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Old 06-12-2016, 06:41 AM
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You could be getting interference from Hartford/New Haven. WFSB-TV (CBS) channel 3 of Hartford uses channel 33 for their digital. Their transmitter is off of Deercliff Road on Avon Mountain. That's roughly the West Hartford/Avon town line.
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Old 06-13-2016, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post
Mama can't watch CBS This Morning !

What would be causing an issue on this one frequency only ?
Is it possible one of the receivers fed by the splitter is disconnected from the antenna cable?

Unterminated splitter ports can act like a direct short on specific frequencies.

Also as always with eff connectors make sure everything is tight.
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Old 06-13-2016, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 2VW View Post
Is it possible one of the receivers fed by the splitter is disconnected from the antenna cable?

Unterminated splitter ports can act like a direct short on specific frequencies.

Also as always with eff connectors make sure everything is tight.
I'll run around and check everything. I've no knowingly open ports, as a ham op I'm up on the bizarre ways RF can resonate and the importance of impedence even on RX....I'll give everything an extra twist.

I'm located on the side of a hill, behind any possible reflections from CT. On VHF ham radio, I have line of sight to NYC and down the Hudson and Jersey shore, but am hard pressed to work any VHF north or west of me. I checked a map and I'm several mountain ranges away even given the height of the transmitter in CT.... still, RF can be funky.

I'll never forget one night in the analog era, when I got a clear channel on every single 2-13 channel. Indeed, many nights channel 3 from Philly was clearer than 2 from NYC.....

Off to twist F connectors and check everything.
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In Vienna we sit, in late night cafe. Straight Connection, on T.E.E.

Last edited by speedlaw; 06-13-2016 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 06-14-2016, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post
I'll run around and check everything. I've no knowingly open ports, as a ham op I'm up on the bizarre ways RF can resonate and the importance of impedence even on RX....I'll give everything an extra twist.

I'm located on the side of a hill, behind any possible reflections from CT. On VHF ham radio, I have line of sight to NYC and down the Hudson and Jersey shore, but am hard pressed to work any VHF north or west of me. I checked a map and I'm several mountain ranges away even given the height of the transmitter in CT.... still, RF can be funky.

I'll never forget one night in the analog era, when I got a clear channel on every single 2-13 channel. Indeed, many nights channel 3 from Philly was clearer than 2 from NYC.....

Off to twist F connectors and check everything.
Been having same problem with Channel 2 fluctuating wildly lately. All other stations are a perfect lock with near 100% signal strength.
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Old 06-14-2016, 04:08 PM
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channel two fluctuation

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Originally Posted by jpru34 View Post
Been having same problem with Channel 2 fluctuating wildly lately. All other stations are a perfect lock with near 100% signal strength.
Yes. The odd thing is it will peak at 80 or so, stay strong and then drop to zero and pixellate. I am thinking that maybe there is some out of band interference ending up in the 590 mhz channel that comes and goes, like a paging tower or some sort of Police/fire dispatch. I don't get waver...it is solid lock and then knocked back to zero, lose lock....get lock back. It is like a switch, not a gradual fade. Not the profile of a just out of range station....

Hey, channel 2 ? Want to send an ENG truck up the Hudson Valley ? I'm sure a professional spectrum analyzer would answer this one.

My other two working theories are that the CBS transmit antenna is on the exact wrong side of the ESB, or that airplanes on the Hudson River Corridor are setting up odd reflections.

Meanwhile, all the other stations come in from 90 to 80 percent, with stable signals no matter the number on the menu.....

I went around the system, and found one unterminated split...fixed it....no difference.

In Vienna we sit, in late night cafe. Straight Connection, on T.E.E.

Last edited by speedlaw; 06-14-2016 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 06-15-2016, 01:49 PM
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no

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post
My other two working theories are that the CBS transmit antenna is on the exact wrong side of the ESB,
absolutely NOT!!!!
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post

My other two working theories are that the CBS transmit antenna is on the exact wrong side of the ESB, or that airplanes on the Hudson River Corridor are setting up odd reflections.



I went around the system, and found one unterminated split...fixed it....no difference.
The Empire CBS antenna is also currently used by WWOR and WNBC. This is a legacy of 9/11. There are fill antenna to take care of the wrong side problem. Of course certain directions will have problems with a system of that type.

Your description does fit airplane reflections. With line of sight you might try the television antenna at vertical polarization. Airplane reflections work much better at horizontal pol. Most TV antennas will not play well installed for vertical pol as the mast throws everything off.

If you have ham equipment around and a strong source of RF nearby like a CB operator with a garbage amplifier your transceiver's front end can partially rectify and transmit harmonics of very strong signals. The diode switching in some VHF transceivers does this quite well. The radio does not even have to be in use! Unhooking the antenna when the radio is not being operated fixes the problem.

Yes, a spectrum analyzer can tell plenty. Maybe one of those cheap RTL SDR jobs can work for you.

Hey you're a ham so experiments are normal : )

Best of luck.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2VW View Post
The Empire CBS antenna is also currently used by WWOR and WNBC. This is a legacy of 9/11. There are fill antenna to take care of the wrong side problem. Of course certain directions will have problems with a system of that type.

Your description does fit airplane reflections. With line of sight you might try the television antenna at vertical polarization. Airplane reflections work much better at horizontal pol. Most TV antennas will not play well installed for vertical pol as the mast throws everything off.

If you have ham equipment around and a strong source of RF nearby like a CB operator with a garbage amplifier your transceiver's front end can partially rectify and transmit harmonics of very strong signals. The diode switching in some VHF transceivers does this quite well. The radio does not even have to be in use! Unhooking the antenna when the radio is not being operated fixes the problem.

Yes, a spectrum analyzer can tell plenty. Maybe one of those cheap RTL SDR jobs can work for you.

Hey you're a ham so experiments are normal : )

Best of luck.
Ah, yes-experiments. I love playing with radio....I've a scanner hooked up as well, so I'm pretty familiar with my local radio-scape.

My first OTA experience was when I put up an old antenna I was given, just for giggles, and was floored to see how good the OTA signal was compared to the CATV source. This was back in the NTSC days and our local cable co got full amortization out of the old school distribution system-the signals were not very clean. You young'uns don't get that the 480i we saw isn't the digital clean 480 lines you might see somewhere...the DVD was a revelation because it was the first perfect picture most of us ever saw on an NTSC set. To be fair, picture quality wasn't "a thing" back then. NTSC's robustness was used against it...so there were a lot of poor practices...

I got a US Digital Box from Wal Mart, back when USDigital was a business concept, and used that for many years-the engineers wrote and distributed an OTA unlock key when USD went bankrupt (thanks guys !!)....followed by Sony HDD 250 DVR..So I've had digital OTA from the beginning, and I've seen a lot of change. Does anyone recall how good a 1080 i picture looked with NO SUBCHANNELS ? Pixel for pixel, folks.

I don't know if I could flip the antenna to vertical easily, but so far the interference appears to have gone away....and CBS is back to 80%....

My local transmitters are police and fire, and a cell tower a 1/2 mile away. I'm many miles from the nearest paging towers...The only CB is on channel 8, which is a local taxi company dispatch, it is otherwise dead in my location and they aren't amplified. No other hams around that I am aware of, and no changes in my local radio world.

Always fun. I have a $40 Homeworx 180 box, with a tuner and rudimentary PVR, and I'm amazed how well that $40 tuner works....
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post

Always fun. I have a $40 Homeworx 180 box, with a tuner and rudimentary PVR, and I'm amazed how well that $40 tuner works....
Any secrets for keeping your Homeworx box alive?

They work very well but I've been through two of them in under a year. Online reviews show same problem with lots of people. They just plain quit. Mine was powered by a UPS.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:25 AM
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No idea. I've had this for about four months, so far OK. I used a USB stick, and then a 1TB Hitachi drive. The box is sensitive to the speed of the USB stick-I had one that gave the box stutters on playback...which I why I ended up using a spinning drive. No UPS here.

I have no complaints for what is a VCR level experience for $100...It isn't my TiVo but by comparison it is almost "free".

The only bug I've noticed is that if it is on prior to record, and then records, and then stops, it won't go to the PVR screen without an on/off cycle. Nothing is lost, and it always clears the bug.

The Homeworx, etc are built for about $15 each. You can buy them from the OE manufacturers on Chinese websites in 1000 quantities, "will brand for you". I consider this disposable in a way my Tivo isn't.
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post

The Homeworx, etc are built for about $15 each. You can buy them from the OE manufacturers on Chinese websites in 1000 quantities, "will brand for you". I consider this disposable in a way my Tivo isn't.
Muntz might be a good name to market these under.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:27 AM
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Movies!

Has anyone noticed that 5.2 (Movies!) is now broadcasting in 480i widescreen?

I'm wondering how many bits/bytes are saved by broadcasters who use 480i 4x3 for their subchannels. Very few people now watch on 4x3 screens.
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Old 06-25-2016, 01:28 PM
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Is WABC, WPIX, WNET and WNJU broadcasting off 1WTC? I checked TVFool and Antennaweb and it says it is. I notice it says it is broadcasting 2.4 miles.
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Cats are the best pets.
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:49 PM
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No. And nothing scheduled.
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Old 06-26-2016, 11:26 PM
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Thanks. Never trusted those sites anyway it shows I can get WPXN but I cant get it no matter what antenna indoor or outdoor I use and WNYJ is weaker but I can get that station no problems with any cheap indoor antenna.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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Old 06-27-2016, 06:08 AM
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TV Fool and Antenna web are helpful and good to have but not perfect for many of us. They do have useful info on the broadcast towers relative to your location too.
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Old 06-27-2016, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
TV Fool and Antenna web are helpful and good to have but not perfect for many of us. They do have useful info on the broadcast towers relative to your location too.
Then why do they say 7, 11 and 13 are on 1WTC when they are not? That is a major flaw if you use that wrong information to point your antenna.

http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/dtvmaps/
This site is more accurate except for channel 31 which I can't receive it is right with all the other channels I can receive. Also shows 7, 9 and 11 on the ESB not 1WTC.

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Last edited by reddice; 06-27-2016 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 06-27-2016, 03:29 PM
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I agree they have a major error. I don't know what they are doing. I like this site:

http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/dtvmaps/

See if this helps you.
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Molnar View Post
Just a reminder that this site does not show Low Power stations, like WBND and WCWW in South Bend. It's a very good site, but is limited for areas where networks are carried on LP stations, like South Bend or elsewhere.
What is a South Bend guy doing in the NY Metro Area AVS forum?

Anyway I forgot about Rabbit Ears the best site of them all for kinds of TV and AVS info:

http://www.rabbitears.info/statistic...n_type&type=LD
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Old 06-28-2016, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I agree they have a major error. I don't know what they are doing. I like this site:

http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/dtvmaps/

See if this helps you.
That is the site I used. It is correct except for channel 31 which I can never get no matter what antenna outdoor, indoor or signal booster does not matter.
Also when I pointed my outdoor antenna back years ago I did not rely on TVFool or Antennaweb as they have always been so wrong. Just pointed the antenna while someone was watching the signal strength using RF-7 on my TV signal strength to get the best signal.

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Old 07-16-2016, 02:29 PM
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RF 33 interference continued

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Originally Posted by KEVINL71 View Post
You could be getting interference from Hartford/New Haven. WFSB-TV (CBS) channel 3 of Hartford uses channel 33 for their digital. Their transmitter is off of Deercliff Road on Avon Mountain. That's roughly the West Hartford/Avon town line.
I replaced every splitter with a new one. I checked every connection. I removed a stereo tuner I don't really use....

Still, the mystery of why every station is over 80 %, perfect lock, but for channel 2.1, RF 33, which also shows up at 80 percent...but loses lock and pixellates frequently...just enough to be annoying....

It has become more clear that you are correct...I'm getting interference somehow from another station. The proof came up when playing with, ironically, the cheapest of my tuners.

I have two Tivo tuners. True to internet lore, the best one is the TiVo HD, the older one. This keeps RF 33, NY CBS 2.1 most of the time. My Tivo Premier Box tunes it as well, but not as much....the older box is better.

My first generation Sony tuner in a Rear Projection set pixellates more than the others.

My Samsung tuner, at the weakest end of the OTA antenna setup won't even find it on a scan, due to the multi signal problem.

The Homeworx box, bless it's $40 heart, shows that when the image on RF 33 pixellates, unlike the other tuners where you get blocks and freeze, shows the other picture. You never actually get the whole picture....it isn't quite like the FM radio capture effect, but when 2.1 blox out, it is clear there's another picture fighting to get out from below...it never does enough for an actual station ID, but I've seen clearly greenery and skies..

At least it sorta proves the problem is another signal.

My response is to order a CM 4228, as the front/back ratio is much better than the f/b ratio for the RS VU 100 that is on the roof now. I'm willing to lose RF 3 (virtual 33) if it gets me (mama) CBS steady-I get very strong upper VHF, so I'm pretty sure the 4228 will work.

I'll post again when the antenna gets to the roof.....

In Vienna we sit, in late night cafe. Straight Connection, on T.E.E.
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Old 07-17-2016, 11:34 AM
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CM4228 does a great job with UHF but not so good with VHF. You probably already know this. I use a separate VHF only antenna with my 4228.
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Old Today, 10:11 AM
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The Radio Shack VU 120 came down. The CM 4228HD went up. After 15 or so years, the RS was beat up looking, but still good electrically. The CM 4228 is tiny by comparison to the big boom and VHF-LO receive elements.

Same mounting location-the antenna moved up four feet and laterally about three-the UHF Yagi was at the end of a long boom.

Interesting results. Off the bat, I lost channel 33-1, RF 3. This was expected, as the CM isn't a VHF Lo antenna. Zero Signal.

Here are the results, from the Tivo Premiere, using percentages. The CM 4228 met or beat the Radio Shack antenna everywhere. All Channels Lock on all TV sets, ranging from a TiVo HD, (best tuner in the house) to a Sony RPTV (Jan 2005 production, first gen HTDV)

Virtual ch...RF ch....%CM4228.....%RS antenna

I tried to clean up this table, but the word editor won't let me.

2 33 93 45 no lock
4 28 87 87
5 44 85 70/91
7 7 91 89/92
9 38 72 67
11 11 72 66/79
13 13 70 63
25 24 91 85
41 40 60 71
68 30 92 80

fraction means signal wavers


This time of year is historically worst case for RF at my location...all the trees are at maximum, I'm in a hilly area, and the air is hot and humid.

I consider the mission accomplished-all NYC OTA is coming down the wire. Losing 33.1 to gain 2.1 worth it and not worth another antenna. The only channel I lost anything on is 41, it still locks, and I don't use it.

Still amazed that it all worked but 2.1....and now 2.1 is one of my strongest signals. Missed it by that much, Mr Smart ?

50-1, NJ PBS, is almost lockable, and will be when the trees drop leaves.

The only thing I noticed while peaking the signal is that the CM 4228 is more directional than the yagi on the Radio Shack antenna...much more directional. I'm surprised that I got a better VHF hi signal than the monster antenna, but it required very precise aiming.

Mama can now watch Stephen in the evenings and CBS This Morning on Sunday. Household harmony restored.

In Vienna we sit, in late night cafe. Straight Connection, on T.E.E.

Last edited by speedlaw; Today at 03:04 PM. Reason: Final Signal Strength Readings.
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Old Today, 09:01 PM
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And. lastly, the results after aiming the antenna. The CM is very directional.



virtual-rf CM4228 RS VU-120





2-1 33 93 45 no lock
4 28 87 87/87
5 44 85 70/91
7 7 91 - 89/92
9 38 72 - 67
11 11 72 66/79
13 13 70 63
25 24 91 85
41 40 60 71
68 30 92 - 80

The CM 4228 works well on VHF-equal or higher numbers to the huge RS antenna.

In Vienna we sit, in late night cafe. Straight Connection, on T.E.E.
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