New York, NY - OTA - Page 503 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTVintermods View Post

Will also help in CT across from LI (same coverage problems).

I don't understand so does this mean WCBS will be having WLNY here? I already can't get WLNY as it is now so I don't miss much but sometimes they do have older shows I would like to see.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rChaz View Post

Since CBS started testing their 2.2 subchannel a couple weeks ago I started having problems receiving TV Guide On Screen data for EPGs (broadcast in NYC by CBS.) First I lost the TV Guide analog data feed obtained from a DTVPal+ digital to analog converter box (in guide mode.) Then on a separate device, the DTVPal DVR, I lost the TV Guide digital feed to the electronic programming guide. For the DVR EPG, the TV Guide logo stopped displaying & I just have limited PSIP EPG info. For the digital to analog converter box in guide mode, there is no data stream at all.

Does anyone else have this issue, and does anyone have advice for contacting the CBS engineering/support teams?

A few other CBS O&O's have also dropped TVGOS. It apparently causes a problem. Here is what the chief in Detroit said, back in the beginning of October:
Quote:


The TV Guide encoders have been taken off line due to problems they are causing in the WWJ-TV transmission.

We do not have a timetable for the return of the service.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused


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Old 12-16-2011, 07:39 PM
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SubaroB4:
Probably, although I cannot speak for WCBS. I believe their intention is to provide solid WCBS coverage using WLNY in northern LI and southern CT where WCBS coverage from the Empire State Bldg is now poor. Even if they succeed in upgrading their ESB facility it still would be an excellent idea to use WLNY because it will provide a great extension to WCBS. There's no downside here.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:44 PM
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If WCBS were to use WLNY in its problem reception areas, it would be by way of a sub-channel in SD.

It would help, but the viewers would continue to be deprived of a WCBS HD signal.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post

If WCBS were to use WLNY in its problem reception areas, it would be by way of a sub-channel in SD.

It would help, but the viewers would continue to be deprived of a WCBS HD signal.

Not if CBS chose to follow the ABC model
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:02 AM
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Not if CBS chose to follow the ABC model

Don't give them any ideas, please!
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by StudioTech View Post

Don't give them any ideas, please!

To clarify, I meant that CBS upon acquisition could upgrade the WLNY-TV signal to carry both WLNY-TV and WCBS-TV in HD, similar to the ABC model.

I see no merit to doing the reverse for two important reasons:

1. CBS apparently has already settled on CBSNY+ being delivered over WCBS-TV 2-2.

2. WLNY-TV already has very good Pay-TV penetration.

In addition, the signal is presently replicated over WLNY-CD Mineola and W27CD Stamford, the former has been confirmed on the air and the latter is presumably on the air and has an outstanding CP to construct a DTV translator on Channel 43. Whether these channels will continue to relay WLNY-TV after acquisition remains uncertain, as does ownership of these channels for that matter.

I do not see any legitimate reason to further adulterate the bitrate situation on WCBS-TV once 2-2 becomes active.

However, the WLNY-TV signal, which is presently a singular 3:4 SD feed and a mobile DTV feed, could be substantially improved while simultaneously providing an added valued service to certain parts of Long Island and portions of Connecticut whose OTA TV viewers presently are deprived of reliable service from Channel 33 in New York due to short-spacing with Channel 33 in Hartford.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:19 AM
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WABC uses 720p for its transmission of its "Dual HD" signals.

WCBS transmits at 1080i, only 7 stations in the country use a combination of 1080i and 720p for "Dual HD" (thank you Trip) and they are all in small markets - I imagine with good reason!

Quietly, there are many at Channel 2 who are upset with the addition of 2.2 and its expected degradation of 2.1's gorgious signal.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:33 AM
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Let's hope WCBS is experimenting statistical multiplexing of 2.2 when 2.1 is transmitting HD sports and using two 50" screens side-by-side. That will show the tradeoff. My view is that you can win one or the other, not both.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rChaz View Post

Since CBS started testing their 2.2 subchannel a couple weeks ago I started having problems receiving TV Guide On Screen data for EPGs (broadcast in NYC by CBS.) First I lost the TV Guide analog data feed obtained from a DTVPal+ digital to analog converter box (in guide mode.) Then on a separate device, the DTVPal DVR, I lost the TV Guide digital feed to the electronic programming guide. For the DVR EPG, the TV Guide logo stopped displaying & I just have limited PSIP EPG info. For the digital to analog converter box in guide mode, there is no data stream at all.

Does anyone else have this issue, and does anyone have advice for contacting the CBS engineering/support teams?

Yes I checked with my Aunt and she also LOST the TVGUIDE logo which means NO TVGoS

Does anyone know if CBS has fixed their TVGOS stream or is it still down. I do not want to walk her through a factory reset if CBS TVGOS is still down.

Unfortunately the dish DVR box that she has stops looking for TVGOS signal after 3 days. Which I feel is totally stupid.

Thanks guys,

Happy Holidays!
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post


Does anyone know if CBS has fixed their TVGOS stream or is it still down. I do not want to walk her through a factory reset if CBS TVGOS is still down.

I haven't heard otherwise.

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Old 12-18-2011, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

I haven't heard otherwise.

Ok Because I will have a hard time explaining to my aunt on how to do it. She is not great at electronics. Also the 1+ hour drive is not easy.

So I would like to wait till I know for sure that CBS put it back up.

Do we know if they took it down permanently or just to work on new sub-channel?

Has anyone contacted the engineers? Would anyone have that contact info and I will also send out an email.

No TVGOS creates many problems for the dish box my Aunt has. Forget about 1 week worth of program info. The correct time goes out of whack with PSIP

As I stated her box stops looking after 3 days. I have no idea what kind of fool programed it that way. So even if CBS is back up. I would have no way of knowing. Till I did a factory reset.
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post


Do we know if they took it down permanently or just to work on new sub-channel?

It's not known if the removal of TVGOS is permanent at this time, but it's not related to the subchannel.

Quote:


Has anyone contacted the engineers?

See my comment from the 16th.

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Old 12-18-2011, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

It's not known if the removal of TVGOS is permanent at this time, but it's not related to the subchannel.

See my comment from the 16th.

Ok but that is Detroit correct?

What does that have to do with NY? I think it is just a coincidence that TVGOS goes down at the same time work is being preformed for new 2.2.

I would like to find CBS NY engineers contact info
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Ok but that is Detroit correct?

What does that have to do with NY?

Both stations are CBS owned and operated, not just affiliated stations. There are over 200 CBS affiliated stations across the country. CBS actually owns 16 of them, including WCBS in NYC and WWJ in Detroit. All CBS O&O's answer to the same management in NYC.

Quote:


I think it is just a coincidence that TVGOS goes down at the same time work is being preformed for new 2.2.

Yes, it is a just a coincidence.

In any event I'll ask my sources at CBS and see if there is any information available.

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Old 12-18-2011, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post


In any event I'll ask my sources at CBS and see if there is any information available.

That would be very much appreciated. I am the lead (only) tec for my Aunt. I helped her out to get her set with OTA. Since she only has OTA. TVGoS is very important to her.

Maybe if you tell your sources that the lack of TVGOS is affecting the elderly. We might get a faster response.

Thanks in advance
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:55 AM
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Does anybody know if Channel 11 has been doing any work these last couple of weeks? Last week reception was poorer than usual and now all of a sudden I am receiving it at 100% signal strength (something that I never have had happen before)? Please note that I am comparing signal strength on clear days with the same weather conditions and the leaves were all done falling a while back so that is why I just don't think that it is "atmospherics" or weather but I thought it was worth asking anyways. Happy holidays to all!
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:17 AM
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Telemundo has sub channels now 17.2
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by yobiworld View Post

Telemundo has sub channels now 17.2

Don't you mean 47.2?

Look at Posting #15056 on 12/15.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Does anyone know if CBS has fixed their TVGOS stream or is it still down.

I tried the Dish DTVPal DVR factory reset yesterday, just to be sure, and the TV Guide feed is still missing.

I also received an email response from the WCBS-TV Public Affairs Coordinator, who claims "I'm told that we no longer support this TV Guide information. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope this is not true, or at the minimum another local station such as PBS will pick this feed up. Rovi?
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rChaz View Post

I tried the Dish DTVPal DVR factory reset yesterday, just to be sure, and the TV Guide feed is still missing.

I also received an email response from the WCBS-TV Public Affairs Coordinator, who claims "I’m told that we no longer support this TV Guide information. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope this is not true, or at the minimum another local station such as PBS will pick this feed up. Rovi?

OMG that would be a disaster. Could you PM or post the e-mail or link. I would also like to contact them. I will also share the response.

Did they give NO reason to why?

NY is a major city and needs TVGOS

If true CBS just rendered DVR boxes for OTA as a doorstop. PSIP is terrible and you can not set up recording that way. 1 week is just about good enough

Has anyone contacted TVguide? Maybe they have an answer to what is going on. I will try to find contact info for them
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:49 AM
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Since wCBS 2-1 started messing with 2-2, the 2-1 suffers with too high signal fluctuation hitting bottom 0, giving pixelation - causing annoyance, short temper, reaching for Remote - see you maybe, God willing in few days
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rChaz View Post

I tried the Dish DTVPal DVR factory reset yesterday, just to be sure, and the TV Guide feed is still missing.

I also received an email response from the WCBS-TV Public Affairs Coordinator, who claims "I'm told that we no longer support this TV Guide information. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope this is not true, or at the minimum another local station such as PBS will pick this feed up. Rovi?

i have no idea if this is connected or not, but rovi, who owns tvgos pulled the tv guide widget from TV manufacturers (yahoo connected tv) last month. it had a statement saying that the owner had pulled the widget.

maybe rovi is rethinking their business model.

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Old 12-19-2011, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post

i have no idea if this is connected or not, but rovi, who owns tvgos pulled the tv guide widget from TV manufacturers (yahoo connected tv) last month. it had a statement saying that the owner had pulled the widget.

maybe rovi is rethinking their business model.


Well I guess I will e-mail rovi also. It would be a total shame if they no longer provide it via OTA. People like my aunt have no internet. So a pay TVGOS via the internet would not work.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rChaz View Post

I tried the Dish DTVPal DVR factory reset yesterday, just to be sure, and the TV Guide feed is still missing.

I also received an email response from the WCBS-TV Public Affairs Coordinator, who claims "I'm told that we no longer support this TV Guide information. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope this is not true, or at the minimum another local station such as PBS will pick this feed up. Rovi?


I got the same reply as you did. Must be a cut and paste. This is looking bad for TVGOS. Seems Digital went downhill.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:21 PM
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I can't understand the push into multicasting. Show me one O&O multicast that even generates a meaningful rating or profit. At least one could argue third party multicast "piggybacking" brings a guaranteed price.

NBC Non Stop in NY is worthless. I don't see a single compelling program, and I don't see advertisers lining up to buy spots (my guess is many of the spots were purchased last minute at a steep discount, or aired gratis as a "make good"). ABC's "LivWell" has even been made less relevant with "The Chew" and "The Revolution" airing on the main channel. Worse, WABC dedicates 2 sub-channels to it!

Antenna TV is probably the lone multicast on a major NY DMA affiliate worth watching. Even this multicast can't sell ad spots! I wonder when investors finally question the point of these stations, as they all seem to be money losers.

Sadly, I don't see bandwidth ever being returned to the primary channel. More than likely, the CTIA will benefit from the unused spectrum once they are willing to cozy up and pay the NAB their desired price.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DevOne View Post

I can't understand the push into multicasting. Show me one O&O multicast that even generates a meaningful rating or profit. At least one could argue third party multicast "piggybacking" brings a guaranteed price.

The technology now exists via Digital Broadcasting to air multiple streams over a dedicated spectrum swath that did not exist in an Analog Broadcast world. I agree with you that third-party content providers, such as Me-TV, TheCoolTV, Country Network, etc. generate a nominal source of revenue for a licensee and typically provides more eclectic and unique programming than that found on a major network O&O subchannel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevOne View Post

NBC Non Stop in NY is worthless. I don't see a single compelling program, and I don't see advertisers lining up to buy spots (my guess is many of the spots were purchased last minute at a steep discount, or aired gratis as a "make good"). ABC's "LivWell" has even been made less relevant with "The Chew" and "The Revolution" airing on the main channel. Worse, WABC dedicates 2 sub-channels to it!

Those are two new programs created as a financial decision by ABC, plain and simple. They are "making" money by saving money that went to producing two long running soap operas. And "General Hospital" will be the next casualty next year.

The typical major network O&O approach to their major-market stations so far has been to produce their own programming, typically lifestyle themed shows, that they hope will bolster and complement their network with wholesome content. The only problem - as you have correctly pointed out - is that these programs on their own are not compelling enough to generate much needed market demand.

Ad buys on these channels are usually either packaged with the primary channel or are the Per Inquiry (PI) type. And the competition for advertisers also comes from pay TV channels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevOne View Post

Antenna TV is probably the lone multicast on a major NY DMA affiliate worth watching. Even this multicast can't sell ad spots! I wonder when investors finally question the point of these stations, as they all seem to be money losers.

Sadly, I don't see bandwidth ever being returned to the primary channel. More than likely, the CTIA will benefit from the unused spectrum once they are willing to cozy up and pay the NAB their desired price.

Not sure I'm getting your point here. Which investors should question the relevance of subchannels? I would hope someone does not have their stock portfolio tied up exclusively in broadcast companies

And the CTIA cannot pay the NAB for unused spectrum. Spectrum is a federal resource held by the licensees and cannot be sold or transferred without consent from the licensing agency. It can, however, be leased.

Here's how I see it: The broadcast networks have two objectives at this time.

First: Protect their territory. This is why CBS is reluctantly adding the subchannel to WCBS-TV and other major market O&Os. The fcc has charged that there are too many "empty boxcars" on the TV broadcast airwaves. Examples of this are one stream in a 6 MHz. block (such as WCBS-TV and WLNY-TV), streams that carry 24/7 test-patterns, etc. Unfortunately, Washington has deemed picture quality as seemingly irrelevant. They contend that there exists a higher and better use for the spectrum, and that is to auction it to wireless phone companies, many of whom are politically connected. So, in order for broadcasters to justify their need to maintain the full 6 MHz. allocation they presently license, they have to "fill" these "empty boxcars". You may not like it, I may not like it. But the reality at the present time is that we either accept it or lose the entire boxcar. I don't believe government should dictate the content, quantity, or quality of content a broadcaster must transmit. And explicitly they aren't doing so. But they are doing exactly that through veiled suggestions.

Second: Present Compelling Content. This is what network broadcasters have failed to do and will have to do in the long run. These lifestyle channels are, in general, not presenting content that will encourage a surge in ad buys or audience interest. I have discussed this with people on occasion, and they convey a similar sentiment. I'm not suggesting the programming on a station like NonStop or Live Well isn't educational, needed or even interesting. But there is a reason they aren't generating a lot of interest amongst viewers.

The major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) have to take a drastically different approach to their major market broadcast subchannels very soon. Staying the present course may appeal to Washington, but it does not appeal to the average viewer or the sponsors. In order to grow their existing relationships with viewers and sponsors, the networks must change policy to allow third parties to program their subchannels. This is done in many smaller markets, and there is no reason it cannot be done in a major market. If the mindset is that a third party will compete against the primary, that is a flawed conclusion. Viewers will embrace the network for providing a valued broadcast service. The broadcaster will build favor, not lose it.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:29 AM
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Len -

Saw this post just now over on the Philly site and thought you might appreciate it -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=3455

Here's the thread for the backstory on it -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21360748

I've been away from this thread for awhile so I'm not current on your problem, but I think it's pretty much resolved now?

In any event, I found the information over there of some interest.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

It's not known if the removal of TVGOS is permanent at this time, but it's not related to the subchannel.

See my comment from the 16th.

I've been away from this thread for awhile but have visited the Philly site fairly often. I know that TVGOS went away from KYW some time ago and is apparently still gone. The bonus for me is that it allowed me to tune to KYW using my VOOM box, which has had a conflict with CBS stations for a couple of years or more.

I now can still tune to KYW using the VOOM, so it appears that TVGOS is still not back over there.

Am I to understand that CBS ch 2 also has now lost TVGOS?

Because when I first became aware of the KYW situation, and found out that I could use my VOOM to watch KYW, I did also try CBS ch 2 and was not able to tune to it on the VOOM. The conflict still existed.

The VOOM does not display TVGOS, so I never know if a station has it or doesn't.

So, if TVGOS is now gone from ch 2 in NYC, I'd like confirmation on that and if that's the case, I'll try tuning to it with the VOOM again and see if the conflict still exists.

I'm not absolutely sure that TVGOS is the source of the conflict with the VOOM and this little test might help inform me about that.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

Len -

Saw this post just now over on the Philly site and thought you might appreciate it -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=3455

Here's the thread for the backstory on it -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21360748

I've been away from this thread for awhile so I'm not current on your problem, but I think it's pretty much resolved now?

In any event, I found the information over there of some interest.

Thanks T-Max.

Currently Malibu lighting was contacted and acknowledged an RF problem with their LED lights and they were sending me replacements. That was about 4 days ago. Still waiting for the replacements. I'll let this forum know when I get them. Not sure if the weather will allow for an install anytime soon though if the ground gets frozen.
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