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post #5581 of 17385 Old 12-24-2005, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicefriend1dxp View Post

Hello,

I got a new Sony KDS-R60XBR1 today. It's a real beauty.

I'm having some problems receiving HDTV OTA. I'm in 07090, Westfield NJ (Union Co.). 19.0 miles from Empire State, according to AntennaWeb.

More details:
1. I started out trying a Zenith Silver Sensor. Not much luck - I get reception, then it gets pixelated, the signal cuts out and TV says "no signal." Then the signal comes back but the problem will repeat again, over and over. Turned and repositioned the antenna without luck. What's going on? Is the Silver Sensor just no good?

2. Then I tried my 30-year-old rooftop antenna. Previously I had thought it was a VHF only model, but I seem to be getting UHF channels. 2.1 was coming in great at 5 p.m., but at 11 p.m. I was getting "No Signal." 5.1 came in OK both times, but no luck with 4.1, 7.1 or 11.1 - No signal on all of those. Any ideas as to what's going on?

Thanks so much!
David

The SS is the best indoor antenna you can get but it doesn't match what an outdoor antenna can do. Your rooftop antenna may still be good, but I'll bet it's not aimed properly and the connectors may be no good. You may want to have a pro come in and clean up the wiring for you if you're not comfortable on the roof.
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post #5582 of 17385 Old 12-28-2005, 06:38 PM
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WNET does not have a local HD feed. NJN also carries the national feed but only from 8:00pm to Midnight

http://www.thirteen.org/watchHD/



Quote:
Originally Posted by SRFast View Post

What is the purpose of this? TWC-NYC carries all the local HD channels except WB, UPN and NJN. There is PBS-HD, but it is the national feed. If your in-laws don't have an onboard ATSC/HD tuner on their set, the are out of luck because the TWC STBs cannot be used for OTA programming.

I've had TWC since 1985 and have NEVER a complete cable TV outage, so your concerns are unwarranted. If you still want to install a roof antenna, 99% of the TVs on the market have multi antenna input capability (ANT1/ANT2).

Hope this helps...JL

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post #5583 of 17385 Old 12-28-2005, 06:47 PM
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Anyone else "Getting" WNYE-DT (pbs 25???) over the last few days? I happened to check a few days ago....and I had no signal. Then this AM at about 6am I happened to flip by again....and I had a lockable signal (Yoga program). Did they "up" their power....or are/were they in testing mode??

I'm in Central NJ and I picked it up on my CM4228 roof mounted antenna with a CM pre-amp (it's been so darn long....7775??) via my D* Hughes e86 STB.
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post #5584 of 17385 Old 12-29-2005, 06:00 PM
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I ran a scan on my Accurian tonight,got 24-1,which is apparently WNYE 25(never was able to receive it before)so it's quite possible they upped their power.
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post #5585 of 17385 Old 12-31-2005, 09:08 AM
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Like everyone else I'm frustrated that I can't watch thirteen's programming on DTV, let alone in HD. I live just a few miles West of Newark, and while my analog reception is lousy, digital reception is generally good. Just not the same shows.

So I was cautiosly optimistic when looking at the channel listings at titantv which shows WNETDT3 channel 13.3 as rebroadcasting the analog lineup. But alas, when I went to my TV I found it was still showing "World."

Is there anything new on Thirteen's web site about OTA broadcasts? No of course, not on their digital page they list all the cable channels. But click on "learn more" and there is a link to an "HDTV Survey."

Fill out the survey, tell them you want OTA digital broadcasts of the same shows they broadcast in analog.

(I tried to include the actual links but it seems I'm not senior enough for that.)
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post #5586 of 17385 Old 12-31-2005, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckran View Post

Like everyone else I'm frustrated that I can't watch thirteen's programming on DTV

Not EVERYONE else. I could not care about this. PBS-HD has anything I want to see and shows them more often than 13 does. The SD content does not matter to me; analog is fine for that stuff. I honestly don't see what I am missing.
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post #5587 of 17385 Old 12-31-2005, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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The the last couple of days I haven't been able to get audio on either 4-1 or 4-2. I've tried deleting and re-adding the station but still no luck.

I have an older (5+ years) Zenith but since the other NY HD stations are still coming in I wonder if it's a problem with NBC.

Any suggesions or comments?

Thanks.

C
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post #5588 of 17385 Old 12-31-2005, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm - maybe a PSIP problem? I noticed tonight that I'm now getting 4-4 in addition to 4-1 and 4-2 (but none of them with sound). 4-4 is a stretched, very low rez picture. I have no idea what it's supposed to be.

Does NBC ever look at this thread?

Thanks.
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post #5589 of 17385 Old 01-01-2006, 09:25 AM
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There does seem to be something different about WNBC-DT PSIP data. As I mentioned in a previous post, Ch 28 is not remapping to 4.1, 4.2, etc. on my Accurian box. All other DTV stations ( with the exception of CH53 which is all screwed up) remap properly. I can see 4.1 if enter Ch 28 manually on the remote which comes up as 28.1, but it wont find it if I rescan.

They seem to have been playing with their PSIP with the addition of 4.4 recently, so maybe they messed up something else in the process and dont realize it?

It would be nice if the local broadcasters did take a look at this thread once in a while and see how their signals are actually being received in the field! Just take WCBS-DT's 10 dB too high audio level as an example!
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post #5590 of 17385 Old 01-01-2006, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the Channel 4 website doesn't list any technical staff in their email list, so I sent information about my problem to their investigative unit, with a reference to this URL. I don't know if this will help, but if nothing else the unit should be able to contact NBC tech staff.

T
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post #5591 of 17385 Old 01-01-2006, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondesign View Post


It would be nice if the local broadcasters did take a look at this thread once in a while and see how their signals are actually being received in the field! Just take WCBS-DT's 10 dB too high audio level as an example!

CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now.
I do give them credit however, for the best picture during HD football games. I don't know if its just me but their picture seems noticabley better than ABC or Fox. Keep up the good work guys!

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post #5592 of 17385 Old 01-01-2006, 05:56 PM
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Since 4:00PM on 12/24/05 I cannot receive FOX (chan #5). All the NFL games now appear on ESPN but my STB reports no signal on channel 5.

I am picking up all the other local channels as always!
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post #5593 of 17385 Old 01-01-2006, 09:20 PM
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[quote=Phil Hightech]CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]

It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, they must like it that way.

I went as far as contacting the Dolby Rep from the NYC area to try and get all the area broadcasters to standardize their audio levels. ( Dolby makes the digital audio encoders used at all the stations) He was well aware of the situation and was going to arrange a meeting to discuss the problem with the local station engineers. That was almost a year ago, and there has been absolutely no change!

Part of the problem lies in the way that the DTV audio levels are set. According to the Dolby AC-3 standard which is incorporated into the ATSC system, audio level is actually encoded into the program data stream by the program producer. That means that basically the producer of a program or commercial can make his dialog audio level as loud as he wants, with the broadcaster having only limited ability to adjust the level.

So, it may not actually be up to the local station to determine how loud his audio sounds to the DTV viewer. I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.
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post #5594 of 17385 Old 01-02-2006, 03:00 AM
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[quote=mondesign]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Hightech View Post

CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]

It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, they must like it that way.


I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.

Let us assume the stations do nothing but take the network digital stream and pump it out over the air. In this case CBS New York still needs to match its local program audio to the insane high level. A search of other local broadcast threads would show if others have noted the high level.
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post #5595 of 17385 Old 01-02-2006, 02:42 PM
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[quote=mondesign]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Hightech View Post

CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]

It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, they must like it that way.

I went as far as contacting the Dolby Rep from the NYC area to try and get all the area broadcasters to standardize their audio levels. ( Dolby makes the digital audio encoders used at all the stations) He was well aware of the situation and was going to arrange a meeting to discuss the problem with the local station engineers. That was almost a year ago, and there has been absolutely no change!

Part of the problem lies in the way that the DTV audio levels are set. According to the Dolby AC-3 standard which is incorporated into the ATSC system, audio level is actually encoded into the program data stream by the program producer. That means that basically the producer of a program or commercial can make his dialog audio level as loud as he wants, with the broadcaster having only limited ability to adjust the level.

So, it may not actually be up to the local station to determine how loud his audio sounds to the DTV viewer. I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.


I would be surprised if adjusting/limiting/compressing the audio level before broadcast is that difficult. I use a program called AC3filter to adjust the audio stream levels (on the fly) in my HTPC before sending to the receiver. Since ATSC broadcasting is so new, I think they just haven't reached the chapter in the owner's manual on Setting the Audio Level All the other broadcasters seem to have it right. Perhaps they just want to be the loudest signal out there. Remember WCBS FM with all that echo and compression. Maybe they transferred the engineer from CBS FM (when they switched to the JACK format) to WCBS-DT! LOL
But seriously, I am going to complain to them as well.
-Phil

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post #5596 of 17385 Old 01-02-2006, 07:45 PM
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Phil Hightech,

If you or anyone else contacts WCBS-DT about their high audio level, please also discuss their incorrect handling of their 5.1-channel audio. Like WABC-DT, which has been doing the same thing for a long time, they insert the two channels of their local stereo signal into only the left and right front channels of the 5.1-channel signal leaving the other four channels empty. This gives a hollow sounding signal that is not comfortable to listen to and prevents receivers from switching to Dolby Prologic to derive a center and surround channel. They should either convert the stereo signal to a proper 5.1-channel signal and insert it into all 6 channels or switch to 2-channel Dolby Digital audio. WNBC-DT handles this correctly (except that they use 3-channels which also works fine).

WCBS-DTs local signal is more like 12 to 13 db louder than other channels. The CBS network signal is approximately 7 db louder than other channels. I think the stations won't really care until a majority of viewers are watching their digital channels.

Cynthia
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post #5597 of 17385 Old 01-02-2006, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CynKennard View Post

please also discuss their incorrect handling of their 5.1-channel audio. ....only the left and right front channels of the 5.1-channel signal leaving the other four channels empty.

Cynthia

I can't count how many times I have run up to my center channel thinking it was broken!

So who we gonna call?
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post #5598 of 17385 Old 01-03-2006, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Problems with CBS-DT were reported long before I started this thread, although most of them were about the irritating difference between the HD volume compared to locally inserted SD-upconverted ads.

Since WCBS' technical people read (or at least used to read) the thread--and were very responsive in dealing with problems--I can only assume that the volume difference is due to a management directive. Perhaps when local commercials suddenly blare from their sets, the suits hear only the ka-ching of revenue, and not the clacks and curses as local listners fumble for their remotes and cuss at the blaring sound...

C
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post #5599 of 17385 Old 01-03-2006, 01:11 PM
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ABC-DT's volume is too low and stuck in 5.1 mode 24x7!
That is just as bad as CBS being too high.
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post #5600 of 17385 Old 01-03-2006, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpto View Post


Since WCBS' technical people read (or at least used to read) the thread--and were very responsive in dealing with problems--I can only assume that the volume difference is due to a management directive. Perhaps when local commercials suddenly blare from their sets, the suits hear only the ka-ching of revenue, and not the clacks and curses as local listners fumble for their remotes and cuss at the blaring sound...

C

I used to have CBS- HD as the default start up channel... it was so LOUD I changed to NBC HD...now I surf up through the HD channels and usually find something good to watch before getting back to CBS....if this behavior catches on it can't be good for the CBS ratings.
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post #5601 of 17385 Old 01-04-2006, 04:19 PM
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has anybody in northern new jersey (close to paramus, bergenfield area) had any experience with using winegard gs1100 to ge OTA hd signal?

I need help in aiming my winegard gs1100 installed. how to you point the antenna to the tower? should the "bat wing" be aligned in the direction of the station or should it face the station perpendicularly.... thanks much.

tungaw

The best is yet to come......
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post #5602 of 17385 Old 01-04-2006, 05:04 PM
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haven't be able to receive WNBC-DT for days now.The plus side to that is I haven't seen that craptastic weather channel or 4.4 either,lol.
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post #5603 of 17385 Old 01-04-2006, 05:27 PM
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Don't forget those wonderful and highly rated shows on 4.1.

Your loss is your gain!

Gary
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post #5604 of 17385 Old 01-05-2006, 04:38 AM
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I just got a RCA HDTV tuner on loan, and the only local channels I haven't been able to receive are WNBC-DT (28) and WNYE-DT (24), even though I'm only 5.2 resp. 1.1 miles from the transmission towers. All other channels come in at strengths between 80 and 95, which should be sufficient. At first I thought this might have to do with my antenna setup, even though analog channel 25 comes in fine. WNBC-DT shows me program information, but no picture: the tuner reports weak signal.

Seems unbelievable a major network like NBC wouldn't be able to stay on air... I guess, that is welcome to DTV broadcasts

-Geert
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post #5605 of 17385 Old 01-05-2006, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Not surprising - the WNBC consumer help people ignored the email I sent them asking for help with their own station.

Meanwhile, it's been over a week since my set's tuner has received audio on NBC-DT. The problem seems to have started about the time they added 4-4.

I guess if I can't contact them I'll file a complaint with the FCC - not that I suspect it will help either. Still, I'd think that a station broadcasting over public airways with a signal that is not (I suspect) totally standards-compliant must be doing less than serving the public.

Thanks.

Rick
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post #5606 of 17385 Old 01-06-2006, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Lococco View Post

haven't be able to receive WNBC-DT for days now.The plus side to that is I haven't seen that craptastic weather channel or 4.4 either,lol.

Are you having the reception problem with the Radio Shack Accurian? I still cant find WNBC-DT on the Accurian when I scan, although it is channel mapping to 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4 on the Samsung and Zenith receivers I have.
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post #5607 of 17385 Old 01-06-2006, 06:34 PM
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yes,I'm using the Accurian,on my most recent scan a few minutes ago,28.1,etc,and 4.1,etc don't show up,but I can watch them because they were stored in the memory on previous scans.Reception on WNBC-DT resumed for me early on Thursday.
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post #5608 of 17385 Old 01-09-2006, 10:09 AM
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Does anyone know the origin of the programming on 13.1 and 51.5? Is one of them the PBS HD feed (if not always in HD)? Where does the other one originate? Does anyone know why the programming on 51.5 is repeated for 7 days?
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post #5609 of 17385 Old 01-09-2006, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLM View Post

Does anyone know the origin of the programming on 13.1 and 51.5? Is one of them the PBS HD feed (if not always in HD)? Where does the other one originate? Does anyone know why the programming on 51.5 is repeated for 7 days?

IIRC, 13-1 is the PBS HD national feed...and 51-5/43-5/8-5 are the local NJN HD feed (with a seemingly less significant set of shows).

Anyone else "lose" 13-1:3 digital over the weekend? Everytime I checked over the weekend I had NO SIGNAL on the subchannels. Weird. ??
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post #5610 of 17385 Old 01-11-2006, 08:26 AM
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Anyone in the Rockland County area (Spring Valley zip 10977, or Chestnut Ridge 10952)?
How good is your reception OTA HD by channel?
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