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post #271 of 10074 Old 10-17-2003, 06:32 PM
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Oooops!

Thanks Budget, I guess I should researched my antennea.web results a little further. Now the compass heading makes more sense.

* yellow KWPX-DT 32 PAX Bellevue WA Now Live 149°
* yellow KWDK-DT 42 DAY Tacoma WA Nov 1 2003 149°
* yellow KWOG-DT 50 IND Bellevue WA Now Live 149°
* green KCPQ-DT 18 FOX Tacoma WA Now Live 213°
* green KIRO-DT 39 CBS Seattle WA Now Live 192°
* green KHCV-DT 44 SAH Seattle WA Now Live 149°
* lt green KTBW-DT 14 TBN Tacoma WA Nov 1 2003 213°
* lt green KTWB-DT 25 WB Seattle WA Now Live 186°
* lt green KOMO-DT 38 ABC Seattle WA Now Live 191°
* lt green KCTS-DT 41 PBS Seattle WA Now Live 186°
* lt green KING-DT 48 NBC Seattle WA Now Live 191°
* blue KBCB-DT 19 IND Bellingham WA Under Review 309°
* blue KONG-DT 31 IND Everett WA Now Live 191°
* blue KVOS-DT 35 IND Bellingham WA Now Live 309°
* blue KSTW-DT 36 UPN Tacoma WA Now Live 186°
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post #272 of 10074 Old 10-17-2003, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PSound
Hello Larry,

I could DEFINITELY use your help. I currently have a rooftop antenna and cannot get a good HD signal. I usually get 1-2 minutes tops before it drops out and comes back in again. I am primarily interested in being able to get ABC (Monday Night Football). I live near the corner of NE 97th St and 27th Ave NE.

Am I just in a hopeless location?

On the contrary, your LOS looks quite good. Your problem may be due to something else (reflections, trees, etc.). I would investigate moving your antenna or trying a different one. In the city you want a highly directional antenna that ignores reflected signals. I live about a mile NE of you and using the CM4228 I get good signal from QA and CH towers. Because of the Wedgewood ridge I can't get anything from Tacoma. But there isn't anything I want from there anyway. What sort of signal level does your receiver show? Are all stations the same?

I've run out of witty sayings...
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post #273 of 10074 Old 10-17-2003, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by weebling1
quarque!!

where do you get your topography info??? it's fascinating

Can you tell us a distance from hill / height of hill = ratio
for signal reception ?

I have the DeLorme Topgraphic program which has contour maps for the entire US. Among its features is the ability to draw a straight line between two points and get a profile of the terrain covered by the line. When I plot someone's LOS I draw a line from their location to the QA towers (and sometimes CH towers as well). Then I pull up the profile plot and draw an imaginary line from where the tower signals emminate to the person's house. Any hills that obscure this path will affect the signal. It's not an exact science but most of the time I can predict the likelyhood of HD reception. Of couse, the tarot cards help too...
I started doing this because of a ham friend of mine and his interest in HF radio communication (LOS is critical). It's also fun to check out areas you might visit on vacation etc. Check out delorme.com for details.
And yes I can get distance and height for everything. A little geometry & trig come in handy, but mostly I use a ruler on the profile plot.

I've run out of witty sayings...
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post #274 of 10074 Old 10-17-2003, 09:44 PM
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Regarding power outputs, are there any other stations that are planning to increase their DT output? If so, what's the timeframe? I am getting KIRO and KING marginally but in the next 3 months with HD Tivo coming out, it's going to be more important to know if there is any hope on the horizon for my OTA reception. If they're going to be doubling or tripling their power, the picture could change dramatically.
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post #275 of 10074 Old 10-17-2003, 11:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by quarque
On the contrary, your LOS looks quite good. Your problem may be due to something else (reflections, trees, etc.). I would investigate moving your antenna or trying a different one. In the city you want a highly directional antenna that ignores reflected signals. I live about a mile NE of you and using the CM4228 I get good signal from QA and CH towers. Because of the Wedgewood ridge I can't get anything from Tacoma. But there isn't anything I want from there anyway. What sort of signal level does your receiver show? Are all stations the same?

For ABC (38), I get between 75 and 83. It is ultra-erratic (the signal strength never holds for more then a second before jumping up or down a few levels).

For UPN (36) I get low 90s, and high 90s for 31. The signal on both of these is also erratic.

I never really kept a good eye on these before. I wonder if my problem is more my receiver and less my antenna.

I am using a Sony SAT-HD100.....
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post #276 of 10074 Old 10-18-2003, 07:33 PM
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PSound - I can't speak about the Sony since I have only used a Samsung T150 but I would guess the more likely culprit is the antenna and multipath reflections. What is your antenna? Sometimes an attenuator will help with this problem since you seem to have plenty of signal strength. Also, do you have large trees in the way? I would try re-aiming or moving your antenna to several locations and if that does not help, try another antenna such as the CM4228. Also, tilt your antenna up about 10 degrees to aim at the point on the towers where the signal comes from.

I've run out of witty sayings...
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post #277 of 10074 Old 10-19-2003, 04:54 PM
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Please quarque,

I request that you consult the wizard "Delorme" to check my possible reception. I've got a Sony rpLCD, and a Samsung SIR-T165 on the way and am hunting for an antenna, probably the CM4228.

410 riverview lane, snohomish 98290

antennea will be 35' from ground.

would comparison to standard UHF reception be a good hint? I've got a lousy old VHF ant. at 20' aimed about 210° , that gets WB22 at maybe 65% quality, KTBW20 at 35% intermitant, KONG16 at 50%, and the Bellevue stations pretty well.
Valid or not at all?
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post #278 of 10074 Old 10-19-2003, 07:24 PM
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weebling1 - Your elevation is about 90 feet and there is a 530 foot hill in the way (east of Mill Creek). You will have no direct line-of-sight to CA or CH towers. However, there have been several cases where people got reception via reflected signals and did OK. You will have to play around quite a bit with the antenna aiming to find out. And, yes, analog UHF is a valid indicator. Usually when analog is good, digital is good. And when it is bad, digital is less likely. But many people hava had success even when their analog UHF was mediocre. This is mostly due to the fact that digital is a threshold system. Once you have enough signal your in. With analog it takes much more than that to get a decent picture. 210 degrees is the correct bearing for QA but as I said, that hill is blocking you direct LOS. Do you have a rotor? If not I would invest in one when your 4228 arrives.

I've run out of witty sayings...
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post #279 of 10074 Old 10-19-2003, 08:48 PM
 
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Thanks for the info.

I have ordered the SAT-HD300 to see if that helps (I wanted DVI and 720p anyway). If that does not solve the issue, I will try the recommendations you gave. Thanks!!
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post #280 of 10074 Old 10-19-2003, 08:49 PM
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Thank you quarque,

I have been considering a rotor. I'll post my success or failure when equipment arrives.
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post #281 of 10074 Old 10-22-2003, 12:14 PM
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Hey everyone

Long time since I've been back. I have question for you guys.
With this nasty rain and overcast I have had a great deal of picture break-up (freeze frame and it pick up many seconds later,repeated) on my sammy t-151. Is common to that cloud cover and rain will disturb a picture to the point it's unwatchable. Monday football was very bad or do I need to re-adjust something. Are you guys having the same problem? I live in the silver firs area. My DISH is almost unaffected..Thanks Guys
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post #282 of 10074 Old 10-22-2003, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big_Dawg
Hey everyone

Long time since I've been back. I have question for you guys.
With this nasty rain and overcast I have had a great deal of picture break-up (freeze frame and it pick up many seconds later,repeated) on my sammy t-151. Is common to that cloud cover and rain will disturb a picture to the point it's unwatchable. Monday football was very bad or do I need to re-adjust something. Are you guys having the same problem? I live in the silver firs area. My DISH is almost unaffected..Thanks Guys

Hmm... that's not good. Are you using a pre-amp?

I'm in the Silver Firs area, too, but I can't comment quite yet. I just acquired a CM4221 and 7775 from sdossick in Redmond last night. I don't have a STB yet, so I just plugged the antenna into the spare TV upstairs and was able to get all the UHF channels pretty well. KONG16 was by far the best, with CH22 pretty close. There is some minor multipathing going on, but hopefully that won't affect the digital signals negatively. I was doing this on the north side of my house, however, so signals were having to go through the entire structure.

The CM4221 does work pretty well for the higher band VHF channels, too. I was able to get KIRO7 and KVOS12 almost perfectly. Q13 was a mess, however, with a lot of multipath and snow.

-Lance
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post #283 of 10074 Old 10-22-2003, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big_Dawg
Hey everyone

Long time since I've been back. I have question for you guys.
With this nasty rain and overcast I have had a great deal of picture break-up (freeze frame and it pick up many seconds later,repeated) on my sammy t-151. Is common to that cloud cover and rain will disturb a picture to the point it's unwatchable. Monday football was very bad or do I need to re-adjust something. Are you guys having the same problem? I live in the silver firs area. My DISH is almost unaffected..Thanks Guys

How many bars are you showing for signal (high and low)? The preamp suggestion is a good one. I forgot which antenna you are using. I never have any problems due to weather, but then I'm only 6 miles from QA.

I've run out of witty sayings...
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post #284 of 10074 Old 10-23-2003, 06:10 AM
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I'm using the cm 4228 and no I'm not using any kink of amp. It was rock solid during the nice nights. Is the OTA signal affected by weather? I'm going to recheck the bars tonight
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post #285 of 10074 Old 10-23-2003, 09:11 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Big_Dawg
I'm using the cm 4228 and no I'm not using any kink of amp. It was rock solid during the nice nights. Is the OTA signal affected by weather? I'm going to recheck the bars tonight

Is your antenna outside? It was pretty windy the other night -- it might have been blowing that very directional antenna around enough to lose the signal intermittently. Just an idea...

-Lance
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post #286 of 10074 Old 10-23-2003, 09:55 AM
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Dawg:
I'm near Silver Firs (near 132nd St & 29th Ave) and have had no problems with ABC - even with the recent wind and rain. MNF was fine this past Monday. I'm using a CM 4248 and a rotor. For some strange reason (reflections?) ABC is the only station I really need the rotor for. When I aim the antenna the signal is rock solid. Bizarre since ABC transmits from the same location as CBS and NBC.
Tom
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post #287 of 10074 Old 10-23-2003, 11:37 AM
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Thanks Guys
Alot of good feedback. Lot's OTA guy's in my area. It is outside antenna. I plan on rechecking the Ant. tonight to make sure didn't twist from my setting. I'm going to recheck my strength to make sure i'm still getting 9 bars on my samy t-151. What is the best amp to use and what do they cost. Web link would be welcome...I keep you posted when i figure this out.....Thanks Dawg
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post #288 of 10074 Old 10-23-2003, 12:46 PM
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Does UPN go HD (programming) or am I seeing things? Go UPN go!
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post #289 of 10074 Old 10-23-2003, 12:48 PM
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Best Amp after some research is the Channel Master 7777 (or 7775 for only UHF).

If any one cares, I live on Bainbridge and recently went from a RCA DTC-100 to the new Sony HD300 and wow it made a huge difference in being able to pull down the OTA signals (not using any preamp at this point). I know get every single OTA feed whereas before I just got PBS, KING, CBS and a weak ABC and FOX. Heck, I didn't even know some of those other stations were broadcasting digitally (UPN?/KONG) but the maybe that is a good thing.
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post #290 of 10074 Old 10-23-2003, 05:55 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by tuquet
Does UPN go HD (programming) or am I seeing things? Go UPN go!

UPN is showing some stuff in HD now. Enterprise and Jake 2.0, maybe some others. Titan doesn't seem to know about it yet.

I've run out of witty sayings...
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post #291 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 07:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Big_Dawg
Thanks Guys
I keep you posted when i figure this out.....Thanks Dawg

Well guy's I did some system checks last night. I was getting a strong 9 bars on my sammy t151 and my antenna is locked on the correct setting still. Everything came in very good last night with no breaking up.
The only thing that I'm wondering is that across the street about 150 yards away behind the houses. There are some very tall thin silver fir trees, would these things blowing around in the wind cause a breakup in picture with the freeze frame thing. It is in a straight line with my ant setting and much higher than my ant. No wind no problem with them being there. If this is true would a amp. help? My thinking is with 9 bar reading I'm not going to get much better. Anybody for a late night chainsaw Party....DAWG with a chainsaw.
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post #292 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 07:20 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by quarque
If you care to post your nearest intersection I can plot your line-of-site to the QA towers in my topo program and see what might be in the way.
Larry

Nice Offer. Thank You. I'm a new guy to HDTV, but have had Big-Dish C/Ku Band for years. I currently have a small to medium 10 year old Radio Shack antenna for OTA. I'd be interested in my sight line and advice for a good source for Outdoor antennas, and what antennas have shown to be good for our area.

Thanks
Cliff

107 219th PL SE, 98021 Bothell.
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post #293 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 08:15 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by quarque
another successful 4228 installation - I think I will start buying CM stock. You are about the fifth person to try it recently and have great results with it - glad to hear about your success! Larry

What is a good local to the Seattle area source for these Antennas?

Thanks
Cliff
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post #294 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 12:07 PM
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Locally, Pringles Electronics in Everett carries CM antennas. Cheaper sources are on the web.

Dawg:
No a preamp would probably not help you. Your signal is strong enough, an amp is only going to magnify a weak signal or compensate for a long cable run.
Sounds like you have multi-path issues if your signal is bouncing when the wind blows. Make sure the antenna is mounted securely (mine recently needed to be tightend). I'd be willing to bet the trees are causing your problems. Having said that, I have huge trees squarely in my LOS too, but my antenna & signal somehow blast through them, even in the wind. I chose the 4248 for its ability to combat multi-path. I'm guessing that it's highly directional nature is ignoring a lot of the multipath reflections around me.
Tom
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post #295 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 02:44 PM
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Thanks for the Antenna advice.
Cliff
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post #296 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 04:12 PM
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I live near the Montlake cut and get all the hd local channels marginally with a ss but have to rotate it when switching between the QA and CH towers. With how close I am to the towers and the roughly 60 degree difference in aiming, do any of you have a recommendation for an antenna which will grab the signals without needing to be rotated? Thanks for your help.
Trevor
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post #297 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 05:45 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by cliffcor
Nice Offer. Thank You. I'm a new guy to HDTV, but have had Big-Dish C/Ku Band for years. I currently have a small to medium 10 year old Radio Shack antenna for OTA. I'd be interested in my sight line and advice for a good source for Outdoor antennas, and what antennas have shown to be good for our area.

Thanks
Cliff

107 219th PL SE, 98021 Bothell.

Cliff - your LOS is somewhat marginal. You have a 480 foot hill about 3/4 mile SW of you and your elevation is about 410 feet. The height of your antenna installation could greatly affect your success. Are you currently getting OTA digital and/or analog UHF very well?

Larry

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post #298 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 05:50 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by fatboy_2k
I live near the Montlake cut and get all the hd local channels marginally with a ss but have to rotate it when switching between the QA and CH towers. With how close I am to the towers and the roughly 60 degree difference in aiming, do any of you have a recommendation for an antenna which will grab the signals without needing to be rotated? Thanks for your help.
Trevor

Most people use either a rotor (not practical here) or 2 antennas and a combiner. Search the forum on combining antennas and you will find lots of good recommendations on methods and equipment. Your could try an omnidirectional antenna but there has not been much success with them in urban areas because they pick up multipath too easily. Since you are so close I would get another cheap antenna and combine them.

I've run out of witty sayings...
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post #299 of 10074 Old 10-24-2003, 05:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by quarque
Cliff - your LOS is somewhat marginal. You have a 480 foot hill about 3/4 mile SW of you and your elevation is about 410 feet. The height of your antenna installation could greatly affect your success. Are you currently getting OTA digital and/or analog UHF very well? Larry

UHF (16/22) is ok, not great but OK. I've not tuned the antenna much, so I'll do that. Thanks for the look. I'll find some play time on the roof.

Cliff
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post #300 of 10074 Old 10-25-2003, 01:51 PM
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I can pretty much get in all of the local HD channels I want. Except I can't seem to get PBS (41).

I can get
18 (fox)
25 (WB)
31 (IND)
36 (upn)
38 (abc)
39 (cbs)
48 (nbc)

Any ideas why I can't get PBS. Is the signal weaker than 36 (upn) at the same compass angle as 41 (pbs)?

I'm using MyHD on my PC and one VHF/UHF and one UHF only antane.

Thanks,
Mike
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