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post #17251 of 17455 Old 07-30-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by uhfyagi View Post
update on metv. I spoke to someone at 4 times square. this afternoon they said that wplj would be debuting by friday.
There are many someones at 4 Times Square on a Wednesday afternoon. You need to be a little more specific reporting that here in order for interested parties to determine if this particular someone would have unique knowledge of the situation in order to make that statement.

WJLP does sound like WPLJ, doesn't it?
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Originally Posted by seamus21514 View Post
WPLJ are the call letters? I highly doubt that?
WPLJ is the call-sign of a highly billing but typical female-oriented mainstream Adult Contemporary FM station in New York City. Perhaps the management at PMCM TV thinks that if they can subliminally create a tie-in with this low-rated but high-billing radio station, they will somehow benefit by adding viewers from that highly-targeted audience. This is the only reason I can fathom as to why the station's future call-sign has been reported by Lee Leddy as WJLP.

I am still confident that KJLP will be the ultimate legal call-sign. In fact, earlier today, an associate of mine confirmed to me that the FCC has not received any request to reassign the WJLP call-sign. Of course, as long as a TV station identifies their legal call-sign once per hour, they can call themselves whatever they want during the remaining 59 minutes and 50 seconds of the rest of the hour.
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post #17252 of 17455 Old 07-30-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by veedon View Post

So, I do think that WFSB has a legitimate reason for wanting to be known as Channel 3 in the places where it has a history of being known as that.
Should I expect that new station anytime soon?
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post #17253 of 17455 Old 07-30-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mod50ack View Post
I am from northern Long Island. No connecticut signal, including WFSB, has ever been caught by me. It is out of the DMA of me, New Jersey, and New York. The only ones that I have heard were caught were WFSB8 in the analog days.
Given Long Island's geographic location in relation to the Atlantic Ocean, that is a little surprising. RF signals often travel better (and farther) over water. Nevertheless, I do not doubt your reception report.

In this significantly more landlocked area here in Bergen County, NJ., I can also report the absence of any reliable Connecticut television stations. However, there are several very reliable, though not particularly strong, Connecticut radio stations.

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Originally Posted by dstoffa View Post
I don't think regulations work, if any exist.

I have problems with one of my DTA's (a CM7000) handling stations that broadcast the same virtual channel info.

In southwwest Nassau County, I can receive both WZME (RF42, 43.1)
I can also receive WNYX-LD (RF43, 43.1)

When my CM7000 does a scan, it finds both stations, but it keeps the last channel info it finds, and overwrites WZME with WNYX-LD.

My other DTA allows me to search channels individually.
Many years ago, when plans to transition from Analog to Digital Television were first being discussed, the FCC should have insisted on a standard that would have required all ATSC/QAM tuners built into all DTA converters and television receivers sold here in the United States to provide for the ability to manually enter and/or tune the RF channel. Along those lines, another standard should have been insisted upon that would require any television station broadcasting a digital signal to identify their RF channel either concurrently or within their legal ID.

I do not know whether the NAB ever advocated for such standards, but if they didn't, that decision was lamentable. Who knows how many OTA viewers are presently being deprived of some television stations whose signals didn't happen to be strong enough to be added in their receiver's last scan?

It is perplexing when the FCC, whose role is to regulate broadcast stations, seems to base most of their decisions on what they apparently believe will soon be a country in which everyone subscribes to cable television and has a cable company issued converter.
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post #17254 of 17455 Old 07-30-2014, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Giacomo Siffredi View Post
...

Many years ago, when plans to transition from Analog to Digital Television were first being discussed, the FCC should have insisted on a standard that would have required all ATSC/QAM tuners built into all DTA converters and television receivers sold here in the United States to provide for the ability to manually enter and/or tune the RF channel. Along those lines, another standard should have been insisted upon that would require any television station broadcasting a digital signal to identify their RF channel either concurrently or within their legal ID.

...
I agree with you about manual tuning, but I think including the RF channel number in the station identification announcements would confuse a lot of viewers. Hey, maybe the station id announcement could give the megahertz frequency, just like for radio stations.
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post #17255 of 17455 Old 07-30-2014, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by veedon View Post
I agree with you about manual tuning, but I think including the RF channel number in the station identification announcements would confuse a lot of viewers. Hey, maybe the station id announcement could give the megahertz frequency, just like for radio stations.
Veedon, if you think displaying the RF channel number would confuse a lot of viewers, I hasten to think how confused they would be to see two numbers separated by a hyphen Some people may not even know to associate "megahertz" with broadcasting, and think instead it may have something to do with federal healthcare reform

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Originally Posted by veedon View Post
Although I'm not from New York, I find KVNV's situation very interesting because it will be a test of the viability of broadcasting on VHF-Lo in a major metropolitan area, and it will also be fascinating to see how advertisers react to a station in a major market having Me-TV as the primary affiliation. Will MeTV on KVNV be able to attract more and better advertisers than MeTV on WZME did?
The KVNV and KJWY (now KJWP) situations without question represent an historical and highly fascinating broadcasting milestone, given the unique circumstances of their humble beginnings in rural communities, and how a broadcasting company based in New Jersey purchased these two stations in anticipation of creating two new commercial VHF television stations in the New York City and Philadelphia markets by using a 1980s law originally intended to benefit one television station, and which hadn't been used since.

Certainly, the programming offered on Me-TV is more inviting then infomercials or otherwise brokered programming, and thus its programming fare could better test the viability of the VHF-Lo band in a major metropolitan area. The only caveat is the high percentage of pay TV penetration already present in the NYC market. However the matter of the channel number issue is ultimately decided, this station will eventually find a place somewhere on all of the areas pay TV providers. Most of the viewing of this station will probably be via cable/phone/satellite. Now, as I eluded to earlier, if KVNV is operated comparably to KJWP, there are some reasons why viewers will prefer to tune into KVNV via it's OTA signal, and I think once they know why, many of those viewers will attempt to access the OTA signal.

Initially, I would expect most advertising to be PI stuff, with one or two local businesses airing spots or sponsoring local breaks. Depending on what happens with the channel dispute and how PMCM TV markets the station, I expect the local advertising will increase, although not to the level of a traditional network affiliate. Certainly, owning the station outright and not being relegated to a subchannel will help tremendously in terms of marketing and traffic.

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Originally Posted by veedon View Post
So, I do think that WFSB has a legitimate reason for wanting to be known as Channel 3 in the places where it has a history of being known as that. But that should not stop KVNV from being Channel 3 in other places. That would be easy enough to do on cable systems. (Just have WFSB take the Channel 3 slot on the Connecticut cable systems, but let the new KVNV have the channel 3 slot on the cable systems outside Connecticut.

But how do you handle things OTA. If somebody is viewing the channels OTA in that part of Connecticut where both stations' signals can be received, then the tuner is going to receive the same PSIP info for the new KVNV as a person watching OTA in New Jersey would receive. Now, if there were a translator in Connecticut that could broadcast a special KVNV signal with PSIP info for just the Connecticut area, that could solve the problem, but that would be an expense that KVNV would not want to bear.

I wonder whether KVNV could agree to be on a subchannel of WFSB in Connecticut and adjust its main transmitter so that the KVNV signal from Times Square would not reach into Connecticut. That would require a business agreement between the two stations, and it would deprive KVNV of being a -1 channel in Connecticut.
Neither PMCM TV nor Meredith has any interest or intent to facilitate a situation in which KVNV would be carried on a WFSB subchannel. The issue, as Nyctveng correctly pointed out earlier today, is that WFSB is mostly concerned with losing the channel 3 slot on cable systems such as Cablevision that carry both NY & CT stations. Meredith did not like the FCC's initial dismissal of Meredith's informal objection as premature, and thus they escalated the matter requesting a declaratory ruling.

This is a crowded metropolitan area with few open channels, and thus these types of conflicts can be expected. This conflict, however, is quite unique for many reasons and it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Ultimately, the FCC and the broadcaster parties involved may have to concede to the OTA audience's abilities to differentiate between a channel 3-1 broadcasting Me-TV programming and another channel 3-1 broadcasting WFSB, in the event that some viewers find themselves located within areas in which both signals provide reliable service.

Which is why, as I stated earlier and you apparently agree, this dispute should be isolated to only those counties in which WFSB has long occupied the channel 3 dial position on the MVPDs. My hunch is that the territory in dispute essentially only exists in southern Connecticut, with perhaps a sliver portion of Long Island, NY., and thus these are the areas in which a delay of the station's carriage is perhaps warranted. However, a blanket delay, as is in place right now, is overbearing and unwarranted.
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post #17256 of 17455 Old 07-31-2014, 05:38 AM
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Giacomo,


Interesting discussion but I really don't think this whole discussion is worth it. For most of us, a low VHF station will not be meaningful as it will not be seen by our equipment for several reasons.


1. Not enough transmission power for the signal to be seen
2. Many of us have equipment (antennas or filters) that are designed to receive high VHF (7-13) and UHF only.
3. Antenna direction.


So for the few dozen people that will get this station....enjoy.
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post #17257 of 17455 Old 07-31-2014, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post
Giacomo,


Interesting discussion but I really don't think this whole discussion is worth it. For most of us, a low VHF station will not be meaningful as it will not be seen by our equipment for several reasons.


1. Not enough transmission power for the signal to be seen
2. Many of us have equipment (antennas or filters) that are designed to receive high VHF (7-13) and UHF only.
3. Antenna direction.


So for the few dozen people that will get this station....enjoy.
1. The power is increasing from 1.2kW as KVNV-TV to over 7kW for KJLP-TV. Still not the highest of power, but definitely not an extra-low-power operation. (this may increase more soon)
2. If you are within close range, your antenna will still pick up low-VHF stations. Who filters out Low-VHF?
3. It's looking pretty omnidirectional here... (https://maps.google.com/?q=http://tr...state%3DNJ.kml)
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post #17258 of 17455 Old 07-31-2014, 12:01 PM
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At one point I had 4 antennas up in operation. A CM4228, a VHF only, a UHF only and a home built Grey Hoverman. In one instance I was using a Blonder Tongue ZHLSJ filter/splitter to separate out low VHF and possible interference with the high VHF at my location.


I suspect that most people don't do this or use this equipment.


On the other hand many antennas are designed with high band VHF reception in mind.


I will look with interest and amusement no doubt as to whether I can receive this station when it is up and running.
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post #17259 of 17455 Old 07-31-2014, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by veedon View Post
Although I'm not from New York, I find KVNV's situation very interesting because it will be a test of the viability of broadcasting on VHF-Lo in a major metropolitan area, and it will also be fascinating to see how advertisers react to a station in a major market having Me-TV as the primary affiliation. Will MeTV on KVNV be able to attract more and better advertisers than MeTV on WZME did?

Trust me they don't expect many OTA viewers. They want and will get cable,directv,and dish carriage and most will be on the coveted ch 3 slot. The OTA signal will net a few thousand viewers if that but more importantly will reach cable headends for which they seek carriage. The big MSOs such as Verizon, Comcast, Cablevision, TWC may opt for a direct fiber feed and use the OTA as a backup. Comcast, Cablevision, TWC do share fiber feeds from local broadcasters. That being said sure MeTV on a uniform ch3 in the entire NYC DMA will reach a hell of a lot more viewers than WZME on cable systems north of NYC on all different channel numbers.
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post #17260 of 17455 Old 07-31-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by nyctveng View Post
Trust me they don't expect many OTA viewers. They want and will get cable,directv,and dish carriage and most will be on the coveted ch 3 slot. The OTA signal will net a few thousand viewers if that but more importantly will reach cable headends for which they seek carriage. The big MSOs such as Verizon, Comcast, Cablevision, TWC may opt for a direct fiber feed and use the OTA as a backup. Comcast, Cablevision, TWC do share fiber feeds from local broadcasters. That being said sure MeTV on a uniform ch3 in the entire NYC DMA will reach a hell of a lot more viewers than WZME on cable systems north of NYC on all different channel numbers.
Of course, the big catch is cable. But their antenna broadcast means that New York will finally have somebody airing on TV the syndicated reruns of Star Trek.
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post #17261 of 17455 Old 07-31-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Giacomo Siffredi View Post
Veedon, if you think displaying the RF channel number would confuse a lot of viewers, I hasten to think how confused they would be to see two numbers separated by a hyphen Some people may not even know to associate "megahertz" with broadcasting,
Those people really won't like WNBC's new slogan, "Megahertz? Yeah, We Got 'em: 504 More Than in '44"
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post #17262 of 17455 Old 07-31-2014, 09:02 PM
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No channel 3 yet for me

update: still not signed on, 9:55am August 1

Last edited by mod50ack; 08-01-2014 at 06:55 AM.
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post #17263 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 07:05 AM
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I curious if I can even get channel 3 because I do have a roof antenna that can get Low-VHF , VHF and UHF. Once the channel is up I will do a rescan and let you know.

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post #17264 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by reddice View Post
I curious if I can even get channel 3 because I do have a roof antenna that can get Low-VHF , VHF and UHF. Once the channel is up I will do a rescan and let you know.
If you can receive WKOB with your rig, you should have no trouble getting K-whatever (Channel 3) signs on as...

I can receive WKOB in Nassau County...
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post #17265 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dstoffa View Post
If you can receive WKOB with your rig, you should have no trouble getting K-whatever (Channel 3) signs on as...

I can receive WKOB in Nassau County...
I'm in Nassau also (near the Queens border) and I have never actually caught WKOB. This may be due to me indoor antenna vs an outdoor one. (I have an RCA "paperthin" that is advertised as high-VHF/UHF)

I hope to catch KJLP/KVNV/WJLP/WPLJ/W???/K??? when it comes on air.
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post #17266 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mod50ack View Post
(I have an RCA "paperthin" that is advertised as high-VHF/UHF)

I hope to catch KJLP/KVNV/WJLP/WPLJ/W???/K??? when it comes on air.
dont count on it. your paper thin antenna cant defy the laws of physics.

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post #17267 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 08:49 AM
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I can't get WKOB most of the time anyway so I doubt I will be able to get channel 3.

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post #17268 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post
dont count on it. your paper thin antenna cant defy the laws of physics.
Well, considering that the tvfool report at my location when I go down to the block level says that KVNV will be the second strongest signal after WNJU, I think I'll be okay....

It actually works a lot better than a rabbit ears+loop combo. It doesn't defy the laws of physics, though.
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post #17269 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by uhfyagi View Post
update on metv. I spoke to someone at 4 times square. this afternoon they said that wplj would be debuting by friday.
does your contact work on friday nights? i wonder if the delay is due to the storms.

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post #17270 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 07:23 PM
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10:22pm EDT. Channel 3 not on air yet.
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post #17271 of 17455 Old 08-01-2014, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoffa View Post
If you can receive WKOB with your rig, you should have no trouble getting K-whatever (Channel 3) signs on as...

I can receive WKOB in Nassau County...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mod50ack View Post
I'm in Nassau also (near the Queens border) and I have never actually caught WKOB. This may be due to me indoor antenna vs an outdoor one. (I have an RCA "paperthin" that is advertised as high-VHF/UHF)
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I can't get WKOB most of the time anyway so I doubt I will be able to get channel 3.
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Originally Posted by mod50ack View Post
1. The power is increasing from 1.2kW as KVNV-TV to over 7kW for KJLP-TV. Still not the highest of power, but definitely not an extra-low-power operation. (this may increase more soon)
2. If you are within close range, your antenna will still pick up low-VHF stations. Who filters out Low-VHF?
3. It's looking pretty omnidirectional here... (https://maps.google.com/?q=http://tr...state%3DNJ.kml)
As mod50ack near correctly points out, Channel 3 at Middletown Township will be transmitting with almost 7,000 watts from 4 Times Square, Manhattan, NY. Conversely, WKOB-LD presently transmits with only 300 watts on channel 2 from 845 United Nations Plaza (a/k/a Trump World Tower) which is situate at the intersection of 1st Ave. & E. 48th St., in Manhattan, NY. This means that once the station signs on, channel 3 will be transmitting a signal that is over 20 times stronger than the current signal on channel 2.

The eventual sign-on of KVNV will change the NYC area television landscape in more ways than one. Landover 5 LLC., the licensee of WKOB-LD, apparently has taken preliminary steps to ensure its continued presence in this market. WKOB-LD has had an open construction permit to move to channel 42 for a few years. The CP specifies a power increase to 1,000 watts and moving the transmitter to 416 Eagle Rock Ave., West Orange, NJ. The former owners of WKOB-LD cited as reasons for the changes the typical VHF-Lo interference issues incurred with digital TV and the necessity for viewers to have lengthy VHF-Lo elements in order to secure reception, particularly at such low wattage.

As recently as July 22, 2014, Landover 5 filed an application to modify the CP requesting in this application to increase the ERP from the planned 1,000 watts to 2,500 watts. This indicates that Landover 5 is planning to move WKOB-LD off channel 2 sooner rather than later in order to avoid any potential interference complaints from PMCM TV, the licensee of KVNV, and they want their new location to produce a much better signal than that which they have now or that which was contemplated by the original CP.

As many of you are aware, KVNV as a full-power TV station enjoys the most interference protection, and despite WKOB-LD having operated on channel 2 for the past 4½ years, a Low-Power TV station cannot present any destructive or harmful interference to a Full-Power TV station. The risk of doing so is exponentially higher in the VHF-Lo band, and especially in this situation in which the protected station is a first-adjacent and sequentially follows the subordinate station.

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Originally Posted by mod50ack View Post
I hope to catch KJLP/KVNV/WJLP/WPLJ/W???/K??? when it comes on air.
LOL, I bet no one would hope to catch it if the call-sign was KRAB
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post #17272 of 17455 Old 08-02-2014, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Giacomo Siffredi View Post
LOL, I bet no one would hope to catch it if the call-sign was KRAB
There is a KRAB-FM in california.
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post #17273 of 17455 Old 08-02-2014, 08:06 AM
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  • https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeGu...688995/?type=1

    Quote:
    The saga of Me-TV New York drags on. Channel 3 was set to launch on or around July 31st/August 1st, but this has now been delayed. The new word is a "September" launch, which means they could launch on any one of the 30 days in that month. One thing is clear, WZME 43.1 will continue to carry Me-TV after July 31st. What's not clear is how long this will last. The wait continues...
  • Cablevision has requested a delay citing customer confusion.. http://www.fcc.gov/document/cablevis...et-al?fontsize
  • PMCM has responded: https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeGu...al_comments=21

    Quote:
    PMCM filed an opposition to Cablevision’s deferral request, arguing, inter alia, that its right to mandatory carriage of KVNV(TV) on channel 3 “is so well settled as to require no elaboration here.” PMCM further asserts that KVNV(TV) “currently operates on major channel 3 in Ely, NV,“ and that “given the unique circumstances of KVNV’s transition to New Jersey” it would thwart the Court’s mandate to change its PSIP channel. PMCM states, however, that it is “sensitive to the complications posed by the insertion of KVNV’s channel 3 into Cablevision’s channel line-up” and that it would be willing to accommodate a deferral but that it must be brief “since it is essential that KVNV get on the air with full on-channel carriage prior to the key ratings periods coming up in the fall.”
  • Launch delayed till September: https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeGu...56643167759995

    Quote:
    It sure has been an interesting soap opera so far this year for Me-TV in the New York and Philadelphia TV markets. With the drama in Philadelphia settling down (relatively), now it's New York's turn at the wheel of craziness.
    As mentioned prior, channel 3 KVNV/WJLP (or whatever they will be called) has delayed its launch until September. Now apparently current Me-TV "New York" affiliate WZME, from Connecticut, will remain with the network after channel 3 signs on the air. WZME will become the Me-TV affiliate for Connecticut.
    The bigger questions I have are how exactly will this work? Will WZME officially move to the Hartford-New Haven market? Or will they remain in the NYC market? Will they be dropped on NYC market cable/satellite/telco systems to avoid duplication with channel 3? Will WZME expand its reach to the ENTIRE Hartford-New Haven market? Or remain on fringes of it, as it currently is? So many questions and very few answers at the moment. Hopefully more details will become available to give NYC viewers answers to what is ACTUALLY happening (on ALL fronts for Me-TV). Once more, stay tuned...
  • lastly, maybe they under staffed? http://www.indeed.com/viewjob?cmp=PM...68q5vTwD6yVbjA



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post #17274 of 17455 Old 08-02-2014, 10:05 AM
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Also, given the fact (also alluded to elsewhere) that the FCC was stupid enough to grant adjoining markets CBS affiliates the same phyical channel, my hope is not high that a suitable resolution will come out of this!
What difference does affiliation make? That can change at anytime although unlikely for the CBS-NY in this particular case.
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post #17275 of 17455 Old 08-02-2014, 02:00 PM
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The KVNV/KJLP situation isn't really all that complicated. This station would have been on the air by August 1, 2014 had it not been for the dispute raised by the owners of WFSB. That, and nothing else, is the hold-up. Had it been a technical issue, KVNV would have requested an STA or otherwise notified the FCC. I am near confident that all of the build-out has been completed and, short of minor adjustments, the only thing keeping this station off the air now technically is someone turning on the transmitter.

The companion reason why the channel number dispute is stalling the launch has to do with on-air and marketing promotion. Like sister station KJWP is presently doing, KVNV/KJLP will likely build its on-air branding around its Me-TV affiliation and its channel position. Given that this dispute is presently threatening the latter, PMCM TV probably feels they cannot proceed with producing promos and localized programming, nor can they effectively market the station until it is absolutely definite that they can proceed with using channel 3. It would be counter-productive to produce a lot of material, only to have to modify or scrap it in the highly unlikely event that the FCC rules against them and any subsequent appeals are unsuccessful. So they are currently taking a wait-and-see approach, and this likely means that the earliest this station will be on the air is around the early part of September 2014.

PMCM TV advised the FCC they wanted to "get on the air with full on-channel carriage prior to the key ratings periods coming up in the fall." Realistically, PMCM TV is not expecting windfall ratings in any key demographics that necessitate launching by Fall. Their only goal here is to get this matter expedited, as it should be.
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post #17276 of 17455 Old 08-02-2014, 05:04 PM
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It is interesting that CBS did not a stink about PMCM. After all, CBS is channel 3 in Philadelphia (KYW) and will overlap with KVNV. Likewise, as we know, WCBS is channel 2, and overlaps with KJWP in the same way.

One wonders if CBS viewers in central Jersey will see any difficulty.
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post #17277 of 17455 Old 08-02-2014, 06:38 PM
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CBS probably didn't care because whether the viewer gets WCBS or KYW, a CBS O&O station still gets the viewer, so the same corporate parent is involved.

If a WFSB viewer can no longer find the station, he or she goes to WCBS and Meredith loses a viewer to CBS.

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post #17278 of 17455 Old 08-03-2014, 11:26 AM
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I wonder how valuable it is for a station to have a low channel number on a cable system rather than a higher channel number.
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post #17279 of 17455 Old 08-03-2014, 11:29 AM
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I wonder how valuable it is for a station to have a low channel number on a cable system rather than a higher channel number.
Old people. The old people have an amazing inability to adapt to anything.
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post #17280 of 17455 Old 08-03-2014, 11:47 AM
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Old people. The old people have an amazing inability to adapt to anything.
In their defense, there is something eminently sensible about having Channel 3 be on Channel 3, not on some crazy channel number such as 1284.
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