phone or bring a baby/infant/toddler into the movie so they can talk or cry throughout the show.
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post #477 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by ThePrisoner
Antennaweb.org recommends that I use a medium directional antenna for my area. Everything is red coded. Lowes has a Channel Master 3020 for $100. Would this work in my half attic (large crawl-spaces) of my house? Would this put my indoor antenna (RCA 1250) to shame? How about a Radio Shack antenna? Thanks

I am not personally familiar with antenna brands and models. That being said, an outdoor antenna is your safest and best bet. It would certainly put all your other options to shame. If Lowes has a no questions return policy and your OK with bringing it back, give it a try.
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post #478 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 07:27 PM
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Prisoner,

I bit the bullet and ordered a Channel Master 5646 UHF/VHF/FM from StarkElectronic.com It costs $30 + $15 ups from Worcester and arrived 24 hours after I ordered it. I installed it in my attic today with a 75 Ohm coax down to the basement. I live 14 miles from from the tower and now (at least tonight ) am getting perfect reception of WRGB, WNYT and WMHT on my Samsung. I was having lots of problems with my RS powered antenna and the Zenith Silver Sensor. Those are going back.

Thanks to all who have helped....

Paul

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post #479 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 07:31 PM
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MasterFX1

I picked up a Radio Shack outdoor antenna cat# 15-2152. I put in my attic space, when it gets warm I will put it outdoors. It seems to be working way better than my indoor powered antenna. Is there such a thing as perfect OTA HD without some signal breakup (pixelation breakups, sound drop outs)?

Paul,

I see a difference with mine also. WRGB is rock solid now. I got very little breakup with WMHT, it corrected itself very quick. I live 10.5 miles from the towers according to antennaweb.org. This past week was hell for me, nothing was solid at all. I don't watch alot of WNYT. My RCA 1250 is going back tomorrow.

"The powerful will be ripped from their decadent nests. And cast out into the cold world that we know and endure. Courts will be convened. Spoils will be enjoyed!"

 

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post #480 of 5022 Old 01-23-2004, 07:54 PM
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Seems like we got some people making HD hardware purchases to improve their viewing pleasures..

My turn..

I was in Sears today and scored a Samsung TXN 3071 (30 inch direct view widescreen) for $699.00, thats $300 dollars off regular price!

Anyway, it was returned from another customer that wasn't happy with it.. its not perfect (yet), but I am currently working on that..

Visit me at petedz.com
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