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post #10981 of 11009 Old 09-03-2016, 05:42 PM
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The FCC has not authorized new full-power TV stations since 1996, and is not about to any time soon.

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post #10982 of 11009 Old 09-03-2016, 06:37 PM
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Thanks for the map. It would allow decent signal around the city. Interesting info as always about the owner.

I have seen that weird blip near Foxborough, MA on other maps. I know there's no big mountains there, there really isn't much of anything there except Gillette Stadium. I figured the Patriots headset communication jammers caused some sort of force field that amplifies TV and radio signals.

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post #10983 of 11009 Old 09-03-2016, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
I have seen that weird blip near Foxborough, MA on other maps. I know there's no big mountains there, there really isn't much of anything there except Gillette Stadium. I figured the Patriots headset communication jammers caused some sort of force field that amplifies TV and radio signals.
It's actually just a hole in the terrain data that's used to generate those maps. I'm aware of three of them; that one, there's one near Myrtle Beach, SC which winds up not really mattering since the terrain is so flat and close to sea level there, and one that includes Des Moines and Ames, IA which makes a very ugly map. Long term, I want to move to different software that will allow the use of terrain datasets without such holes in them, but I'm not there yet.

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post #10984 of 11009 Old 09-06-2016, 05:51 PM
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reception behind a hill/mound

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cbb75302090a

I live in the north part of acton on the ground floor of an apartment building. I face the needham towers more or less but am in the shadow of a big mound/hill about 30' high with 3 or 4 individual 4-story buildings on top. my unit is 60 - 75' from that mound.

the antenna is one of those youtube 4-bay bowtie antennas and I was careful with dimensions/construction and whatnot and it made a big difference at my previous location but in the new place not so much.

my dvr+ tuners I think are part of the problem in that my samsung tv tuner is better able to lock weak signals and hold the picture whereas the dvr+ shows lots of pixelation/freezing and often just blackness.

but I watch almost no live tv, this setup is mostly only needed for recording patriots games and thankfully wbz is easily the best received in my situation other than the marlboro channels. there is still some pixelation on wbz at times but I can live with it if I have no options.

fox/wfxt and whdh are both spotty, sometimes the nbc channel works ok for stretches, other times it's splotchy. fox is the worst in my situation, often it's just black, once in awhile I get a picture but there's lots of pixelation/freezing.

I notice using the signal strength/quality bars in the dvr+ that no channel I tune has a strength higher than 40 (out of 100), most are lower, many are at/just above 0. when quality reading is 30 - 40+ I can get a decent/good picture. channels where strength is 30/40 but quality is 1 - 20 seem to be those where nothing comes in or is really poor/unwatchable. so basically I can have two channels with strength of 35 where the quality value seems to determine whether or not I'll see anything.

all that said would some kind of amplifier running into the dvr+ help? or this is one of those N-edge situations where I have no chance to get better reception for ch 7, 25, 38, 44 and 56? I've done lots of antenna pointing/tilting, etc., but that has almost no effect.

thanks.
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post #10985 of 11009 Old 09-07-2016, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ej_eddie View Post
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cbb75302090a

all that said would some kind of amplifier running into the dvr+ help? or this is one of those N-edge situations where I have no chance to get better reception for ch 7, 25, 38, 44 and 56? I've done lots of antenna pointing/tilting, etc., but that has almost no effect.

thanks.
An amplifier is worth a try. You might want to consult with the folks at You-Do-It Electronics. I live on the third floor of a condo southeast of the Blue Hill. I use an amplified Terk HD-TVA indoor antenna. I get channels from Boston, Providence, South Coast and Worcester. With the amp off I lose some channels such as 6 (New Bedford), 27(Worcester).
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post #10986 of 11009 Old 09-07-2016, 04:03 PM
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First, try running your TVFool.com report with gps coordinates. Are you sure two feet is correct for AGL? The DVR+ tuners are very good, but you are splitting the signal between two of them. If you are solid with the television, an amp may pull your DVR+ up enough to be as good. How many devices are you feeding with the antenna?

The DVR+ has two signal readings -- signal strength and signal quality. Strength is how much power is coming to the tuner and quality is how intelligible that signal is. Right now, I have 100% signal strength on a channel but only 28 signal quality. No amp will help that. If your signal quality is solid and approaches strength, then an amp could help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ej_eddie View Post
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cbb75302090a

I live in the north part of acton on the ground floor of an apartment building. I face the needham towers more or less but am in the shadow of a big mound/hill about 30' high with 3 or 4 individual 4-story buildings on top. my unit is 60 - 75' from that mound.

the antenna is one of those youtube 4-bay bowtie antennas and I was careful with dimensions/construction and whatnot and it made a big difference at my previous location but in the new place not so much.

my dvr+ tuners I think are part of the problem in that my samsung tv tuner is better able to lock weak signals and hold the picture whereas the dvr+ shows lots of pixelation/freezing and often just blackness.

but I watch almost no live tv, this setup is mostly only needed for recording patriots games and thankfully wbz is easily the best received in my situation other than the marlboro channels. there is still some pixelation on wbz at times but I can live with it if I have no options.

fox/wfxt and whdh are both spotty, sometimes the nbc channel works ok for stretches, other times it's splotchy. fox is the worst in my situation, often it's just black, once in awhile I get a picture but there's lots of pixelation/freezing.

I notice using the signal strength/quality bars in the dvr+ that no channel I tune has a strength higher than 40 (out of 100), most are lower, many are at/just above 0. when quality reading is 30 - 40+ I can get a decent/good picture. channels where strength is 30/40 but quality is 1 - 20 seem to be those where nothing comes in or is really poor/unwatchable. so basically I can have two channels with strength of 35 where the quality value seems to determine whether or not I'll see anything.

all that said would some kind of amplifier running into the dvr+ help? or this is one of those N-edge situations where I have no chance to get better reception for ch 7, 25, 38, 44 and 56? I've done lots of antenna pointing/tilting, etc., but that has almost no effect.

thanks.
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post #10987 of 11009 Old 09-11-2016, 11:25 AM
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thanks for the help. I retried tvfool using coordinates and it got worse but at least more accurate I imagine: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cb377d32ff10

in my case it seems the dvr+ tuner showing low strength is much less an issue than the quality component and because of that figure I'm SOL. I thought about adding a second antenna to point in a different direction and feeding both into the dvr+ but I read that can only be done with exactly the same kind of antennas and don't want to build a second one.

originally I had the 20' of coax from my last place so I cut that down to ~5' and that made a small improvement but only for channels I could already get something from. the antenna is sitting on the floor, I may try hanging it from the ceiling to see if anything changes but aren't hopeful.
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post #10988 of 11009 Old 09-11-2016, 10:45 PM
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It's probably not as hopeless as you fear. This is the worst time of year for antenna reception. Leaves are as big as they are going to get, they are full of water, and fall breezes keep them moving. And it's been raining, so they are probably wet. Also, your AGL is 2' -- is that correct? Can you go higher? How many TVs do you feed with the antenna? If your antenna is indoors, is it pointed in the right direction (~146 degrees)? What is between the antenna and the horizon? Walls? A refrigerator?

I don't think there is enough loss in 15' of coax to make a difference.

If you want to continue with this, the next step is to figure out what you want to try to pull in. Make a list of the stations you would like to receive. You can use the wikipedia listing for a station to find sub channels and titantv.com to see what is on those channels. 7, 25, 38, 44 and 56 are all UHF stations at 144-147 degrees. I would be curious to know the strength and quality readings for each of those stations.
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post #10989 of 11009 Old 09-12-2016, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ej_eddie View Post
the antenna is sitting on the floor, I may try hanging it from the ceiling to see if anything changes but aren't hopeful.
Sitting on the floor probably doesn't help, sometimes trying different spots helps. If your windows are new you might actually be hurting reception if you're using the antenna at the window, new windows UV specs have microscopic metallic flakes in the window that interferes with the TV signal.

Lastly, while you probably don't need it you could try a pre-amp, grap this at wallyworld, at least if you see no change you can return it.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Anten...ifier/14554631
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post #10990 of 11009 Old 09-12-2016, 05:19 AM
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Anyone considering Channel 46 as the new NBC affiliate?
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post #10991 of 11009 Old 09-12-2016, 08:23 AM
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Anyone considering Channel 46 as the new NBC affiliate?
Sure....might as well throw that into the mix as well.
Can't wait to see what NBCBoston has up its collective sleeves.
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post #10992 of 11009 Old 09-12-2016, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitchatjf View Post
Anyone considering Channel 46 as the new NBC affiliate?
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Sure....might as well throw that into the mix as well.
Can't wait to see what NBCBoston has up its collective sleeves.
I am hoping that whatever NBC has up its sleeves does not take away Telemundo from satellite. Having a local affiliate is the only way to get it in HD and when the occasional sporting event that is only on there, having WNEU is gold compared to the terrible east/west satellite feeds.
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post #10993 of 11009 Old 09-16-2016, 09:20 PM
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I am hoping that whatever NBC has up its sleeves does not take away Telemundo from satellite. Having a local affiliate is the only way to get it in HD and when the occasional sporting event that is only on there, having WNEU is gold compared to the terrible east/west satellite feeds.
We may have the answer, speaking of channel 46. A scan tonight near Newton / West Roxbury line shows WNEU 60-1, 60-2, 60-3 coming in at 100 %, and the RF channel is 46. (NH transmitter is on 34.) Looks like the long rumored DTV repeater is on the air. The PSIP info displays WNEU 60-1, etc.
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post #10994 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 09:38 AM
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We may have the answer, speaking of channel 46. A scan tonight near Newton / West Roxbury line shows WNEU 60-1, 60-2, 60-3 coming in at 100 %, and the RF channel is 46. (NH transmitter is on 34.) Looks like the long rumored DTV repeater is on the air. The PSIP info displays WNEU 60-1, etc.
That would be WTMU-LP, still owned by ZGS. When I type it in on RabbitEars, a "Facility Maintenance" page shows up.
http://www.rabbitears.info/facility_...=64996#station

And they would still need signals for the Worcester area, southern Plymouth County, Cape Cod and the Islands.

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post #10995 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 11:51 AM
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And they would still need signals for the Worcester area, southern Plymouth County, Cape Cod and the Islands.
says who?

I'm sure as long as Boston proper and the burbs are covered that would keep folks happy. There is no rule that says a station has to cover the whole DMA. Heck in Minneapolis KARE 11 (NBC) has minimal coverage in Northern MN (which is still the Mpls DMA despite being 200 miles away). The other Big 4 nets have coverage (mainly through translators)

Pretty sure most people on the cape have cable/satellite
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post #10996 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 11:51 AM
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That would be WTMU-LP, still owned by ZGS. When I type it in on RabbitEars, a "Facility Maintenance" page shows up.
http://www.rabbitears.info/facility_...=64996#station

And they would still need signals for the Worcester area, southern Plymouth County, Cape Cod and the Islands.
It still leaves room for speculation. Comcast / NBC U. might be satisfied filling in much of what would become totally dead NBC area. WJAR covers Worcester, Plymouth County, & the Cape fairly well. This might be just a backup plan if a planned purchase of another station fell through. Or they could be improving the coverage area to swap with another station. They could be buying it from ZGS. All guesses. Something is stirring in Philadelphia HQ maybe.... If nothing else, COZI is back for some of those folks that missed it.
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post #10997 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 11:53 AM
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It still leaves room for speculation. Comcast / NBC U. might be satisfied filling in much of what would become totally dead NBC area. WJAR covers Worcester, Plymouth County, & the Cape fairly well. This might be just a backup plan if a planned purchase of another station fell through. Or they could be improving the coverage area to swap with another station. They could be buying it from ZGS. All guesses. Something is stirring in Philadelphia HQ maybe.... If nothing else, COZI is back for some of those
olks that missed it.
Not on Boston Comcast...at least not yet. Only OTA.
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post #10998 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 12:32 PM
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Here are the options I see for NBC Boston.

13) With Heroes and Icons going to 38.2 this could be an option. It would have to be added to Comcast systems (Fios already has it on 22) It may be a low power but in actuality is 4 times stronger then 50
25) This would generally make it an affiliate switch 7 becomes Fox
44) I know this is PBS but for the right price WGBH may give it up They would have to squeeze all the subchannels on 2
46) This shopping channel was at one time an NBC OnO
60) This IS an NBC OnO Folks would say where to put Telemundo?
62) This is the option I see happening. Sonlife IMO is just a placeholder.
68) Folks would continue to get ION on 21 or 58

Concerns would include HD carriage and what terms of re transmission consent. If they use a current must carry system I would make carriage of subchannels as opposed to a fee.,perhaps asking satellite to carry NECN
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post #10999 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 12:43 PM
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Here are the options I see for NBC Boston.

13) With Heroes and Icons going to 38.2 this could be an option. It would have to be added to Comcast systems (Fios already has it on 22) It may be a low power but in actuality is 4 times stronger then 50
25) This would generally make it an affiliate switch 7 becomes Fox
44) I know this is PBS but for the right price WGBH may give it up They would have to squeeze all the subchannels on 2
46) This shopping channel was at one time an NBC OnO
60) This IS an NBC OnO Folks would say where to put Telemundo?
62) This is the option I see happening. Sonlife IMO is just a placeholder.
68) Folks would continue to get ION on 21 or 58

Concerns would include HD carriage and what terms of re transmission consent. If they use a current must carry system I would make carriage of subchannels as opposed to a fee.,perhaps asking satellite to carry NECN
44 - VT PBS carries VPBS HD on XX-1, WPBS+ HD on XX-2, Create on -3, and World on -4 so if your scenario played out, WGBH could certainly fit what they have now on 1 RF channel.
46 - WWDP good point about it once being NBC O&O. Big-4 on a LP get carried on satellite.
60 - WNEU is (and has been for years) Telemundo. They could put NBC on a -2 in NH and have NBC on -1 and Telemundo on -2 in Boston on....
62 - WMFP I agree with SBN beng a place-holder... NBC Boston!?!
68 - WBPX is the only transmitter with the "proper" ION alignment. I don't understand why 21 (which has ion-life on 21-1 and ION HD on 21-2) and 58 (which has qubo on 58-1 and ion HD on 58-2) aren't carried on satellite as they are full power channels in the market.

Last edited by ejb1980; 09-17-2016 at 12:54 PM.
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post #11000 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 03:47 PM
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68 - WBPX is the only transmitter with the "proper" ION alignment. I don't understand why 21 (which has ion-life on 21-1 and ION HD on 21-2) and 58 (which has qubo on 58-1 and ion HD on 58-2) aren't carried on satellite as they are full power channels in the market.
I have a feeling it has to do with the fact that 21 & 58 are straight satellite stations of 68 (regardless of how the PSIP is) therefore they don't qualify for must carry.

But for sake of argument (using other examples) satellite only needs to carry one affiliate. They can carry more than one but if they are LICENSED (key word there) to a different state they do get must carry (this is why both WCVB and WMUR get must carry....different states). This knocks 58 out as its licensed to Vineyard Haven, MA. The NH version would possibly get must carry....but we go back to the straight satellite rule which probably disqualifies them
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upon a little more looking into it....Looks like Ion has some national deal with Directv where the Ion national feed is mapped where the "local" Ion would be (channel wise). I know in Minneapolis Directv uses the national feed but maps it to 41 (where KPXM is)...only reason I know is that on the OTA version there is a ID at top of hour that says "Your local Ion is..KPXM 41 St Cloud/Minneapolis". DIrectv doesnt show that
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post #11002 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 05:09 PM
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There is no "must carry" on Big 4 network affiliates.
Because of its non commercial programming Ch 2 HAS to be must carry
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post #11003 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvcg66b3r View Post
That would be WTMU-LP, still owned by ZGS. When I type it in on RabbitEars, a "Facility Maintenance" page shows up.
http://www.rabbitears.info/facility_...=64996#station
It's now listed.

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44) I know this is PBS but for the right price WGBH may give it up They would have to squeeze all the subchannels on 2
It's a non-commercial allotment, and thus cannot be sold to a commercial broadcaster. Same problem WYDN would have.

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post #11004 of 11009 Old 09-17-2016, 07:33 PM
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I have a feeling it has to do with the fact that 21 & 58 are straight satellite stations of 68 (regardless of how the PSIP is) therefore they don't qualify for must carry.

But for sake of argument (using other examples) satellite only needs to carry one affiliate. They can carry more than one but if they are LICENSED (key word there) to a different state they do get must carry (this is why both WCVB and WMUR get must carry....different states). This knocks 58 out as its licensed to Vineyard Haven, MA. The NH version would possibly get must carry....but we go back to the straight satellite rule which probably disqualifies them
WMUR and WCVB are not straight satellites of each other. They have different weekday afternoon and late night schedules. WMUR also carries the Patriots preseason games where WCVB does not. WCVB shows more local news, too. They also have different "Chronicle" programs. They have the same syndicated shows, just not always at the same times. I like having both.

That must be why most of VT gets WPTZ and WNNE. They are both NBC affiliates (in this case, they have the same identical schedule/branding) but both are on satellite. Different states of license - WPTZ Plattsburgh, NY and WNNE Hartford, VT

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post #11005 of 11009 Old 09-18-2016, 08:09 AM
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WMUR and WCVB are not straight satellites of each other. They have different weekday afternoon and late night schedules. WMUR also carries the Patriots preseason games where WCVB does not. WCVB shows more local news, too. They also have different "Chronicle" programs. They have the same syndicated shows, just not always at the same times. I like having both.
I never said they were a satellite of each other. The rule is if there is more than one affiliate of a network in a DMA, satellite only has to carry one. If they are licensed to different states then both get must carry rights. Thats why both are carried. There are examples of both ways
-Both ABC affiliates in places like Lincoln/Grand Island Nebraska, Tampa Florida and Grand Rapids Michigan are carried. In all 3 cases the stations have 2 different owners
-In Lexington, KY there is WKYT and in Hazard its WYMT. Both are CBS affiliates and are in same market. Satellite only carries WKYT
-WDAY Fargo and WDAZ Grand Forks, ND (same DMA) are carried on Dish but no longer on Directv (only WDAY is)

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That must be why most of VT gets WPTZ and WNNE. They are both NBC affiliates (in this case, they have the same identical schedule/branding) but both are on satellite. Different states of license - WPTZ Plattsburgh, NY and WNNE Hartford, VT
correct. I had the same thing in Duluth, MN years ago. Dish carried both KBJR (Duluth) and satellite (sans commercials and a 5 minute newscast) KRII Chisholm, MN. ONly reason both got must carry? KBJR was LICENSED to Superior, WI (across the river) even though the studio and transmitter was in Duluth.
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post #11006 of 11009 Old 09-18-2016, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by chitchatjf View Post
There is no "must carry" on Big 4 network affiliates.
sure they can. They either get must carry or can ask for compensation (and give that up)


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Because of its non commercial programming Ch 2 HAS to be must carry
PBS has different rules

http://dishuser.org/mustcarry.php
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post #11007 of 11009 Old 09-19-2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
I never said they were a satellite of each other. The rule is if there is more than one affiliate of a network in a DMA, satellite only has to carry one. If they are licensed to different states then both get must carry rights. Thats why both are carried. There are examples of both ways
-Both ABC affiliates in places like Lincoln/Grand Island Nebraska, Tampa Florida and Grand Rapids Michigan are carried. In all 3 cases the stations have 2 different owners
-In Lexington, KY there is WKYT and in Hazard its WYMT. Both are CBS affiliates and are in same market. Satellite only carries WKYT
-WDAY Fargo and WDAZ Grand Forks, ND (same DMA) are carried on Dish but no longer on Directv (only WDAY is)


correct. I had the same thing in Duluth, MN years ago. Dish carried both KBJR (Duluth) and satellite (sans commercials and a 5 minute newscast) KRII Chisholm, MN. ONly reason both got must carry? KBJR was LICENSED to Superior, WI (across the river) even though the studio and transmitter was in Duluth.
Sorry - you were talking about the ion stations being straight satellites of each other.
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post #11008 of 11009 Old 09-19-2016, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
We may have the answer, speaking of channel 46. A scan tonight near Newton / West Roxbury line shows WNEU 60-1, 60-2, 60-3 coming in at 100 %, and the RF channel is 46. (NH transmitter is on 34.) Looks like the long rumored DTV repeater is on the air. The PSIP info displays WNEU 60-1, etc.
http://www.fybush.com/nerw-20160919/

Interesting read that discusses what you found OTA.
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post #11009 of 11009 Old 09-19-2016, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
Sorry - you were talking about the ion stations being straight satellites of each other.
Its OK. I actually gave both examples (satellite stations and multiple affiliates in a market)
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