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post #181 of 5012 Old 12-04-2003, 06:34 PM
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Hi Lufters,

I watched the Miami/Dallas game and I can add that the broadcast looked just as good as any other NFL game broadcast by CBS in HDTV.. I've only watched HDTV football on CBS and can't make a comparison to MNF.. But I thought the HD shots looked really good since the game was being played indoors/nightime compared to some of the daytime HDTV games played in the bright sunlight..

As for the pixelation, different cameras yield different results.. seems the stationary cameras are the HD ones and the ones on the sidelines and at ground level are some sorta enhanced standard definition? (the ones that do interviews with coaches/players are HD)

Anyway I think that CBS does a much better job with the college football games and we will get a good sampling of that this Saturday night..

Heres a link to some good and bad screenshots I took of the Miami/Dallas game here...

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post #182 of 5012 Old 12-04-2003, 07:30 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BreakStuff
Hi Lufters,

I watched the Miami/Dallas game and I can add that the broadcast looked just as good as any other NFL game broadcast by CBS in HDTV.. I've only watched HDTV football on CBS and can't make a comparison to MNF.. But I thought the HD shots looked really good since the game was being played indoors/nightime compared to some of the daytime HDTV games played in the bright sunlight..

As for the pixelation, different cameras yield different results.. seems the stationary cameras are the HD ones and the ones on the sidelines and at ground level are some sorta enhanced standard definition? (the ones that do interviews with coaches/players are HD)

Anyway I think that CBS does a much better job with the college football games and we will get a good sampling of that this Saturday night..

Heres a link to some good and bad screenshots I took of the Miami/Dallas game here...

I can tell you it had absolutely nothing to do with the cameras. After watching every MNF game this year in HD you can easily tell what are the HD cameras and which ones are the Standard. The only standard cameras on MNF are the shots from the blimp and the moving camera that hangs on the cable in the middle of the field.

Thanksgiving was my first CBS HD NFL game I've seen (straight 1080i compared to ABC's 720P upconverted to 1080i). They don't have as many HD cameras as ABC does.

The pixilation was seen only with the HD camera shots during fast motion....more noticeable with the closer shots with it.

My Uncle was over and this was his first HD games he's seen and he noticed it......saying he thought it was to much information and not enough bandwidth....he did notice the non HD shots right away also.

Here's the thread I'm talking about....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=329348

John
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post #183 of 5012 Old 12-06-2003, 05:49 PM
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Does anybody see anything on WRGB 6-3?

I been playing with my Zenith HDV420 STB and all I get on 6-3 is a blank screen.. 6-3 on MyHD card is the same transmission as 6-1.. weird huh?

MasterFX1-

Do you think all this snow will stall progress of all the other affliates planning to go digital this month?

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post #184 of 5012 Old 12-06-2003, 06:16 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BreakStuff
Does anybody see anything on WRGB 6-3?

I been playing with my Zenith HDV420 STB and all I get on 6-3 is a blank screen.. 6-3 on MyHD card is the same transmission as 6-1.. weird huh?

MasterFX1-

Do you think all this snow will stall progress of all the other affliates planning to go digital this month?

From Masterfx1 on the 12-04-03 02:16 PM post

6-3 was a live feed of the "Instant Doppler 6" radar imagery, but was turned off to improve the picture quality of 6-1 and 6-2. If improvements can be reached, it may come back.

John
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post #185 of 5012 Old 12-06-2003, 06:53 PM
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But the funny thing is that I see the digital transmission on 6-3 (WRGB-S2)
I just don't see it on my STB..

Too bad we cant view the CBS NCAA football games in HDTV today, I'm sure the snowfall has something to do with this...

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post #186 of 5012 Old 12-07-2003, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by BreakStuff
Do you think all this snow will stall progress of all the other affliates planning to go digital this month?

Not really. It may stall one of the affiliates for an hour or two as they clear a path from their vehicles to the transmitter building. It is my understanding that all outside work (except for carrying equipment inside the building) is done.
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post #187 of 5012 Old 12-07-2003, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by BreakStuff
Too bad we cant view the CBS NCAA football games in HDTV today, I'm sure the snowfall has something to do with this...

Viewers from other markets watched the SEC football championship game on 12/6 in HD. I don't think snow had anything to do with our market being deprived. I do think this was simply a case of a local Master Control Operator "Asleep at the Wheel." This is the single most common nationwide reason a show supposed to be in HD isn't.

When this happens to a show you want to watch you may consider the following:

1. Call that station's newsroom phone (listed in phone book)
2. Ask for Master Control
3. If they say "Why?" or "No," tell them that you thought the show on their air right now was supposed to be in High Definition and wanted to ask the Master Control Operator if that was true.
4. If you get the Master Control Operator just ask him the same question.

9 times out of 10, this will get the dude to "Flip the switch." However, once I called WNYT's newsroom phone to inquire about a West Wing episode they dropped the ball on, and the newsroom person wrongly told me I wouldn't see anything because they were not HD yet. So results will vary from person to person... especially on nights and weekends.

I urge you to e-mail your disappointment when this happens to either the GM and/or Chief Engineer of the "Ball-Dropping" station. The more they realize people are expecting their HD, the more scrutinizing managers will be of their operators, the less often mistakes like this will continue.
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post #188 of 5012 Old 12-07-2003, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by BreakStuff
I been playing with my Zenith HDV420 STB and all I get on 6-3 is a blank screen.. 6-3 on MyHD card is the same transmission as 6-1.. weird huh?

This is weird, I don't know why that is. Perhaps a lurking Chief Engineer can enlighten us?

And yes... they are lurking, ummm, monitoring I mean.
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post #189 of 5012 Old 12-07-2003, 02:51 PM
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This is the email I sent Peter Taubkin (VP at our local TWC, thanks to masterfx1 for the addy):

"As a long time Time Warner subscriber, including your Road Runner service; I'm dismayed by the missing high def feeds of those local channels transmitting in high def. Of course, I speak of WNYT and WRGB. WRGB is especially galling since a naive visitor to your web site would think it was available with programming instead of a "coming soon" card.

I can understand the need to work through a fair contract with the stations, but their high def capability has been coming for some time. I would have thought contract negotiations would have ended long ago.



My upgrade to your digital tier of service was entirely based on the impending high definition channels. I'm very disappointed that I'm still waiting for service from you that I can get over the air with a simple attenna.



Mr. Taubkin, please do what you can to speed up the process so that we, your subscribers, can receive the best the technology offers. After all, the Super Bowl is less than two months away.



Thank you,"
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post #190 of 5012 Old 12-08-2003, 05:32 PM
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The confusion on 6-3 in some set top boxes and computer decoder cards is due to the fact that there is 6-3 Program Specific Idnetifier Packet (PSIP), but no audio or video packet ID's assigned for that stream. There is not enough bandwidth for a 6-3 at this time, but if the 6-3 PSIP were omitted, users would not find 6-3 when it becomes available unless they were to send the set-top box into the search mode.
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post #191 of 5012 Old 12-08-2003, 06:11 PM
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thanks Tower Guy,

I have another question that I cannot figure out..

Are the local OTA HDTV stations actually broadcasting in Dolby Digital 5.1?

Whenever I listen to a 5.1 broadcast, I can only hear 2 channel stereo and I get nothing from the rear speaker when using the proper optical or PCM digital audio cables..

Only way to get 5.1 audio is to hook it up with analog cables and decode through my pc's sound card..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=335429

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post #192 of 5012 Old 12-08-2003, 06:48 PM
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Are the local OTA HDTV stations actually broadcasting in Dolby Digital 5.1?

CBS currently produces football in 5.1 surround sound. Most other programs are stereo. I'm not aware of any rear channel problem during football. The game this Sunday, 12/14, is Buffalo vs. Tennessee. It should be in HD and 5.1 surround sound. WRGB automatically passes whatever audio format CBS originates.
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post #193 of 5012 Old 12-08-2003, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
CBS currently produces football in 5.1 surround sound. Most other programs are stereo.

Thats it!

I receive OTA CBS football in Dolby Digital 5.1, but only get stereo with all other OTA primetime programming..

I was assuming that if the television show was broadcast digitally I would then automatically receive 5.1 audio, My decoder card reports the signal as Dolby 5.1 but this is clearly inaccurate..

This info might help others in the future who have this similiar problem..

I did a little more searching and came up with this list of television shows that broadcast in DD 5.1..

http://www.dolby.com/ht/pa.in.dtv5.1list.html

Thanks again Tower Guy and welcome to the thread.

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post #194 of 5012 Old 12-09-2003, 07:52 PM
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So if I understand this correctly, I can pick up "HD" UPN, but it's really SD? I noticed that UPN only has like 2 shows (all I really care about is Enterprise), but that it's not HD at all? 480p, 720? (1080i, I can probably understand, since very few shows are broadcast at that anyway right now)

And, I was able to adjust my RS antenna and pick up everything EXCEPT WTEN (for some strange reason). Although I can watch that on Cable.

Now I'm getting ready to write a nastygram to TWC about their ridiculous policies regarding retransmission.

--Kevin


Quote:
Originally posted by MasterFX1
Remember: WRGB-DT has a finite amount of bandwidth and must carefully delegate it.

6-2 is an all-digital simulcast of the UPN affiliate from Pittsfield, MA (Channel 51). UPN does do HD on Wed and Fri prime, however, they are not available in this market. WRGB is doing WNYA a favor by transmitting their signal as a digital sub-channel, they would have to turn off the CBS in 1080i to provide the UPN in 1080i, and since WRGB is a CBS affiliate and not a UPN affiliate, this is rather unlikely.

6-3 was a live feed of the "Instant Doppler 6" radar imagery, but was turned off to improve the picture quality of 6-1 and 6-2. If improvements can be reached, it may come back.

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post #195 of 5012 Old 12-10-2003, 10:26 AM
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I live in Delmar and the signal meter on my Mitsubishi HD box says I am receiving the WRGB signal at at max of 65%. My Sony Sat200 receives a signal of about 33%. These levels are about the same as I was receiving before the transmitter was moved. Both boxes get WNYT-DT at 100%.

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post #196 of 5012 Old 12-10-2003, 11:14 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jnic002
I live in Delmar and the signal meter on my Mitsubishi HD box says I am receiving the WRGB signal at at max of 65%. My Sony Sat200 receives a signal of about 33%. These levels are about the same as I was receiving before the transmitter was moved. Both boxes get WNYT-DT at 100%.

The difference between WNYT and WRGB is WNYT is actually on channel 12 with a low gain antenna and WRGB is on channel 39 with a high gain antenna. The temporary WRGB antenna had lower gain, was not mounted very high, and at a lower part of the Helderbergs. The stronger signal from the new WRGB antenna may not be hitting Delmar because Delmar is below the main beam. Once a digital signal is strong enough to make a perfect picture, there is no advantage to a stronger signal.
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post #197 of 5012 Old 12-10-2003, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by jnic002
I live in Delmar and the signal meter on my Mitsubishi HD box says I am receiving the WRGB signal at at max of 65%. My Sony Sat200 receives a signal of about 33%. These levels are about the same as I was receiving before the transmitter was moved. Both boxes get WNYT-DT at 100%.

Yes, WRGB-DT is really now in High Power, I could not receive them on either of my boxes before the move.

Keep in mind that WNYT-DT is broadcasting in the VHF band, while WRGB-DT is broadcasting in the UHF band. Signals of equal power from the same location will have varying coverage depending upon what channel they are broadcasting on.

You may consider experimenting with different antennas.
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post #198 of 5012 Old 12-11-2003, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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NFL on WRGB-DT update:

Unfortunately CBS has decided to move its HD crew for this Sunday (12/14) to the New England game. WRGB-DT is still planning to show the Buffalo game (Upconverted), so no HD NFL this weekend on WRGB-DT.

The following Saturday (12/20) WRGB-DT will have the Kansas City Chiefs @ Minnesota Vikings in HD.

Sunday's (12/21) HD coverage has yet to be determined.
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post #199 of 5012 Old 12-12-2003, 07:13 PM
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Quote:


WRGB-DT is still planning to show the Buffalo game (Upconverted),

What is meant by the term "upconverted" here??

I understand when a signal might be 720p and upconverted to 1080i, But I think you mean something I don't quite understand..

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post #200 of 5012 Old 12-12-2003, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I simply meant that the analog broadcast will be displayed on 6-1, upconverted to 1080i (as is all non-HD material on 6-1.)
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post #201 of 5012 Old 12-12-2003, 08:59 PM
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Ok, I think I got it now...

Its broadcast in 480i, but its "upconverted" to 1080i to "fit" the digital display format...whereas HDTV would broadcast at 1080i (or 720p) and be shown in the originating 1080i display resolution?..

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post #202 of 5012 Old 12-13-2003, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, when it is originated in 480i it is upconverted to 1080i.
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post #203 of 5012 Old 12-15-2003, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Superbowl Update:

CBS will broadcast live coverage of Super Bowl XXXVIII in high definition, the network has confirmed.

Locally, the High Definition broadcast will be carried Over-The-Air on WRGB-DT.

The game, to broadcast on February 1, will be surrounded by a wealth of pre-game and post-game programmes on the network. This will be the fifteenth Super Bowl to be broadcast by CBS.
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post #204 of 5012 Old 12-16-2003, 01:35 PM
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I've tried two different indoor antennas (Zenith ZHDTV1 and RCA ANT1250) to receive the OTA HD channels from my home in Guilderland. In both cases, WNYT-DT comes booming in at high signal strength but WRGB-DT is nowhere to be found. Am I out of luck or can anybody recommend a strategy? I'm trying to avoid a roof antenna...
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post #205 of 5012 Old 12-16-2003, 05:44 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RWSimon
I've tried two different indoor antennas (Zenith ZHDTV1 and RCA ANT1250) to receive the OTA HD channels from my home in Guilderland. In both cases, WNYT-DT comes booming in at high signal strength but WRGB-DT is nowhere to be found. Am I out of luck or can anybody recommend a strategy? I'm trying to avoid a roof antenna...

I have three suggestions;
1. Try tuning in WEWB on analog channel 45 for the best picture, then try again for WRGB.
2. Move your antenna to a spot near a window that faces the Helderbergs and try #1 again.
3. You may consider placing your indoor antenna in the attic, and use the channel 45 aiming method again.
If none of these work, your exact location may suggest another strategy.
Good Luck
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post #206 of 5012 Old 12-16-2003, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Tower Guy
I have three suggestions;
1. Try tuning in WEWB on analog channel 45 for the best picture, then try again for WRGB.

Is this method good for people in all locations or just the Guilderland area?
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post #207 of 5012 Old 12-16-2003, 06:53 PM
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MasterFX, if you look at http://www.antennaweb.org/ you'll see that the WEWB analog and WRGB-DT are almost in the same compass direction (using my Voorheesville zip code anyway)
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post #208 of 5012 Old 12-17-2003, 08:26 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MasterFX1
Is this method good for people in all locations or just the Guilderland area?

The aiming method will work for most locations, but the results will differ slightly. The WEWB analog signal is directional toward the Northeast and the WRGB DTV signal is omnidirectional. The two towers are about 600' apart. The WRGB DTV antenna is 400' higher. WEWB's analog transmitter will relocate to the new tower soon. At that point, the suggested aiming method will work the same for everyone.
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post #209 of 5012 Old 12-17-2003, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for clarifying, this is a great way to set up your antenna for digital without having to sit through an auto-scan after each adjustment.
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post #210 of 5012 Old 12-17-2003, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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NFL in HD on WRGB-DT update:

The following games will be originated and broadcast in 1080i and Dolby Digital 5.1 on WRGB-DT.

SAT, DEC. 20 KANSAS CITY @ MINNESOTA

SUN, DEC. 21 MIAMI @ BUFFALO

SAT, DEC. 27 BUFFALO @ NEW ENGLAND

SUN, DEC. 28 DENVER @ GREEN BAY

and of course, the Superbowl on Feb. 1.

Check local listings for times. More games in HD on WRGB-DT to be announced. CBS reserves the right to change their programming decisions without notice.
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