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post #18601 of 18629 Old 04-25-2017, 07:51 PM
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WNYW moves to 27
WWOR moves to 25

Both around August, 2019. At that time, you'll need to rescan.

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post #18602 of 18629 Old 04-26-2017, 09:50 AM
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Wcbs

Which channel will WCBS move to?
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post #18603 of 18629 Old 04-26-2017, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisHPC View Post
Which channel will WCBS move to?
36. http://www.nab.org/repacking/clearinghouse.asp
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post #18604 of 18629 Old 04-26-2017, 09:44 PM
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Question

Trip,

Why is WHYY-TV Wilmington (Philadelphia) moving from RF12 to RF13 while WNET Newark (New York) is moving from RF13 to RF12?

Couldn't each PBS affiliate have remained where they are now?
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post #18605 of 18629 Old 04-27-2017, 04:31 AM
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To prevent interference. There were a handful of stations that accepted money to move from UHF to high-VHF. To make them fit, it was necessary to reshuffle a number of high-VHF stations going right up the east coast from Florida to Canada.

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post #18606 of 18629 Old 04-27-2017, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
To prevent interference. There were a handful of stations that accepted money to move from UHF to high-VHF. To make them fit, it was necessary to reshuffle a number of high-VHF stations going right up the east coast from Florida to Canada.

- Trip
Presuming the NYC Metropolitan Television Alliance will continue to use a combiner antenna for the VHF-Hi stations as they presently do, is there any concern about post-repacking interference between stations WPIX (RF11) and WNET (RF12)? As things currently exist, WPIX sometimes presents a reception challenge to even the most knowledgeable and patient OTA viewer....
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post #18607 of 18629 Old 04-27-2017, 02:28 PM
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Shouldn't be. Plenty of markets have adjacent channels.

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post #18608 of 18629 Old 04-27-2017, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giacomo Siffredi View Post
Presuming the NYC Metropolitan Television Alliance will continue to use a combiner antenna for the VHF-Hi stations as they presently do, is there any concern about post-repacking interference between stations WPIX (RF11) and WNET (RF12)? As things currently exist, WPIX sometimes presents a reception challenge to even the most knowledgeable and patient OTA viewer....
I agree WPIX is so frustrating. Why did WPIX not move to UHF and that useless WWOR repeat cop network move to VHF RF-11.

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post #18609 of 18629 Old 04-30-2017, 02:49 PM
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Another Repacking Question

When the NYC stations move to their new channel assignments, will they continue to broadcast at the same ERP? Or, will their broadcast power change?
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post #18610 of 18629 Old 04-30-2017, 05:17 PM
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The power varies with frequency, so stations that move down in channel will have slightly less power, while those moving up in channel will have slightly more.

In any event, they'll have an opportunity to request more power at a later date.

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post #18611 of 18629 Old 05-04-2017, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisHPC View Post
When the NYC stations move to their new channel assignments, will they continue to broadcast at the same ERP? Or, will their broadcast power change?
They may also have moved from the Empire State Building by then and that too can play a role.
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post #18612 of 18629 Old 05-04-2017, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
They may also have moved from the Empire State Building by then and that too can play a role.
So what is actually happening with that ... it seems after a couple of years, still only WNET & NBC's WNBC/NJU have announced/applied for the move, & they have yet to move ....
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post #18613 of 18629 Old 05-04-2017, 12:46 PM
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So what is actually happening with that ... it seems after a couple of years, still only WNET & NBC's WNBC/NJU have announced/applied for the move, & they have yet to move ....
Hard to say what is going on with the schedule move to 1WTC other than costs and planning when to do it given the ATSC 3.0 rollout coming down the road and the repack just about here.

Others can chime in.
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post #18614 of 18629 Old 05-05-2017, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatChicken View Post
So what is actually happening with that ... it seems after a couple of years, still only WNET & NBC's WNBC/NJU have announced/applied for the move, & they have yet to move ....
Some info here:https://www.thebroadcastbridge.com/c...oving-to-1-wtc
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post #18615 of 18629 Old 05-09-2017, 10:24 AM
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Just saw that WPXN-TV is also moving to the World Trade Center.
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post #18616 of 18629 Old 05-09-2017, 11:55 AM
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"Durst announced that broadcast transmission tests would commence May 8 with WNJU, WNBC, WCBS and WNET, at the NAB Show last month"
... was at the bottom of the article:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/000...-center/281008
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post #18617 of 18629 Old 05-09-2017, 04:54 PM
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Just saw that WPXN-TV is also moving to the World Trade Center.
Maybe I will be finally able to pick it up. I can't never get that station with any indoor or outdoor antenna.

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post #18618 of 18629 Old 05-10-2017, 06:01 AM
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Trip or anyone. I read the article and it never explained what is meant by "TEST BROADCASTING". Supposed to begin May 8.

Would that be something any of us OTA viewers would see evidence of?
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post #18619 of 18629 Old 05-10-2017, 11:06 AM
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Might be overnight testing. I'm assuming my autoscanner in Fair Lawn would catch it.

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post #18620 of 18629 Old 05-18-2017, 09:01 PM
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repack and ATSC 3.0

Haven't been to the NY-OTA forum in a while - this repack and ATSC 3.0 rollout discussion is above my pay grade, so can you answer a couple of basic questions.

In a couple of years RF channels will be shuffled around - got it. Does this mean more compression/"lower res"/less information reaching my OTA TV? (From the last couple of pages on this thread it looks like most of the moves are down the spectrum - which to me means less information can be carried; or two moved stations will be sharing one RF channel - which to me means less information per sub-channel.)

In a couple of years ATSC will be supplanted by ATSC 3.0 - got it. So, does this mean new tuners (and maybe government 4KTV tuner coupons like DTV in 2009)? With ATSC 3.0, think I've seen the phrase "IP based" - does this mean a receiving TV will need to be "smart" with an internet connection (which of course defeats the idea of OTA) to, I don't know, say, validate permission for viewing, etc.?

Thanks.
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post #18621 of 18629 Old 05-19-2017, 07:08 AM
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WNJU is expected to begin over-the-air nighttime transmission testing from One World Trade Center in downtown Manhattan, next week.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/1...a-transmission

Last edited by DrDon; 05-19-2017 at 07:36 AM. Reason: Added description of linked story
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post #18622 of 18629 Old 05-19-2017, 07:39 AM
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Posts edited.

As a courtesy to mobile users on expensive data plans, we ask that you include SOME sort of description as to what a link links TO. Could. be a headline.. anything other than an unexplained dry link. While the link often contains that information, the forum software often truncates it so the entire link doesn't always appear.

Thanks.

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post #18623 of 18629 Old 05-19-2017, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillonacrt View Post
Haven't been to the NY-OTA forum in a while - this repack and ATSC 3.0 rollout discussion is above my pay grade, so can you answer a couple of basic questions.

In a couple of years RF channels will be shuffled around - got it. Does this mean more compression/"lower res"/less information reaching my OTA TV? (From the last couple of pages on this thread it looks like most of the moves are down the spectrum - which to me means less information can be carried; or two moved stations will be sharing one RF channel - which to me means less information per sub-channel.)

In a couple of years ATSC will be supplanted by ATSC 3.0 - got it. So, does this mean new tuners (and maybe government 4KTV tuner coupons like DTV in 2009)? With ATSC 3.0, think I've seen the phrase "IP based" - does this mean a receiving TV will need to be "smart" with an internet connection (which of course defeats the idea of OTA) to, I don't know, say, validate permission for viewing, etc.?

Thanks.
I'm sure someone will chime in with more info, but here's some broad-stroke basics:
the bandwdith of the existing channels is not changing, or getting smaller, so, just as today, the same "amount of data" can be sent on RF ch 7 as can be sent on RF channel 50, or whatever since they are just as "wide" ,( their location on the RF Spectrum is irrelevant, VHF RF 7 is not in any way a "lower res" channel than UHF RF48..)
... ATSC 3.0 should allow for higher resolutions (algorithms can "cram more stuff into the channel's bandwidth"), , just as MPEG 4 can be sent at a lower data stream rate than MPEG 2, without sacrificing picture quality ...
Yes, once any broadcaster starts sending ATSC 3.0 OTA, you will need equipment than can receive it ....
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post #18624 of 18629 Old 05-19-2017, 09:12 PM
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the bandwdith of the existing channels is not...getting smaller...they are just as "wide"...
Thanks. Guess I had always assumed that modulating a 60ish MHz carrier (like WJLP RF 3) would carry less info than a 650ish MHz carrier (like WNYW RF 44), but can see that the actual bandwidth may be a whole different thing. But if a single RF channel is shared (WNBC/WNJU mentioned above) can I sill presume something has to give to "fit"?
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post #18625 of 18629 Old Yesterday, 07:30 AM
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But if a single RF channel is shared (WNBC/WNJU mentioned above) can I sill presume something has to give to "fit"?
Yep. Luckily, statistical-multiplexing encoders have come a long way in ten years. Engineers still refer to it as "70 pounds of video in a 10-pound sack." There's roughly 18Mbit/s to work with, so today's multiplexers can assign more of that pipe to the more demanding programming on the fly. It's customizable, so a station can choose to "sacrifice" PQ on, say, a couple of 480i subchannels when there's fast movement on the main 1080i channel.

I don't think there's been definitive word on what all they're going to cram on WNJU, but if nothing changes, you'd have..
WNBC 1080i
WNJU 1080i
Cozi 480i
TeleXidos 480i
All sharing that 18Mbit/s pipe. You have to assume WNBC's going to have the latest-greatest encoder. So, we'll see how well that works, especially during sports. The handy part is that NBC owns both stations, so throttling 'NJU/Telemundo down to 16:9 480i is always an option.

Where this becomes an issue is for the ATSC 3.0 rollout. Without a secondary frequency, stations will have to channel-share, putting the entire programming set for both stations on two transmitters.. one for 3.0 and one running legacy 1.0. All that video isn't a problem for ATSC 3.0. But adding WNBC/NJU's pretty-maxed-out sack of video to that of another broadcaster on an ATSC 1.0 signal would be an effort, to say the least. Sure, they could cut the subchannels, but those are revenue streams. It's unlikely they'd do that.
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post #18626 of 18629 Old Yesterday, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillonacrt View Post
Thanks. Guess I had always assumed that modulating a 60ish MHz carrier (like WJLP RF 3) would carry less info than a 650ish MHz carrier (like WNYW RF 44), but can see that the actual bandwidth may be a whole different thing....." "
Yes, that would actually be the case, if , for example, the 60Mhz channel was only 2Mhz "wide", say from 61-63Mhz, vs if a 650Mhz channel was, say 6 Mhz "wide" 651-657Mhz .. However, since all the channels are the same "width", they can carry the same information..
It seems to be a common misconception ... I've seen in cellular forums where some people assumed new 650Mhz LTE 4g channel data speeds would be inherently "slower" than 1900Mhz LTE channels ... Not realizing that if the carrier has a 20x20Mhz block of 650, it will be able to do better speeds than if they have a 10x10Mhz "chunk of 1900 ...
At modern data type transmissions, the "width" of Mhz chuck determines how much data can be broadcast from that channel ..
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post #18627 of 18629 Old Yesterday, 01:53 PM
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Thank you. Very informative about both subjects. Think that's about all I needed to understand at this point in time. (But guess I should consider selling off my extra ATSC 1.0 DTV set-top boxes while there is still a market for them…)
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post #18628 of 18629 Old Today, 04:17 PM
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Would it be possible to broadcast in the more efficient mp4 manner using atsc 1.0 to make more room before the switch to atsc 3.0?
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post #18629 of 18629 Old Today, 09:00 PM
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Would it be possible to broadcast in the more efficient mp4 manner using atsc 1.0 to make more room before the switch to atsc 3.0?
Do you mean MPEG-4? Nope. No current ATSC 1.0 receiver can process it.

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