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post #11401 of 11425 Old 02-19-2017, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by KEVINL71 View Post
Starting to sound like channel 56 of Cambridge will become a subchannel of WHDH-TV (IND) channel 7. I wonder if they'll ever do that here in Hartford/New Haven? We have WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8 of New Haven. Their sister station is WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven. The stations use channel 10 and 39, respectively, for their digital. They both transmit from Madmere Mountain in Hamden, CT.
If I was you I would hope they don't...subchannels are starting to become the compression nightmare that cable viewers have to endure! WPXG-TV in Concord has 6 channels on their band and you can see the HD channel suffering from it!
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post #11402 of 11425 Old 02-19-2017, 06:41 AM
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I struggle to receive channel 8 of New Haven over the air, as they are the only commercial VHF broadcaster left in Hartford/New Haven. That's even when I used an older indoor TV antenna with the two telescoping rods. Sister station channel 59 barely ever comes in either.

WHPX-TV (ION) channel 26 of New London is like most other ION stations: 1 to 6 with QVC and HSN on channel 26-5 and 26-6.
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post #11403 of 11425 Old 02-19-2017, 06:45 AM
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Yeah, I like the shows ION broadcast, but I can definitely see compression on their HD channels...I removed the stupid HSN and QVC channels from my TV's, but also realize it pays their bills I'm sure! Just amazing that in this day and age of Amazon that shopping TV is still around!
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post #11404 of 11425 Old 02-19-2017, 02:22 PM
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And the audio issue on WFXT Fox 25 is back again. Call the engineering guy again.
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post #11405 of 11425 Old 02-20-2017, 01:49 AM
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WLVI won't technically be a sub channel of WHDH, at least not when it comes to channel number. It will use some of the WHDH spectrum, but will still map to 56-1.
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post #11406 of 11425 Old 02-21-2017, 04:00 AM
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RIP to BIN

WBIN is toast: http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/...vMP/story.html (it's behind Globe paywall ). The article says that Binney (owner of WBIN) is selling the station to the FCC so that its spectrum can be used for broadband. Unlike Ansin's sale of Ch 56, the programming is not going to continue anywhere else. The whole news staff was apparently abruptly fired on Friday.

I'm disappointed because I installed 2 antennas facing in opposite directions, one pointed at WBIN, just to get that station.

Also, TVFool and the other "locate your stations" sites cannot keep up with all of the changes. I believe I used the FCC's official database and found errors there too (where is channel 13, for example?). And TitanTV is missing information and cannot keep up with the changes either.

Looks like there's not going to be any OTA soon due to broadband. We'll all be forced to use streaming services exclusively, I think.
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post #11407 of 11425 Old 02-21-2017, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post
Looks like there's not going to be any OTA soon due to broadband. We'll all be forced to use streaming services exclusively, I think.
There is a resurgence in OTA because of Cable/Satellite companies continual price rising so it might slow the demise of OTA for awhile, but the younger generation is growing up online and traditional broadcast TV and AM/FM radio doesn't appeal to that generation. In 15 to 30 years I see a vastly different picture for OTA, it's too bad, because it's nice to not always have to rely on the internet for my video or music.
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post #11408 of 11425 Old 02-21-2017, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post
Looks like there's not going to be any OTA soon due to broadband. We'll all be forced to use streaming services exclusively, I think.
Well, I clicked that I "liked" your post, but mostly I dislike the end of OTA. It does seem more and more likely, however. Internet has become the "must have" utility and appointment based viewing (original air time necessity) is done. The super bowl is the only thing I want to watch live. Everything else could be a recording, IMHO. Which means everything could be streamed.

bac522, you are right about the younger generation moving away from OTA. For one thing, no one wants to take the time to "tune" an antenna and receiver. And watching OTA TV on a mobile device is a contradictory concept.
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post #11409 of 11425 Old 02-21-2017, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post
Looks like there's not going to be any OTA soon due to broadband. We'll all be forced to use streaming services exclusively, I think.
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Originally Posted by bac522 View Post
There is a resurgence in OTA because of Cable/Satellite companies continual price rising so it might slow the demise of OTA for awhile, but the younger generation is growing up online and traditional broadcast TV and AM/FM radio doesn't appeal to that generation. In 15 to 30 years I see a vastly different picture for OTA, it's too bad, because it's nice to not always have to rely on the internet for my video or music.
Going strictly OTA is not going to be as attractive after the repack, for sure. Most areas will still have the big networks, and the largest subchannels, but it is definitely going kill off the smaller ones or drive them to cable.
Also, if OTA fades away, there will be nothing to hold down the prices of the lower cable tiers.
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post #11410 of 11425 Old 02-22-2017, 07:07 AM
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@ Andrea Circle: Channel 13 might be WGME-TV (CBS) from Portland, ME. I don't know what channel they're using for digital, however.

As for the now-former channel 50, what would area cable systems replace that with? Even the Quality Inn And Conference Center I stayed at in Brattleboro, VT this past December (on US Route 5 south) carried them.
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post #11411 of 11425 Old 02-22-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post
WBIN is toast:
I saw the news. Channel 50 is off axis for us so have not been able to receive it since the digital conversion. We have a rotor but never use it. It will be interesting to see what the Boston/Southern NH TV market looks like after repacking.

As for OTA going away, I hope not. Evolution shows over specialization is dangerous. If for any reason we loose Internet access we still have OTA as long as we have power. For all its robustness in some aspects the Internet is actually very fragile, so it is nice having multiple delivery methods.

We are at an interesting junction, OTA use is growing but agree with other posters that lots of households are Internet only. Both our children have Cable and cellphones, but neither is interested in traditional TV Cable or OTA.

/tom
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post #11412 of 11425 Old 02-22-2017, 07:21 PM
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Binney bought the station and pulled licenses on two others with the intent on cashing in on this. WBIN's programming will go, but Antenna TV and Grit will show up somewhere else. If all we lose is 56 and 50, I will consider this reverse auction a win for OTA'ers. OTA is not going away. It's free. Nothing else is. I have had DirecTV Now since December. 90% of my viewing is OTA. No PBS, CBS, Decades, ABC, MeTV, NBC, This TV, Fox, Laff, Escape, WSBK, Heroes and Icons, CW, BUZZR, Comet, Bounce, The Works, GetTV, ION, Qubo, or ION Life. Did I mention it was free?
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post #11413 of 11425 Old 02-22-2017, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KEVINL71 View Post
@ Andrea Circle: Channel 13 might be WGME-TV (CBS) from Portland, ME. I don't know what channel they're using for digital, however.

As for the now-former channel 50, what would area cable systems replace that with? Even the Quality Inn And Conference Center I stayed at in Brattleboro, VT this past December (on US Route 5 south) carried them.
I assume that it will either disappear from the lineup (like it will on Directv - one day, there just won't be a channel 50 anymore) or cable might put another channel on 18 and not think about it too much. WBIN just won't exist. And their subchannels could theoretically show up elsewhere in the market, assuming there is room.

There is WGME-TV in Portland, but in southern NH, it is more likely ch 13, RF 36, WYCN-CD Nashua, Heroes and Icons. WGME does not use 13 RF.

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post #11414 of 11425 Old Yesterday, 12:26 AM
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Feels like WLVI is already off the air. The CW has been replaced by the 'Boston, Make $$ in Real Estate' channel.
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post #11415 of 11425 Old Yesterday, 06:52 AM
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I assume that it will either disappear from the lineup (like it will on Directv - one day, there just won't be a channel 50 anymore) or cable might put another channel on 18 and not think about it too much. WBIN just won't exist. And their subchannels could theoretically show up elsewhere in the market, assuming there is room.

There is WGME-TV in Portland, but in southern NH, it is more likely ch 13, RF 36, WYCN-CD Nashua, Heroes and Icons. WGME does not use 13 RF.
RE: Ch 50 and 13:
1) Ch 13 is indeed WYCN, but the FCC database doesn't seem to have this information nor do any of the online sources such as TitanTV or TVFool (36 is listed as a different station). I'm waiting for a really good weather day to determine whether Ch 50 has already turned off the breadth of their programming and may only be airing previously sold informercials.
2) The article I read was that the bandwidth is being sold to broadband. If so, there will be no channel 50 in the future, period. As EJB1980 said, it's possible that some other station will pick up the substations (heck, we have *two* escapes, so maybe they will reshuffle).

RE: Ch 56
I've been watching "Modern Family" nightly; I don't think it's off the air. Maybe they're just doing heavy infomercials during the day?

Does anyone have an idea of when this repack disruption might resolve?

Finally, I'm seeing the following potential future for broadcasting in my crystal ball:
1) People subscribe to channels that are delivered via broadband a la Netflix. CBS already has this and I think that the other major stations do too.
2) Since the consumption model in 1) is similar to subscribing to all of a music production company (think of subscribing to BMG-Chrysalis and then getting access to all of that publishing house's music), maybe they will introduce a way to buy each show. In other words, one could purchase a season of House of Cards. This model would be more like buying a music album.

I think both models would be available since consumption model 1) would be appropriate for channels like HGTV and local/national news channels.

All of this assumes that we use nothing but internet access. You see, I think that not only OTA will go the way of the dinosaurs, but so will traditional cable and satellite TV broadcasting. I think that that cable and satellite won't broadcast traditional TV signals, but will instead be used to provide internet access -- all content will be streamed.

Although access could be implemented via cable,satellite, fiber, LTE, and other emergent technologies to increase our ability to survive connectivity in case of catastrophe, error, mischievousness, or warfare, delivery via internet is still extremely vulnerable because only a few companies actually control DNS and switch the traffic. That problem is going to have to be solved.

I say this having just moved my Mom into a newly built Assisted Living/Memory facility. It wasn't possible for me to use OTA nor to buy her a land phone line. Without these, the poor woman cannot really operate the cable or even the phone. Everything is moving very quickly, and I think that pace of change will continue.
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post #11416 of 11425 Old Yesterday, 07:30 AM
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I'm seeing the following potential future for broadcasting in my crystal ball:
1) People subscribe to channels that are delivered via broadband a la Netflix. CBS already has this and I think that the other major stations do too.
2) Since the consumption model in 1) is similar to subscribing to all of a music production company (think of subscribing to BMG-Chrysalis and then getting access to all of that publishing house's music), maybe they will introduce a way to buy each show. In other words, one could purchase a season of House of Cards. This model would be more like buying a music album.
I don't think broadcast or linear programming are going anywhere. In fact, I expect continued growth. I expect ATSC 3.0 to arrive as a supplement to ATSC 1.0 with a router streaming the signal to devices throughout the home. With ATSC 3.0's security features and 4k, I expect LINEAR premium services to be delivered via OTA. Probably very similar to the original Home Box Office. I also expect on demand programming to be delivered as part of services like DirecTV Now. I say this having used Vue and DTV Now.
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post #11417 of 11425 Old Yesterday, 07:56 AM
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I don't think broadcast or linear programming are going anywhere. In fact, I expect continued growth. I expect ATSC 3.0 to arrive as a supplement to ATSC 1.0 with a router streaming the signal to devices throughout the home. With ATSC 3.0's security features and 4k, I expect LINEAR premium services to be delivered via OTA. Probably very similar to the original Home Box Office. I also expect on demand programming to be delivered as part of services like DirecTV Now. I say this having used Vue and DTV Now.
Didn't ATSC 3.0 start in S. Korea already?

And speaking of L.G., what is being used in France so that one can have a single box in the basement and different LG devices in the home can acess that box as if there are separate cable boxes at each device ? I *hate* boxes, which is another reason that I am an OTA fan.
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Quote:
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RE: Ch 50 and 13:
1) Ch 13 is indeed WYCN, but the FCC database doesn't seem to have this information nor do any of the online sources such as TitanTV or TVFool (36 is listed as a different station). I'm waiting for a really good weather day to determine whether Ch 50 has already turned off the breadth of their programming and may only be airing previously sold informercials.
2) The article I read was that the bandwidth is being sold to broadband. If so, there will be no channel 50 in the future, period. As EJB1980 said, it's possible that some other station will pick up the substations (heck, we have *two* escapes, so maybe they will reshuffle).

RE: Ch 56
I've been watching "Modern Family" nightly; I don't think it's off the air. Maybe they're just doing heavy infomercials during the day?

Does anyone have an idea of when this repack disruption might resolve?

Finally, I'm seeing the following potential future for broadcasting in my crystal ball:
1) People subscribe to channels that are delivered via broadband a la Netflix. CBS already has this and I think that the other major stations do too.
2) Since the consumption model in 1) is similar to subscribing to all of a music production company (think of subscribing to BMG-Chrysalis and then getting access to all of that publishing house's music), maybe they will introduce a way to buy each show. In other words, one could purchase a season of House of Cards. This model would be more like buying a music album.

I think both models would be available since consumption model 1) would be appropriate for channels like HGTV and local/national news channels.

All of this assumes that we use nothing but internet access. You see, I think that not only OTA will go the way of the dinosaurs, but so will traditional cable and satellite TV broadcasting. I think that that cable and satellite won't broadcast traditional TV signals, but will instead be used to provide internet access -- all content will be streamed.

Although access could be implemented via cable,satellite, fiber, LTE, and other emergent technologies to increase our ability to survive connectivity in case of catastrophe, error, mischievousness, or warfare, delivery via internet is still extremely vulnerable because only a few companies actually control DNS and switch the traffic. That problem is going to have to be solved.

I say this having just moved my Mom into a newly built Assisted Living/Memory facility. It wasn't possible for me to use OTA nor to buy her a land phone line. Without these, the poor woman cannot really operate the cable or even the phone. Everything is moving very quickly, and I think that pace of change will continue.
Rabbitears has the info about WYCN http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...n=wycn#station
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post #11419 of 11425 Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM
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RE: Ch 50 and 13:
1) Ch 13 is indeed WYCN, but the FCC database doesn't seem to have this information nor do any of the online sources such as TitanTV or TVFool (36 is listed as a different station). I'm waiting for a really good weather day to determine whether Ch 50 has already turned off the breadth of their programming and may only be airing previously sold informercials.
2) The article I read was that the bandwidth is being sold to broadband. If so, there will be no channel 50 in the future, period. As EJB1980 said, it's possible that some other station will pick up the substations (heck, we have *two* escapes, so maybe they will reshuffle).
WYCN is owned by OTA Broadcastng, in turn owned by Michael Dell (Dell Computers). The primary purpose of OTA was to buy TV stations that could be acquired at a low price, with the intent of making a profit by selling the licenses in the spectrum auction and shutting them down. Expect WYCN to be gone soon. OTA also owns WLWC, the CW affiliate in Providence.
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post #11420 of 11425 Old Today, 06:50 AM
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WYCN is owned by OTA Broadcastng, in turn owned by Michael Dell (Dell Computers). The primary purpose of OTA was to buy TV stations that could be acquired at a low price, with the intent of making a profit by selling the licenses in the spectrum auction and shutting them down. Expect WYCN to be gone soon. OTA also owns WLWC, the CW affiliate in Providence.
That is very interesting. Part of me is uneasy because we are losing many OTA stations while another part of me is mad at myself for not thinking of the scheme first.
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post #11421 of 11425 Old Today, 10:23 AM
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That is very interesting. Part of me is uneasy because we are losing many OTA stations while another part of me is mad at myself for not thinking of the scheme first.
Here is a link to the FCC website with a PDF file of the opening bids:
https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/at...-15-1191A2.pdf
Those sales that have been announced have been for a fraction of those bids. But if the sale price is greater than the value of the station as a broadcaster, than the owner comes out ahead. For example WBIN is listed at $301 million, and sold for $68 million. WYCN is listed at $290 million. There is no way it won't be sold.
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But if the sale price is greater than the value of the station as a broadcaster, than the owner comes out ahead. For example WBIN is listed at $301 million, and sold for $68 million. WYCN is listed at $290 million. There is no way it won't be sold.
Unfortunately, many local TV station owners viewed the auction as a once in a lifetime opportunity to cash in.

WBIN-TV sold its broadcast rights in an FCC auction for $68.1 million dollars. Additionally, it entered into a channel-sharing sale of its remaining television license rights to a major television group for an undisclosed amount that is estimated by insiders to be an additional $10 million to 30 million, the company said in a news release.

Binnie Media only purchased the broadcast rights five years ago for $9 million, which amounts to a 1000% return on investment!
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post #11423 of 11425 Old Today, 11:05 AM
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I don't think broadcast or linear programming are going anywhere. In fact, I expect continued growth. I expect ATSC 3.0 to arrive as a supplement to ATSC 1.0 with a router streaming the signal to devices throughout the home. With ATSC 3.0's security features and 4k, I expect LINEAR premium services to be delivered via OTA. Probably very similar to the original Home Box Office. I also expect on demand programming to be delivered as part of services like DirecTV Now. I say this having used Vue and DTV Now.
Hey, found this: http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Rele...C-343607A1.pdf . Perhaps we'll see ATSC 3.0 sooner than I thought? It would be terrific if some aspiring Boston station would show how ATSC 3.0 could win consumers over cable and satellite.
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post #11424 of 11425 Old Today, 11:52 AM
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From that note...
  • Voluntary Use: Proposes to authorize voluntary use of ATSC 3.0 transmissions and to incorporate the relevant portions of the new standard into the Commission’s rules. The NPRM tentatively concludes that a Next Gen TV tuner mandate for new television receivers is not necessary at this time.
  • Local Simulcasting: Proposes to require “local simulcasting” for stations that choose to deploy Next Gen TV so broadcasters can continue to provide DTV service using the current ATSC 1.0 standard at the same time that they offer ATSC 3.0. This approach will minimize disruption to consumers by ensuring that they will still be able to use their existing TV sets, which have only current-generation DTV and analog tuners.
  • MVPD Carriage: Proposes to require that MVPDs continue carrying broadcasters’ DTV signals, using ATSC 1.0, but not to require them to carry ATSC 3.0 signals during the period when broadcasters are voluntarily implementing ATSC 3.0 service. The NPRM also asks about issues related to the voluntary carriage of ATSC 3.0 signals through retransmission consent.
  • Service and Interference Protection: Asks for comment on whether Next Gen TV transmissions will raise any interference concerns for existing DTV operations or for any other services or
    devices that operate in the TV bands or in adjacent bands.
  • Consumer Protection and Education: Tentatively concludes that television stations offering ATSC 3.0 should be subject to the public interest obligations that currently apply to television broadcasters and asks for comment on whether broadcasters should be required to provide on-air notifications to educate consumers about Next Gen TV service deployment and ATSC 1.0 simulcasting.

So, with no mandate to include ATSC 3.0 tuners, the requirement that ATSC 1.0 must be simulcast, and no requirement for cable companies to carry ATSC 3.0 stations, ATSC 3.0 is going to be a VERY gradual rollout. My speculation is that you will 'subscribe' to a service, add a router to your home, then stream ATSC 3.0 programming to set top boxes.
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post #11425 of 11425 Old Today, 05:56 PM
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It will be most interesting to see how the spectrum speculators make out in the end. I suspect some of them will end up taking a real bath as this particular example shows (if the comments are to be believed): http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/1...-for-2-million
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