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post #1951 of 1982 Old 02-26-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post

Assumung Buckeye is a cable company, it should be pointed out that TWC, Directv, Dish Network, and Comcast all have had similar volume increase requirements for a long time. My Denon receiver has the satellite input source volume increased +12 (the max) and I still have to watch Directv around 35 to 40, where other sources are around 30.

Thanks, that's good info to know.. I'll have to look in to seeing if my Onkyo has an option to increase the one source higher than others.
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post #1952 of 1982 Old 07-21-2014, 04:21 AM
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Hey Guys. Wife and I noticed that our picture quality in the last month or so has started to degrade. Had Buckeye out. They checked everything Two guys. . (I have the whole house Gateway). the one guy said that the picture looked fantastic which maybe ti him it did but not to us. I have a 60" Pana Plasma. Before you could see the pours of peoples face. Now the picture is clear but not vibrant like it used to be. Looks like a slight haze over the picture. Its not the TV, I checked that. I think Buckeye is playing games again with the bandwidth. Trying to fit too many HD channels on certain bandwidths that cuts down on the amount of info that the tv gets to display. The two techs didn't know anything about this and of course Buckeye will not admit this. Buckeye can only put out 1080i at this point. anyone else notice that there picture just isn't quite as good as it used to be? This could finally push me to Uverse or something else.
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post #1953 of 1982 Old 07-27-2014, 08:26 AM
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I have really noticed it in the past few weeks. Watching news/sportscenter, some text is barely readable. Lots of compression with fast moving objects.

Buckeye used to have very good PQ compared to Time Warner or Comcast, but since they've been trying to up the internet to speeds that nobody even needs, the PQ has gone done considerably. I assume they think nobody (or only a small amount of people) will actually notice the decrease. They'll keep doing it.

One can only hope that with the removal of the analog signals, that they would use that extra bandwidth to increase PQ on HD channels.
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post #1954 of 1982 Old 01-11-2015, 07:54 AM
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im trying to get OTA for my parents barn. i got the well reviewed terk, but cant pick up 11 or 13. any ideas for a good vhf high antenna for the whitehouse area?
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post #1955 of 1982 Old 01-12-2015, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacroy View Post
im trying to get OTA for my parents barn. i got the well reviewed terk, but cant pick up 11 or 13. any ideas for a good vhf high antenna for the whitehouse area?
What's the model number of the Terk and are you north or south of Whitehouse? The north/northwest side of Whitehouse would be harder to receive WTOL & WTVG due to the large amount of trees in that area that block out VHF signals. South side would be easier due to the flat open land. Transmitters are located east of Toledo and northeast of Oregon... err... Buckeye.

Newer is not always better.
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post #1956 of 1982 Old 12-31-2015, 05:22 PM
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Delhi VIP-307SR Vs. Stellar Labs 30-2476 (Toledo,Ohio Area)

Looking for some feedback, as my top UHF antenna fell down.

Wanted to inquire if while I have the installer here, perhaps some some maintenance should be done.

- I have the Delhi VIP-307SR - Slightly damaged from the top antenna PR-9032 falling down and hitting the element resulting it from being damaged.

Thinking about replacing the VIP-307SR with the (just) a Channel 7 - 13 antenna. Unfortunately, the only VHF high bander I could find is the Stellar Labs 30-2476.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/30-2476

1) Would you take down the (slightly damaged) Delhi and replace with the Stellar Labs 30-2476.
- I think the gain listed on the website is misleading at 14dB.

The reason for my thinking is that, if the guy is already up on the tower, why not take down the 8 year old Delhi and replace. In my area, zip code 43614, I only have two VHF antenna channels locally which are under 30 miles away. The Delhi is a complete beast of an antenna.

2) UHF antenna - The cheap Winegard PR-9032 bolts rusted on the mask clamp rusted and broke resulting in the antenna falling off. Replacing with my favorite 91XG. (Will need to find a good balun, as many of the original designs had reported problems)

3) Lastly, the existing Channel Master rotator works fine.

- Would you replace this when the installer is onsite to help prevent a problem in the future, as he is already onsite?

This system is for my 75 year old parents, and wanted to inquire some feedback.

Thank you.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...6/DSC04966.jpg
http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...6/DSC04975.jpg
http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...6/DSC04982.jpg
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post #1957 of 1982 Old 12-31-2015, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCTools View Post
Looking for some feedback, as my top UHF antenna fell down.

Thinking about replacing the VIP-307SR with the (just) a Channel 7 - 13 antenna. Unfortunately, the only VHF high bander I could find is the Stellar Labs 30-2476.
Replacing the 8 year old VHF antenna is probably a good precaution, given the complications of bringing in an installer again. I would think a lot about keeping low-VHF capability though. The FCC incentive and repacking plans might convince one of the local stations to take the $$ and move to the low band in a year or two.
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post #1958 of 1982 Old 01-01-2016, 07:29 AM
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As requested in the sticky above please put your location in the title and provide a link to your TV Fool report in all antenna threads whether you think it's necessary or not. The very first question I have is why do you have a large low VHF antenna up on a tower? Is it just a holdover from the analog days? Is getting rid of low VHF capability the right thing for you? Your TV Fool report would answer that.

Stellar Labs has this one too:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...eo+retargeting
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post #1959 of 1982 Old 01-01-2016, 07:57 AM
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Anyone test the gain of the 12 element Stellar against the 10 element now discontinued Antennacraft? The specs listed are 16 to 9 in favor of the Stellar. How accurate is that?
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post #1960 of 1982 Old 01-01-2016, 09:48 AM
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Gents,

The Delhi is from an install around 8 years ago. This was the best made Channel 2-13 antenna in the market at the time.

I am planning on purchasing the 7-13 antenna listed in my first post for the VHF portion.

For UHF, I am thinking about using an 91XG, DB8, or a horizontally stacked 91XG.

Any feedback would be great.

Thank you so much.
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post #1961 of 1982 Old 01-01-2016, 11:21 AM
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Please post a link to your TV Fool report because it contains information not available in the image alone.

What stations are you trying to receive? The stations in green don't require a large antenna. A Winegard HD7694P would be enough.
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post #1962 of 1982 Old 01-01-2016, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Please post a link to your TV Fool report because it contains information not available in the image alone.

What stations are you trying to receive? The stations in green don't require a large antenna. A Winegard HD7694P would be enough.
Let's try this...

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b97da039a73bbd
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post #1963 of 1982 Old 01-01-2016, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCTools View Post

The terrain plots for your entire list have no mountains to go over. Your only limiting factor is vegetation and the Earth itself.

Once again, what stations on the list do you want to receive? The stations in green do not require a large antenna.
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post #1964 of 1982 Old 01-01-2016, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
The terrain plots for your entire list have no mountains to go over. Your only limiting factor is vegetation and the Earth itself.

Once again, what stations on the list do you want to receive? The stations in green do not require a large antenna.
The television stations in Detroit.

That is Channel 20, 50, 56, 62.

And lastly, do you think this would require stacking the 91XG's to attempt this long pull?

Thanks
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post #1965 of 1982 Old 01-01-2016, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCTools View Post
The television stations in Detroit.

That is Channel 20, 50, 56, 62.

And lastly, do you think this would require stacking the 91XG's to attempt this long pull?

Thanks

Did you ever receive those stations when the old UHF antenna was working? Do you receive channel 7 now with the VHF antenna?

If you never received any of the Detroit UHF stations then it's unlikely that two 91XGs will do it.

After you answer those questions, we can go from there.
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post #1966 of 1982 Old 02-01-2016, 03:06 AM
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Bay View, OH - HDTV

I am located in Bay View, Ohio. Pretty much equidistant from Cleveland, Toledo and Detroit Towers.
I currently have a borrowed Clear Stream 2V antenna pointed ~ 330magnetic (Best for 13). In this configuration I receive. VirtualChannels 13,24,30,36 and 52 relatively consistently. Channel11 is intermittent unless I change direction to ~ 300 degrees.
I have also tried a DB4 antenna which gave stronger results (I do not currently have it so I cannot provide detail at this time)
Secondary;
I would love to be able to receive ION (50 in Detroit or 23 in Cleveland) The Cleveland Direction has a rather large oak tree ~ 40'.

I have been considering a DB8e ( @ 300, 330 degrees to improve 11,13)
or
A combination which includes a 91XG to attempt to pick up the Ion Channel

My concern is that with the 91XG I may have to constantly adjust the direction ona per channel basis.
( I am confused that 11 and 13 are so sensitive to direction when TV Fool gives the same heading)

TVFool:
20 ft: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5134a8dfd5764d

30 ft: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...51348f2073de5d

Last edited by DrDon; 02-01-2016 at 05:19 AM.
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post #1967 of 1982 Old 02-01-2016, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanWentworth View Post
I am located in Bay View, Ohio. Pretty much equidistant from Cleveland, Toledo and Detroit Towers.
I currently have a borrowed Clear Stream 2V antenna pointed ~ 330magnetic (Best for 13). In this configuration I receive. VirtualChannels 13,24,30,36 and 52 relatively consistently. Channel11 is intermittent unless I change direction to ~ 300 degrees.
I have also tried a DB4 antenna which gave stronger results (I do not currently have it so I cannot provide detail at this time)
Secondary;
I would love to be able to receive ION (50 in Detroit or 23 in Cleveland) The Cleveland Direction has a rather large oak tree ~ 40'.

I have been considering a DB8e ( @ 300, 330 degrees to improve 11,13)
or
A combination which includes a 91XG to attempt to pick up the Ion Channel

My concern is that with the 91XG I may have to constantly adjust the direction ona per channel basis.
( I am confused that 11 and 13 are so sensitive to direction when TV Fool gives the same heading)

TVFool:
20 ft: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5134a8dfd5764d

30 ft: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...51348f2073de5d
This thread is pretty much dead. Last post was over a year ago, by me. But I'll try to help you out.

First, the DB4, DB8 & 91XG are all UHF antennas. WTOL and WTVG broadcast in the Hi-VHF band, which means you need a combo UHF/VHF antenna or a standalone Hi-VHF antenna connected to your UHF antenna in order to get the best reception from those stations. The VHF antenna might also help you receive WJW and WOIO if you are interested in receiving the Cleveland stations as well.

Your best bet is to go with a 91XG (top) and pair it with a long range VHF antenna along with a rotor so you can switch between Toledo, Detroit and Cleveland/Akron as all these markets are highly directional in your area. Use RG-6 coaxial cable in your setup for the best possible reception.

Newer is not always better.
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post #1968 of 1982 Old 02-02-2016, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
This thread is pretty much dead. Last post was over a year ago, by me. But I'll try to help you out.

First, the DB4, DB8 & 91XG are all UHF antennas. WTOL and WTVG broadcast in the Hi-VHF band, which means you need a combo UHF/VHF antenna or a standalone Hi-VHF antenna connected to your UHF antenna in order to get the best reception from those stations. The VHF antenna might also help you receive WJW and WOIO if you are interested in receiving the Cleveland stations as well.

Your best bet is to go with a 91XG (top) and pair it with a long range VHF antenna along with a rotor so you can switch between Toledo, Detroit and Cleveland/Akron as all these markets are highly directional in your area. Use RG-6 coaxial cable in your setup for the best possible reception.
Thanks for the response!

I overlooked that WTOL and WTVG were in the HiVHF Band.
These are my primary concern as they are the local news channels and the predominant weather pattern comes from that direction.

I order the Stellar Labs VHF-Hi Directional Antenna (30-2475) and the Stellar Labs UHF\VHF Combiner (33-2230) from MCM as a start. (Had another order ready)
I think I will be experimenting with an antenna stack as time goes on...

I noticed that some other contributors have had issues with FM stations and VHF Hi antenna's would you know what criteria gives cause for concern?

I cannot seem to post the FMFool report...
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post #1969 of 1982 Old 03-15-2016, 09:30 AM
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I am able to receive CH. 7 out of DTW on the VHF antenna

In reference to the UHF side, the 9032 was not a very good antenna. It was able to get some DTW.

I am in the process of taking down the Delhi and replacing with the Stellar Labs.

The mounting bracket on the 9032 rusted out, with the antenna hanging in the air.

Will install a new 91XG, 30-246, rotor and a pre-amp.

Too bad, I cannot find anymore of the vintage CM 7777 with the separate preamp inputs. (Any suggestions of another pre-amp and or a good diplexer?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Did you ever receive those stations when the old UHF antenna was working? Do you receive channel 7 now with the VHF antenna?

If you never received any of the Detroit UHF stations then it's unlikely that two 91XGs will do it.

After you answer those questions, we can go from there.
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post #1970 of 1982 Old 03-15-2016, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
The television stations in Detroit.

That is Channel 20, 50, 56, 62.
You are making it hard for us; are those virtual channel numbers (which should be in decimal form)?

20 WMYD MyN, real channel 21, virtual channel 20.1

50 WKBD CW, real channel 14, virtual channel 50.1

56 WTVS PBS, real channel 43, virtual 56.1

62 WWJ CBS, real channel 44, virtual channel 62.1
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=zip_search&zipcode=48226&miles= 60&address=&lat=&lon=&dbtype=dBm&height=

Quote:
Will install a new 91XG, 30-246, rotor and a pre-amp.
30-2476?
91XG, easiest
DB8e, a little more gain if both panels are aimed in the same direction
2-91XGs, a lot of trouble for a little more gain

Quote:
(Any suggestions of another pre-amp and or a good diplexer?)
Was a preamp ever used?

The new CM7777 with a single input will be overloaded by the local signals. If you must have a preamp, the Antennas Direct Juice resists overload.

UHF/VHF diplexer
Most any UVSJ or the Antennas Direct
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store..._combiner.html
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If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #1971 of 1982 Old 03-15-2016, 11:48 AM
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An FM filter might be needed. The Juice doesn't have one, but it doesn't usually need one. It does, however, have a 4G LTE filter. The CM7778 does, but it doesn't resist overload as well as the Juice.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/f...a/Radar-FM.png

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post #1972 of 1982 Old 03-15-2016, 12:00 PM
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merged

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post #1973 of 1982 Old 03-15-2016, 01:09 PM
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I have been using the 91XG's for years and love them. I had a 9032, and they simply do not have enough gain to pull in DTW.

I disagree agree about overloading as my existing rig, did not have any issues with channel overloading with the 9032 and monster VIP-307 at 50' in the air.

It would be nice is Channel 11 and 13, would simply convert to the UHF band. Then, I would have no need for the VHF antenna.

In the Toledo area it seems that hardly anyone does antenna repair nowadays. Any suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
You are making it hard for us; are those virtual channel numbers (which should be in decimal form)?

20 WMYD MyN, real channel 21, virtual channel 20.1

50 WKBD CW, real channel 14, virtual channel 50.1

56 WTVS PBS, real channel 43, virtual 56.1

62 WWJ CBS, real channel 44, virtual channel 62.1
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=zip_search&zipcode=48226&miles= 60&address=&lat=&lon=&dbtype=dBm&height=

30-2476?
91XG, easiest
DB8e, a little more gain if both panels are aimed in the same direction
2-91XGs, a lot of trouble for a little more gain

Was a preamp ever used?

The new CM7777 with a single input will be overloaded by the local signals. If you must have a preamp, the Antennas Direct Juice resists overload.

UHF/VHF diplexer
Most any UVSJ or the Antennas Direct
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store..._combiner.html
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post #1974 of 1982 Old 03-16-2016, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCTools View Post
I disagree agree about overloading as my existing rig, did not have any issues with channel overloading with the 9032 and monster VIP-307 at 50' in the air.
I understand. I can only go by your report, which is only a computer simulation, and the CM specs for the new 7777. It is possible that the signals are weaker than predicted by the report because of terrain interference.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3db97da039a73bb d

The math:

WUPW -31.4 dBm
Max input of new 7777 = 15 dBmV = -34 dBm; overload
http://www.channelmaster.com/TV_Antenna_Preamplifier_p/cm-7777.htm
Quote:
The Titan 2 High Gain Preamplifier is recommended for professional installers only. Due to the high gain output of this product, it can result in over amplification if not used in the appropriate scenario. Over amplification can cause issues with the television tuner’s ability to receive and display some or all channels.
WUPW -31.4 dBm + estimated ant gain 10dB = -21.4 dBm, preamp overload of 12.6 dB

Even with the 7778 and a 91XG there is the possibility of tuner overload:
7778 Max input level 34 dBmV = -15 dBm

WUPW -31.4 dBm + 14 dBd 91XG = -17.4 dBm; preamp OK
WUPW -31.4 dBm + 14 dBd 91XG + 16 dB preamp gain = -1.4 dBm; tuner overload


ATSC Recommended Practice:
Receiver Performance Guidelines
Document A/74:2010, 7 April 2010

RECEIVER PERFORMANCE GUIDELINES

5.1 Sensitiviy

Quote:
A DTV receiver should achieve a bit error rate in the transport stream of no worse than 3x10E-6 (i.e., the FCC Advisory Committee on Advanced Television Service, ACATS, Threshold of Visibility, TOV) for input RF signal levels directly to the tuner from –83 dBm to –5 dBm for both the VHF and UHF bands.
5.2 Multi-Signal Overload

Quote:
The DTV receiver should accommodate more than one undesired, high-level, NSTC or DTV signal at its input, received from transmission facilities that are in close proximity to one another. For purposes of this guideline, it should be assumed that multiple signals, each approaching –8 dBm, will exist at the input of the receiver.
The new 7777 not only has only one input, but has a gain of 30 dB and is more easily overloaded. There is such a thing as too much gain; it is only suitable for locations where ALL the signals are weak. CM had to add the warning to the description because they had so many returns from people who should have ordered the 7778 instead. You only need enough gain to offset distribution losses.

I would rather warn you of possible overload than to have you order the wrong preamp and wonder why it doesn't help.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #1975 of 1982 Old 03-18-2016, 06:55 PM
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Protective Coating Antennas???

Well, doing an install at my parents home and wanted to quickly post a thought...

I pulled down one of my older 91XG's and the reflectors were discolored with a rainbow effect. Some of the elements used to be golden and now are silver finish.

Has anyone applied Rust-Oleum Gloss Clear on new antennas to help preserve the finish from the environmental elements?

http://www.rustoleum.com/product-cat...over-2x/clear/

I talked to the guys at Rust-Oleum and they recommended two products for outdoor antennas.

1) The Ultra Cover 2x Clear Spray - Safe on plastics, UV protective, and will not discolor
2) RUST-OLEUM® NEVERWET® Liquid Repelling Treatment

The NeverWet would help out with ice bulid-up. Application last about two years, wear the Gloss Clear application has a longer life-span.

http://www.rustoleum.com/en/Rustoleu...t/neverwet-kit


Any thoughts...

Last edited by PCTools; 03-18-2016 at 07:01 PM.
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post #1976 of 1982 Old 06-15-2016, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PCTools View Post
Well, doing an install at my parents home and wanted to quickly post a thought...

I pulled down one of my older 91XG's and the reflectors were discolored with a rainbow effect. Some of the elements used to be golden and now are silver finish.

Has anyone applied Rust-Oleum Gloss Clear on new antennas to help preserve the finish from the environmental elements?

http://www.rustoleum.com/product-cat...over-2x/clear/

I talked to the guys at Rust-Oleum and they recommended two products for outdoor antennas.

1) The Ultra Cover 2x Clear Spray - Safe on plastics, UV protective, and will not discolor
2) RUST-OLEUM® NEVERWET® Liquid Repelling Treatment

The NeverWet would help out with ice bulid-up. Application last about two years, wear the Gloss Clear application has a longer life-span.

http://www.rustoleum.com/en/Rustoleu...t/neverwet-kit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMGWk-AmhaE

Any thoughts...
Not sure about it being a protective coating, but I was told that antennas that were sprayed gold absorb the signal better, improving reception. I don't know if that's true or not. I have an antenna that was on my neighbor's house since the 80's, and the gold coating is so faded and weathered that it now looks like it's silver, but I don't believe there are any "rainbows" on the elements.

Has anyone ever seen blue elements? I think that's the protective manufacturing/shipping film that the homeowner neglected to remove.

Newer is not always better.
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post #1977 of 1982 Old 07-14-2016, 07:31 PM
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Anyone here watch Me-TV on WTOL 11.2? If so, please answer these questions...

  • Is the hourly ID sequence sometimes ending with "Chicago" or "a-go"?
  • Is the WTOL 11.2 watermark constantly displayed on the screen during commercials?
  • Does the network randomly freeze/blackout at times?

I'm trying to troubleshoot these issues and figure out if it's a problem with the network or a problem with my local affiliate, but since the tropo hasn't been up lately, I can't pick up WTOL and see for myself. Please let me know so I can notify the network or my local affiliate about these issues.

Newer is not always better.
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post #1978 of 1982 Old 07-16-2016, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Anyone here watch Me-TV on WTOL 11.2? If so, please answer these questions...

  • Is the hourly ID sequence sometimes ending with "Chicago" or "a-go"?
  • Is the WTOL 11.2 watermark constantly displayed on the screen during commercials?
  • Does the network randomly freeze/blackout at times?

I'm trying to troubleshoot these issues and figure out if it's a problem with the network or a problem with my local affiliate, but since the tropo hasn't been up lately, I can't pick up WTOL and see for myself. Please let me know so I can notify the network or my local affiliate about these issues.

1) No haven't heard that
2) No, just during the programs
3) No

I would say it was your local affiliate.
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post #1979 of 1982 Old 08-17-2016, 03:09 AM
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Cutting the cord. Not sure if this is the right place for this. Anyone here cut the cord from Buckeye and went to streaming content instead? If yes what are your experiences and how did you do it? Thanks!
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post #1980 of 1982 Old 08-17-2016, 07:33 AM
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Cutting the cord. Not sure if this is the right place for this. Anyone here cut the cord from Buckeye and went to streaming content instead? If yes what are your experiences and how did you do it? Thanks!
It's not a bad experience although I did miss just turning on the TV to see what was on. It requires less effort when you don't know what you want to watch but you just want to sit down and watch something.

But I have Hulu and Netflix and spend most of my TV time watching Hulu or OTA (news, Olympics).

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