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post #91 of 3757 Old 12-09-2004, 02:00 PM
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If they have an STA listed, chances are they are using it. WIVT recently applied for it 1/8/04 and they're good for 6 mos. That said, the only way to really know for sure is to ask someone at the station. In general though, stations aren't in a hurry to increase their costs until they have to or they feel they have the viewers to justify it. You can click on "application info" to see the specific station's recent applications filed at the FCC.

I'd look at your analog reception. If you have alot of ghosting then multipath is likely your problem (very common with obstruction of line of sight). This may require a different antenna, but first I'd play around with the location of the 3016 and also try adjusting the tilt (upward usually).

If that fails, you'll have to go with a larger, more directional antenna, increase the height, or both.

Stacking would work if you were dealing with uhf only, but stacking is problematic at vhf frequencies because of the large spacing required. Here's an example of stacked uhf yagi/corner reflectors:
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post #92 of 3757 Old 12-09-2004, 05:31 PM
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Now that's getting a bit ugly. The antenna that is.

Thanks again for the info. I think I'll just live with what I have and hope that DirecTV can get its act together and get Fox-HD up on the satellite.

I have waivers for the four major networks and therefore CBS-HD and NBC-HD. And ABC is in HD here with WIVT-DT (the one that is working great).
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post #93 of 3757 Old 12-14-2004, 09:45 AM
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Update. I've raised the 3016 another 5 feet with no appreciable difference. I've rotated it so I receive the following signal test values as measured by the Hughes HTL-HD. Digital ch 4 (ABC analog 34) = 78, Ch 7 (CBS - 12) = 59, Ch 8 (Fox - 40) = 24, and ch 42 (PBS - 46) = 16. I have rotated the antenna so that ch 8 locks in, but then I lose ch 7. These two are only 3 degrees apart, so is this antenna that directional? The Radio Shack 15-1108 amplifier has been removed. See above post for that story.

The Channel Master website shows the 3016 as being medium directional, suburban rated, 30-45 mile reception. The average gain for low VHF is 1.2 dB and it is ch4 that comes in the strongest. High VHF and UHF gains are 7.9 and 7.7 respectively. So I'm wondering if this antenna is overloading my HD receiver? I suspect this may be a possibility because ch 42 will come in strong if I rotate the antenna way away from the tower direction. I'm probably getting a side lobe of the antenna. I haven't found my variable attenuator to see what happens with that.

Attached is a photo of my temporary installation on my deck. You'll see my neighbor's tree, now deleaved, and the hill in the background.

I have also wondered about the Winegard Sensar II Amplified Antenna (GS-2000A) as something that might work. But, I will probably have more of a multipath problem with that.

Suggestions?
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post #94 of 3757 Old 12-15-2004, 02:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jdspencer
Now that's getting a bit ugly. The antenna that is.


Well JD,one of those "ugly" arrays would likely cure your reception problems.I read back through some of your posts here and elsewhere,and there's one statement you made that sticks out like a sore thumb on 4-16-04:

"What's interesting is that the analog channels(34,12,40 and 46) are unwatchable."

At 8-9 miles I assume these are not snowy,but full of ghosts,herringbone,whatever.If that's the case,you have moderate to extreme multipath,and maybe even some strong FM signals thrown in for good measure.

A 5 or 10 element highband antenna strategically placed somewhere on your property should pick up 7,8 and 4(strong).For UHF maybe a couple of those cheap end-mounted Yagis from RS horizontally stacked(easy to do).If you're lucky,everything will work at one spot,on one mast.You may need a rotor also.Actually,you are going to have to experiment quite a bit to solve your reception ills.The signals are there,you just have to "find" them,then combine them and send them to your receiver.

The antenna you have is fine for flat terrain,but not in your environment.OTOH,there may be a "sweet spot" somewhere on your property that it will work,for every channel.Good luck.
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post #95 of 3757 Old 12-15-2004, 06:07 AM
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Thanks for the input. I'll play around with this when the weather breaks. A reply in another forum suggested tilting the antenna a bit to aim over the hill. This isn't a high priority right now since I'm only interested in the ABC affilate. If and when the others finally broadcast HD I'll get more interested. Hopefully, DirecTV will get Fox-HD up soon. And, then after getting everything working, the stations will be changing their channel assignment when the analogs go dark.

I discovered a splitter behind the equipment that was being used to feed the FM input on the AV receiver. I removed that and I am not getting strong signals on Chs 4, 7 and 8. There are still audio and video dropouts, but this is probably still due to multipath interference. Now to get a bow tie for ch 42 and combine it.
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post #96 of 3757 Old 12-15-2004, 12:18 PM
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I'd try an FM trap in the same place where you took the splitter out. Winegard makes a good one, see http://www.tselectronic.com/antenna/...f14ea0c168dc0b

If still no go, it's multipath.
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post #97 of 3757 Old 12-15-2004, 01:50 PM
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That FM trap looks like it is mounted on the mast. I'm sure it will work inside, but will it have the same effectiveness?
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post #98 of 3757 Old 12-25-2004, 08:49 PM
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Hi all,

I'm glad to see other folks in the greater Binghamton area here. I just got my HDTV hardware (pcHDTV 3000 card) and I am only able to get three channels (CBS, FOX, UPN) consistently at 75-80% signal. I cannot get any signal whatsoever from PBS or ABC.

I'm located < 4 miles from the broadcast towers (according to antennaweb.org) but the unfortunate thing is that I'm living in an apartment complex which means that I'm stuck with using indoor antennas. To make matters worse, my apartment faces north and the towers are up the hill (or over the hill) on the south side.

I'm presently using unamplified VHF/UHF antenna (Terk HDTVi) purchased for $40 from Circuit City in Vestal. I should probably try other indoor antennas -- any suggestions?

I'm also sorely disappointed by the lack of HD programming in the area. And it appears that the two channels that are broadcasting in HD (ABC and PBS) are the ones that I cannot get!

JT
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post #99 of 3757 Old 12-26-2004, 05:57 AM
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Hi JT,
I'm in Chenango Bridge and have been able to get all of our stations, but not at the same time. Crocker Hill is between me and the towers. Right now I get all but PBS. There have been reception problems reportedly due to too strong of a signal. And since you are only 4 miles from the towers, this could be part of your problem. PBS is broadcasting on ch42 and with that hill could also be part of your problem. My ABC is the strongest channel here. And then I still get audio breakups now and then. This is a result of multipath, the digital equivalent to ghosting. Speaking of that, how are the analog channels looking? Come this spring I may do more testing. Currently I have a Channel Master 3016 medium direction antenna which is rated for 30/45 miles. I'm 9 miles from towers. I did have an amplifier on it, but I get better results without it. You might try an attenuator in that antenna of yours. If you have a simple splitter hanging around, connect that to see what happens. Does the apartment complex have a common antenna on the roof? If so, maybe you could connect to it. If not, see if the managers would allow you to install one.

The total lack of HD by our locals is amazing. So much for the Greater Binghamton Area. I have DirecTV and get CBS, NBC, and Fox HD from them. The new SHVERA rules may prevent you from getting the waivers to receive those from DirecTV. And with your north facing apartment, it would be difficult for you to get DirecTV. I have the Hughes HTL-HD receiver. Time Warner Cable's HD offering is not good enough in my opinion.
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post #100 of 3757 Old 12-26-2004, 08:41 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply.

Any simple splitter will attenuate the strong signal? I'm currently out of town but I will be returning in a few days. I will also be returning the Terk indoor antenna (which I hear is no better than a coat hanger) and maybe get a bow-tie indoor antenna from Radio Shack or simple VHF dipoles with a UHF ring antenna from Walmart.

I'm not sure what the analog channels are like but I will try it when I get back. I have standard cable service from TWC so I never really bothered with the analog OTA TV. Speaking of TWC, do you know whether or not their HD cable is QAM encrypted? My pcHDTV is suppose to have QAM support (some day) which means that I should be able to pick up HD over cable as long as it's not encrypted. I agree with you that TWC offering is meager. A friend of mine was looking for a new TV set but decided against an HDTV set because of the cost was not worth the lack of HDTV content in the area. I guess it's a chicken-egg issue.

I will be moving out in about 6 months probably to the City of Binghamton. (It's not because of the DTV situation!) I guess one of my criteria in the hunt for a new apartment will be south side facing windows.

BTW, what is this "waiver" to which you are refering? Also, any reason why all the DTV channels are VHF (except for PBS)?

JT
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post #101 of 3757 Old 12-27-2004, 09:34 AM
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I have no idea if TWC has their HD encrypted. I haven't had TWC for several years now. And, then it was only their lifeline 2-13 version.

When you read other threads here on this forum you read a lot about the Silver Sensor indoor antenna, which is UHF only. Many here forget that not all HD stations are using UHF. The majority seem to, but here in Bingo town only PBS is using UHF for their digital signal. And when the full switchover occurs, who knows what channel assignments our stations will be using?

The waivers I speak of is to allow DirecTV to provide me with what is called DNS, Distant Network Stations. I was allowed waivers because where I live I can't get a decent analog channel. I had to complain to WBNG to get them to allow the waiver. So now I purchase from DirecTV the main four network stations, which are from NYC and LA. Now when HD came along I automatically get those HD stations as well. Only ABC is lacking at the moment. But, since our ABC is in HD I don't worry about it.

Yesterday, I got all of our stations digitally. Today ch 12 (digital 7) and 46 (digital 42) are not coming in. I'll worry about that next spring.
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post #102 of 3757 Old 12-27-2004, 10:05 PM
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Hi jdspencer,

Digital Channel 7 (DT-7) was also out for me today. Normally I get DT-7 with no problems.

I tried using a splitter to attenuate the signal in hopes of finding the missing PBS and ABC channels. It did not help. After playing around with 3 other indoor UHF/VHF combo antennas, I was able to find two spots in my apartment with the ABC (DT-4) and PBS (DT-42) signal. My pcHDTV card reports 68% signal strength for DT-42 which is fairly good and 54% for DT-4 which is still watchable (visual and auditory artifacts every 5 seconds or so with very little stutter). The problem is that if I move my antenna to one of those two positions, I lose all other channels. If only I can find one spot in the apartment where I can get all the channels... Monday Night Football in HDTV is awesome.

JT
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post #103 of 3757 Old 12-29-2004, 09:15 AM
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It is kind of weird that we are now fussing with antennas again isn't it? Takes me back to the 50's and trying to get ch 12 when it first started. We actually got our best signal then by pointing the antenna at the hill behind us. The primary ghost was stronger than the direct signal.

Good luck for now and when you move make sure you have a good line of sight to the towers.
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post #104 of 3757 Old 12-29-2004, 06:57 PM
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I'm using a Philips ring + dipole indoor amplified antenna and I found a spot where I can get 4 (60%), 7 (70%), and 8 (60%). It's watchable with the occasional sound quirks and visual artifacts on channel 4. I tried the Silver Surfer (I know it's UHF-only but figured since I'm so close...) and it's able to pick up 7, 8, and 42 at around 50% which is unwatchable.

I guess 3 out of 4 channels isn't bad.

jdspencer, have you tried tuning to the HD stations outside of Binghamton such as those in Syracuse and Elmira?
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post #105 of 3757 Old 12-30-2004, 04:29 PM
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I tried last fall with a huge VHF/UHF antenna from Radio Shack, but didn't get anything. But, then I didn't have the antenna very high.

Currently, it seems that my HD receiver isn't remapping the Fox 40 correctly. Same thing happened last summer. I actually receive 8-2 (Fox) and 8-3 (UPN), these should be remapped to 40-1 and 40-2, which are both the same right now. Not a big deal and eventually it should get fixed. I email Fox asking if they are having a problem with PSIP. No reply yet.

Without touching anything, I now can get 12-1, which does come and go. And occasionally 46-1 will pop in.
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post #106 of 3757 Old 12-30-2004, 05:45 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jdspencer
I tried last fall with a huge VHF/UHF antenna from Radio Shack, but didn't get anything. But, then I didn't have the antenna very high.

Currently, it seems that my HD receiver isn't remapping the Fox 40 correctly. Same thing happened last summer. I actually receive 8-2 (Fox) and 8-3 (UPN), these should be remapped to 40-1 and 40-2, which are both the same right now. Not a big deal and eventually it should get fixed. I email Fox asking if they are having a problem with PSIP. No reply yet.

Without touching anything, I now can get 12-1, which does come and go. And occasionally 46-1 will pop in.

All digital stations have to change the way PSIP is set up by Saturday, so many are scrambling to do so. I think it has something to do with reserving the x.2, not just the .0 and .1, for other purposes, and making the first video signal (which maps to x-1) x.3. It's causing all kinds of problems on WRIC-DT in Richmond, VA, and in many other places it's leading to less fatal problems like the one you describe.

Let me simplify. When you tune to channel 40-1, the PSIP tells the tuner to display the Fox signal, which appeared on the 8.2 part of the bitstream. The 8.0 and 8.1 are reserved for other things, though I can't remember what exactly. Now, PSIP requires that 8.2 also be reserved. This means that Fox gets moved to 8.3 (but still maps to 40-1) and UPN to 8.4 (40-2).

Just be patient with them.

- Trip

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post #107 of 3757 Old 12-31-2004, 12:34 PM
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Interesting. Thanks for that info.
I guess I'll see what happens tomorrow.
It's not a big deal, as long as the chennel appears somewhere.

Just checked out your RabbitEars site. It looks promising. Keep up the good work.

BTW, my market is 154 Binghamton NY.
The broadcasting stations here are WBNG (12, 7), WIVT (34, 4), WICZ(40, 8), WBPN-LP(40 subchannel), and WSKG (46, 42). That LP station is shown with an ERP of .004kW.
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post #108 of 3757 Old 12-31-2004, 02:28 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jdspencer
Interesting. Thanks for that info.
I guess I'll see what happens tomorrow.
It's not a big deal, as long as the chennel appears somewhere.

Just checked out your RabbitEars site. It looks promising. Keep up the good work.

BTW, my market is 154 Binghamton NY.
The broadcasting stations here are WBNG (12, 7), WIVT (34, 4), WICZ(40, 8), WBPN-LP(40 subchannel), and WSKG (46, 42). That LP station is shown with an ERP of .004kW.

Thanks! To be honest, I haven't worked on it in about a month.

Could you be more specific with your list? Which ones are in HD? What are the subchannels and remapping of each?

Since Binghamton is a small market and you were one of the only people to visit my old Bitstream forum idea, I might could do Binghamton for you this weekend if you can get me that info.

Thanks!

- Trip

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post #109 of 3757 Old 12-31-2004, 06:23 PM
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Okay,
WBNG digital ch 7 mapped to 12-1 CBS affiliate Not HD
WICZ digital ch 8 mapped to 40-1 Fox affiliate Not HD
WBPN digital ch 8 mapped to 40-2 UPN affiliate subchannel Not HD Analog ch 10
WIVT digital ch 4 mapped to 34-1 ABC affiliate HD
WSKG digital ch 42 mapped to 46-1 PBS affiliate National PBS HD
WSKG digital ch 42 mapped to 46-2 local PBS programming
They are also showing 46-2, 46-3, & 46-4 but no programming.

As you can see we have no broadcast NBC HD affiliate. We do have an LP NBC station. WBGH analog channel 20.
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post #110 of 3757 Old 01-02-2005, 03:07 PM
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http://www.rabbitears.info/listing.php?id=bng

Enjoy!

(And I went ahead and made 40-1 720p, since I'm hearing through the grapevine that Fox has set a deadline for its affiliates with digital assignments to begin HD broadcasts--and I'm told that deadline is 'in time for the Super Bowl')

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post #111 of 3757 Old 01-03-2005, 09:52 AM
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Hey that's great. I'm glad I could help with your very large effort.

Locally, I haven't heard from WICZ about their HD efforts.

Luckily for me, I get Fox-HD from DirecTV.

Another thing weird about our locals, is that WBNG (CBS) does provide HD to our local cable company. I guess that's easier than to broadcast an HD signal.
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post #112 of 3757 Old 01-23-2005, 10:36 AM
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It's nice that there is at least one TV station employee that visit these forums.

I've been having real trouble getting good signal lately. I'm wondering if it's because of all the snow piling up on trees.
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post #113 of 3757 Old 01-23-2005, 07:07 PM
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I have trouble on occasions with all of them. Dropouts happen often. PBS isn't coming in well for me. I need to do some antenna adjustments. But, not until spring. I'm in Chenango Bridge and Crocker Hill is between me and the towers. I'm guessing that multipath is my main problem and with snow on the trees it could be yours as well.
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post #114 of 3757 Old 02-22-2005, 01:47 AM
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jd,
I have time warner cable and they do not provide a HD feed from WBNG on channel 700. The programing on that channel is an NBCHD feed from Elmira.
I emailed WBNG recently about their apparent lack of a timetable to convert to HDTV and got no response.

Lou
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post #115 of 3757 Old 02-22-2005, 04:42 AM
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Well, no surprise there.

Could you verify if this list of HD channels on TWC is correct?

700 WBGH HD
703 WIVT HD
704 WSKG
705 Discovery HD Theatre
706 TNT HD
710 HBO HD
711 Showtime HD
715 INHD
716 INHD2
717 HD Net
718 HDNET Movies
719 ESPN-HD
750 WBNG Digital

This list was extracted from their website.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Custo...ashx?CLUID=337

So 700 isn't really WBNG HD, but NBC from Elmira. And 750 is just the SD digital feed. I guess I'm not going to TWC for HD any time soon. The only ones on that list that I don't get with DirecTV are INHD and INHD2.

This is really sad. As an aside, WBNG was the first TV station in our area (then WNBF).
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post #116 of 3757 Old 02-23-2005, 03:17 AM
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jd,

Yes, that list is correct. It is a joke for them to even put the WBNG digital feed in their lineup as the the picture quality looks worse than the analog channel (on my set anyhow). I am very tempted to go satellite with the waivers now in place as my main viewing interests are major sports. The only thing keeping me with TWC is the convenience of paying my security,internet access and cable bill in one shot.

Lou
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post #117 of 3757 Old 02-23-2005, 05:17 AM
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I would probably be with TWC for my internet service if I didn't have DSL. Which is bundled with my local and long distance phone service. TWC p...ed me off a few years ago when they didn't offer UPN for over a year. I needed my Enterprise Voyager fix. I had to rely on a co-worker who had Dish Net for that. Not to mention their yearly rate increases. Once I discovered that some of our locals were broadcasting a digital signal that I could receive, better than analog, I then dumped the basic TWC package. I have DirecTV Total Choice and Dish for Superstations. Bottom line, TWC doesn't offer anything that I need at the moment.
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post #118 of 3757 Old 02-23-2005, 06:53 AM
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I'm with TWC because of the Internet. I could get DSL but I would have to pay extra to get a landline as well. (My cell is my only phone.) Otherwise, I would be on satellite in a heartbeat. Speaking of price increases, I'm presently paying close to $50 for standard cable. It was about $41 2 years ago.
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post #119 of 3757 Old 03-01-2005, 08:32 AM
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I just bought a new HDTV and added Time-Warner's HDTV tier. I'm generally pleased with what they offer, but obviously not pleased with the local channels. I was just wondering if WBNG is in HD? It's not in Elmira, just the channel. But I was told it's in HD in Binghamton and CBS' Web site lists it as HD. Just wondering because I couldn't find an e-mail address on WBNG's site, which is not the best I've ever seen. Thanks for any help anyone may be able to give me.
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post #120 of 3757 Old 03-01-2005, 08:50 AM
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WBNG's OTA digital signal is not in HD. It is listed in TWC's Binghamton list, but it isn't in HD. Just the digital feed. Is TWC's Elmira lineup different.

Anyway, at the very bottom of WBNG's website, in small print there is a link for contacts. Here'e the link. http://www.wbng.com/home/contact.html

I think we need to contact CBS and tell them.
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