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post #11191 of 11212 Old 11-28-2016, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bb56 View Post
Before October 23 when the storm damaged the antenna in Needham, I was getting 2.1-WGBH, 4.1-WBZ, 5.1- WCVB (and all their sub channels.) Plus the RI stations.
2.1 was up and running after the storm first but had to shutdown when the new parts were being replaced about 2 weeks ago. About a week ago or so, 5.1 came back on the air, but I no longer get 4.1. Zero signal strength. When I re-scanned, my TV dropped it from the line-up.
The weird thing is that 2.1 is 700KW, 4.1 is 825KW and 5.1 is 625KW and the frequencies are 503, 509 and 515 MHz respectively. I can't imagine why I don't get 4.1 any longer since the repairs nor what to do about it. I've relocated and reoriented the antenna (attic mount) to no avail.

Any ideas anyone?
Actually WGBH is on ch. 19 (centered on 503 MHz), WCVB is on ch. 20 (509 MHz), WBZ is on 30 (569 MHz), and WGBX is on ch 43 (647 MHz). However it's not that big a frequency jump from 509 to 569 MHz. Do you get WGBX?

The last posted info was that WGBH was feeding the damaged upper section of the antenna, and the other 3 were feeding the undamaged lower section - which is the the reverse of the normal config. All using full power. However it's possible that has changed.
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post #11192 of 11212 Old 11-29-2016, 07:29 AM
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I contacted WBZ this morning and was told that they are around 95% and WSBK is at 100%...don't know if that's on the secondary antenna or primary...I assume secondary based on WGBH's last post. I was able to watch the Pats game although had occasional pixelation, but it was windy Sunday and I do receive through a few broad leaf trees that are still hanging on to some of their leaves.
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post #11193 of 11212 Old 11-29-2016, 04:28 PM
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I've been getting 2.1 WGBH for most of the past month until they turned it off during the repair 2 weeks ago. 5.1 WCVB came back a few days later, but WBZ has not been seen here since the storm damage. I get 44.x with dropouts on RF 43.

I don't think 95% power on 4.1 WBZ would be a problem if it's on the same antenna as 5.1 WCVB since that would still be more power than WCVB. But still no signal for 4.1 RF 30.
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post #11194 of 11212 Old 11-29-2016, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
Actually WGBH is on ch. 19 (centered on 503 MHz), WCVB is on ch. 20 (509 MHz), WBZ is on 30 (569 MHz), and WGBX is on ch 43 (647 MHz). However it's not that big a frequency jump from 509 to 569 MHz. Do you get WGBX?

The last posted info was that WGBH was feeding the damaged upper section of the antenna, and the other 3 were feeding the undamaged lower section - which is the the reverse of the normal config. All using full power. However it's possible that has changed.
Yes thanks. Those are the RF channels but my TV uses the digital channels like 4.1, 5.1, etc. I can't tune in by RF channels.
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post #11195 of 11212 Old 11-29-2016, 04:38 PM
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From WGBH today

Quote:
Tuesday, November 29, 2016, 10:45am
Repair work continues today with engineers and the tower crew back on site in Needham this morning.

In the current configuration, WGBH is on the upper main antenna at full power using an auxiliary transmission line, while WGBX and the network stations are on the lower main antenna at slightly reduced power. The plan moving forward is to rebuild the transmission line to the upper antenna with the parts that were fabricated in Maine over the past week.

Today the crew will start prep work on the ground and getting ready for the hoist needed to move equipment and parts up the tower.
Rebuilding the transmission line is expected to take about two weeks. Weather and other factors may change that timeline. Once the work is completed, the stations will be moved to the repaired line and power applied to test it. If the tests are successful, the stations can go back to normal operation.

Once all of the stations are back on the main transmission lines and in their proper locations on the upper and lower antenna, the auxiliary transmission line will be rebuilt. Some overnight shutdowns may be required during certain phases of the work. We will post outage information when it is known.
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post #11196 of 11212 Old 11-29-2016, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb56 View Post
Yes thanks. Those are the RF channels but my TV uses the digital channels like 4.1, 5.1, etc. I can't tune in by RF channels.
What model of TV? You're close enough that you should be receiving 4.1 even at 95% reduced power and if you're receiving 38.1 and 5.1. Is this just on one TV or do you have more then 1 with it happening?
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post #11197 of 11212 Old 11-30-2016, 03:44 PM
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Antenna Recommendation

I'm hoping someone might be able to recommend an antenna to be installed in the attic for my location 20 miles from the Boston towers. Here's the report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfafee7531dd86

I'm mainly interested in the Boston stations around 177-180º but if I could easily get the closer LOS channels too that would be a bonus. Thanks!
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post #11198 of 11212 Old 11-30-2016, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Transmission power and the distance the signal can be received kind of go hand in hand (I realize other factors, such as height, obstructions, and so on also come into play)... But yes, WBTS obviously is transmitting with FAR less power, which means the coverage area is probably going to be ridiculously small. I'll post my TVFool report if their site comes back up. But it isn't a huge problem for me since I should be able to get the channel via FIOS, I just prefer to use my more limited (in number) CableCard tuners for content I can't get OTA.

I've got 9 CableCard tuners (3 x SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime) and 16 HD OTA tuners (5 x SiliconDust HDHomeRun + 3 x PCIx dual OTA tuners) that are collectively shared with several PC's / DVR software solutions (WMC, JRiver Media Center, and BeyondTV). BeyondTV is just being used as a backup for OTA recording in case WMC or JRiver fails to record something, but I haven't actually had to fall back to that in quite a long time, so I can probably retire it at this point. If JRiver had support for Copy Once content, I could drop WMC at this point too...
So here's my TVFool report which seems to indicate I should be able to get WBTS with an antenna in the attic.
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post #11199 of 11212 Old 12-01-2016, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
So here's my TVFool report which seems to indicate I should be able to get WBTS with an antenna in the attic.
You would on the roof, you should in the attic, but attic installs can be tricky due to a number other factors. I have a small attic so I had to contend with roofing nails, flashing, and metal gutters that caused multi-path reflections, once I went to the peak of my roof it was night and day...just couldn't get the attic install to work for me and I'm an RF Engineer .
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post #11200 of 11212 Old 12-01-2016, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david.p View Post
I'm hoping someone might be able to recommend an antenna to be installed in the attic for my location 20 miles from the Boston towers. Here's the report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfafee7531dd86

I'm mainly interested in the Boston stations around 177-180º but if I could easily get the closer LOS channels too that would be a bonus. Thanks!
I'm a fan of Antennas Direct because of their profile/siize...maybe not the highest in terms of signal gain, but good design and work well in most situations. I use the Clearstream-4 60+ miles out and have great results pulling in Boston stations (I do pre-amp at the antenna).

In your case go to BestBuy (or Walmart) and grab Clear Stream 2v...at least then if you have trouble with it you can return back to best buy. The VHF element will also allow you to pick up WMUR CH9 from the back side along with the Boston stations. But as I mention in the prior post attic installs can be tricky.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/antennas...?skuId=6847298
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post #11201 of 11212 Old 12-01-2016, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bac522 View Post
What model of TV? You're close enough that you should be receiving 4.1 even at 95% reduced power and if you're receiving 38.1 and 5.1. Is this just on one TV or do you have more then 1 with it happening?
Main TV is a Vizio E480 smart TV. Others include Dynex, Sony, magnavox, and another small inexpensive one. Today, I have an intermittent channel 4.1 back. Not sure what changed but I can go re-align the antenna again to hopefully bring it in better.
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post #11202 of 11212 Old 12-01-2016, 11:07 AM
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Directv added WBTS-LD today on channel 10. Hopefully that will help some who are out of range.
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post #11203 of 11212 Old 12-01-2016, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
Directv added WBTS-LD today on channel 10. Hopefully that will help some who are out of range.
Comcast did the same - moving NECN from 810 to 840 and also added OTA ch 8_3 (Cozi) on 935.
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post #11204 of 11212 Old 12-04-2016, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb56 View Post
Main TV is a Vizio E480 smart TV. Others include Dynex, Sony, magnavox, and another small inexpensive one. Today, I have an intermittent channel 4.1 back. Not sure what changed but I can go re-align the antenna again to hopefully bring it in better.
Got me baffled on this one, an antenna alignment would affect the other channels too off of that tower location which is majority of Boston stations like 5, 2, and 7. And the beamwidth of an antenna is pretty wide so it'd would have to be out of alignment quite a bit.

Usually when troubleshooting signals, always best to temporarily eliminate other variables and do a direct run to a single TV to confirm signal levels. If you're using splitters then you 1/2 the power through each spit which might be enough to affect the signal level from the Antenna to the the TV's receiver.
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post #11205 of 11212 Old Yesterday, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bac522 View Post
In your case go to BestBuy (or Walmart) and grab Clear Stream 2v...
Thanks again for the recommendation for the ClearStream 2v, it seems to be a good fit for my situation.

After mounting the antenna in the garage attic at the highest point that will allow it to be aimed and pointing it ~178º, a channel scan picked up 29 channels from 12 stations. The current big Boston networks (WGBH/X, WBZ, WCVB, WHDH, WFXT) all come in fine.

As you suggested, the VHF dipole picks up WMUR from the back side. I was surprised to see it is one of the strongest signals received.

Picking up WUTF and WUNI out of Marlborough and Worcester was also a pleasant surprise. I guess the wider beam angle of the ClearStream helps here.

A few interesting notes:

- WYCN is picked up from the North but not WBIN. Seems odd since they have the same distance and heading and both appear to be UHF, though looking at transmitter power on Wikipedia WYCN is about double so that may explain it.

- WFXT-DT comes in but WLVI was not picked up. Again these two are the same distance and heading but TVFool lists WLVI at a higher NM so I would've expected the reverse. Transmitter power again?

- WSBK is the weakest signal that the tuner picked up, which matches the TVFool report. Signal strength ranges from 27 - 19 at different times which is enough to go from perfectly watchable to completely broken up.

Given the cable from from the antenna to the TV is 125' (new RG6 quad shielded cable) I'm wondering if adding a pre-amp at the antenna might make a difference with any of the above (even the strongest signals are under 70 on the TV meter).

Unfortunately it looks to me that unless I add a second UHF antenna pointing north to get WNEU or WBTS significantly increases output I'll be without NBC come the New Year.

Last edited by david.p; Yesterday at 09:52 AM.
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post #11206 of 11212 Old Yesterday, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by david.p View Post
- WYCN is picked up from the North but not WBIN. Seems odd since they have the same distance and heading and both appear to be UHF, though looking at transmitter power on Wikipedia WYCN is about double so that may explain it.
Yup, pretty much power related.

Quote:
- WFXT-DT comes in but WLVI was not picked up. Again these two are the same distance and heading but TVFool lists WLVI at a higher NM so I would've expected the reverse. Transmitter power again?
WFXT is stronger for me then WLVI, TVFool may not have accurate data, although I'm a but surprised you can't get it. When initially setting up an antenna, always good to just by-pass splitters and run to one TV to see what you get, then if anything changes when you hook up other TV's you know its a signal loss problem somewhere. 2-way spliters 1/2 power and long cable runs knock down the strength too.

You could consider a pre-amp at the base of your antenna, you're far enough away that it shouldn't overload the TV's tuners. I like PCT Amps with a DC power inserter.
https://www.amazon.com/PCT-BI-DIRECT...=pct+amplifier
https://www.amazon.com/PCT-Inserter-...8MCXCNF5R38Z1Z


Quote:
- WSBK is the weakest signal that the tuner picked up, which matches the TVFool report. Signal strength ranges from 27 - 19 at different times which is enough to go from perfectly watchable to completely broken up.
They are not transmitting full power maybe around 90% from what I see in my signal now to what it was before the whole antenna mess started late October...and is still going on.


Quote:
Given the cable from from the antenna to the TV is 125' (new RG6 quad shielded cable) I'm wondering if adding a pre-amp at the antenna might make a difference with any of the above (even the strongest signals are under 70 on the TV meter).
Yes I recommend that, gave a suggest above.

Quote:
Unfortunately it looks to me that unless I add a second UHF antenna pointing north to get WNEU or WBTS significantly increases output I'll be without NBC come the New Year.
I filed a complaint with the FCC about this, I do get NBC from Portland, but it's not always reliable. It's my understanding the the FCC had a condition that Comcast could buy NBC as long as they didn't interfere with any OTA signals...this whole mess is in clear violation of that as far as I'm concerned. I did't get back some stupid form email that cable companies are not required to carry all OTA signals...I sent back a few choice words to the FCC to wake up and re-read my original complaint!

Might not be a bad idea for everyone here to complain to the FCC about this NBC mess!
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post #11207 of 11212 Old Yesterday, 06:39 PM
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Thanks for the pre-amp suggestions. Signal levels are a bit higher tonight (clear rather than last night's clouds) and WSBK is coming in solid. A re-scan also picked up WPBX 32 (68.1 - 68.4) but signal levels are low and it's breaking up so that's another borderline station that the pre-amp may help.

Since it looks like a pre-amp will be worthwhile, one that would allow the addition of a North facing UHF antenna is appealing. I came across this one from Televes that combines multiple antenna and has adjustable gains - http://forums.solidsignal.com/showth...ted-Amplifiers
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post #11208 of 11212 Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM
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As for ION in Boston/Worcester...they have satellite station WPXG-TV channel 21 in Concord, NH, too.

On a different point about NBC in greater Boston: hotel cable systems. Will they carry this new channel or, be lazy, and continue to carry WHDH-TV channel 7? One area I visit a couple times a year is Brattleboro, VT. Due to viewing habits (and possibly terrain), Brattleboro's county, Windham, gets lumped in with Boston/Worcester. Any hotel/motel I've stayed at there usually carry at least channels 4, 5, 7 and 25...even channel 38 on a rare occasion. I wonder if they'd consider WNNE-TV (NBC) channel 31 from White River Junction, VT? I think Comcast in Brattleboro carries it, but I'm not 100% sure.
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post #11209 of 11212 Old Yesterday, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david.p View Post
I'm hoping someone might be able to recommend an antenna to be installed in the attic for my location 20 miles from the Boston towers. Here's the report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfafee7531dd86

I'm mainly interested in the Boston stations around 177-180º but if I could easily get the closer LOS channels too that would be a bonus. Thanks!
I think you have a very promising TVFool.com report. Have you googled the call signs to see which channels you would like to have? That's the best first step.

Taking a quick look, to the north, you have...
uhf
WBIN @344 Antenna TV, Grit
WNEU @335 Cozi; WNEU is rumored to be an NBC affiliate come the first of the year

vhf high
WMUR ABC, MeTV
WENH PBS, Explore, World, Create

Looking south...
uhf
WUTF @210 Unimas, Bounce, GetTV, Escape
WGBH @165 PBS, World
WCVB @165 ABC, MeTV
WBZ @165 CBS, Decades
WFMP @163 The Works, Comet TV
WHDH @162 NBC, This TV
WGBX @165 PBS, Create, Kids
WLVI @163 CW, BUZZR
WFXT @163 Fox, Escape, Laff
WSBK @165 MyNetwork, Heroes and Icons
WBPX @163 ION, Qubo, ION Life, Shop, QVC, HSN
WYDN @165 Daystar
WJAR @177 NBC, MeTV, Comet

vhf high
WNAC @177 Fox, MyNetwork, Laff
WPRI @177 CBS, Bounce, GetTV

I would consider pointing a DB8 pointed towards 165. I suspect you will be able to pull in WBIN and WNEU from the back. (If not, you can remove the reflector.) You might even get WNAC and WPRI (I used to get vhf 11 on a DB8). If you are interested in WMUR/WENH, add a Stellar Labs 30-2476 vhf antenna to the mast.


This is a gain chart for the DB8 with reflectors.

Usual caveats apply for an attic install.

Last edited by wizwor; Yesterday at 11:11 PM.
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post #11210 of 11212 Old Yesterday, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac522 View Post
Yup, pretty much power related.

*****

I filed a complaint with the FCC about this, I do get NBC from Portland, but it's not always reliable. It's my understanding the the FCC had a condition that Comcast could buy NBC as long as they didn't interfere with any OTA signals...this whole mess is in clear violation of that as far as I'm concerned. I did't get back some stupid form email that cable companies are not required to carry all OTA signals...I sent back a few choice words to the FCC to wake up and re-read my original complaint!

Might not be a bad idea for everyone here to complain to the FCC about this NBC mess!
The FCC can't just order Comcast / NBC to give the NBC affiliation back to WHDH. They could technically grant WBTS an exception to boost power, but even if they did, which seems highly unlikely, unless NBC overbuilt with a transmitter, feedline, and antenna that could all operate at higher power, it would take months to change it.

There may well be other local stations they could purchase in the future, since the spectrum auction is not going well and fewer stations may leave the air than expected. WBTS could eventually end up on the transmitter of another station.

Short term a temporary solution might be to LMA a subchannel on another station in the market, such as WMFP or WWDP, with the FCC speeding up the paperwork.

This is just more speculation, of course - more likely nothing will happen.
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post #11211 of 11212 Old Today, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
The FCC can't just order Comcast / NBC to give the NBC affiliation back to WHDH. They could technically grant WBTS an exception to boost power, but even if they did, which seems highly unlikely, unless NBC overbuilt with a transmitter, feedline, and antenna that could all operate at higher power, it would take months to change it.
That I realize, it's the fact that they are now transmitting with much lower power basically SoL'ing quite a few OTA users now. To me that says Comcast is interfering with the OTA signals that they promised not to do when purchasing NBC.
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post #11212 of 11212 Old Today, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david.p View Post
Thanks for the pre-amp suggestions. Signal levels are a bit higher tonight (clear rather than last night's clouds) and WSBK is coming in solid. A re-scan also picked up WPBX 32 (68.1 - 68.4) but signal levels are low and it's breaking up so that's another borderline station that the pre-amp may help.

Since it looks like a pre-amp will be worthwhile, one that would allow the addition of a North facing UHF antenna is appealing. I came across this one from Televes that combines multiple antenna and has adjustable gains - http://forums.solidsignal.com/showth...ted-Amplifiers
Seems like a nice amp, not familiar with it, but if you're thinking about combining two antennas, this might make life a bit easier. Combining two antennas needs to be done right or you can interfere with signals on the first antenna actually making things worst. Basically you need to have the exact same length of coax from each antenna to the combiner.

I forgot about the DB8e that wizwor suggest in another post, it would be overkill if you were pointing in just one direction, but what is nice about the DB8E is that you can turn the pair antennas to various positions, basically 2 could be face south and 2 could be facing north.
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