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post #691 of 5467 Old 03-08-2006, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic646 View Post

So I should hook the antenna up first and find my reception before I drill any holes in my roof for the mount.

It's not usually not practical for the typical homeowner to do with a large antenna and no portable OTA test equipment. Most professional installers (what's left of 'em) would also likely just install the antenna, and try other methods if reception was bad.
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post #692 of 5467 Old 03-09-2006, 04:23 PM
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Well I just got my 4228 today. Its been raining all day so I havent put it on the roof yet, but I did set it up in my living room and Im picking up 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, 21-1, 21-2, 21-3, 33-1. Only 3-1 and 21-2 are HD though. Im hoping when I get it set up on my roof I can get 19-1. My guide shows that Im picking up 10-1 and 27-1 and it shows American Idol and The OC on 27-1 as HD. But my signal strength is only 5% and I cant get a picture. I didnt think KOLR and KSFX were broadcasting in HD yet.

One more thing - I switched from composite to hdmi and my HD channels actually look worse. With the HDMI you can see pixelation on faster moving scenes and the picture looks "grainy". The HDMI cable is "Accoustic Research" brand. From what Ive read, its a good cable. Anyone have any suggestions?
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post #693 of 5467 Old 03-09-2006, 05:24 PM
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Glad your 4228 arrived so quickly. Looks like it should work fine on the roof or in maybe in your attic - if you can get it in the attic. They are kinda large!

Don't you mean you switched from component to HDMI? Anyway, some TVs actually look better using component. Use your eyes and use the connection that looks the best. But save the cable in case you ever need it IF D* is forced to use HDMI content protection by content providers. Content protection turns off HD on the component connection.

You said it looks grainy? What is your (artificial) sharpness control set on? For HD, sharpness should be turned all the way down or very low.
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post #694 of 5467 Old 03-09-2006, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic646 View Post

Well I just got my 4228 today. Its been raining all day so I havent put it on the roof yet, but I did set it up in my living room and Im picking up 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, 21-1, 21-2, 21-3, 33-1. Only 3-1 and 21-2 are HD though. Im hoping when I get it set up on my roof I can get 19-1. My guide shows that Im picking up 10-1 and 27-1 and it shows American Idol and The OC on 27-1 as HD. But my signal strength is only 5% and I cant get a picture. I didnt think KOLR and KSFX were broadcasting in HD yet.

One more thing - I switched from composite to hdmi and my HD channels actually look worse. With the HDMI you can see pixelation on faster moving scenes and the picture looks "grainy". The HDMI cable is "Accoustic Research" brand. From what Ive read, its a good cable. Anyone have any suggestions?

"Composite" cannot show an HD signal. As the previous poster mentioned, perhaps you meant component.

I thought that HDMI was a purely digital (1's and 0's) signaling standard. As long as the cable can accurately deliver 1's and 0's in the right order and at the right speed, I don't see what difference the brand or type of HDMI cable can make. Can anyone comment? Am I wrong?

PLM
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post #695 of 5467 Old 03-09-2006, 06:08 PM
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Duh, brainfart. Yes I meant component. I just realized what my problem is. When I switched my tv to HDMI, it reset all my picture settings to default. So Im going to set them to what they were on my component connection and see if that helps.

EDIT: It helped the grainy look, but its still pixelated. It looks too..."digital". On component it looked great and on the newer, supposedly better HDMI technology its pixelated. Go figure. I also just noticed Im only getting 21-2 in at 720p.

arxaw - I doubt it will fit into my attic openening, like you said it is pretty big. I didnt realize it was that big when I ordered it. I bought a tripod to mount it on my roof so I hope it will be secure enough. Since this thing is so directional, if I wanted to buy a rotor later on would it still work with a tripod? Or will I have to get some other kind of mount?

Heres how my setup looks right now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...6/DSC02372.jpg
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post #696 of 5467 Old 03-09-2006, 08:36 PM
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Chaotic646, I have a setup like yours, but I have my 4228 mounted on a rotor. I live in Rolla and am able to pick up 3-1 on occasion.
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post #697 of 5467 Old 03-10-2006, 05:22 AM
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chaotic,
it'll look *much* better on the roof

If it's windy where you live, you'll probably need something more substantial to mount the 4228. It is susceptible to wind loading. Contact Warren Electronics about mounting & rotors. They are very helpful.

BTW, the dimensions of the 4221 and the double-twin 4228 are posted on their web site
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post #698 of 5467 Old 03-10-2006, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic646 View Post

Well I just got my 4228 today. Its been raining all day so I havent put it on the roof yet, but I did set it up in my living room and Im picking up 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, 21-1, 21-2, 21-3, 33-1. Only 3-1 and 21-2 are HD though. Im hoping when I get it set up on my roof I can get 19-1. My guide shows that Im picking up 10-1 and 27-1 and it shows American Idol and The OC on 27-1 as HD. But my signal strength is only 5% and I cant get a picture. I didnt think KOLR and KSFX were broadcasting in HD yet.

One more thing - I switched from composite to hdmi and my HD channels actually look worse. With the HDMI you can see pixelation on faster moving scenes and the picture looks "grainy". The HDMI cable is "Accoustic Research" brand. From what Ive read, its a good cable. Anyone have any suggestions?

do you live in springfield, 33-1 is supposed to be very low power in city limits only?
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post #699 of 5467 Old 03-10-2006, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic646 View Post

Duh, brainfart. Yes I meant component. I just realized what my problem is. When I switched my tv to HDMI, it reset all my picture settings to default. So Im going to set them to what they were on my component connection and see if that helps.

EDIT: It helped the grainy look, but its still pixelated. It looks too..."digital". On component it looked great and on the newer, supposedly better HDMI technology its pixelated. Go figure. I also just noticed Im only getting 21-2 in at 720p.

arxaw - I doubt it will fit into my attic openening, like you said it is pretty big. I didnt realize it was that big when I ordered it. I bought a tripod to mount it on my roof so I hope it will be secure enough. Since this thing is so directional, if I wanted to buy a rotor later on would it still work with a tripod? Or will I have to get some other kind of mount?

Heres how my setup looks right now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...6/DSC02372.jpg


is that big screen in the back ground a dlp projection or crt. crt is analog technology, and will look better over component cables, those upconverting dvd players don't look very good on crt tv's either.
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post #700 of 5467 Old 03-10-2006, 09:04 AM
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trbizwiz - Its aToshiba 57H84 CRT Rear-projection tv. If component looks better on CRT's, why would they put HDMI inputs on them? Im not saying you're wrong, that just seems strange to me.

About the 33-1, with my antenna in my living room Im picking up 33-1 with a 96% signal strength. 19-1 doesnt even show up on my guide though. Maybe they are going to use 33-1 for HD instead of 19-1?


arxaw - They told me this tripod would be fine. What kind of mount is more secure than my tripod? I guess I could run guy wires from it but I really hope I dont have to. As far as the rotor goes, I looked into it some more and I definitely will not be doing that. I would rather just try to sell this one and get the multi-directional DB8.
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post #701 of 5467 Old 03-10-2006, 10:37 AM
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If warren told you it would be ok, then it should be. They know better than I do!
The 4228s I've see around here are on tower masts or bolted to the end of a roof peak ^ with 2 or more guy wires. But generally antennas need to be higher here, as we're on the fringe of 2 markets.

Your receiver shows 33-1 because it gets the guide and channel info from DirecTV, which remaps the channel to KSPR's analog channel. OTA-only tuners get their channel banner info from the station OTA. Evidently, the station is using the actual RF number in the PSIP channel banner info.

HDMI is added to all HDTVs now because of the copy protection crap. If networks decide to, they can shut down or downrez analog (component connections) for viewing an HD program. Whether they ever do that remains to be seen. But right now, if component looks better (and it does on a lot of TVs, especially CRT types which are analog displays), use it.
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post #702 of 5467 Old 03-10-2006, 03:31 PM
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About the 33-1, with my antenna in my living room Im picking up 33-1 with a 96% signal strength.

Are you in city limits, I have the xg91 from antennaes direct, and I cant get 33-1, I was wondering if that 4228 would work better. I am out by halltown, maybe there is no hope for me out here, just too far???
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post #703 of 5467 Old 03-10-2006, 08:33 PM
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Yeah I live in Springfield just off of West-Bypass. I installed my antenna on the roof today and Im getting 100% signal now on 33-1. Im also picking up 10-1 and 27-1 but only 75%-78%.
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post #704 of 5467 Old 03-10-2006, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic646 View Post

Yeah I live in Springfield just off of West-Bypass. I installed my antenna on the roof today and Im getting 100% signal now on 33-1. Im also picking up 10-1 and 27-1 but only 75%-78%.

Glad you got the antenna up and you're lucky all those stations are coming in. 75-78% is fine if it's not bouncing around too much.

I figured the 4228 would work...
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post #705 of 5467 Old 03-11-2006, 06:34 AM
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Its not bouncing around but sometimes it gets a little blocky. Actually 27-1 was doing it pretty bad last night. Hopefully they will be turning up the power soon.

You were right this 4228 rocks. Its not as directional for me as you explained, probably because Im so close to the towers. I just had to point it east and got great reception. I even tried pointing it SE and NE and the reception didnt drop out at all.
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post #706 of 5467 Old 03-11-2006, 07:06 AM
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Here's a comparison of KSFX 27-1's power and tower height vs KYTV-DT:
KSFX-DT Effective Radiated Power= 3.8kW Tower Height above avg. terrain= 585 ft.
KYTV-DT Effective Radiated Power= 967kW Tower Height above avg. terrain= 2041 ft.
KYTV-DT's power is 250 times stronger and their tower is 3½ times taller than KSFX-DT.

Reception of weak stations on low towers will vary with weather conditions and even time of day. Your reception may also change when the leaves come out on the trees. But you are picking up more stations than most people in Springfield can. A little tweaking of your antenna aim *may* help with the weaker stations like 27-1. Or it may not....
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post #707 of 5467 Old 03-11-2006, 08:11 AM
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Yeah I think I'll get back up their today when the wife gets home and see if I can pick up 10-1 and 27-1 a little better. Since all my other channels dont drop out at all from moving the antenna, I should be able to concentrate on the weaker ones. To be honest, even when 10-1 and 27-1 are coming in clear I cant tell a difference between those and the normal 10 and 27. They look the same to me.
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post #708 of 5467 Old 03-11-2006, 08:54 AM
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I don't know if they are HD yet. May be SD digital only right now. Not sure, since I can't pick those weaklings up 50 miles away...
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post #709 of 5467 Old 03-11-2006, 10:18 AM
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Yeah they are SD digital. But I thought they would still look better than 10 and 27 analog.

EDIT: Okay, now Im kind of worried about my install. I bought all of my accessories needed to properly install from warrenelectronics. But the biggest ground rod I could find on their site was 4'. I have my antenna and my grounding block both running to the 4' ground rod but now Ive been reading on a couple different sites that you need an 8' ground rod, and it needs to be bonded to "the central building ground". I dont even know where my "central building ground" is. One of the papers that came with my antenna says to ground the antenna mast and grounding block to a 4'-8' ground rod as close to the antenna as possible but says nothing about a "central building ground". Do you guys think I'll be okay with my antenna mast and grounding block running to a 4' ground rod and nothing more? Or do I need to try to find an 8' ground rod and connect it to my "central building ground"?
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post #710 of 5467 Old 03-12-2006, 10:37 AM
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I would leave the existing ground rod, but bond (connect) it to the main house power ground, which is usually a ground rod located below your electric meter box, if the meter is ouside. If you don't bond the separate ground rod to the main power ground, you risk setting up what's called a "loop current" or stray voltage created by the different locations of the two grounds. Loop current can feed into your electronic equipment through the coax and may eventually damage it. It's also against electrical codes to have a separate ground source that's not bonded to the power ground.

Grounding an antenna will not protect it or your equipment from a direct lightning hit.
The purpose of the ground is to prevent a static charge from building up on the antenna when wind blows through it. Static buildup makes the antenna more attractive to lightning.

Satellite dish antennas must also be grounded in the same way.
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post #711 of 5467 Old 03-12-2006, 11:03 AM
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Well that sucks really bad. I ran my antenna coax down the opposite sde of my house than the sattelite/power ground so I could use a shorter cable. If I would have ran it down the side of my house the sattelite was on, I would have needed over 100' of cable to reach my H20, and probably a preamp. The way I did it, I only needed 40' and I have a 100% signal with no preamp. I guess I could run another ground wire from my antenna ground rod, underneath my house, to my power ground on the other side.
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post #712 of 5467 Old 03-12-2006, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic646 View Post

... I guess I could run another ground wire from my antenna ground rod, underneath my house, to my power ground on the other side.

That would be the best way, especially if it's the shortest route between the two ground sources.
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post #713 of 5467 Old 03-13-2006, 11:14 AM
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Today, to my surprise a QC guy from directv showed up. He said he had to check my installation. He told me the guy who installed my dish didnt weatherproof the connectors, or ground my dish properly.

He also said the KA KU 5 lnb dish CAN be roof mounted with roof braces. The installer told me the only way he could install the KA KU would be to pole-mount it and that would cost me $75. I declined so he put the 3 lnb dish up.

I guess this guy is going to be in a heap of trouble now for a terrible install and lying to me. Directv is supposed to send someone out Wednesday to take down the 3lnb and put up the KA KU.

Before I got off the phone with them, I asked if they were going to reimburse me for my inconvenience. The lady put me on hold and came back online with her supervisor. He asked how I wished to be reimbursed, and I said "I dont know, how about this season of NFL Sunday ticket half-off?" He said "How about this season of Sunday ticket for free?"

This whole experience has been a big hassle, but that made it worth it. The only reason I bought this 4228 and put it up was because I didnt want the KA KU mounted in my yard and I wanted to somehow pick up HD locals when they are all available. So I guess the money I spent on the 4228 and all the accessories to install it will basically pay for my free Sunday Ticket.

Anyone wanna buy a 4228?
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post #714 of 5467 Old 03-13-2006, 11:20 AM
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I'm glad the lazy installer got caught up with. NFL sunday ticket thing's not bad either. Whenever you've been treated wrongly and it's obvious, when you ask them for compensation, they will nearly always give you some freebies. Sometimes, they'll offer something without you even having to ask. Not too long ago, they gave me 6mos free showtime for having to sit on hold for a LONG time.

I would keep the 4228. There will probably be channels on there that won't be on the 5LNB for a long time. And the picture quality will be better OTA, too.
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post #715 of 5467 Old 03-13-2006, 12:50 PM
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Yeah I guess you're right. Plus sometimes when its raining or snowing heavily the dish loses signal and that antenna may come in handy.

As for the freebies, I doubt it costs them anything to allow my dish to pick up those Sunday Ticket channels for a few months.

The funniest part about the whole thing is the QC guy asked me about my antenna and I told him I put it up. He said besides the ground everything looked awesome, especially for me having no training and he offered me a job. I guess they are trying to get rid of their contractors and they're hiring 16 techs in the next couple months. I had to decline though because I cant stand spiders.
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post #716 of 5467 Old 03-13-2006, 01:14 PM
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well im gonna give that 4228 a try, if it works better i guess ill give the xg91 to my brother he lives in springfield. I just want to get fox and cbs as soon as they become available in hd.
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post #717 of 5467 Old 03-13-2006, 06:20 PM
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chaotic646,
What did warren charge for shipping the 4228?
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post #718 of 5467 Old 03-14-2006, 10:01 AM
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$18, but I also ordered 50ft of coax and a 4 foot ground rod so I dont know how much it would be for just the 4228. It was all packaged in the same box.
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post #719 of 5467 Old 03-14-2006, 10:41 AM
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Update on 10, 27 HD:

We won't be up in March but we are working on the project & will be up
this year. Are hope is that we are up before NFL football season. You
can check with us anytime as there is nothing on the web to keep you
posted on this project.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:26 PM
To: dsmith@kolr10.com
Subject: Channels 10-1 and 27-1


Hello. I emailed KOLR 10 around June of last year (Not sure if it was
you or
not) and asked if you guys had any plans on adding hi-def for 10 and 27. I
was told that everything should be ready to go by March of 2006. Do you
know if this is still going to happen? Also, is there anywhere I can check the status without having to call/email?

Thanks,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That would be great if they got it going by football season.
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post #720 of 5467 Old 03-14-2006, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
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$18, but I also ordered 50ft of coax and a 4 foot ground rod so I dont know how much it would be for just the 4228. It was all packaged in the same box.

Thanks for the info. I've ordered stuff from warrenelectronics.com before and had fast service. That seems like a reasonable amount to pay to ship all you ordered.
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