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post #9331 of 10088 Old 12-08-2011, 07:32 PM
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Hey There!

Very happy to see a forum like this.

I live in LYNNWOOD, WA. near the intersection of 196th and 64th ave w.

I own a Panasonic 1080p Plasma HDTV Model TH-42PZ85U.

What would be the best type of antenna to get for my TV and location?

THANK YOU!!!
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post #9332 of 10088 Old 12-09-2011, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyOlives View Post

Hey There!

Very happy to see a forum like this.

I live in LYNNWOOD, WA. near the intersection of 196th and 64th ave w.

I own a Panasonic 1080p Plasma HDTV Model TH-42PZ85U.

What would be the best type of antenna to get for my TV and location?

THANK YOU!!!

FuzzyOlives
Looks like you're in a pretty good spot. Key is whether you have any large trees or tall buildings to the south of you. If not, a Channelmaster 4228 or CM2020 would work well, a few feet above the roof.
Dan
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post #9333 of 10088 Old 12-09-2011, 10:42 AM
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Hi all,

I have been following this thread for a while. I put up a Channel Master 4220MHD about 2 years ago and until recently I had good reception on all the local channels. Just in the last month channel 9 started to get flaky and now it has dropped off all together.

I did some troubleshooting, disconnected the splitter and ran the coax directly into the main upstairs tv. I set it up to re-tune all channels and still no channel 9.

This is my tv fool analysis (not posted due to forum rules) I am in Broadview 130th & 10th NW.

When I originally installed it I had a little trouble getting 11 & 13 both at the same time. I managed to find a happy medium and now have reception on both.

i know that the 4220 is not a VHF antenna and I am wondering if I could mount a second antenna like a cm-2020 and connect the 2 together in the attic.

thanks
Bob
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post #9334 of 10088 Old 12-09-2011, 08:29 PM
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rschmelzme,

I wouldn't add a CM-2020 to your existing antenna system but it might be a good replacement antenna for you.

If you want to add a high-band VHF antenna to your current UHF antenna, I'd try an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 VHF Yagi, designed for channels 7-13. Be sure to use a UVSJ to combine them, not a 'standard' signal splitter.

Jim

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=716079000987

http://www.antennahacks.com/Hacks/MyY10-7-13V.htm
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post #9335 of 10088 Old 12-10-2011, 07:42 PM
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Thanks Jim,

I spent yesterday afternoon adjusting the antenna on the roof. Finally got a signal on channel 9. It is still weak and I may take your suggestion on the Y5-7-13 VHF Yagi as a second antenna for VHF channels.
Bob
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post #9336 of 10088 Old 12-18-2011, 01:18 PM
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i live in seatac, close to 32nd ave s and s 152nd st intersection (98188). Thinking about ditch comcast and just use ota.. checked antennaweb, and tried with a hand made antenna indoor, picked up about 15 channels.. but not getting all possible ones (9.1, 13.1 for example). wondering why? should I get a stronger antenna ? I live in an appartment, would prefer a indoor antenna , to avoid hassle of installing it in the roof of my apartment building (landlord might not allow it)..

does any expert have any suggestion? appreciate your input.


thanks a lot!

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post #9337 of 10088 Old 12-18-2011, 05:16 PM
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I am new to this forum...but I live in Bellevue WA now and I have an indoor antenna, Terk TV5 amplified.
Without the amplifier I don't get much but I have been ota since 06...but as I said, I am a new person
here. Seatac should bring you many stations...when I lived in vashon I got 32...

Which antenna did you make? There is the diy coat hanger and wood one that is nice.
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post #9338 of 10088 Old 12-19-2011, 10:31 AM
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I made myself a coat hanger antena, not sure if it is good enough..
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post #9339 of 10088 Old 12-19-2011, 01:38 PM
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To all:

For specific help, go to TV Fool and post the results or a link here.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #9340 of 10088 Old 12-20-2011, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_aia View Post

i live in seatac, close to 32nd ave s and s 152nd st intersection (98188). Thinking about ditch comcast and just use ota.. checked antennaweb, and tried with a hand made antenna indoor, picked up about 15 channels.. but not getting all possible ones (9.1, 13.1 for example). wondering why? should I get a stronger antenna ? I live in an appartment, would prefer a indoor antenna , to avoid hassle of installing it in the roof of my apartment building (landlord might not allow it)..

does any expert have any suggestion? appreciate your input.


thanks a lot!


sea_aia
Sounds like part of the problem is your antenna doesn't do well with VHF, which is where ch's 9-11-13 are. If you have a north facing window moving the antenna near it will help. Ch13 in HD comes from the west, and is a little behind the hill. It's hard to find a position in an apartment wher eyou can get a clean shot at both directions. Ch13 in SD is available on ch22-2.
Indoor reception in an apartment can be tough. There's really no one magic indoor antenna that works everywhere all the time. It's just a matter of playing with location and antenna. Again, if you can get near a north facing window it will help. Most indoor styles have two parts: a loop, for UHF, and two rabbit ears for VHF. Lay the rabbit ears down flat, and set them about 18" apart. RatShack makes a cheapy you can return if it doesn't work.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103077
Amplified one might not do well. If you try one, make sure it has an adjustable gain and try it at the lowest settings first.
Patience will win out. You may have to move the antenna for one channel and again for others.
Dan
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post #9341 of 10088 Old 12-23-2011, 07:29 PM
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Have any of you in the Seattle metro area used the Mohu Leaf indoor antenna?http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Thin-Lea...4697063&sr=8-1

With our hilly terrain, three VHF stations, and transmitters scattered in different directions, I wonder if the Mohu Leaf (which is claimed to deploy fairly innovative antenna design adapted from military applications) works decently in this area?
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post #9342 of 10088 Old 12-24-2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

Have any of you in the Seattle metro area used the Mohu Leaf indoor antenna?http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Thin-Lea...4697063&sr=8-1

With our hilly terrain, three VHF stations, and transmitters scattered in different directions, I wonder if the Mohu Leaf (which is claimed to deploy fairly innovative antenna design adapted from military applications) works decently in this area?

seatacboy

Are you still living east of the Airport near the Cambridge Apts?
(I have very fond memories of that place in my younger/crazy days!)

So, another new mousetrap. Like the idea of paper thin.
I get a giggle out of their reviews, "Crystal clear picture!".
duhhh.
Digital is crystal clear when reception works. There's no ghosting or snow like the old analog days.

If the design for this came from military applications, which is fine, I would be willing to bet that they're not telling you the other part of the story. The transmitting portion of that design (frequency, polarization, power, etc) is most likely different from what normal television here uses. This antenna might work wonders in a military function, but it comes down to simple physics here.
There are a variety of factors involved. The main thing is transmitters around here are using the FCC standards allowed. You need a certain amount signal to reach your antenna, in a "clean" fashion, for the tuner to lock on to. Unless the FCC comes up with some newer standard that compensates for all our terrain, what the stations are using now is it.
You need a fair amount of metal to pull the signal from the air.
Any antenna indoors is at a disadvantage.
If you use something less than a 1/4 wavelength, like any small version of an outdoor antenna, then it needs to make up for it with an amplifier, or be in a very strong reception area (Ballard, Capital Hill, Fremont, etc).
Then another problem comes into play, signals bouncing off everything inside.

As with any new style antenna, your mileage may vary. I've learned never to say never, but..... Having tried more than my fair share of antennas, in hundreds of installs, I admit to being skeptical.
If you try one, keep the receipt handy for return. If it does work wonders for you, let us know, along with the details of where you're located so we can figure out how it compares with others tried around there.

Last, to everyone, have a safe and Happy Holiday, and New Years, too!.

Dan
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post #9343 of 10088 Old 12-25-2011, 12:05 AM
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I'm skeptical of these new antenna designs as well. I got a "leaf-like" antenna when I ordered a handheld DTV and it was pretty much junk. But then again, inside the house all indoor antennas for me didnt work well.

When I got it outside, it worked a little better, so your mileage may vary.

But it's funny on Amazon's site it got very good reviews, 4/5 stars?!

I'm gonna guess those good reviews came from people who got good reception (signal in the air) at their location already... meaning pretty much any indoor type antenna would get their channels they expected...

.. but yeah, if someone orders one and tries it out, let us know how it goes...
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post #9344 of 10088 Old 12-26-2011, 02:21 PM
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Dan: actually I was looking at the Mohu Leaf for my retired parents. They reside in a condo adjacent to the Rainier Golf & Country Club (Des Moines Memorial Drive and S. 118th Street. Their location has a strong signal on several local channels, and have been using a Philips Silver Sensor indoors with reasonably good results. The problem is they experience periodic loss of signal from aircraft flights.

My parents absolutely dislike the idea of paying Comcast to receive their local channels. I wondered if the Mohu Leaf actually performs any better than the Silver Sensor (which I bought for my folks as it seemed like the best candidate for indoor reception at their address).

FYI, if they rotate their Silver Sensor the right direction, they can pull in KVOS-DT from their address. Alas, they don't like repositioning the antenna.

As for my location on south McMicken Heights, while I do have a few antennas and a converter box that I fiddle around with, I subscribe to Comcast to receive local stations.

I have had reasonable results with the Silver Sensor and with a CM 4221 placed indoors. The deal-breaker with OTA reception from my location is that when people walk around north of my condo, it creates signal break-up and pixillation. Until such time as I move - or find a "miracle" antenna , I'll reluctantly pay Comcast to obtain TV reception in my ground-floor condo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKurts View Post

seatacboy

Are you still living east of the Airport near the Cambridge Apts?
(I have very fond memories of that place in my younger/crazy days!)

So, another new mousetrap. Like the idea of paper thin. I get a giggle out of their reviews, "Crystal clear picture!". duhhh. Digital is crystal clear when reception works. There's no ghosting or snow like the old analog days.

If the design for this came from military applications, which is fine, I would be willing to bet that they're not telling you the other part of the story. The transmitting portion of that design (frequency, polarization, power, etc) is most likely different from what normal television here uses. This antenna might work wonders in a military function, but it comes down to simple physics here.

There are a variety of factors involved. The main thing is transmitters around here are using the FCC standards allowed. You need a certain amount signal to reach your antenna, in a "clean" fashion, for the tuner to lock on to. Unless the FCC comes up with some newer standard that compensates for all our terrain, what the stations are using now is it.

You need a fair amount of metal to pull the signal from the air.

Any antenna indoors is at a disadvantage.

If you use something less than a 1/4 wavelength, like any small version of an outdoor antenna, then it needs to make up for it with an amplifier, or be in a very strong reception area (Ballard, Capital Hill, Fremont, etc).

Then another problem comes into play, signals bouncing off everything inside.

As with any new style antenna, your mileage may vary. I've learned never to say never, but..... Having tried more than my fair share of antennas, in hundreds of installs, I admit to being skeptical.

If you try one, keep the receipt handy for return. If it does work wonders for you, let us know, along with the details of where you're located so we can figure out how it compares with others tried around there.

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post #9345 of 10088 Old 12-26-2011, 09:20 PM
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Wow, you can catch KVOS from Des Moines? that's incredible. Must live on high ground then.
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post #9346 of 10088 Old 12-27-2011, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

Dan: actually I was looking at the Mohu Leaf for my retired parents. They reside in a condo adjacent to the Rainier Golf & Country Club (Des Moines Memorial Drive and S. 118th Street. Their location has a strong signal on several local channels, and have been using a Philips Silver Sensor indoors with reasonably good results. The problem is they experience periodic loss of signal from aircraft flights.

My parents absolutely dislike the idea of paying Comcast to receive their local channels. I wondered if the Mohu Leaf actually performs any better than the Silver Sensor (which I bought for my folks as it seemed like the best candidate for indoor reception at their address).

FYI, if they rotate their Silver Sensor the right direction, they can pull in KVOS-DT from their address. Alas, they don't like repositioning the antenna.

As for my location on south McMicken Heights, while I do have a few antennas and a converter box that I fiddle around with, I subscribe to Comcast to receive local stations.

I have had reasonable results with the Silver Sensor and with a CM 4221 placed indoors. The deal-breaker with OTA reception from my location is that when people walk around north of my condo, it creates signal break-up and pixillation. Until such time as I move - or find a "miracle" antenna , I'll reluctantly pay Comcast to obtain TV reception in my ground-floor condo.

seatacboy
That's a beautiful area around the golf course. Before the airport ruined the tranquility, it was one of the classier areas. Been in some older homes there that rival Broadmoor. The trolley used to run from Seattle along the Des Moines drive making it a great place to commute from.
Depending on where they are around the course, it can be tricky. You're right, signals are quite strong, except for ch13 vhf. Even with the best outdoor antennas, it was rare to be able to completely negate the effects from the incoming planes. You obviously have tried the most common methods, and done pretty well.
One thing that might work, if you can get them on board with a second remote, is to use another SS antenna, aimed for the second spot, and use the Ratshack A/B remote antenna switch.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2049643
You could label the A button for one set of channels and the B for the others. Little fubar, but could make it easier for them.
As another thought, I went through a similar thing with my folks. They just couldn't see spending the money for free TV. My other brothers and I just got them the basic $13/mo setup, with the bill going to us as a Christmas gift. They couldn't say no, and they get a few extra channels, too. Every time we visit the TV is on, so I know they're enjoying it. Last summer, we sprung for the internet hookup, which is cheaper with the basic cable. Only 1.5mbps, but fast enough for e-mail and Skype, which they love. Seeing all the grandkids just really makes their day.
Just an idea that might work if your budget allows. It was cheap for all they did for us!

Dan
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post #9347 of 10088 Old 12-27-2011, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by be236 View Post

Wow, you can catch KVOS from Des Moines? that's incredible. Must live on high ground then.

Actually, it's northeast Burien near the Rainier Golf & Country Club. Des Moines Memorial Drive runs from Des Moines all the way into Seattle's South Park neighborhood (some 13 miles). Their location is fairly high up in altitude. Walking in their immediate neighborhood, you can visually see the main Seattle transmitters on Queen Anne, Capitol Hill and Tiger Mountain.
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post #9348 of 10088 Old 12-27-2011, 08:29 AM
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@Dan: The homes around the Rainier Golf & Country Club are indeed quite nice. Of all the indoor antennas we've tried, the (non-amplified) Silver Sensor was the most resistant to aviation interference from overhead airplanes. Still, DTV is an "all or nothing" proposition and sometimes they lose reception for a few moments during the best part of a favorite show. You are correct that KCPQ/13 is rather weak at their location, but the SS can receive it most of the time. I may try the remote antenna switch and donate another SS and see how it works out. (I've had lots of conversations with them about Comcast Limited Basic service.....)
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post #9349 of 10088 Old 12-29-2011, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

@Dan: The homes around the Rainier Golf & Country Club are indeed quite nice. Of all the indoor antennas we've tried, the (non-amplified) Silver Sensor was the most resistant to aviation interference from overhead airplanes. Still, DTV is an "all or nothing" proposition and sometimes they lose reception for a few moments during the best part of a favorite show. You are correct that KCPQ/13 is rather weak at their location, but the SS can receive it most of the time. I may try the remote antenna switch and donate another SS and see how it works out. (I've had lots of conversations with them about Comcast Limited Basic service.....)

seatacboy
I think it's great that you're going the extra mile for the folks. As long as they're happy with what they get, that's about all you can do. We all get stuck in our old ways!
They should be able to get ch13 on 22-2, though, right?
Just for giggles, try to get the antennas near a north facing window, too, if possible. The Sensors are small enough you might be able to hide one under an eave or out of sight outside. Just seal up the balun and connections. The extra distance in cable is no big deal. There's plenty of signal.
Tell them Happy New Years from us!
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post #9350 of 10088 Old 12-30-2011, 05:58 PM
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Just read at nwbroadcasters.com that KSTW has shut down their Port Angeles analog translator on channel 62 as of today and have no plans to replace it with anything digital. Two days ago I was in Mukilteo with an SNG truck and decided to see if they were still on the air. They were, so apparently I've watched my last snowy, analog off-air TV ever. Anybody else know of any analog TV still being broadcast here in Washington state? I know there's some LP stations still on the air in Minneapolis...

Val
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post #9351 of 10088 Old 12-30-2011, 08:45 PM
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Originally They submitted an application for low power digital on channel 11. The application was dismissed. They filed a new application to use channel 51. On August 21, 2011, The FCC issued a freeze on processing applications to use channel 51.


Hope you all have a happy New Year !!!


Mike

Mike
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post #9352 of 10088 Old 12-30-2011, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

Have any of you in the Seattle metro area used the Mohu Leaf indoor antenna?

I just got this and posted my review:

Quote:


This antenna lives up to the hype! Mine is hung up on the wall next to the window, and I get all but the elusive Fox channel in Seattle (by the way for those in the same boat, a lower-definition version of Fox is available on 22.2).

With the cheapo rabbit ears I had previously tried, I only got about half of what Antennaweb said I should get, and many channels were unwatchable because of dropouts.

With the Mohu antenna all the channels, UHF and VHF, come in with almost no occasional pixelation. I can't rave enough about this thing!

A tip: I assumed hanging it on the window would yield the best results, but once I attached my 3M Command adhesive strip, the weaker channels wouldn't come in. I heeded the advice to try other locations, so I thought I might as well try sticking it on the wall (which happens to be a corner next to the window). Presto: when high enough on the wall (level with the top of the window), all the channels appear as if I had cable!

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post #9353 of 10088 Old 12-31-2011, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desmondo163 View Post

I just got this and posted my review:

desmondo163
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post #9354 of 10088 Old 12-31-2011, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike84 View Post

Originally They submitted an application for low power digital on channel 11. The application was dismissed. They filed a new application to use channel 51. On August 21, 2011, The FCC issued a freeze on processing applications to use channel 51.


Hope you all have a happy New Year !!!


Mike

TV Query on the FCC website still shows that they have an application for channel 51 digital. So I guess they are still frozen but not dismissed.

Val
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post #9355 of 10088 Old 01-02-2012, 07:51 PM
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Val,

Thanks for the 'heads-up' and you are right, analog 62 is gone ... CARP! It was one of my favorite weekend channels. VHF 11 is viable here at 18+ feet above my roof. I prefer to use their dependible translator almost 40 miles away using an existing antenna I have in the air.

I wondered if they would follow thru on their CP and (apparently) they have (wisely?) chosen otherwise. Perhaps they want regular viewers to SCREAM at the FCC. Go for it, viewers!

Opinion: I think KING-5 (48) (also with a CP) hasn't raised/replaced their antenna is do to similar (political) reasons. Why spend the $$$$$$ and have the Government shut you down?

Jim
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post #9356 of 10088 Old 01-02-2012, 08:51 PM
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Is KING-5 so hard to get? I get it easily here in Mill Creek area.
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post #9357 of 10088 Old 01-03-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in Seattle View Post

Val,

Thanks for the 'heads-up' and you are right, analog 62 is gone ... CARP! It was one of my favorite weekend channels. VHF 11 is viable here at 18+ feet above my roof. I prefer to use their dependible translator almost 40 miles away using an existing antenna I have in the air.

I wondered if they would follow thru on their CP and (apparently) they have (wisely?) chosen otherwise. Perhaps they want regular viewers to SCREAM at the FCC. Go for it, viewers!

Opinion: I think KING-5 (48) (also with a CP) hasn't raised/replaced their antenna is do to similar (political) reasons. Why spend the $$$$$$ and have the Government shut you down?

Jim

Why would the FCC shut down a broadcaster on channel 48? That's not close to the apparently disputed territory of channel 51. And I think that the FCC froze the application of the KSTW translator, not the other way around. They didn't follow through because it wasn't granted, not because they didn't want to is how I read it.

Val
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post #9358 of 10088 Old 01-04-2012, 01:00 PM
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Alright all you prognosticators out there...here's the skinny on our ch.62 analog translator shutdown for good...and there will be NO digital translator in our future.
we were caught by several "gotcha's"

we filed for ch.51 digital. waited forEVER for the CRTC (canadian FCC) to approve..since it's so close to the border. They still had not approved it to date. So, while we waited....

Vulcan Wireless...which has been granted ch.52 for wireless broadband (future allocation, not yet built) decided to OBJECT to our ch.51 translator as it might interfere with their operation on ch.52...even though we would have a newer "stringent mask filter" system on the output....

But...in the meantime...the FCC this past fall did 2 rulings. Freeze on all applications for ch.51 across the USA. All existing analog translators in the US have to either file for a new in core channel for digital or shut off by 12/31/2011.

our consultant had already gone thru trying to find a digital channel for us 3 years ago for the translator and since that time, several other digital translator channels have been approved and built in the area...so we had no channels available...again...we have to have a channel compatible with both US and Canadian allotments.

since the June 2009 conversion of our main signal on VHF 11 and our subsequent raise in ERP to 100Kw. (largest ERP on the left coast for a VHF)...we were now covering all CATV input requisites on the peninsula and the islands.
AND finally...the 2 Canadian viewers that call us when the translator is off the air don't count in the DMA...(actually we get canadian off air viewers that pickup our ch.11 VHF just fine)

so....we turned it off, for good.

Ron D.
CE, KSTW
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post #9359 of 10088 Old 01-06-2012, 11:31 PM
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Say Ron,

Will KSTW be getting any sub channels, any time soon? Like KOMO, KING, etc already do?
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post #9360 of 10088 Old 01-07-2012, 04:32 PM
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Hi,

we live in Seward Park, use an antenna connected to the TV, and while FOX has been finnicky for years, we always have been able to get it.

The day we hooked up our Samsung TV all the channels worked fine, but 2 days later we lost connection to channel 13 FOX and haven't been able to get it back. ( except it flickered on for a second today, but went away just as fast)

we've moved the antenna every which way, checked the connection to the Tivo - but nada.

help?

thanks!

Lisa
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