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post #61 of 17853 Old 07-30-2003, 07:23 AM
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Any updates on when we'll get CBS and ABC in hi-def? Is early August still reasonable?
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post #62 of 17853 Old 07-30-2003, 09:59 AM
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Of course Ricky means NBC and ABC

It is looking more like Nov

Regards

All I ever want is everything
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post #63 of 17853 Old 07-30-2003, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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John - any source for the [additional] delay and what might be causing it?

Thanks.

Rick
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post #64 of 17853 Old 07-30-2003, 04:30 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by cpto
John - any source for the [additional] delay and what might be causing it?

Thanks.

Rick


Rick

Sorry for not being more precise I am relying on the info posted by Mr. Thomson on the previous page of this thread.

I am hoping November.

All I ever want is everything
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post #65 of 17853 Old 08-02-2003, 06:20 PM
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Did any one else have a problem?

Last night I had no problem getting reception from SW Nassau County. Even in the rain.
ie
2-1 100%
5-1 100%
5-2 100%
12-1 30%

Today
2-1 30%
5-1 0%
5-2 0%
12-1 0%

Perhaps they are working on the Broadcast antenna?
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post #66 of 17853 Old 08-02-2003, 06:28 PM
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I am getting a 94 on CBS an 88 on Fox and a whooping 55 for PIX

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post #67 of 17853 Old 08-03-2003, 09:39 AM
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Hey all. I've been lurking and learning for a while now and haven't had much to post about. I just picked up a silver sensor yesterday, since I don't want to commit to roof top antenna just yet. I have the panny D* hd receiver. Though I haven't subscribed to the hd package yet.

I live in Oceanside (s/w nassau county LI) and tried getting CBS last night. The show that was on was going in and out on a consistent basis. Is that due more to my distance to the ESB and/or antenna, or did the weather have anything to do with it. Or a combination?

Also, I noticed that scrolling through the guide, I didn't see a 4-1 channel set up, so I manually added channels and then there were additional 2, 4 ,5, channels that I added, but there weren't any more of the -1 channels. Will that be a problem in the future, and can I get back the default setup.

So is CBS the only NYC channel/network able to broadcast HD programming? I've read so many threads, that they've started to blend as one big mess. Any input would be helpful.
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post #68 of 17853 Old 08-03-2003, 06:07 PM
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Fab,

Try moving the antenna around a bit while you check the antenna strength. Here in Bergen County, 20 mi from ESB, raising the antenna to the top of a speaker gives me a lock on CBS with no dropouts.

For now, CBS is the only OTA true HDTV that I can receive in Mahwah, NJ. Fox locks in also, but that is not HD.

If that fails, look into an antenna pre-amp. The HDTV Hardware section has lots of good info.

As you you can see from the previous posts, OTA in the NYC area will be getting much better very soon! NBC and ABC coming to the ESB this fall!!
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post #69 of 17853 Old 08-03-2003, 06:12 PM
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Thanks Steve, I'll keep trying. This may sound stupid, but how do I check the antenna signal? I know how to check for the sat. signal. Is it in the same area? I guess I should check for myself before asking these questions. BTW, I really like ur hotels.
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post #70 of 17853 Old 08-04-2003, 02:26 AM
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Fab,

I don't have a Hughes HDTV receiver, but the antenna strength/adjustment screen should be under "system test" or "setup". You should be able to see the signal strength as you adjust the antenna. See the post by "Lightly" a few prior to this one, that should give you an idea of your potential signal strengths...your mileage may vary.

Also, WPIX (12-1) is broadcasting at low power, but you'll need an antenna that covers VHF for that, your antenna is UHF only.

Thanks to cpto for keeping this thread for NYC area OTA ...we should be seeing more activity in this thread as we head towards fall!

(thanks for the thoughts about "my" hotels!...I only wish it were me! )
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post #71 of 17853 Old 08-05-2003, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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There have been a lot of people in the NJ area (including me) that have more problems with CBS than FOX in inclement weather.

I know that CBS is at a higher frequency than fox (don't know about the effective radiated power though), but does anyone know what the net effect is? I also have the same problem with Philadelphia stations - the lower channels come through better than the higher ones.

I saw a map on CBS a couple of years ago that showed the estimated coverage area for DT-56. Is there any ready source for the other NY channels and the returning ones?

Thanks.

Rick
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post #72 of 17853 Old 08-05-2003, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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A couple of years ago Stark electronics was selling a CM parabolic 8-foot antenna for fringe reception. I was hoping that the gain might help make up for rain / fog / snow fade from WCBS but the antenna doesn't appear to be available any more.

Does any one have experience with this antenna, know where it might be found, or why it wouldn't help reception?

Thanks.

Rick
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post #73 of 17853 Old 08-05-2003, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I received this very nice and thorough response from nitewatchman and am posting it here for you to enjoy. It's not too often we here get such a thorough response to a question.

Rick

Hello,

Saw your post asking about the parabolic UHF Dish antenna, and thought I'd reply via PM, as I'm not in your area -- Channel Master used to make these in I believe 6' and 7' diameter versions, but they have been discontinued for quite a while. Certianly, a fine antenna(Considered the best UHF antenna "ever" by some), but, due to it's size and shape, it also requires a lot of "mounting support" due to wind/ice loading. There's a nice pic of one on a 85' tower in the pics near bottom of this page(7' Channel master dish photo -- You'll probably need to right click and choose "show picture" to see the pic):

http://www.oldtvguides.com/DXPhotos/

Concerning WCBS-DT 56, along the lines of what you mentioned on the thread, it is certianly the case that becasue of the shorter wavelength's involved, much more power is necessary for a station operating on Hi-UHF channels than is the case on lower frequenices in order to cover the same area, and also, these high frequencies are also more "sensitive" "signal propagation wise" to terrain and other "environmental factors" ...

For example, RF absorbtion by leaves would be much more of a problem on 56 than on lower UHF channels or, even moreso for the much longer wavelengths of VHF. Rain and wind can also be a factor on these high frequencies --- Now, these "environmental factors" aren't really a BIG issue(although terrain/building blockage of signal is a big issue), but if you're dealing with a weak signal coming from your antenna to begin with, a little issue can appear like a big issue. (keep in mind, in nearly all cases, the "signal meters" on our receivers don't measure "signal strength" , it's a sort of "signal quality" meter, which is implemented on the "digital datastream" "side" of the receiver, not the "RF Signal" portion of the receiver ... For this reason, a actual, fairly weak signal, just over the "threshold" needed for good DTV reception can produce High readings on our receiver's meters.

It's also the case that some receving antennas don't do as good of a job on the higher UHF channels. VHF/UHF combo antennas, typcially don't do well on Hi-UHF, for example, although I have had good luck with hi-UHF local DT's here with the RS VU210 antenna, a a LARGE VHF/UHF Combo - which has also been discontinued. Also, Feedline incurs more signal loss the higher the frequency.

Really though, more "reasonably sized", and conventional UHF antennas such as the CM4248 Yagi, CM4228 Bowtie, and some of the European hi-gain antennas from Blake, Televes and Triax are pretty close to the performance wise to the "big dish", and one of these, outside up nice and high with a hi-gain/low noise preamp such as the CM7777 would come very close, if not exceeding the "Big dish's" performance.

Follows is info WCBS-DT's technical parameters from FCC CDBS database, concerning their currently licensed facilities. :

I pulled up WCBS-DT's current Technical paramenters, and given their TX antenna height on ESB(1345FT Above Sea Level), Non-directional antenna, and 349KW ERP power level for their licensed facility(According to FCC data, this is what they should be operating with unless their having Temporary technical problems that don't require issuance of a STA by FCC, or, to meet RF exposure regulations if anyone working on the ESB antennas). You might want to check with them to make sure, on the power, though. One of their Engineer's did start/post a thread recently in local AVS area, asking for reception reports.

If this is the power/antenna height they are operating with however, I'd think they should do a decent job getting out to as far away as around 50 Miles or so, although, the "fringe area guy" at 50 Miles+ from the ESB would likely want a very good antenna setup for UHF, as high as possible, with no terrain/signal blockage issues invloved....

As a bit of a comparision, In our area, for instance, we have a DT on 58 running 290KW ERP, which is being received well on a attic antenna from almost 60 miles distant! Their antenna height, while only about 1000 feet above average terrain, is over 2000FT above sea level.(Most of the terrain in this area, however, is between 600-1100 Feet above sea level).


WCBS-TV NY NEW YORK USA (Digital)

Licensee: CBS BROADCASTING INC.
Service Designation: DT "Full Service" TV Station or Application (digital)

Channel 56 (722-728 MHz) Licensed
File No.: BLCDT -19981026KG Facility ID No: 9610
CDBS Application ID No.: 276124

Antenna Structure Registration Number (ASRN): 1007048


40 ° 44' 54.00" Latitude Zone: 1
73 ° 59' 10.00" Longitude (NAD27) Frequency Offset: None
Polarization: Horizontally Polarized (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 349. kW ERP
Ant. Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT): 397.0 meters HAAT
Ant. Radiation Center Above Mean Sea Level: 410.0 meters RCAMSL
Ant. Radiation Center Above Ground Level: 395. meters RCAGL

Not directional
Not in a Border Zone

-----------------------------------

Anyhow, hope some of this helps, I enjoy looking at the NYC OTA thread, and I hope NYC can get the OTA situation back to "normal" as soon as possible. I know the NYC broadcasters are doing the best they can, but I can't help but think how much different things might be if we were in the 1960's or 70's, before cableTV ... Still, though, I may have missed it, but I'm surprised I haven't seen a Major News story concerning the loss of the WTC OTA transmitters.

Anyhow, take it easy,

Jeff in Middletown, Ohio
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post #74 of 17853 Old 08-06-2003, 04:46 PM
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I have a cm4228, cm 7777 and rotor, just hooked everything up last night, im , located in sheepshead bay, brooklyn, about 12 miles from the esb. Eventhough the 4228 is a uhf only antenna, i still pick up all the vhf channels, the upper channels are the strongest. What also is very strange, just about any where i have the 4228 pointed, it will lock on my local dt channels, Isnt that amazingly odd ? Im running hd200, and dtc 100, and both are reacting the same, getting vhf, and, no matter where the antenna is pointed, it locks on 2.1,5.1,5.2,11.1,11.2,12.1,75.1,75.2,40.1 and 53.Has any1 else experienced anything like this?The antenna is mounted on a one family house on a 10 foot pole.
Stan

adios
Stan
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post #75 of 17853 Old 08-07-2003, 09:55 AM
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Stan,

11.1, 11.2, 12.1, 12.2, 75.1, 75.2 are all the same channel (WPIX).
Out in Plainview (with no rotor) I get all of the WPIXs, 2.1(CBS), 5.1(FOX), 5.2(UPN-low quality broadcast), 22.1 (WLIW-HD), 22.2 (WLIW-SD).

You must be so close to the signals, you don't need to point the antenna.

Joe
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post #76 of 17853 Old 08-07-2003, 10:41 AM
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Seems that way Joe, i was kinda of shocked at first. I have minor problems with my rotor, as it seems to lock after a few turns clockwise, it, will always turn counter clockwise tho, major problem is even though it is not moving , the display is showing it moving to new setting, which throws the whole dam rotor off, and, i have no idea where its pointed at. Only thing that fixs it, is i go to my 1 preset for nyc[ highest signal] and do a synch, and that corrects the problem for a short period.I have to go back on the roof and make sure everything is properly alighned, im using a 5 foot pole for the dish, which is sitting on a 10 ' pole for the main mount.Also USING TB 105 SUPPORT BEARING, WHICH, may be out of whack.Any1 using a 4228 with a 5 ' pole and no tb 105 ?
Stan

adios
Stan
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post #77 of 17853 Old 08-07-2003, 05:40 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JoeCraw
Stan,

11.1, 11.2, 12.1, 12.2, 75.1, 75.2 are all the same channel (WPIX).
Out in Plainview (with no rotor) I get all of the WPIXs, 2.1(CBS), 5.1(FOX), 5.2(UPN-low quality broadcast), 22.1 (WLIW-HD), 22.2 (WLIW-SD).

You must be so close to the signals, you don't need to point the antenna.

Joe

Do all of these broadcast from the ESB? I'm able to get CBS, FOX, and UPN,
but none of the others.
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post #78 of 17853 Old 08-08-2003, 08:17 AM
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yes they do, but not at full power yet
Stan

adios
Stan
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post #79 of 17853 Old 08-08-2003, 01:21 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dapope
yes they do, but not at full power yet

Correct, except for WLIW, which is from Long Island.
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post #80 of 17853 Old 08-08-2003, 06:46 PM
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I no longer receive wpix's 75.01 & 02, are they still broadcasting these? I do receive wb's 11.01 & .02 also 12.01. a comment about fox, I thought there bernie mack show and there new show wanda looked really good


john

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post #81 of 17853 Old 08-08-2003, 07:29 PM
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yes John, they're still on
Stan

adios
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post #82 of 17853 Old 08-08-2003, 11:45 PM
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If I could stick my head out the window, and turn sideways, I would see the ESB unobstructed, as I live 4 block and 5 avenues away. However, the window is ceiling to floor and does not open. Would an indoor antennae be sufficient to pull in HD, or since I am at an angle will my own apartment wall block me.
I have time warner cable now, but since I cannot record HD from that, I am hoping to build an HTPC, if that would work better. But if I cannot use an indoor antenae, I would need to wait for another option. Thanks for any help.
---Matt
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post #83 of 17853 Old 08-09-2003, 06:51 AM
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Some in Manhattan report picking up ESB stations via reflections from other buildings. I can with very careful positioning of a Silver Sensor antenna (inches matter), pointing it about 70 degrees northward from the ESB. Image stability isn't the best (wouldn't want to record), but each site is unique. As more OTA's begin this fall, 8-VSB for recording may improve at some locations. A building master UHF/VHF antenna could help. Of course, about that time TWC may roll out HD-PVR converters, too. -- John
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post #84 of 17853 Old 08-09-2003, 11:57 PM
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Finally signed up after years of lurking.

Since our cable service is very rudimentary and lacking features (any other NuVisions subscribers out there?) I went out and got me a Samsung T151 from J&R after they agreed to give me a break on the price. Since then I've been trying with very little success to get some DTV action going. We're all the way on the west side at around 70th on the 23rd floor with a W/NW view of the river and the GWB as well as an E/SE view of Central Park and downtown, and so far the two RS antenna's I've tried have only been able to pick up WCBS-DT on 56, with a lot of tweaking and wishing and praying. The models I've tried with were the 15-1838 (has a fine tuning dial on it, very frustrating to work with) and the 15-1880; both have preamps although the latter seems to have a higher gain. When checking signal strength it is clear how jumpy the reception is, going back and forth between 6-7 and 0, apparently also influenced by where I am in relation to the antenna.

The home theater and receiver are located on the west side of the apartment, with the rest of the building (and many other high rises as well) between the antenna and ESB. Since I am pretty sure there is no central antenna system in this building it seems to me that I am stuck with trying to get some sort of indoor antenna to work. Has anyone on the UWS had any luck at all getting anything more than WCBS-DT to come in, or should I just give up right now and return all this stuff to the store? I really want my HDTV, especially considering the abysmal quality I get with the regular TV offering from our current (and only) cable service. Any opinions, tips or testimonials from fellow-UWS'ers would be immensely appreciated!

Thanks for listening.

-P-

P.S.: Interestingly enough, it seems that NuVisions is relaying some HDTV programming over their cable system, which the T151 is actually able to pick up when set to "IRC" mode in the channel scan menu option. The signal is not great, between 4 and 5 bars, but it has no dropouts and stays steady at that level. This way I can get WCBS (2-1), WNYW (5-1, 5-2) and WLIW (22-1, 22-2) but I would rather try with an antenna and be able to try for the other available stations.
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post #85 of 17853 Old 08-10-2003, 02:07 AM
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Thanks John.
Sadly my building discontinued maintaining the wiring from the roof antenae, as most everyone in the building has cable TV. I am hoping that they may re-use it, but from what I hear its the wiring in the walls that somehow went bad. I will likely get an indoor antenae soon, but will wait to see when ABC/NBC broadcast OTA, or if Time Warner will be forthcoming with an HD PVR.
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post #86 of 17853 Old 08-10-2003, 08:17 AM
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pepijn,
Welcome to the forums. You might enter your location at antennaweb.org and see what NJ stations are nearby. If your windows don't block too much UHF/VHF there are various station options.

Yes, my Silver Sensor reception varies when I'm near it, and I once tinkered with a magazine-size chunk of aluminum foil as a reflection blocker. Helps at times. -- John
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post #87 of 17853 Old 08-10-2003, 11:02 AM
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if i remember pre-season football was in hd on cbs last year. would anyone know why it isn't today.


john

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post #88 of 17853 Old 08-10-2003, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jscnyc
if i remember pre-season football was in hd on cbs last year.

I believe that is incorrect. I do not recall CBS ever doing a pre season game in HD.
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post #89 of 17853 Old 08-10-2003, 01:11 PM
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you are right.thnx

john

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post #90 of 17853 Old 08-19-2003, 11:13 AM
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I've been in a dead zone lately out in Northport. CBS has constant dropouts. I can't even pull WLIW-22 (do they broadcast in a 360 degree direction?). PBS out of Bridgeport drops in/out all the time. ABC-10 NH is well, the same.

As far as NYC, I presume it is related to the work going on? I use Dish, thinking about checking them out for CBS. Been dying a slow death since 9/11 round' here.
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