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post #10681 of 10701 Old 09-04-2014, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kristi1 View Post
I cannot stick anything out the window. not allowed. Eviction. If I could I would have to go straight out maybe 20' and then right angles to that. Not practical in any situation.
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/installing...tellite-dishes


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post #10682 of 10701 Old 09-05-2014, 04:48 AM
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As the owner of a WISP (wireless internet service provider) I've had to pull this law a few times with building owners...unfortunately too many renters are "unwilling to rock" the boat regarding their right to install an antenna.
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post #10683 of 10701 Old 09-05-2014, 07:54 AM
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While the law may say you can install an outdoor antenna, it doesn't mean that the landowner, homeowner's association, neighbors, or whoever the problem party is, won't make your life a living hell one way or another if you do force the issue. There's certainly no harm in pointing out the law to the problem party if they say no after asking nicely, but how far you push it needs to consider things other than "it's my right, you're wrong."
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post #10684 of 10701 Old 09-05-2014, 09:09 AM
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While the law may say you can install an outdoor antenna, it doesn't mean that the landowner, homeowner's association, neighbors, or whoever the problem party is, won't make your life a living hell one way or another if you do force the issue. There's certainly no harm in pointing out the law to the problem party if they say no after asking nicely, but how far you push it needs to consider things other than "it's my right, you're wrong."
I have never had to do this, but I suspect the level of acceptance has a lot to do with approach. Even the FCC will not let you install an antenna if it impacts others' use of a shared area. You also do not have a right to impact the structure.

First thing I would do is approach the landlord/HOA about putting an antenna on the structure. You could offer to make it available to others by placing a splitter and amp in an attic space. That would add value to the property. If that was not warmly received, I would petition the governing body by asking other tenants to support your request. You could offer to share the antenna with them. If that did not work, I would discretely inform the governing body that the FCC protects an individual's right to receive broadcast television and share a copy of the law.

Even in Cambridge, I can't imagine this would be fought.


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post #10685 of 10701 Old 09-05-2014, 09:25 AM
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Talking

a) agreed - no point in upsetting the property owner.

b) I sympathize with the building owner since if everyone here were allowed to stick an antenna out the window the building would quickly look very ugly.

c) I've proven I don't really need to as I get good enough without it.

d) embarking on any antenna project is always an unknown, especially in a city where reflections are unknown and variable.

e) omnidirectional never is.

f) since I am only receiving, not transmitting, I can get away with massive impedance mismatches and create very unconventional antennas.

g) digital allows us to be even more unconventional - analog needed a balanced, single source. reflections were a bane. digital doesn't care.

(currently using a ~20' unbalanced horizontal monopole (#26 insulated wire) ) (the walmart-rca $15 amp seems to work infinitesimally better than the Terk amp)

(like smart phones and computers, this is a toy - never take it too seriously!)
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post #10686 of 10701 Old 09-08-2014, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Kristi1 View Post
(currently using a ~20' unbalanced horizontal monopole (#26 insulated wire) ) (the walmart-rca $15 amp seems to work infinitesimally better than the Terk amp)
Way to go Kris! Sometimes we get a little too caught up with "takin' on the man", pushing the FCC for OTA rights or optimal antennas for long range. If more urban people would just stick a long wire on the end of their TVs perhaps OTA could get a few million more users which would be better for everyone.
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post #10687 of 10701 Old 09-08-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DocSmith View Post
Way to go Kris! Sometimes we get a little too caught up with "takin' on the man", pushing the FCC for OTA rights or optimal antennas for long range. If more urban people would just stick a long wire on the end of their TVs perhaps OTA could get a few million more users which would be better for everyone.
Yep - a folded dipole just doesn't do it. But I found I had to put my wire up near the ceiling to prevent my walking around from interfering with the signal - so tv to amp to coax to near ceiling, then wire in center conductor. I still get some variability in some channels, and those channels change by day. But that's life in a building and in a city - there's a lot going on between me and their towers! Again, it was very serendipitous that I stumbled into it.

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post #10688 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 07:47 AM
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So, I'm about ready to cut the cord, but need some advise on a good antenna.

My setup is 2x HD Homerun Duals, for a total of 4 tuners. Those feed a HTPC which feed 3 Xbox 360 extenders.

I'm coming from a Ceton 4 tuner setup with cable card, so I wanted to keep 4 tuners.

I currently have 2 of those amazon flat antennas taped to a SE window (one to each HDHR) just to get things running. Reception is pretty good, but not always perfect. I need to get perfect reception on the major channels (2/4/5/7/25/38/56) to make the wife happy, so I think a roof antenna is the best bet. I just don't know what to get.

I do own the home and I'm not afraid to attach the antenna to the chimney (2 story).. I just don't want anything crazy huge, but I also don't want to make a mistake and wish I got something better.

What should I get for an antenna, and would an amp help (if so, what amp)?

Thanks!
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post #10689 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 08:32 AM
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Dexter999,

Please post the LINK to your plot instead of an image of it. Follow the instruction on the webpage above the plot.

If you want to attach a very useful image, take a photo from the prospective antenna mounting location in the direction of Newton (229° magnetic) and post that photo. It will show an "antenna view" of the incoming signal path.

Are you interested in anything besides the "Boston" stations?

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post #10690 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 09:56 AM
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That's a pretty delicious TVFool plot. Which stations would you like to receive? If you are just looking for Boston stations, you could put just about anything on your roof or in your attic and pick up every english language channel down to WLVI by pointing to 228 as those are all LOS (Line of Sight) to you.

If you are not on a tight budget, I like the DB8e a lot because you can spread the grids a bit to widen the beam. You may need to do this to get 66 reliably and 66 has some english language sub stations like Bounce, Escape, and getTV.

I would start with an antenna and a coax that will reach one of your HDHRs. You can use this to point the antenna and gauge your reception to determine if an amp is necessary.

Slightly off topic, is there any reason why you would not run coax directly from the antenna to your televisions?


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post #10691 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
Dexter999,

Please post the LINK to your plot instead of an image of it. Follow the instruction on the webpage above the plot.

If you want to attach a very useful image, take a photo from the prospective antenna mounting location in the direction of Newton (229° magnetic) and post that photo. It will show an "antenna view" of the incoming signal path.

Are you interested in anything besides the "Boston" stations?
Sorry, here's the link..

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243d53f03228f

Basically, just the local Boston stations is all I need. Currently, I'm getting minor tiling on 5 and 7, can't get 56 at all.
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post #10692 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
That's a pretty delicious TVFool plot. Which stations would you like to receive? If you are just looking for Boston stations, you could put just about anything on your roof or in your attic and pick up every english language channel down to WLVI by pointing to 228 as those are all LOS (Line of Sight) to you.

If you are not on a tight budget, I like the DB8e a lot because you can spread the grids a bit to widen the beam. You may need to do this to get 66 reliably and 66 has some english language sub stations like Bounce, Escape, and getTV.

I would start with an antenna and a coax that will reach one of your HDHRs. You can use this to point the antenna and gauge your reception to determine if an amp is necessary.

Slightly off topic, is there any reason why you would not run coax directly from the antenna to your televisions?
Thanks.. Both HDHRs are in the same location (connected to a switch in a media closet).

The reason for not running Coax to each tv is.. With the HDHR's and a media center PC with Xbox extenders, I can pause live tv anywhere, have a multi room DVR & access all my media from one interface that's the same on each TV.. the wife likes that sort of thing
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post #10693 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 11:24 AM
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I was just curious. Anyway, if the DB8e does not sound expensive to you, I would go with that. If you can put it in your attic, you will find service easier, less issues with weather, and an easier setup (no grounding).


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post #10694 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 11:43 AM
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I was just curious. Anyway, if the DB8e does not sound expensive to you, I would go with that. If you can put it in your attic, you will find service easier, less issues with weather, and an easier setup (no grounding).
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but the DB8e says it's UHF. Don't I need VHF/UHF? Or do the "real" channel numbers mean they're all above 14 and UHF anyway?

Also.. Mounting it in the attic is definitely an option, but would snow on the roof in the winter kill my reception?
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post #10695 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 12:22 PM
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but the DB8e says it's UHF. Don't I need VHF/UHF? Or do the "real" channel numbers mean they're all above 14 and UHF anyway?
2-6 are VHF-Low, 7-13 are VHF-Hi, and >13 are UHF. Those are 'real' channels. There are no Boston VHF stations. You have a couple in New Hampshire and Rhode Island. The DB8e and similar antennas pick up VHF-Hi channels. If you want to pick up WMUR/WENH in New Hampshire, I would couple a Y10-7-13 pointed to 324. If you are looking for RI VHF, point the same antenna to 205. If you want both, get a second y10-7-13 and put one on each HDHR. That's why the conversation starts with a careful consideration of what channels you want to watch. Anything is possible as long as you have enough money.
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Also.. Mounting it in the attic is definitely an option, but would snow on the roof in the winter kill my reception?
Maybe. Asphault, plywood, snow, and even rain can affect signal quality. A metal roof will kill your signal. I shoot through my peak and avoid the metal screen on my vent. That works well.

Use a compass to see what you will be 'looking' through. I almost always recommend trying the attic just for the reasons I mentioned earlier. If a storm takes out your roof antenna, you may be down until spring.

I actually have a DB8e and a y5-7-13 on my roof and a pair of 91XGs and a y10-7-13 in my attic. I switch back and forth in the basement.
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post #10696 of 10701 Old 09-14-2014, 04:23 PM
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Also.. Mounting it in the attic is definitely an option, but would snow on the roof in the winter kill my reception?
YMMV, but I've never found snow to create any reception issues and have had an antenna in the attic for 12+ years now.
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post #10697 of 10701 Old 09-15-2014, 03:37 AM
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what kind of antenna do you have in your attic?


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post #10698 of 10701 Old 09-15-2014, 04:32 AM
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Thanks Wizwor.. I've ordered a DB8e. I will try mounting it in my attic and see how it goes.

I appreciate all the information!
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post #10699 of 10701 Old 09-15-2014, 04:38 AM
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what kind of antenna do you have in your attic?
It's a Winegard CA-7210. I went with a VHF/UHF antenna at the time because there was still some uncertainty around whether any of the Boston stations would stay on VHF or if they would all be UHF. This antenna can also be used for FM radio, which simplified cabling.

The feed goes down to a central point in the basement where all the coax and CAT5/CAT6 cables are run to. The antenna feed then goes to an amp and a 16 way splitter. The splitter feeds a bunch of tuners including HDHomeRuns, several internal TV tuner cards in one of my PC's, and then has several long runs to other rooms to be used for the tuners in the TV's and my FM tuner. There's probably no real need to have the tuners in my TV's hooked up at this point, but it's nice to know that if I'm having issues with my PC's, I have a backup option.

The PC's also have access to a pair of Ceton InfiniTV ETH network tuners, which give me a total of 12 CableCard tuners.

I don't think I'm likely to run into a situation where I don't have enough tuners to record and watch everything I want on any given night.
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post #10700 of 10701 Old 09-15-2014, 08:49 AM
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It's a Winegard CA-7210. I went with a VHF/UHF antenna at the time because there was still some uncertainty around whether any of the Boston stations would stay on VHF or if they would all be UHF. This antenna can also be used for FM radio, which simplified cabling.
I started out with a DB8 in my attic. It pulled in WENH (11), but not WMUR. Very happy with that. Then I replaced the DB8 with a 91XG which helped with distant channels, but did not pull in either VHF station, so I added a Y5-7-13 and there was much happiness in the kingdom. Right now, I have a DB8e and the Y5-7-13 on a mast outside and a pair of 91XGs with a y10-7-13 in the attic.

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The feed goes down to a central point in the basement where all the coax and CAT5/CAT6 cables are run to. The antenna feed then goes to an amp and a 16 way splitter. The splitter feeds a bunch of tuners including HDHomeRuns, several internal TV tuner cards in one of my PC's, and then has several long runs to other rooms to be used for the tuners in the TV's and my FM tuner. There's probably no real need to have the tuners in my TV's hooked up at this point, but it's nice to know that if I'm having issues with my PC's, I have a backup option.

The PC's also have access to a pair of Ceton InfiniTV ETH network tuners, which give me a total of 12 CableCard tuners.

I don't think I'm likely to run into a situation where I don't have enough tuners to record and watch everything I want on any given night.
I couple/amplify at the antenna then split twice in the basement. My house was pre-wired with RG6, so I have homeruns from a distribution amp (eda2800). I also have six Simple DVRs and a HDHR in the basement. Most of my tvs have DTVPals on top which I like for DVR functions (rewind/fast forward/slow motion), ad hoc recording, and their PSIP EPG.


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post #10701 of 10701 Old 09-15-2014, 05:23 PM
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Thanks Wizwor.. I've ordered a DB8e. I will try mounting it in my attic and see how it goes.

I appreciate all the information!
You're welcome. I think you will appreciate the innovation and construction. I find spending a little more on an antenna makes more difference than spending a little more on just about anything else.


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