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post #10051 of 10088 Old 05-28-2014, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

Like you, I've found it hard to obtain 100% reliable signal on KBTC's RF 16 translator even though the other Capitol Hill stations are quite reliable here. KBTC 16 is mounted very low on their towers and with very low power. It's a real nuisance since my 4228 is pointed towards Capitol Hill, so pickup from RF17 to the southwest is not consistent.
Can you tell me what other stations are broadcast from Capitol Hill? Where on CH is the tower? Is it toward the south end? Thanks biggrin.gif
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post #10052 of 10088 Old 05-28-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

Can you tell me what other stations are broadcast from Capitol Hill? Where on CH is the tower? Is it toward the south end? Thanks biggrin.gif

There are three towers, roughly at 17th and Madison (across from Trader Joe's) that are home to K08OU, KCTS, KSTW, KCPQ LD, KZJO, KRUM LD, KBTC LD, and KFFV. FMs K233BU and KUOW also transmit from Captiol Hill.
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post #10053 of 10088 Old 05-28-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pastiche View Post

There are three towers, roughly at 17th and Madison (across from Trader Joe's) that are home to K08OU, KCTS, KSTW, KCPQ LD, KZJO, KRUM LD, KBTC LD, and KFFV. FMs K233BU and KUOW also transmit from Captiol Hill.
Thanks. It is amazing that I get everything but KBTC. Too bad for them and me! mad.gif
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post #10054 of 10088 Old 06-03-2014, 04:48 PM
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KSTW moved to the Capitol Hill Transmit site in Seattle in 1980 I believe. The transmitter previously was located in Port Orchard/Olalla area prior to that. In the mid to late sixties the transmit site was the original KTNT site in Tacoma, just off of Sprague Ave.

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CE, KSTW
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post #10055 of 10088 Old 06-03-2014, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

Here's three TV Fool charts for my location: the first one is At Ground Level, the second is 20 Feet Above Ground Level, the third is 30 Feet Above Ground Level:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de1c618d57b88a3
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de1c6bb4bdea3f1
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de1c6c6ec9ddd3a

At 20ft AGL, it shows KWPX/33 is about 33NM , which you should easily get that station, so I'm surprised why you cant.

If you remember my situation, I have CKVU/33 at the front at LOS 22NM, and KWPX/33 around 2-3 NM and I still can't get CKVU. Yet, if I turn my 91XG towards KWPX, I can pick it up just fine! Go figure.
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post #10056 of 10088 Old 06-08-2014, 01:51 AM
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Hi all, first post on this thread, just moved to a new apartment in downtown Seattle (The Nolo, Stadium Place) and I can't for the life of me get FOX (#gohawks). I bought 6 different antennas from Best Buy today and tested w/o success. (best was Mohu Leaf which got ABC, NBC, CBS just fine but still no FOX)

My last resort is trying the Terk HDTVa and hopefully being able to 'point' it to Bremerton (that's where FOX's tower's located right?) to see if that'll work. Is that worth trying or is there a better antenna out there, or (gasp) will I have to just order Comcast. frown.gif

My location is:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de1c673821e94f8
http://www.antennaweb.org/Stations.aspx?Address=520+Occidental+Avenue+South&City=Seattle&State=WA&ZIP=98104&Housing=M&Accuracy=6&Height=9&Obstructed=False&StationList=&Lat=47.5981186&Lon=-122.3332365

Any help would be great so I can avoid having to buy cable again, thanks!
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post #10057 of 10088 Old 06-09-2014, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by consumedsoul View Post

Hi all, first post on this thread, just moved to a new apartment in downtown Seattle (The Nolo, Stadium Place) and I can't for the life of me get FOX (#gohawks). I bought 6 different antennas from Best Buy today and tested w/o success. (best was Mohu Leaf which got ABC, NBC, CBS just fine but still no FOX)....My last resort is trying the Terk HDTVa and hopefully being able to 'point' it to Bremerton (that's where FOX's tower's located right?) to see if that'll work. Is that worth trying or is there a better antenna out there, or (gasp) will I have to just order Comcast. ...
You DON'T need an amplified indoor antenna, and using one might actually eliminate your reception on KING/KOMO/KIRO/KONG due to signal overload. The Mohu Leaf should be just fine - and it's even possible that at your location reception strength might be so intense that a simple paper clip inserted into the RF input would receive reception while avoiding signal overload.

You DON'T need to point your antenna towards Gold Mountain. KCPQ has a repeater on the Capitol Hill towers that is very, very strong where you live. The Capitol Hill repeater maps out to 13.1. In fact, there's a good chance if you place an antenna properly, you might get TWO feeds of channel 13.1: the Capitol Hill repeater which transits on "real frequency" (RF) 22, and the Gold Mountain transmitter at RF 13. The KCPQ Capitol Hill repeater on RF 22 is a full HD feed. It's not to be confused with the 480i SD-only feed of KCPQ that carried as a subchannel of KZJO. KZJO transmits at RF 25 but is confusingly mapped to virtual channel 22.1, with the 480i KCPQ feed as 22.2.

Side note: A clue as to whether you could receive KCPQ's Gold Mountain transmitter is to see if you receive KTBW, the station whose transmitter is on the same tower just below that of KCPQ. KTBW is at RF 14 but the "virtual channel" is 20.1. While you may not be interested in KTBW's programming, if you can receive strong and stable signal on low-UHF KTBW then you should also receive strong and stable signal on high-VHF KCPQ from the same location.

One more thing: for an urban location with multistory or highrise buildings and skyscrapers, input your TV Fool location as "At Ground Level" (zero feet). Although you might actually live in a unit 60 feet above the ground, you live in a high-rise concrete jungle. Radio waves don't behave "correctly" when they have to penetrate adjacent building structures. Neighboring high-rise buildings seriously hurt your reception, even when TV Fool says you have "LOS". In any high-rise building concrete jungle location, the phrase "above ground level" should really be interpreted as "above adjacent high-rise buildings" level. If you were at the Columbia Tower Club in the Columbia Center, on TV Fool you should run TV Fool calculations based on being 100 feet above other high-rise buildings, rather than 700 feet above ground level.

Try placing your NON-AMPLIFIED Mohu Leaf in different spots of the window. Cheers!
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post #10058 of 10088 Old 06-09-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

You DON'T need an amplified indoor antenna, and using one might actually eliminate your reception on KING/KOMO/KIRO/KONG due to signal overload. The Mohu Leaf should be just fine - and it's even possible that at your location reception strength might be so intense that a simple paper clip inserted into the RF input would receive reception while avoiding signal overload.

You DON'T need to point your antenna towards Gold Mountain. KCPQ has a repeater on the Capitol Hill towers that is very, very strong where you live. The Capitol Hill repeater maps out to 13.1. In fact, there's a good chance if you place an antenna properly, you might get TWO feeds of channel 13.1: the Capitol Hill repeater which transits on "real frequency" (RF) 22, and the Gold Mountain transmitter at RF 13. The KCPQ Capitol Hill repeater on RF 22 is a full HD feed. It's not to be confused with the 480i SD-only feed of KCPQ that carried as a subchannel of KZJO. KZJO transmits at RF 25 but is confusingly mapped to virtual channel 22.1, with the 480i KCPQ feed as 22.2.

Side note: A clue as to whether you could receive KCPQ's Gold Mountain transmitter is to see if you receive KTBW, the station whose transmitter is on the same tower just below that of KCPQ. KTBW is at RF 14 but the "virtual channel" is 20.1. While you may not be interested in KTBW's programming, if you can receive strong and stable signal on low-UHF KTBW then you should also receive strong and stable signal on high-VHF KCPQ from the same location.

One more thing: for an urban location with multistory or highrise buildings and skyscrapers, input your TV Fool location as "At Ground Level" (zero feet). Although you might actually live in a unit 60 feet above the ground, you live in a high-rise concrete jungle. Radio waves don't behave "correctly" when they have to penetrate adjacent building structures. Neighboring high-rise buildings seriously hurt your reception, even when TV Fool says you have "LOS". In any high-rise building concrete jungle location, the phrase "above ground level" should really be interpreted as "above adjacent high-rise buildings" level. If you were at the Columbia Tower Club in the Columbia Center, on TV Fool you should run TV Fool calculations based on being 100 feet above other high-rise buildings, rather than 700 feet above ground level.

Try placing your NON-AMPLIFIED Mohu Leaf in different spots of the window. Cheers!

Thanks so much for the info! I think I must just have a ton of interference from neighboring buildings then unfortunately - my window is facing WEST towards water, and there's a building blocking across the street, and our building is reinforced concrete left and right. frown.gif
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post #10059 of 10088 Old 06-10-2014, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by consumedsoul View Post

Thanks so much for the info! I think I must just have a ton of interference from neighboring buildings then unfortunately - my window is facing WEST towards water, and there's a building blocking across the street, and our building is reinforced concrete left and right. frown.gif

consumedsoul
You basically answered your question.
Channels 4-5-7-16 can bounce around down first avenue from QA Hill, but the rest are east of you or west. Buildings across the street are taller than you, and your own building blocks the rest.
Basic Comcast is going to be the only solution for FOX. At least you'll get all the locals. Ask for the limited basic local channels only. Should be about $15/mo.
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post #10060 of 10088 Old 06-16-2014, 09:44 PM
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TREES, HILLS and ADJACENT HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS are the barriers to obtaining reliable digital TV reception in Seattle. The ATSC digital TV system was not designed for hilly-tree-laden Seattle-area neighborhoods.

At this time of year, I'm not watching as much TV as I'm very busy with lawn and garden maintenance. Most of the time, the CM-4228 HD installed on the side of our house (2 feet above the roofline) works pretty well with KCTS/9, KSTW/11, KCPQ/13 and 22, KONG/16, KTBW/20, KZJO/22, KRUM-LD/24, KOMO/38, KIRO/39, KFFV/44, KING/48 and KUNS/50. The antenna is aimed "in between" two 200-foot-high Douglas Firs which block the direct line-of-sight to Queen Anne and Capital Hill.

However, KBTC reception is disappointing. We had hoped the KBTC RF16 translator would work well, but it's suffered fairly frequent break-ups and signal loss. KBTC/16 is halfway down the Capital Hill towers and uses a penlight-battery 1,000 watts output. By contrast, KZJO/25 is at the top of the towers and transmits with 1 million watts of power.

KBTC's RF27 main station is in a different direction than the Capital Hill/Queen Anne towers - it's to the southwest and (you guessed it) is blocked by trees!

Our antenna is also pointed off-axis for the Tiger Mountain stations, so they don't come in without fairly frequent breakups and signal loss. I end up using an indoor antenna when my wife wants to watch KWPX. It's not quite what I had expected - but my point here is that TREES are a huge obstacle to digital TV reception, along with having TV transmitters placed in five different directions. It is quite possible that power levels on many of the stations would improve somewhat if our antenna were placed about 10 feet higher up off of the roofline, in terms of what TV Fool shows for this address and location.

If your particular house has nearby tall trees, tall buildings or hills in the same direction as the TV transmitters you wish to receive, you might be happier and have fewer regrets paying $20 to $25 per month for the cheapest Comcast Limited Basic cable service. Just my two cents' worth here...

Last edited by seatacboy; 06-16-2014 at 09:51 PM.
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post #10061 of 10088 Old 06-17-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post
TREES, HILLS and ADJACENT HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS are the barriers to obtaining reliable digital TV reception in Seattle. The ATSC digital TV system was not designed for hilly-tree-laden Seattle-area neighborhoods.

At this time of year, I'm not watching as much TV as I'm very busy with lawn and garden maintenance. Most of the time, the CM-4228 HD installed on the side of our house (2 feet above the roofline) works pretty well with KCTS/9, KSTW/11, KCPQ/13 and 22, KONG/16, KTBW/20, KZJO/22, KRUM-LD/24, KOMO/38, KIRO/39, KFFV/44, KING/48 and KUNS/50. The antenna is aimed "in between" two 200-foot-high Douglas Firs which block the direct line-of-sight to Queen Anne and Capital Hill.

However, KBTC reception is disappointing. We had hoped the KBTC RF16 translator would work well, but it's suffered fairly frequent break-ups and signal loss. KBTC/16 is halfway down the Capital Hill towers and uses a penlight-battery 1,000 watts output. By contrast, KZJO/25 is at the top of the towers and transmits with 1 million watts of power.

KBTC's RF27 main station is in a different direction than the Capital Hill/Queen Anne towers - it's to the southwest and (you guessed it) is blocked by trees!

Our antenna is also pointed off-axis for the Tiger Mountain stations, so they don't come in without fairly frequent breakups and signal loss. I end up using an indoor antenna when my wife wants to watch KWPX. It's not quite what I had expected - but my point here is that TREES are a huge obstacle to digital TV reception, along with having TV transmitters placed in five different directions. It is quite possible that power levels on many of the stations would improve somewhat if our antenna were placed about 10 feet higher up off of the roofline, in terms of what TV Fool shows for this address and location.

If your particular house has nearby tall trees, tall buildings or hills in the same direction as the TV transmitters you wish to receive, you might be happier and have fewer regrets paying $20 to $25 per month for the cheapest Comcast Limited Basic cable service. Just my two cents' worth here...
KFFV will be adding COZI TV soon. Does anyone know what .# it will be and if Comcast will add it?
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post #10062 of 10088 Old 06-18-2014, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post



Side note: A clue as to whether you could receive KCPQ's Gold Mountain transmitter is to see if you receive KTBW, the station whose transmitter is on the same tower just below that of KCPQ. KTBW is at RF 14 but the "virtual channel" is 20.1. While you may not be interested in KTBW's programming, if you can receive strong and stable signal on low-UHF KTBW then you should also receive strong and stable signal on high-VHF KCPQ from the same location.
Correction- KTBW is on a different tower than KCPQ, although they are both on Gold Mountain. The towers are roughly 1/2 mile apart.

Val
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post #10063 of 10088 Old 06-18-2014, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by pastiche View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by tmn1 

Can you tell me what other stations are broadcast from Capitol Hill? Where on CH is the tower? Is it toward the south end? Thanks


There are three towers, roughly at 17th and Madison (across from Trader Joe's) that are home to K08OU, KCTS, KSTW, KCPQ LD, KZJO, KRUM LD, KBTC LD, and KFFV. FMs K233BU and KUOW also transmit from Captiol Hill.
KEXP 90.3 is also located on one of the Capitol Hill towers.

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post #10064 of 10088 Old 06-18-2014, 08:55 PM
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KEXP 90.3 is also located on one of the Capitol Hill towers.
Thank you! Not quite sure how that slipped my mind.
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post #10065 of 10088 Old 06-20-2014, 07:49 PM
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With these results, does anyone have a recommendation for an antenna in Olympia. I know height is probably important, but I've seen some trailers / motorhomes nearby with their OTA antennas at roof height (fairly low). There's plenty of trees around too. It looks like channel 9 (KCTS) and 11 (KSTW) are the problem children, VHF Hi. The AntennaCraft HBU22 caught my eye on Amazon, http://amzn.com/B0035A6AUG , but I just want the best bet please. Also, any recommendations on a rotor that will last? I've read that the Radio Shack ones are junk now.
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post #10066 of 10088 Old 06-21-2014, 03:30 AM
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Antennacraft IS Radio Shack.

Post the LINK to your TVFool plot a per the instructions, not an image of it.
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post #10067 of 10088 Old 06-23-2014, 09:54 PM
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With these results, does anyone have a recommendation for an antenna in Olympia. I know height is probably important, but I've seen some trailers / motorhomes nearby with their OTA antennas at roof height (fairly low). There's plenty of trees around too. It looks like channel 9 (KCTS) and 11 (KSTW) are the problem children, VHF Hi. The AntennaCraft HBU22 caught my eye on Amazon, http://amzn.com/B0035A6AUG , but I just want the best bet please. Also, any recommendations on a rotor that will last? I've read that the Radio Shack ones are junk now.
What's your nearest cross streets?
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post #10068 of 10088 Old 07-15-2014, 09:41 PM
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Much as I have complained about some of the drawbacks of antenna-based digital TV reception here in the Seattle area - particularly those doggoned trees, buildings and hills which mess up reception even with a good rooftop antenna - this real-life recorded telephone call from a Comcast customer attempting to cancel their service may be THE best reason to use an antenna for watching KING, KOMO, KIRO, KCTS, KSTW, KCPQ, KWPX, KZJO, KBTC and our other local TV stations:

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/this-may-...851980684.html

Even if it costs you some $$ to purchase an outdoor antenna, mounting mast, secure strapping materials, grounding wires, fairly long runs of professional-grade RG6 coax, and then install or reconfigure the interior wiring of hour home in order to receive video signal throughout your house (something the cable company "might" do for a lower fee as an introductory "teaser") .... not having to deal with the lousy service of the nation's largest cable company - which is a monopoly in most of Greater Seattle - may make cutting the cable and using your own antenna very worthwhile.

If hearing the above-listed customer service call has you interested in using an antenna, you might ask Dan the resident antenna guru for tips on what works and what doesn't here around Greater Seattle. Just keep in mind that a really good antenna install will cost some bucks, but it will provide you "free TV" for many years. Cheers!
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post #10069 of 10088 Old 07-16-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post
...
Even if it costs you some $$ to purchase an outdoor antenna, mounting mast, secure strapping materials, grounding wires, fairly long runs of professional-grade RG6 coax, and then install or reconfigure the interior wiring of hour home in order to receive video signal throughout your house (something the cable company "might" do for a lower fee as an introductory "teaser") .... not having to deal with the lousy service of the nation's largest cable company - which is a monopoly in most of Greater Seattle - may make cutting the cable and using your own antenna very worthwhile.
...
professional-grade RG6 coax


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post #10070 of 10088 Old 07-23-2014, 06:54 PM
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professional-grade RG6 coax

I think what he means is RG6 quad shield, two layers foil, two layers braid. Satellite and cable guys normally use the standard foil shield only type.
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post #10071 of 10088 Old 07-29-2014, 02:41 AM
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KFFV / CoziTV / WeatherNation

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Originally Posted by moresports View Post
KFFV will be adding COZI TV soon. Does anyone know what .# it will be and if Comcast will add it?
My Comcast statement said that it will be replacing KFFV - WeatherNation (I believe that would be 44.5 and 352 on Comcast). I'm a bit bummed about that. Although I didn't watch it very often, I would check it once in awhile. It served the public's interest more than CoziTV will, which is the whole point of a broadcast station. I'm hoping they bump WeatherNation to another subchannel.

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post #10072 of 10088 Old 07-29-2014, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ;
It served the public's interest more than CoziTV will, which is the whole point of a broadcast station.
You have a mis-understanding of why commercial broadcast stations exist. Their purpose is to make money, same as any other commercial entity. They're supposed to also serve the public interest in return for their use of the airwaves, but that's a very broad assignment that can be met in other ways (mandated E/I programming, for example) than having your weather at your fingertips.
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post #10073 of 10088 Old 07-29-2014, 03:51 PM
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You have a mis-understanding of why commercial broadcast stations exist. Their purpose is to make money, same as any other commercial entity. They're supposed to also serve the public interest in return for their use of the airwaves, but that's a very broad assignment that can be met in other ways (mandated E/I programming, for example) than having your weather at your fingertips.
I don't really have a misunderstanding, I probably should have worded my point better. Certainly, their goal is to make money. I just feel like it's more informative than reruns of The Lone Ranger and Eye Spy and way more informative than the halfhearted effort stations put into most mandated E/I programming.

In the end, more eyes will tune into CoziTV than WeatherNation which is good for KFFV. I just hope that WeatherNation remains on a subchannel, even if in lower quality. It's a nice resource and if KFFV isn't losing money off it, then it would be a benefit to their overall station.
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post #10074 of 10088 Old 08-03-2014, 08:03 PM
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I don't really have a misunderstanding, I probably should have worded my point better. Certainly, their goal is to make money. I just feel like it's more informative than reruns of The Lone Ranger and Eye Spy and way more informative than the halfhearted effort stations put into most mandated E/I programming........
Curiously, the company which owns KFFV (OTA Broadcasting, Inc.) also owns KVOS, which carries Me-TV and Movies! Although KVOS has a very, very powerful transmitter on Mt. Constitution (far more powerful than the Canadian stations), digital reception of KVOS is inconsistent and generally pretty weak in King County even though KVOS is classified as part of the Seattle DMA. Certainly, I'd prefer seeing KFFV 44.1 serve as a MeTV repeater, rather than the endless infomercial shopping programs. One would think more eyeballs for MeTV and Movies! would translate into higher advertising rates on KFFV, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

P.S. I liked Weathernation as well and really am sad to see it's gone.

Last edited by seatacboy; 08-03-2014 at 08:10 PM.
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post #10075 of 10088 Old 08-05-2014, 08:48 PM
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Hopefully I can get some direction from one of the experts here. I desperately need to drop Comcast. I live in Burien, 98166, and tested an Ant. Direct DB4 tonight. The antenna was positioned in an open 2nd floor window, facing north, with no obstructions. I am on top of a hill. I could only get channels 11 and 13. What do I need to do to get the major networks?

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post #10076 of 10088 Old 08-06-2014, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
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What do I need to do to get the major networks?
Start by switching your TV tuner from "Cable" to "Antenna", then re-run the scan.
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post #10077 of 10088 Old 08-06-2014, 03:16 PM
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Thanks for the help. You're right. I forgot to do that. Now I have 30+ channels! All the majors except PBS. Any idea what the deal is with that?

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post #10078 of 10088 Old 08-06-2014, 04:54 PM
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Any idea what the deal is with that?
Yes. You didn't read the manual.


Oh, did you mean the PBS thing? Move the antenna and try again. It's in a spot that happens to be "dead" for that station. Since your PBS station in Seattle operates on VHF-9, you may end up needing a VHF element since the DB4 is fairly near-sighted on VHF.

Last edited by ProjectSHO89; 08-07-2014 at 03:13 AM.
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post #10079 of 10088 Old 08-11-2014, 10:26 PM
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Skagit OTA reception

Does anyone have any luck with OTA signals in Mt. Vernon or the surrounding Skagit area? I'm considering taking the plunge and trying my luck with an antenna.
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post #10080 of 10088 Old 08-14-2014, 04:37 PM
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Check out COZI on KFFV 44.5.

Wanting a strong FCC to say no to the Wireless lobby. Keep the tv broadcast band for ota television broadcasters.
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Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

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