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post #11011 of 11022 Old Yesterday, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwilliams623 View Post
Someone suggested I post my problem here to see if anyone else is having this issue. I am right off Union Sq. in Somerville.


Here is the summery:




  • In WMC 38.1 came in just fine 2 months ago with W7. Then after trying out W10, I came back down to W7 and now I get "Service is unavailable" bla bla bla for 38.1
  • I am using a Hauppauge 950Q on a W7 64 bit
  • WMC correctly shows channel 38.1 in the listing, it scans signal strength at a full 6 bars, Win TV plays the channel just fine (as it did 2 months ago in WMC) but I can't get it to display now when I came back to W7 from W10 in WMC. HOW COULD THAT BE POSSIBLE????
  • I have manually reinstalled WMC, tried different zip codes, tried to manually add channels like 38.2, 39.1, etc. with no luck. WMC forces the .1 as in 39.1.
  • Under settings/tv/guide/edit channels/click on 38.1, click edit sources the channel that WMC configures shows 39.1 and 100% quality at the bottom of the screen.


I know it is not the antenna or the signal. The techs at the station and Hauppauge don't have an answer.


Any ideas?
They have added the Heroes and Icons channel as 38.2. Both 38.1 and 38.2 are working OK for me on a Samsung and a Sony TV, as well as a Zenith DTV box. It's possible they were configuring the PSIP data when you were experiencing problems.
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post #11012 of 11022 Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
They have added the Heroes and Icons channel as 38.2. Both 38.1 and 38.2 are working OK for me on a Samsung and a Sony TV, as well as a Zenith DTV box. It's possible they were configuring the PSIP data when you were experiencing problems.
I talked to them about that but it was well after I had WMC configured. On top of that, I just reconfigured the TV Signal and still have the problem. Another strange thing is that I didn't pick up 38.2 but maybe the listing hasn't been updated for downloading.

Thanks, JJ
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post #11013 of 11022 Old Today, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwilliams623 View Post
I talked to them about that but it was well after I had WMC configured. On top of that, I just reconfigured the TV Signal and still have the problem. Another strange thing is that I didn't pick up 38.2 but maybe the listing hasn't been updated for downloading.
Sounds like something changed in the signal when WSBK added 38-2 that WMC isn't able to handle. I've heard of this sort of thing happening before. Sending/posting an analysis of the signal should help me diagnose what it is. Quit WMC, install TSReader Lite:

http://tsreader.com/tsreader/TSReaderLite2.8.47c.exe

When you run it, choose the ATSCBDASource driver, enter channel 39. Assuming it works, (you may need to quit, hold Ctrl while launching again and choose HCWATSCSource instead) give it 10-15 seconds, then go to the Export menu, click HTML Export, check all of the boxes except for Thumbnails and EIT, and save the file. Then either post it here as an attachment or e-mail it to me. (webmaster at rabbitears dot info)

I'll be able to compare it with older data I have from WSBK and see what's different.

- Trip

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post #11014 of 11022 Old Today, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Sounds like something changed in the signal when WSBK added 38-2 that WMC isn't able to handle. I've heard of this sort of thing happening before. Sending/posting an analysis of the signal should help me diagnose what it is. Quit WMC, install TSReader Lite:

http://tsreader.com/tsreader/TSReaderLite2.8.47c.exe

When you run it, choose the ATSCBDASource driver, enter channel 39. Assuming it works, (you may need to quit, hold Ctrl while launching again and choose HCWATSCSource instead) give it 10-15 seconds, then go to the Export menu, click HTML Export, check all of the boxes except for Thumbnails and EIT, and save the file. Then either post it here as an attachment or e-mail it to me. (webmaster at rabbitears dot info)

I'll be able to compare it with older data I have from WSBK and see what's different.

- Trip
Thanks Trip! The ATSCBDASource seemed to do nothing so I ran the HCWATSCSource instead. Not sure I performed it correctly..I entered channel 39 but let it scan channels 2 - 69. Maybe I should have limited the scan to channel 39?


Anyway, here are the results. I could not post the html so I put it in a Text file..
Attached Files
File Type: txt SI Parsing by TSReader 2_8_47c.txt (4.8 KB, 7 views)

Thanks, JJ
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post #11015 of 11022 Old Today, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwilliams623 View Post
Thanks Trip! The ATSCBDASource seemed to do nothing so I ran the HCWATSCSource instead. Not sure I performed it correctly..I entered channel 39 but let it scan channels 2 - 69. Maybe I should have limited the scan to channel 39?


Anyway, here are the results. I could not post the html so I put it in a Text file..
It was hard to read but fortunately very easy to spot the problem. Talk to the station, and tell them their TSID is wrong. It's supposed to be 1367 (0x557) but instead they set it to 1357 (0x54D). WMC is expecting it to be 1367 which is why you can't see it.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

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post #11016 of 11022 Old Today, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
It was hard to read but fortunately very easy to spot the problem. Talk to the station, and tell them their TSID is wrong. It's supposed to be 1367 (0x557) but instead they set it to 1357 (0x54D). WMC is expecting it to be 1367 which is why you can't see it.

- Trip

WOW!! That is incredible Trip!! I have tried various forums with all sorts of techs chiming in and you are the only one that came up with that tool and spotted the problem!!


Why would Win TV be able to play that channel and why would WMC show a 6 bar strength but not show It?


If it helps, here is a 2nd run where I confined the scan to just 39. I also provided a jpeg of the last screen as I didn't' think it would show well in the text file.


THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This has been an ongoing problem for 2 weeks now!
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	Screen shot of last page - 2nd try of SI Parsing by TSReader 2_8_47c.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	282.9 KB
ID:	1694809  
Attached Files
File Type: txt 2nd try of SI Parsing by TSReader 2_8_47c.txt (4.8 KB, 4 views)

Thanks, JJ
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post #11017 of 11022 Old Today, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Sounds like something changed in the signal when WSBK added 38-2 that WMC isn't able to handle. I've heard of this sort of thing happening before. Sending/posting an analysis of the signal should help me diagnose what it is. Quit WMC, install TSReader Lite:

http://tsreader.com/tsreader/TSReaderLite2.8.47c.exe

When you run it, choose the ATSCBDASource driver, enter channel 39. Assuming it works, (you may need to quit, hold Ctrl while launching again and choose HCWATSCSource instead) give it 10-15 seconds, then go to the Export menu, click HTML Export, check all of the boxes except for Thumbnails and EIT, and save the file. Then either post it here as an attachment or e-mail it to me. (webmaster at rabbitears dot info)

I'll be able to compare it with older data I have from WSBK and see what's different.

- Trip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
It was hard to read but fortunately very easy to spot the problem. Talk to the station, and tell them their TSID is wrong. It's supposed to be 1367 (0x557) but instead they set it to 1357 (0x54D). WMC is expecting it to be 1367 which is why you can't see it.

- Trip
Trip, am I reading this wrong? In the file I see: TSID: 1367 (0x0557) NTSC: 38 ATSC: 39 MA BOSTON

Thanks, JJ
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post #11018 of 11022 Old Today, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwilliams623 View Post
WOW!! That is incredible Trip!! I have tried various forums with all sorts of techs chiming in and you are the only one that came up with that tool and spotted the problem!!


Why would Win TV be able to play that channel and why would WMC show a 6 bar strength but not show It?


If it helps, here is a 2nd run where I confined the scan to just 39. I also provided a jpeg of the last screen as I didn't' think it would show well in the text file.


THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This has been an ongoing problem for 2 weeks now!
Most tools, like the WinTV software just pass along whatever the stations send out. WMC, however, only shows channels which exist in its guide. It matches up the guide data to the signal it's receiving by matching the TSID. If the TSID doesn't match, it assumes it's seeing the wrong signal and doesn't show anything.

Don't worry about sending the file again; we've spotted the problem, that's all that matters here really. I post HTML captures from TSReader on RabbitEars so people can see what stations are doing from a technical data point of view. That's what made this so easy; my HTML output from 2013 had the 1367 TSID while yours had 1357. At that point, I checked against what the FCC database said the TSID is supposed to be and confirmed which one was right. (If you want to provide TSReader data for all the stations to help me keep my collection updated, I am certainly not opposed! But I need it in HTML form, which you would have to send via e-mail.)

It's one of those things that if you've seen it before, like I have, it's plain as day obvious. If you haven't, it's very easy to miss. I live in the DC area and can see the Baltimore stations. I have had to talk to three different stations in this area since I moved here in 2013 about the TSID value being wrong.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #11019 of 11022 Old Today, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwilliams623 View Post
Trip, am I reading this wrong? In the file I see: TSID: 1367 (0x0557) NTSC: 38 ATSC: 39 MA BOSTON
The TSID appears in two places, once in the TVCT, which is where you're looking, and again in the PMT (look at the very top of the file). You'll see it's wrong in the PMT.

Actually, I hadn't caught that--good eye. That actually means there are a number of TV sets, not just WMC, that will also fail to receive WSBK right now. If those TSID values disagree, it causes all kinds of headaches for certain receivers.

EDIT: You'll need to specify that it's the TSID in the Program Map Table that's wrong. They may not know how to set that and may have to talk to the vendor of their equipment, though it somehow got set wrong in the first place having been correct before. If they give you trouble, get an e-mail address and I can write something up to send them.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

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Last edited by Trip in VA; Today at 12:19 PM.
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post #11020 of 11022 Old Today, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Most tools, like the WinTV software just pass along whatever the stations send out. WMC, however, only shows channels which exist in its guide. It matches up the guide data to the signal it's receiving by matching the TSID. If the TSID doesn't match, it assumes it's seeing the wrong signal and doesn't show anything.

Don't worry about sending the file again; we've spotted the problem, that's all that matters here really. I post HTML captures from TSReader on RabbitEars so people can see what stations are doing from a technical data point of view. That's what made this so easy; my HTML output from 2013 had the 1367 TSID while yours had 1357. At that point, I checked against what the FCC database said the TSID is supposed to be and confirmed which one was right. (If you want to provide TSReader data for all the stations to help me keep my collection updated, I am certainly not opposed! But I need it in HTML form, which you would have to send via e-mail.)

It's one of those things that if you've seen it before, like I have, it's plain as day obvious. If you haven't, it's very easy to miss. I live in the DC area and can see the Baltimore stations. I have had to talk to three different stations in this area since I moved here in 2013 about the TSID value being wrong.

- Trip
Sounds good Trip, thanks again!


I would be more than happy to send you that data. What do I specify in the various screens to get you all the channels?

Thanks, JJ
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post #11021 of 11022 Old Today, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwilliams623 View Post
Sounds good Trip, thanks again!


I would be more than happy to send you that data. What do I specify in the various screens to get you all the channels?
One of the downsides of TSReader Lite is that you have to do it one station at a time. So you'd enter 39 for example, let it load up, run for 10-15 seconds, make sure there aren't too many TEI Errors, then do the export, quit the software, restart from the beginning with a different channel.

And, of course, when they fix WSBK, I'd love an update to show the correction.

- Trip

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post #11022 of 11022 Old Today, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
One of the downsides of TSReader Lite is that you have to do it one station at a time. So you'd enter 39 for example, let it load up, run for 10-15 seconds, make sure there aren't too many TEI Errors, then do the export, quit the software, restart from the beginning with a different channel.

And, of course, when they fix WSBK, I'd love an update to show the correction.

- Trip
I will talk to them bright and early Monday morning and follow up with an export and update to you!


Thanks again and enjoy the rest of your weekend!

Thanks, JJ
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