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post #10921 of 10950 Old 05-31-2016, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post
Well, I now have two Escape channels and am about to lose NBC. This is seriously irritating!

I doubt that ch 66 would be able to move away from Escape until the current contract expires, and when might that be?

With respect to losing NBC, my understanding is that the judge ruled that the station owner did not have standing, thus leaving the door open for a class action suit of viewers who DID have standing to take action. Does anyone have interest in making that happen?
Ch 25 and 66 are in the same market (Boston). It is unusual to have 2 stations carrying the same subchannel, so 66 will probably be losing Escape soon. Ch 25 certainly would expect to have it exclusively.

Many people assume that NBC will end up on the weak signal of the Telemundo Ch 60 transmitter, and that hasn't been stated. Per several stories, Comcast has been exploring options with the owners of Chs 62 and 68, which both have signal coverage equal to WHDH.
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post #10922 of 10950 Old 06-01-2016, 09:06 PM
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WMFP 62-1 is now SBN, not Cozi TV.
Cozi will be missed on Directv, we already have SBN.

According to the Cozi Facebook page, Cozi is now 62-3, but I am going to assume that is a typo since WMFP always ran the "real" Cozi TV on 62-2 and why move it?

Last edited by ejb1980; 06-01-2016 at 09:31 PM.
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post #10923 of 10950 Old 06-01-2016, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
WMFP 62-1 is now SBN, not Cozi TV.
Cozi will be missed on Directv, we already have SBN.
Same with FIOS
Personally I think it is just a fillin with NBC Boston hitting there on Jan 1st
Also an incentive for FIOS and Comcast to carry the subchannels
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post #10924 of 10950 Old 06-02-2016, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
WMFP 62-1 is now SBN, not Cozi TV.
Cozi will be missed on Directv, we already have SBN.

According to the Cozi Facebook page, Cozi is now 62-3, but I am going to assume that is a typo since WMFP always ran the "real" Cozi TV on 62-2 and why move it?
Right now:
62-1 SBN (720p)
62-2 Cozi (480i)
62-3 The Works (480i)
62-4 Comet (480i)
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post #10925 of 10950 Old 06-02-2016, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
Right now:
62-1 SBN (720p)
62-2 Cozi (480i)
62-3 The Works (480i)
62-4 Comet (480i)
Is Cozi also on WNEU 60-3? They made it seem like it was moving to WNEU, they wrote 60-3 on their Facebook page.
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post #10926 of 10950 Old 06-03-2016, 05:46 PM
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Is Cozi also on WNEU 60-3? They made it seem like it was moving to WNEU, they wrote 60-3 on their Facebook page.
RabbitEars.info lists Cozi on WNEU 60-3, as does Wikipedia. I can't receive WNEU, so I can't check it myself. Cozi and WNEU are both owned by Comcast / NBC Universal, which is of course, taking over the NBC affiliation from WHDH, so this can produce all kinds of speculation about what might be happening.

Just to make this even weirder - now that WMFP has changed 62-1 to SBN /SonLife, that has replaced Cozi as the must-carry subchannel. Therefore Comcast systems now are carrying SBN instead of Cozi.
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post #10927 of 10950 Old 06-03-2016, 07:06 PM
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I wonder if they will mirror NBC Boston (be it WMFP or whatever) on WNEU to bring NBC clearer to the Manchester area...
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post #10928 of 10950 Old 06-03-2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
RabbitEars.info lists Cozi on WNEU 60-3, as does Wikipedia. I can't receive WNEU, so I can't check it myself. Cozi and WNEU are both owned by Comcast / NBC Universal, which is of course, taking over the NBC affiliation from WHDH, so this can produce all kinds of speculation about what might be happening.

Just to make this even weirder - now that WMFP has changed 62-1 to SBN /SonLife, that has replaced Cozi as the must-carry subchannel. Therefore Comcast systems now are carrying SBN instead of Cozi.
It's the same on Directv. 62 is SBN in HD. But we already have SBN's national feed and we'll never see the Cozi subchannel.
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post #10929 of 10950 Old 06-04-2016, 07:57 PM
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It's the same on Directv. 62 is SBN in HD. But we already have SBN's national feed and we'll never see the Cozi subchannel.
Since DirecTV carries very few subchannels, that's probably true. OTOH, when it filters thru the Comcast bureaucracy, they will probably want Cozi back on their Boston area systems, and will probably add 60-3.

And to add to long list of oddites - it you go to the Cozi channel-find page at: http://www.cozitv.com/get-cozi-tv/
and enter any Boston area Zip - it still shows 62-1, but the "On Now" and "On Tonight" highlights boxes show the SBN programming....
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post #10930 of 10950 Old 06-06-2016, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
Ch 25 and 66 are in the same market (Boston). It is unusual to have 2 stations carrying the same subchannel, so 66 will probably be losing Escape soon. Ch 25 certainly would expect to have it exclusively.

Many people assume that NBC will end up on the weak signal of the Telemundo Ch 60 transmitter, and that hasn't been stated. Per several stories, Comcast has been exploring options with the owners of Chs 62 and 68, which both have signal coverage equal to WHDH.
I'm afraid I've been in markets before where the same subchannel was carried for years. As I said in my original post, I think we will have two Escape channels until someone's contract runs out or is bought out, and I don't think there is any guarantee that will happen anytime soon.

I don't get Ch 60, not even close to receiving it. 62 does seem desperate for programming, having changed subchannels regularly in the past. But if it does go to 62, I hope they don't bump Comet because I really love that channel. I do receive ch 66 but since it's the only non-english channel that I receive in my area, I somehow they they would not bump it.

I just don't think that the FCC should allow the change of NBC away from ch 5 without some agreement in place guaranteeing that the Boston area will still get reasonable reception.
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post #10931 of 10950 Old 06-06-2016, 09:34 PM
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I'm afraid I've been in markets before where the same subchannel was carried for years. As I said in my original post, I think we will have two Escape channels until someone's contract runs out or is bought out, and I don't think there is any guarantee that will happen anytime soon.

I don't get Ch 60, not even close to receiving it. 62 does seem desperate for programming, having changed subchannels regularly in the past. But if it does go to 62, I hope they don't bump Comet because I really love that channel. I do receive ch 66 but since it's the only non-english channel that I receive in my area, I somehow they they would not bump it.

I just don't think that the FCC should allow the change of NBC away from ch 5 without some agreement in place guaranteeing that the Boston area will still get reasonable reception.
Escape, per info posted elsewhere, pays for coverage. They may not want to continue paying to be on 66-4, which is not carried on cable, while 25-2 is - once any contract they may have runs out.

Comet is also carried on WJAR 10-3, Providence, if you can receive that.
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post #10932 of 10950 Old 06-07-2016, 04:02 AM
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It's also possible that Katz will move Grit to 66-4 when the contract with WBIN ends.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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post #10933 of 10950 Old 06-07-2016, 03:58 PM
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It's also possible that Katz will move Grit to 66-4 when the contract with WBIN ends.

- Trip
WBIN, in whatever retransmission consent deal they have with Comcast, has all 3 subchannels carried - main, plus 50-2 (AntennaTV) and 50-3 (Grit). But 66-4 is not on Comcast, which is probably why Escape wanted WFXT 25-2, carried by Comcast.

And some of this may ultimately depend on where "NBC Boston" lands.
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post #10934 of 10950 Old 06-08-2016, 08:01 AM
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WBIN, in whatever retransmission consent deal they have with Comcast, has all 3 subchannels carried - main, plus 50-2 (AntennaTV) and 50-3 (Grit). But 66-4 is not on Comcast, which is probably why Escape wanted WFXT 25-2, carried by Comcast.

And some of this may ultimately depend on where "NBC Boston" lands.
It's interesting that WBIN gets so much cable coverage. They are on my brother's cable south of Boston. But WMUR and WENH are not.
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post #10935 of 10950 Old 06-08-2016, 11:24 AM
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No surprise. WBIN carries Antenna TV and Grit. WENH is redundant to WGBH/X and WMUR is redundant to WCVB/MeTV.
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post #10936 of 10950 Old 06-08-2016, 04:33 PM
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No surprise. WBIN carries Antenna TV and Grit. WENH is redundant to WGBH/X and WMUR is redundant to WCVB/MeTV.
WGBH/WENH are pretty much the same, but there are schedule variances sometimes. WMUR/WCVB have different afternoon and late-night schedules. WMUR and WCVB air Ellen and Meredith V. at different times and WCVB has longer local news.
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post #10937 of 10950 Old 06-08-2016, 04:42 PM
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It's interesting that WBIN gets so much cable coverage. They are on my brother's cable south of Boston. But WMUR and WENH are not.
WBIN probably isn't, and may not be able to get, much payment for retransmission consent - so they probably instead place the condition that the subchannels be carried.

Hearst-Argyle owns both WMUR and WCVB in Boston, and the programming is almost entirely the same, as Wizwor said, but with different local ads. Therefore WMUR would not likely grant retransmission consent much beyond the New Hampshire area, since WMUR viewers in the rest of the market would be missing the Boston-based ads on WCVB.

When WGBH took over operation (but not ownership) of WENH approximatley 3 years ago, WENH was pulled from most cable systems outside the New Hampshire area. It does mostly duplicate WGBH, and may have been pulled under the retransmission consent rules.
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post #10938 of 10950 Old 06-08-2016, 06:18 PM
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And yet WMUR and WCVB peacefully co-exist on satellite, from SE VT to the cape!
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post #10939 of 10950 Old 06-08-2016, 06:35 PM
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And yet WMUR and WCVB peacefully co-exist on satellite, from SE VT to the cape!
because they are licensed to different states they both qualify for must carry.
If there is more than one affiliate in a DMA, the satco's only need to carry one (they can carry both) even if owned by same folks. Thats why both WDAY (Fargo) and WDAZ (Grand Forks) are both carried (WDAZ is a semi-satellite of WDAY). Other examples of 2 affiliates but different owners are in Grand Rapids, MI (2 ABC), Tampa (ABC) and Lincoln/Grand Island, NE (ABC). Yet for Lexington, KY they only carry WKYT (CBS) and not WYMT, which is owned by same folks (Gray)

one note....if they are LICENSED (key word there) to different states they both are must carry.

That key word there is what got at one point KBJR NBC 6 in Duluth, MN and its satellite (sans a couple commercials and a 5 minute newspart) KRII on Dish/Directv. Even though KBJR has offices in Duluth and the transmitter is in Duluth, because they are licensed to Superior, WI (across the river) Dish and Directv carried both. They did cut a deal and dropped KRII and instead carry the CW subchannel (KDLH-DT2) in its place.
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post #10940 of 10950 Old 06-08-2016, 08:36 PM
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WBIN, WMFP and the PBS channels are all must carry.

I remember emailing WENH after the launch of WENH-HD on 11.1 and they said carrying the SD signal of 11.2 satisfies the must carry rule though Fios could carry 11.1 in HD if they wanted to which they did.

Comcast's dropping of ENH in MA and GBH in NH must be some kind of loophole. Its weird having the SD feed of Ch 11.1 on ch 2 and 11.2 NHPBS Explore on ch 11.
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post #10941 of 10950 Old 06-09-2016, 07:57 AM
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I've never understood the whole second PBS affiliate thing and cable. Here in Hartford County, CT, many, if not all, Comcast and Cox cable systems carry WGBY-TV channel 57 from Springfield, MA along side of WEDH-TV channel 24 from Hartford. For some reason, my mother's Frontier service in Berlin, CT carries WNET-TV channel 13 from Newark, NJ/New York City and WNJN-TV channel 50 from Montclair, NJ, but not WGBY-TV.

Does anybody here receive both WGBH-TV and WGBY-TV over the air? I would imagine it's possible in portions of Worcester County. I can't see cable carrying both of them, since they're in the same family like WGBH-TV and WENH-TV are. Would Worcester's cable system carry WSBE-TV channel 36 of Providence instead?
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post #10942 of 10950 Old 06-09-2016, 08:24 AM
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Comcast's dropping of ENH in MA and GBH in NH must be some kind of loophole. Its weird having the SD feed of Ch 11.1 on ch 2 and 11.2 NHPBS Explore on ch 11.
cable does not have to carry all the PBS stations in a market if there is more than one. Here in Minneapolis there are technically five PBS stations in the DMA (due to the market being huge...basically from Iowa border to almost Canada)
KTCA 2 & KTCA 17 (2-3) Minneapolis
KAWE 9 Bemidji (northern part of DMA...200 miles away)
KWCM 10 Appleton (western part of DMA...150 miles from Minneapolis
WHWC 28 Menominee, WI (covers the Eau Claire market but city of license is in the Minneapolis DMA)

WHWC gave up its must carry rights in Minneapolis market for satellite. Satellite carries the other 4 stations. Cable depending on location carries 1,2 or even 3 stations.

Minneapolis and surrounding areas (probably 50 miles) gets KTCA/KTCI
Western MN mainly gets KWCM only. There are some areas that will get KTCA too.
Northern MN is mainly KAWE. Very few areas areas get KTCA also
Western Wisconsin gets KTCA/KTCI and WHWC

Now reading the whole WGBH/NHPTV thing it looks like they carry the same programming now (have been since 2012) so why carry both if they basically duplicate the same PBS programming? Remember cable can pinpoint what locals to get. Satellite cant really do that in a market.
Article on the changes back in 2012
http://nashua.patch.com/articles/wbgh-dropping-from-comcast-lineup
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post #10943 of 10950 Old 06-09-2016, 05:07 PM
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Must-carry only applies if the station wants to be carried. If they invoke retransmission consent, they can place any conditions they want, or refuse to allow coverage. WMUR can make different arrangements with different cable systems depending on if they are in on near NH, but with Dish or DirecTv it is pretty much all or nothing in a market.

The PBS coverage is definitely peculiar. Comcast dropped WENH In Mass., when WGBH took over operation of WENH, and carries only WGBH / WGBX, and their subchannels in most of the Mass. part of the Boston market, but also includes Providence's WSBE and subchannels in many towns south of Boston.

FIOS lists all of them in their guide - WGBH / WGBX, WENH, and WSBE, plus the subchannels.

RCN lists only WGBH / WGBX.
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post #10944 of 10950 Old 06-09-2016, 07:50 PM
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Must-carry only applies if the station wants to be carried. If they invoke retransmission consent, they can place any conditions they want, or refuse to allow coverage. WMUR can make different arrangements with different cable systems depending on if they are in on near NH, but with Dish or DirecTv it is pretty much all or nothing in a market.

The PBS coverage is definitely peculiar. Comcast dropped WENH In Mass., when WGBH took over operation of WENH, and carries only WGBH / WGBX, and their subchannels in most of the Mass. part of the Boston market, but also includes Providence's WSBE and subchannels in many towns south of Boston.

FIOS lists all of them in their guide - WGBH / WGBX, WENH, and WSBE, plus the subchannels.

RCN lists only WGBH / WGBX.
FIOS in eastern Mass only carries the subchannels of WGBH and WGBX.
WENH and WSBE are covered in HD but only the .1 channels.

PBS stations cannot choose retransmission consent

The transmitter power of WBIN is only 7.3 kw less then HALF of WYCN-CD
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post #10945 of 10950 Old 06-10-2016, 10:21 AM
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I have seen WSBE on my brother's cable line-up in the guide and with programming information, but when I have visited, it is just a black screen. He says it's always like that.
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post #10946 of 10950 Old 06-10-2016, 04:36 PM
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FIOS in eastern Mass only carries the subchannels of WGBH and WGBX.
WENH and WSBE are covered in HD but only the .1 channels.

PBS stations cannot choose retransmission consent

The transmitter power of WBIN is only 7.3 kw less then HALF of WYCN-CD
WBIN's analog signal was 4790 KW ERP - and it had very good coverage. This was really the only Boston market station with a greatly reduced coverage area after the digital transition.
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post #10947 of 10950 Old 06-11-2016, 12:35 PM
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Cozi moved to WNEU? Looks like WMFP will be Boston's new NBC affiliate.

Last edited by wizwor; 06-12-2016 at 04:15 AM.
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post #10948 of 10950 Old 06-12-2016, 05:53 AM
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ESCAPE in Boston

ESCAPE is actually on 3 channels... 25-2, 66-4 and 6-2. Channel 6 is literally in New Bedford but is trreated as a Providence channel.
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post #10949 of 10950 Old 06-12-2016, 06:18 AM
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WLNE-TV is licensed to New Bedford, MA. However, I believe their digital transmitter is in Rehoboth, MA, close to those of NBC 10 and CBS 12, so coverage should be equal to them now. Their analog transmitter was in Tiverton, RI, as Rehoboth would've left them short spaced to WCSH-TV (NBC) channel 6 of Portland, ME. WCSH was on the air at least 10 years or so before WLNE was.

Getting back to Boston/Worcester...Is there a specific reason why WMFP-TV channel 62 is licensed to Lawrence, MA? Was their analog transmitter close to that city at the time?
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post #10950 of 10950 Old 06-12-2016, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KEVINL71 View Post
WLNE-TV is licensed to New Bedford, MA. However, I believe their digital transmitter is in Rehoboth, MA, close to those of NBC 10 and CBS 12, so coverage should be equal to them now. Their analog transmitter was in Tiverton, RI, as Rehoboth would've left them short spaced to WCSH-TV (NBC) channel 6 of Portland, ME. WCSH was on the air at least 10 years or so before WLNE was.

Getting back to Boston/Worcester...Is there a specific reason why WMFP-TV channel 62 is licensed to Lawrence, MA? Was their analog transmitter close to that city at the time?
When WMFP first signed on in the 80's their Ch 62 analog transmitter was near Lawrence. It was planned originally to be a local community station for North Shore towns. Later WMFP moved their transmitter to One Beacon St in Boston, which improved the signal coverage, but it was still limited by the height of that building. For their digital Ch 18 signal they chose one of the Needham towers, which gave them coverage equal to, or better than, the rest of the Boston market stations.
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