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post #15811 of 17372 Old 04-27-2012, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post

Broadcasters' interest in OTA will be motivated by the adoption of M/H -
transmission of signals to mobile devices.

That's truly the future of OTA broadcasting!

Sorry for being so clueless, but what does M/H mean?

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post #15812 of 17372 Old 04-27-2012, 07:14 AM
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M/H reception favors lower gain transmitting antenna on a lower tower in order to deliver the very strong signal required for solid M/H [Mobile/Hand-held]reception within the first few miles of the transmitting antenna. High gain TV transmit antenna on tall tower delivers very weak signal within 2 miles of the tower.
So moving from ESB to 1WTC for the purpose of better M/H reception would be a gross mistake without a new DTV std that supports SFN for M/H.
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post #15813 of 17372 Old 04-27-2012, 07:17 AM
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No problem, it's relatively new to me -

Mobile/Handheld - Smartphones, iPads, etc.
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post #15814 of 17372 Old 04-29-2012, 06:03 AM
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post #15815 of 17372 Old 04-30-2012, 05:41 AM
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I got a Winegard HD7696P antenna installed on a 16 foot mast (10 feet of the mast is above the roof line, it is a wall mount). I ran a 20 foot lead of Belden 1694A into my existing drop amp. Got excellent reception of all network channels in the NYC area. I have a small Sharp HDTV that has an Signal Strength readout for each channel. All channels are between 85% to 93% (not sure what the definition of 100% is on the TV readout, but all channels have great PQ). Basically I aimed the antenna due south, minor changes of about 5 degrees in rotation had no effect on signal strength. I also bought a Winegard AP-8275 pre-amp, but have not used it at all. Tested the signal strength between right off of the antenna and after going through the 8 branch drop amp I have (I only use 5 of the drops) and the signal strength is the same before and after the drop amp. From the stand point of reception I hope I am good.

I am now trying to understand what to do about grounding. I have a surge protector (a TII Series 212 that includes a ground block, was recommended by the place I got the drop amp from) before the drop amp on the coax, however, I am using the ground wire that Cablevision installed decades ago. It goes to an outdoor cold water faucet. I have been researching antenna grounding online and it is very confusing. Most diagrams seem to indicate the surge protector and the mast should be grounded to the house electrical service ground stake. My problem is my electrical service comes in underground and I have no idea where the service is grounded. I am leaning towards driving in a ground stake and grounding the mast and surge protector to the stake using number 8 wire. Any help on this grounding stuff would be very welcomed.

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post #15816 of 17372 Old 04-30-2012, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALP View Post

I got a Winegard HD7696P antenna installed on a 16 foot mast (10 feet of the mast is above the roof line, it is a wall mount). I ran a 20 foot lead of Belden 1694A into my existing drop amp. Got excellent reception of all network channels in the NYC area. I have a small Sharp HDTV that has an Signal Strength readout for each channel. All channels are between 85% to 93% (not sure what the definition of 100% is on the TV readout, but all channels have great PQ). Basically I aimed the antenna due south, minor changes of about 5 degrees in rotation had no effect on signal strength. I also bought a Winegard AP-8275 pre-amp, but have not used it at all. Tested the signal strength between right off of the antenna and after going through the 8 branch drop amp I have (I only use 5 of the drops) and the signal strength is the same before and after the drop amp. From the stand point of reception I hope I am good.

I am now trying to understand what to do about grounding. I have a surge protector (a TII Series 212 that includes a ground block, was recommended by the place I got the drop amp from) before the drop amp on the coax, however, I am using the ground wire that Cablevision installed decades ago. It goes to an outdoor cold water faucet. I have been researching antenna grounding online and it is very confusing. Most diagrams seem to indicate the surge protector and the mast should be grounded to the house electrical service ground stake. My problem is my electrical service comes in underground and I have no idea where the service is grounded. I am leaning towards driving in a ground stake and grounding the mast and surge protector to the stake using number 8 wire. Any help on this grounding stuff would be very welcomed.

Using the old cablevision ground block and wire should be fine. Cable companies ground to cold water if no solid electrical conduit is available.
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post #15817 of 17372 Old 04-30-2012, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfan View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh46Fx-y-6A

Wow I would ecstatic to watch that happen in person!
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post #15818 of 17372 Old 04-30-2012, 07:50 PM
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Don't be so quick to use an amp. You are not far, so if your location is at least decent, you may not need the amp-better a slightly bigger antenna and no amp. I run five devices off one antenna with no amp (six counting the stereo). I'm one or two towns north of you and with a fringe antenna, a bit more than I need, no amp. Amps bring in another layer of complication. Your signal strength should be adequate without.

In Vienna we sit, in late night cafe. Straight Connection, on T.E.E.
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post #15819 of 17372 Old 05-01-2012, 04:56 AM
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Alp,

If you get great reception without the preamp then return it.

Also grounding of an outdoor antenna from my research is very important. You do need to ground 2 items. First you need to ground the MAST by running wire from the mast to a metal rod driven into the ground. You can buy the wire, rod and appropriate clamps at your local hardware store. Just be very careful where you drive the rod into the ground that you don't hit a gas line etc.

Next you need to ground the coax before it comes into the house. You can use the Cablevision ground for the coax.

There is information on the internet you can easily find that will tell you how important this grounding is and how to do it. Your surge protectors in the house are just one level of protection that you need.
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post #15820 of 17372 Old 05-01-2012, 04:59 AM
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Malibu Lighting emailed me that they are shipping new patio lights that their engineer has fixed for RF emissions. I expect them to arrive this week. As soon as my neighbor installs them I will post whether the RF interference issue has been fixed.
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post #15821 of 17372 Old 05-01-2012, 05:29 AM
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Quote:


First you need to ground the MAST by running wire from the mast to a metal rod driven into the ground.

There are permissible alternatives to a separate ground rod if the situation permits. Usually, a separate rod is NOT needed.

In the event a separate ground rod is used, it must be properly bonded to the home's ground electrode system IAW the requirements of the NEC or local codes.
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post #15822 of 17372 Old 05-01-2012, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

There are permissible alternatives to a separate ground rod if the situation permits. Usually, a separate rod is NOT needed.

In the event a separate ground rod is used, it must be properly bonded to the home's ground electrode system IAW the requirements of the NEC or local codes.

I haven't found a single instance in my part of Jersey where the outdoor antennas were grounded by anything other than a metal rod in the ground. They were (are) not grounded to the house electrical system. I'm not sure how many homeowners or installers ever did this. Perhaps Cable companies did this but at my house I have NO evidence that Cablevsion did this. In this piece there is good basic info on grounding:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html
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post #15823 of 17372 Old 05-01-2012, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

There are permissible alternatives to a separate ground rod if the situation permits. Usually, a separate rod is NOT needed.

In the event a separate ground rod is used, it must be properly bonded to the home's ground electrode system IAW the requirements of the NEC or local codes.

Guys, This is exactly were my grounding concerns are. The best solution for me given where my antenna and drop amp are is to run ground wires to a separate ground rod. My question there is how long the rod should be, I have seen lengths from 4 to 8 feet online (I assume longer is better if you can get the rod to go in its full length). My biggest concern right now is how to tie that rod to my home electric service. As I mentioned above my electric service comes into my property and my house underground (no wires at the side of the house). Thus finding a ground rod at the side of my house is not an option. How do I tie-in to the house system ground?

Tony Plachy
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post #15824 of 17372 Old 05-01-2012, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

I haven't found a single instance in my part of Jersey where the outdoor antennas were grounded by anything other than a metal rod in the ground. They were (are) not grounded to the house electrical system. I'm not sure how many homeowners or installers ever did this. Perhaps Cable companies did this but at my house I have NO evidence that Cablevsion did this. In this piece there is good basic info on grounding:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html

LenL, I have this link and I agree it is the best online article I have found so far. I am going to investigate my main service panel later today, I may find an acceptable way to tie into its ground. Will report back later.

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post #15825 of 17372 Old 05-01-2012, 03:33 PM
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My information is from the 2008 NC. If you homes are older, then relaxed or different code rules may have been in effect. Honestly, I'd suspect that past installers probably were not required to adhere to NEC requirements nor had to deal with a building or electrical inspector.


Tony,

Depending on when your home was built and whether it had to comply with codes will often determine how the ground electrode system, if any, would have been implemented. Current NEC has a multitude of permissible methods including some that don't require a ground rod.

This is a task that falls into the realm of a licensed electrician, but, if you examine the neutral bus in your breaker panel, you should be able to figure out how the grounding is implemented since the neutral is supposed to be bonded the ground at or near the service entrance.
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post #15826 of 17372 Old 05-02-2012, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Malibu Lighting emailed me that they are shipping new patio lights that their engineer has fixed for RF emissions. I expect them to arrive this week. As soon as my neighbor installs them I will post whether the RF interference issue has been fixed.

Hope these work for you. This is the never ending story. They should be selling these special lights and not have to make it special for you. But it is good they are working with you.

Guess they are afraid of the fcc
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post #15827 of 17372 Old 05-03-2012, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Hope these work for you. This is the never ending story. They should be selling these special lights and not have to make it special for you. But it is good they are working with you.

Guess they are afraid of the fcc

I did ask if they tested the lights to verify they gave off RF interference before and then after the fix the lights did not give off RF interference. I never got a response. So what does that tell me?

Also you would think that they would fix the LED product line and simply ship the new product as a replacement and not have to special fix an existing faulty product just for me?

It will be interesting to see what the results are.
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post #15828 of 17372 Old 05-03-2012, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALP View Post

LenL, I have this link and I agree it is the best online article I have found so far. I am going to investigate my main service panel later today, I may find an acceptable way to tie into its ground. Will report back later.

Keep us posted. I know one professional antenna installer who does not even bother with grounding as his view is if your house gets a direct hit nothing will help you anyway or be left of your house.

I still feel better doing something extra.
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post #15829 of 17372 Old 05-03-2012, 06:45 AM
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OK, A little background on my house. It was built in 1973 with an addition added in 1991. It was built by an architect for himself and his family, so the house is pretty well constructed. The main electric service panel is in the lowest level which is a family room with a mechanical / laundry room at the rear of the floor. The breaker box sits in an enclosure that also has the phone service box, the intercom box and the alarm box (added later). Some of this stuff that would normally be outside the house (such as the phone box) is inside because all of my utilities come into the house underground. I can see where the main electric service line comes into the enclosure and it is about 4 feet below ground (my electric meter, which is outside, is on a retaining wall and it is below the main ground level as well). The 200 amp service line has two large (I think gauge 2) wires that carry the 240V / 200 amp service to the house. These two wires have a large multi strand aluminum shield covering them which is twisted and tied to the main ground bus after the main line enters the breaker box. I see no evidence of any connection to a ground rod anywhere that I can see.

Interestingly there is an aluminum wire in a white casing (gauge 6, I think) that is also connected to the main ground bus and it then goes upwards through the outer wall. When the house was built the in wall wiring included an old twin lead antenna distribution system (the higher quality twin lead that had extra insulation on it). In an upstairs closet there is a really old distribution box for the antenna system. I wonder if the white ground wire was for the original antenna on the house before the days of cable?

I plan to see if I can get my wire snake from the point were the main line goes back underground from the meter to the point where the main line enters the panel enclosure. If I can I will see if I can the pull a large wire from the outside to the panel and connect it to the ground bus there. This wire would then go to the ground rod that I hope to install for the mast ground wire soon. More later.

Tony Plachy
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post #15830 of 17372 Old 05-04-2012, 02:40 PM
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It has been reported on the Radio-Info.com NYC TV forum that Time Warner Cable in New York City placed an advertisement in the New York Daily News announcing that two new channels will be available on their system effective June 6, 2012:

144 - Me-TV
192 - Azteca TV

Earlier on April 26, 2012, nyctveng reported the following here on AVS Forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctveng View Post

WPIX is dropping Estrella in May

I have been unable to confirm either via Time Warner Cable, Me-TV, or Azteca whether this information is accurate.

However, if all this information is correct, the speculation discussed HERE is likely coming to fruition.
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post #15831 of 17372 Old 05-04-2012, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giacomo Siffredi View Post

It has been reported on the Radio-Info.com NYC TV forum that Time Warner Cable in New York City placed an advertisement in the New York Daily News announcing that two new channels will be available on their system effective June 6, 2012:

144 - Me-TV
192 - Azteca TV

Earlier on April 26, 2012, nyctveng reported the following here on AVS Forum:

I have been unable to confirm either via Time Warner Cable, Me-TV, or Azteca whether this information is accurate.

However, if all this information is correct, the speculation discussed HERE is likely coming to fruition.

TWC may choose to pick up Estrella via alternative means as they did when WPIX dropped LATV a couple of years back. I believe TWC's carriage of Azteca and MeTv will be thru subchannels of WMBC and WSAH respectively.
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post #15832 of 17372 Old 05-04-2012, 08:02 PM
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Here is link to Time Warner's website containing the full text of the ad that ran in the Legal Notices section of the New York Daily News on Wednesday, May 2, 2012 on page 58. The portion about MeTV and Azteca is just a bit below the halfway point.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...alnotices.html
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post #15833 of 17372 Old 05-05-2012, 02:20 AM
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NYC, thank you very much for posting that picture

The specific portion of the legal notice reads as follows:
Quote:


On or about June 6, 2012 we will launch Azteca TV on ch. 192 and MeTV on ch. 144. Azteca TV will be part of our DTV en EspaƱol and El Paquetazo service offering. MeTV will be a basic service available only in digital format and viewable with digital cable-compatible equipment such as a digital converter or a digital television (or other device) that includes a QAM tuner and Signature View will be part of our DTV service offering.

It is interesting to note that Azteca is referred to as Azteca TV and not Azteca America, the service presently available over WMBC-DT6. It is also interesting to note that this added channel will not be included as a "basic service" offering. Based on these facts, it appears unlikely that the WMBC-TV Newton subchannel - or any broadcast TV station for that matter - will be the source of this service.

As to Me-TV, that service will definitely be provided via a New York market OTA broadcast TV station. Unfortunately, as is often the case with cable TV providers, they refer to the new channel only by name without including the call-sign. I concur that given the present circumstances, WSAH-TV Bridgeport is the likely station, but it is nonetheless interesting why it would have taken this long for them to demand carriage (likely) or negotiate retransmission consent (rather unlikely).

I still think it is not improbable that another broadcast TV station could begin carriage of Me-TV, especially when one such station's financially-troubled corporate owners are about to lose a revenue stream from a departing program provider.

One more observation: Given the language in the TWC legal notice, Weigel is not leasing a channel from TWC. The source of this program service will most definitely be a New York market OTA broadcast TV station.

The only remaining question is: Which one?
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post #15834 of 17372 Old 05-07-2012, 09:44 PM
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Estrella appears to be off of WPIX, as Antenna TV is on both 11.2 and 11.4.

On Cablevision, ch 115 still has Estrella as usual. However channel 114, Antenna TV, is blank with no sound. Go figure!
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post #15835 of 17372 Old 05-08-2012, 04:47 AM
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Picking up an old topic, finally - the ESB will be converting its ornamental lighting to LEDs.

Last month's test appears to have helped management to make this fast decision.

The last major test was in April of 2007!

Here's the Link to the article:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...tate-building/

There's a video at the end of the article.
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post #15836 of 17372 Old 05-08-2012, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post

Picking up an old topic, finally - the ESB will be converting its ornamental lighting to LEDs.

Last month's test appears to have helped management to make this fast decision.

The last major test was in April of 2007!

Here's the Link to the article:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...tate-building/

There's a video at the end of the article.

So the ESB is going with LED's which may or may not produce RF interference? I hope I have this wrong.

Tony Plachy
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post #15837 of 17372 Old 05-08-2012, 05:42 AM
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Your update on this topic is much appreciated and could be very important to us OTA folks.

When I last posted on this topic I told people on this forum that I saw NO evidence that they did anything other than test LEDS. I did write to the ESB and asked about the tests and NEVER got a response.

Now comes the question. Never did they mention potential RF interfence in this story. I know there are engineers involved in this work so lets hope they are familiar with RF interference and have tested to make sure the broadcast of VHF signals is not impacted. Otherwise we will be severely impacted in the fall when they switch over.
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post #15838 of 17372 Old 05-08-2012, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Keep us posted. I know one professional antenna installer who does not even bother with grounding as his view is if your house gets a direct hit nothing will help you anyway or be left of your house.

I still feel better doing something extra.

As I get closer to the date when I will have to go OTA (5/15) I am a little nervous after reading some of the earlier post in this thread about variable signal strength. My initial test were done on a very clear day and I am now worried that with weather fade my reception may not be all that I hoped for.

I now have all the components (I hope) that I need to ground my system in a way that I believe will comply with NEC. I have got 6 AWG copper wire, a ground rod, clamps and standoffs. I drove the 8 foot rod 6 feet into the ground about 2 feet from the side of my house. I wanted to go in 7 feet but even after 50 or more blows with a sledge I could not get it down any further than 6 feet. When my wife returns from a business trip to help me with our big ladder and the weather permits (later this week, I hope) I will run a ground wire (6 AWG)from the surge protector and the antenna mast to the ground rod. I will also tie the ground rod to the main electrical panel ground bus using the 6 AWG wire. Please let me know if I have missed anything.

Then after checking everything out again I will remove the last section of my cable that connects to the Cablevision in feed cable and the old Cablevision ground wire. I sure hope this all works out OK.

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post #15839 of 17372 Old 05-08-2012, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Your update on this topic is much appreciated and could be very important to us OTA folks.

When I last posted on this topic I told people on this forum that I saw NO evidence that they did anything other than test LEDS. I did write to the ESB and asked about the tests and NEVER got a response.

Now comes the question. Never did they mention potential RF interfence in this story. I know there are engineers involved in this work so lets hope they are familiar with RF interference and have tested to make sure the broadcast of VHF signals is not impacted. Otherwise we will be severely impacted in the fall when they switch over.

Len, ABC is in the VHF band, I cannot imagine they are going to be happy if their broadcast signal is corrupted by LED produced RFI. It is possible that with the rush to be "green" and lower electric cost that this got overlooked, but let's hope they ran some test to be sure switching on the LED's dies not harm any of their other systems such as broadcast TV.

Tony Plachy
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post #15840 of 17372 Old 05-08-2012, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ALP View Post

Len, ABC is in the VHF band, I cannot imagine they are going to be happy if their broadcast signal is corrupted by LED produced RFI. It is possible that with the rush to be "green" and lower electric cost that this got overlooked, but let's hope they ran some test to be sure switching on the LED's dies not harm any of their other systems such as broadcast TV.

If they have already experimented with LED fixtures on ESB, as the picture seems to indicate, has anyone traced DTV interference to this testing? (I realize that complete conversion could create more interference than just the test fixtures.)
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