Springfield / Joplin, MO - HDTV - Page 188 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5611 of 5621 Old 05-06-2017, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
The cell companies had nothing to do with it. Gray has been turning in station licenses as they buy up the non-license assets of stations they can't legally own the licenses to. (See WFXS.)


- Trip
KY3 is telling the public it is because of the historic spectrum auction, which is for the cell phone companies.
http://www.ky3.com/spectrum/

Whatever the convoluted reasoning is or how it ends up happening operationally, we OTA viewers in the rural areas lose 3 pretty popular channels. The station is telling people some of these will be available but neglect to tell anyone that people greater than 20 miles from Springfield are out of luck. Just "Springfield and surrounding communities..."

If they were smart, they would be honest and get in front of this because people are going to call when they lose their channels. I guess they really don't care about the few rural OTA viewers at the end of the day anyway.
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post #5612 of 5621 Old 05-06-2017, 10:00 AM
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They didnt list the reason but Trip already laid it out and I have posted info on it before. It had to do with the Gray/Schurz buyout. Here are some of the links in this thread

Springfield / Joplin, MO - HDTV
Springfield / Joplin, MO - HDTV
Springfield / Joplin, MO - HDTV
Springfield / Joplin, MO - HDTV
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post #5613 of 5621 Old 05-06-2017, 12:34 PM
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Another like DTV America could pick them and solve OTA problem.
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post #5614 of 5621 Old 05-06-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MGOMRJSURF View Post
Another like DTV America could pick them and solve OTA problem.
considering DTV America mainly puts their stations right in the heart of a city it would be no better than the existing setup (probably worse as DTV America uses shorter towers in a lot of cases)
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post #5615 of 5621 Old 05-06-2017, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmo2020 View Post
KY3 is telling the public it is because of the historic spectrum auction, which is for the cell phone companies.
http://www.ky3.com/spectrum/

Whatever the convoluted reasoning is or how it ends up happening operationally, we OTA viewers in the rural areas lose 3 pretty popular channels. The station is telling people some of these will be available but neglect to tell anyone that people greater than 20 miles from Springfield are out of luck. Just "Springfield and surrounding communities..."

If they were smart, they would be honest and get in front of this because people are going to call when they lose their channels. I guess they really don't care about the few rural OTA viewers at the end of the day anyway.
There are three problems with O.T.A. T.V. in the United States:
  1. Not enough power (especially on the VHF band). VHF channels need to go back to broadcasting with 316 kilowatts of effective radiated power.
  2. Masts which are not tall enough. Taller masts equal greater reach.
  3. The use of A.T.S.C. DVBT2 is superior as it does not have as much of a "digital cliff" DVBT2 has a middle ground between signal and no signal where you get a degraded signal.
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post #5616 of 5621 Old 05-07-2017, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingersoll View Post
There are three problems with O.T.A. T.V. in the United States:
  1. Not enough power (especially on the VHF band). VHF channels need to go back to broadcasting with 316 kilowatts of effective radiated power.
  2. Masts which are not tall enough. Taller masts equal greater reach.
  3. The use of A.T.S.C. DVBT2 is superior as it does not have as much of a "digital cliff" DVBT2 has a middle ground between signal and no signal where you get a degraded signal.
1. The 316 kw maximum ERP you quoted on VHF was concentrated in the vertical sync pulse of the NTSC signal. Digital uses an average of the whole channel bandwidth. Not the same thing at all. In any event, if VHF stations were permitted to go that high of power, the interference in locations between major cities would be so strong as the make it impossible to receive due to interference. There is a reason for the existing power levels. FWIW, UHF broadcasters were allowed up to 5 MW ERP with NTSC!

2. Home owners, too often, look for the easy/cheap way out when it comes to installing an antenna. There are hardly any local businesses that still install towers or tall antenna installations since most of those guys have either died, retired, or moved on to other business lines.

3. Water under the bridge for ATSC, those decisions were made over 20 years ago. The evolution to ATSC 3, which uses an ODFM format, will greatly improve reception in multi-path-prone areas.
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post #5617 of 5621 Old 05-07-2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
1. The 316 kw maximum ERP you quoted on VHF was concentrated in the vertical sync pulse of the NTSC signal. Digital uses an average of the whole channel bandwidth. Not the same thing at all. In any event, if VHF stations were permitted to go that high of power, the interference in locations between major cities would be so strong as the make it impossible to receive due to interference. There is a reason for the existing power levels. FWIW, UHF broadcasters were allowed up to 5 MW ERP with NTSC!

2. Home owners, too often, look for the easy/cheap way out when it comes to installing an antenna. There are hardly any local businesses that still install towers or tall antenna installations since most of those guys have either died, retired, or moved on to other business lines.

3. Water under the bridge for ATSC, those decisions were made over 20 years ago. The evolution to ATSC 3, which uses an ODFM format, will greatly improve reception in multi-path-prone areas.
The reason I don't get reception on VHF is not because of multi-path it's because the VHF signal is too weak due to ridiculous power reduction. Homeowners should not have to go to expensive and elaborate means to get over the air signals. http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/3...-a-power-boost
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post #5618 of 5621 Old 05-08-2017, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ingersoll View Post
The reason I don't get reception on VHF is not because of multi-path it's because the VHF signal is too weak due to ridiculous power reduction. Homeowners should not have to go to expensive and elaborate means to get over the air signals. http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/3...-a-power-boost
Guess again. Old-timer remember having to have towers and very large antennas installed if they wanted reliable analog reception back in the day.

Since that article was written in 2009, many VHF stations either did increase power or moved to UHF. Other stations either didn't care or were constrained by the realities of what they were allowed to do. We're seven years down the road. and you're beating a long-dead horse. Let it rot and go away. Analog and its power levels on VHF are dead and still misunderstood if you do not understand the difference between peak and average power levels as well as the implications for adjacent market interference.
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post #5619 of 5621 Old 05-11-2017, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
Guess again. Old-timer remember having to have towers and very large antennas installed if they wanted reliable analog reception back in the day.

Since that article was written in 2009, many VHF stations either did increase power or moved to UHF. Other stations either didn't care or were constrained by the realities of what they were allowed to do. We're seven years down the road. and you're beating a long-dead horse. Let it rot and go away. Analog and its power levels on VHF are dead and still misunderstood if you do not understand the difference between peak and average power levels as well as the implications for adjacent market interference.
Adjacent market interference? There are no markets around broadcasting on channels 7 or 14.
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post #5620 of 5621 Old Today, 04:54 AM
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So will KSPR-LD be on RF 15 at their downtown Springfield facility, and KYCW-LD will be on RF-19 at Fordland with reduced power? I was wondering because RF 15 might interfere with KMOS, but since RF 15 will be low power and far away I don't think it will be an issue for me. When KYTV moves to 19, what will happen to KYCW-LD?
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post #5621 of 5621 Old Today, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by scottmo2020 View Post
So will KSPR-LD be on RF 15 at their downtown Springfield facility, and KYCW-LD will be on RF-19 at Fordland with reduced power?
sounds right

Quote:
When KYTV moves to 19, what will happen to KYCW-LD?
Low powered stations will have a time frame next year to file with the FCC for open stations in an area (if they are getting bumped by a full powered station). This one is unique as Gray owns both stations (most cases the station being bumped for another station are not co-owned)
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