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post #18571 of 18597 Unread 04-13-2017, 04:20 PM
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WNBC is going off air... NBC 4 is LEAVING!
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post #18572 of 18597 Unread 04-13-2017, 04:53 PM
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And yet WNJU remains on the air. It's almost as if NBC sold one of their two signals and could put both on the one transmitter...

...like they're already doing in Boston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco.

- Trip

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post #18573 of 18597 Unread 04-14-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
And yet WNJU remains on the air. It's almost as if NBC sold one of their two signals and could put both on the one transmitter...

...like they're already doing in Boston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco.

- Trip
Funny how that happened to work out that way While I won't speak for onwisconsin, I think the incredulous element of this is that WNBC's original incarnation, WNBT New York, was one of the first two commercial television stations to commence operations in the United States. The other station was WCBW New York, now WCBS-TV New York. Another first for WNBT was its operation on channel 1 (44-50 MHz) under experimental call-sign W2XBS. What does all this mean for the present communications environment? Absolutely nothing.

TRIP: Going forward, should Comcast wish to continue WNBC programming over-the-air and share space on the WNJU Linden signal, would the WNBC spectrum be separately licensed or would it operate as a subchannel of WNJU?

Incidentally, Comcast will not be leaving the airwaves entirely in the markets Trip referenced; that corporation was one of the three successful bidders in the incentive auction and will be using the repurposed spectrum for other commercial for-profit purposes The corporation issued a statement following the auction results release saying they were retaining the "superior" television signal in each of the markets in which they cashed-out.

The other stations in the New York City market that will relinquish their spectrum are as follows:

WEBR-CD New York (RF 49)
WMBQ-CD New York (RF 46)
WMUN-CD New York (RF 45)
WNBC New York (RF 28)
WNJN Montclair, NJ. (RF 51)
WNYJ-TV West Milford, NJ. (RF 29)
WRNN-TV Kingston, NY. (RF 48)
WTBY-TV Poughkeepsie, NY. (RF 27)
WXTV Paterson, NJ. (RF 40)
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post #18574 of 18597 Unread 04-14-2017, 10:50 AM
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Yes. WNBC would hold a separate license for the same channel 35 spectrum that WNJU (as channel sharing "host") will be licensed for.

- Trip

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post #18575 of 18597 Unread 04-14-2017, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Yes. WNBC would hold a separate license for the same channel 35 spectrum that WNJU (as channel sharing "host") will be licensed for.

- Trip
Then how would the issue of subchannels be handled? This presumes Comcast intends to share on channel 35 and maintain their present channel lineups of Cozi TV for WNBC and Telexitos for WNJU....
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post #18576 of 18597 Unread 04-14-2017, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Giacomo Siffredi View Post
Then how would the issue of subchannels be handled? This presumes Comcast intends to share on channel 35 and maintain their present channel lineups of Cozi TV for WNBC and Telexitos for WNJU....

More than likely, it would mean that the signal will be split four ways.
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post #18577 of 18597 Unread 04-15-2017, 02:30 AM
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The one signal would transmit 4-1, 4-2, 47-1, and 47-2, and each pair would be separately licensed for channel 35.

- Trip

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post #18578 of 18597 Unread 04-15-2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
The one signal would transmit 4-1, 4-2, 47-1, and 47-2, and each pair would be separately licensed for channel 35.

- Trip
Is this channel sharing expected to be implemented in th existing ATSC 1.0 system or will they wait for ATSC 3.0?
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post #18579 of 18597 Unread 04-16-2017, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post
Is this channel sharing expected to be implemented in th existing ATSC 1.0 system or will they wait for ATSC 3.0?
Current system. NBC already runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, and COZI/Exitos (depending on the specific transmitter) in San Francisco and Philadelphia, and runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, COZI, and Exitos in Boston.

And, of course, Univision is already running dual HD and dual SD on both its New York signals.

- Trip

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post #18580 of 18597 Unread 04-18-2017, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Current system. NBC already runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, and COZI/Exitos (depending on the specific transmitter) in San Francisco and Philadelphia, and runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, COZI, and Exitos in Boston.

And, of course, Univision is already running dual HD and dual SD on both its New York signals.

- Trip
I watch WNBC Channel 4 regularly. I record it regularly on my Channel Master OTA DVR+. Does this mean that I will have to rescan my channels, since WNBC Channel 4 will be on a different RF channel? If WNBC Channel 4's RF channel will be moving, is that new RF channel already in use by WNJU? If I check my reception, right now, of WNJU, will that tell me how well I will receive the new RF channel for WNBC Channel 4? When will this be happening? I presume that if this change is accompanied by WNBC Channel 4 upgrading to ATSC 3.0, that means I will no longer be able to receive WNBC Channel 4 on the DVR+, right? Are there any OTA DVR's at the moment that can receive ATSC 3.0? Understand I'm a rank newbie so some of these questions may have already been answered but I just didn't understand the answer.
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post #18581 of 18597 Unread 04-18-2017, 08:30 AM
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Hey criggs,

A rescan will definitely be in order following the repack as WNBC will be among many stations to transition to other channel positions. The other stations include WCBS-TV, WNYW, WWOR-TV, WNET, WLIW, WDVB-CD, WPXN-TV, WNJU, WLNY-TV, and WFUT. The only difference is that of all those stations, only WFUT and WNJU will be involved in channel-sharing situations, with WXTV and WNBC respectively.
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post #18582 of 18597 Unread 04-18-2017, 08:34 AM
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When is the effective date for the changes?
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post #18583 of 18597 Unread 04-18-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by criggs View Post
I watch WNBC Channel 4 regularly. I record it regularly on my Channel Master OTA DVR+. Does this mean that I will have to rescan my channels, since WNBC Channel 4 will be on a different RF channel? If WNBC Channel 4's RF channel will be moving, is that new RF channel already in use by WNJU? If I check my reception, right now, of WNJU, will that tell me how well I will receive the new RF channel for WNBC Channel 4? When will this be happening? I presume that if this change is accompanied by WNBC Channel 4 upgrading to ATSC 3.0, that means I will no longer be able to receive WNBC Channel 4 on the DVR+, right? Are there any OTA DVR's at the moment that can receive ATSC 3.0? Understand I'm a rank newbie so some of these questions may have already been answered but I just didn't understand the answer.
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When is the effective date for the changes?
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...ectrum-auction
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post #18584 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
The one signal would transmit 4-1, 4-2, 47-1, and 47-2, and each pair would be separately licensed for channel 35.

- Trip

So saying NBC is going off the air is NOT entirely correct? Perhaps from a techie perspective. However NBC programming will still be available for OTA viewers as see their favorite shows after the repack. Is that correct Trip?
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post #18585 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Current system. NBC already runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, and COZI/Exitos (depending on the specific transmitter) in San Francisco and Philadelphia, and runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, COZI, and Exitos in Boston.

And, of course, Univision is already running dual HD and dual SD on both its New York signals.

- Trip
Trip doesn't WNJU Broadcast out of NJ? If so then when WNBC joins WNJU will it move to the ESB or still broadcast out of NJ?
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post #18586 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 07:33 AM
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So saying NBC is going off the air is NOT entirely correct? Perhaps from a techie perspective. However NBC programming will still be available for OTA viewers as see their favorite shows after the repack. Is that correct Trip?
Hope Trip doesn't mind if I field this one: You're correct. NBC programming simply moves to WNJU's frequency. The day that happens, OTA users may need to do a channel rescan. Once that's done, NBC will still show up as 4.1 as before. Since WNJU is the better signal, 4.1 may be more stable than it was via WNBC.

If I were them, I'd also apply to have the call letters to WNJU changed to WNBC just so the TOH ID doesn't confuse anyone.

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Originally Posted by LenL View Post
Trip doesn't WNJU Broadcast out of NJ? If so then when WNBC joins WNJU will it move to the ESB or still broadcast out of NJ?
The FCC database shows them already on ESB.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.

Last edited by DrDon; Yesterday at 07:42 AM.
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post #18587 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 07:43 AM
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The FCC database shows them already on ESB.
What's ESB?

Last edited by criggs; Yesterday at 07:44 AM. Reason: Extraneous material
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post #18588 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 08:31 AM
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ESB = Empire State Building
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post #18589 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 09:48 AM
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Yes, WNJU is already on the Empire State Building, but has an STA to begin operating from 1 World Trade Center. Not sure when that will happen.

- Trip

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post #18590 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
Hope Trip doesn't mind if I field this one: You're correct. NBC programming simply moves to WNJU's frequency. The day that happens, OTA users may need to do a channel rescan. Once that's done, NBC will still show up as 4.1 as before. Since WNJU is the better signal, 4.1 may be more stable than it was via WNBC.

If I were them, I'd also apply to have the call letters to WNJU changed to WNBC just so the TOH ID doesn't confuse anyone.



The FCC database shows them already on ESB.
I don't think the FCC knows where they are as this FCC website shows them broadcasting from NJ. https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps

Perhaps they moved to the ESB and this site is no longer being maintained but is up and running with bum info! Just Great!
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post #18591 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 10:31 AM
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Dr. Don,

May be on the docs you are reading WNJU should be a better signal than WNBC. However I am one OTA person that gets significantly better signal from WNBC 4.1 than WNJU 47.1. Signal strength is 80 versus 40 in favor of WNBC and quality is 100 versus 60 in favor of WNBC.

I am 30 miles west of the ESB in the hills of north central NJ. Maybe I am one of the few people that will see much poorer reception!
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post #18592 of 18597 Unread Yesterday, 02:37 PM
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Dr. Don,

May be on the docs you are reading WNJU should be a better signal than WNBC. However I am one OTA person that gets significantly better signal from WNBC 4.1 than WNJU 47.1. Signal strength is 80 versus 40 in favor of WNBC and quality is 100 versus 60 in favor of WNBC.

I am 30 miles west of the ESB in the hills of north central NJ. Maybe I am one of the few people that will see much poorer reception!
LenL, you should see an improvement in WNJU & WNBC when both move to 1 WTC
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LenL, you should see an improvement in WNJU & WNBC when both move to 1 WTC
As Trip has pointed out before, the construction permit for 1WTC for WNJU allows 530 KW, but the construction permit for WNBC allows only 170 KW. That is very likely the main reason for keeping WNJU.
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post #18594 of 18597 Unread Today, 01:56 AM
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I can't even get WNJU so losing WNBC for more wasted cell bandwidth I am ticked. Just auction off 500 mhz for the overpaid cell companies in a few years and get rid of traditional FM radio for more internet of things junk. Then make the OTA stations cable/satellite subscription only and move the FM stations online only. I see this going to happen in the next 10 years.

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post #18595 of 18597 Unread Today, 03:49 AM
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I think something is being lost in this discussion: WNJU is moving to 1WTC. As of right now, no stations are located there, so any statements about how reliable WNJU is right now are not reflective of how it will be by the time WNBC's transmitter goes off the air.

- Trip

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post #18596 of 18597 Unread Today, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
I think something is being lost in this discussion: WNJU is moving to 1WTC. As of right now, no stations are located there, so any statements about how reliable WNJU is right now are not reflective of how it will be by the time WNBC's transmitter goes off the air.

- Trip
Thanks Trip. So you are certain that NBC will not be using the ESB when it loses it's transmitter? That is good news. It is bad news if there is a delay in the move to 1WTC and they operate from the ESB for any length. I don't have much faith in schedules being very reliable these days.

Are there any schedules for the move out of the ESB to 1WTC? I haven't seen any if they exist. If they don't exist yet then that could be a problem.
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NBC has already filed an STA for it and the FCC has granted it, so it has to be reasonably close; STAs only last 6 months at a time.

- Trip

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