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Old 03-06-2017, 04:47 AM
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Hard to believe that people pimping HD antennas and Digital antennas are just ignorant. Antennas Direct KNOWS better and commonly makes the same assertion.

No such thing as a 'High Definition' antenna. No such thing as a 'Digital' antenna. Antennas simply collect energy at certain frequencies. Most reviews and ads fail to provide the basic information that a consumer needs when choosing an antenna and fail to test/specify the basic performance parameters that a consumer needs to know when selecting an antenna -- is this a low vhf, high vhf, uhf, or combo antenna? How well does it pull in low vhf, high vhf, and uhf signals? The other key specs are gain at specific frequencies and beam width. Gain is the relative measure of an antenna's ability to direct or concentrate radio frequency energy in a particular direction or pattern. Beam width is the angle between the half-power (-3 dB) points of the main lobe, when referenced to the peak effective radiated power of the main lobe.

These characteristics are important because you cannot receive a station broadcasting at a frequency the antenna cannot collect, too much or too little signal can result in poor reception, and, for those whose broadcasters are not in the same exact location, the beam width will help determine which channels will be picked up when an antenna is pointed in a given direction.

A simple polar chart with supported frequencies tells you everything you need to know to buy an antenna, yet, very few manufacturers link such specs to their product descriptions...


Last edited by wizwor; 03-06-2017 at 05:37 AM. Reason: add polar chart image
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
Hard to believe that people pimping HD antennas and Digital antennas are just ignorant. Antennas Direct KNOWS better and commonly makes the same assertion.
Marketing 101, the vast majority of buyers have no clue that HD signals are delivered over analog RF. I just read an article that to get your best picture quality over OTA these are the 4K TV sets you should consider...hhhhhhmmmm...I asked the author what TV station in America was transmitting 4K OTA...crickets on the response.

When selling to the ignorant consumer, companies unfortunately must lower themselves to that level for right or wrong.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:10 AM
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... what TV station in America was transmitting 4K OTA...
Okay, I'll bite..

How about WRAL in Raleigh-Durham, NC?
http://atsc.org/newsletter/capitol-b...ision-station/
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:27 AM
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With a bad outcome and bad reviews of the product online and via word of mouth.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:51 AM
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Okay, I'll bite..

How about WRAL in Raleigh-Durham, NC?
http://atsc.org/newsletter/capitol-b...ision-station/
Darn guess I need to head out and buy a 4K TV with OTA support
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:41 AM
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looking for antenna help

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a418b721aa9f

Hi, I live in freetown ma and will either be putting a small antenna on my chimney 35ft high or a large antenna in my attic 25ft high. Wondering which antennas would be a good choice and which you think would be a better option, small antenna outside or large antenna inside. My attic is massive and could easily fit an antenna 10-15ft long and 6ft high.

For the small antenna attached to the chimney I was thinking:
RCA Compact Outdoor Yagi HDTV Antenna with 60 Mile Range

As for the large antenna in the attic, I'm open to recommendations.
HD7694P Platinum HD Series Antenna or HD7698P Platinum HD Series Antenna or Winegard Heavy Duty Platinum VHF UHF FM HDTV Antenna (HD8200U)

They are no trees within 150ft of the house, my roof is plywood with 1 layer of asphalt shinlges and solar panels on the south facing part of the roof.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:42 PM
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dane you are in good shape. either location should work. preamp may help. either/any yagi may work inside the attic too.
for the early years of HDTV I had attic YAGI at 50 miles from the boston/needham towers and it worked well but required a UHF preamp. I may try to restore the setup soon and will report any interesting results here.
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dane156 View Post
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a418b721aa9f

Hi, I live in freetown ma and will either be putting a small antenna on my chimney 35ft high or a large antenna in my attic 25ft high. Wondering which antennas would be a good choice and which you think would be a better option, small antenna outside or large antenna inside. My attic is massive and could easily fit an antenna 10-15ft long and 6ft high.
.
Personally I'm a fan of outdoor installs, a lot less variables to contend with, but I realize too that attic installs are a lot easier. Outdoors I'd go with Antenna's Direct Clearstream 2V (although technically you don't need the VHF element it comes with). Point to 330 degrees magnetic north and you should be good to go. You TVFool report is very clean so you should have no problem picking up a number of stations.

Last edited by bac522; 03-17-2017 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:29 AM
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You have an enviable TVFool Report. Have you looked at the list of channels to see which you would like to pull in? I ask because you have uhf and vhf stations in multiple directions and multiple local affiliates for national networks. Deciding you do not care about a couple of these could simplify things for you. Generally, I open the wiki for each television station to see which sub-channels are carried and use the 'real' channel to determine which frequency each station broadcasts on. For instance, you have no VHF-Lo stations at all, so no need to worry about the really big antennas designed to pull in those frequencies. In the VHF-Hi range, you have WNAC @ 296, WPRI @ 310, and WWDP @ 348 (I don't think you will have much luck with WMUR, WENH, and other VHF-Hi stations below). WWDP is a shopping channel (Evine). I would be inclined to ignore WWDP and point one of these at 303...

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/30-2476

I would get a DB8e for your UHF stations...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/34528890?...&wl13=&veh=sem

Or the less expensive HDB8X...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Solid-Sig...EitOizfL91ouWo

(I provided Walmart links because they are ubiquitous and offer easy returns.)

Both have panels that can be articulated to cover a wider area with sufficient signal strength. That's what you have. You probably are not interested in the channels south of 270 and probably would have trouble with them if you were interested. 19 and 27 are spanish language (Telemundo and Univision), so you would articulate the panels to point to 308 and 350. You can probably pull in WLWC from behind. If not, you could leave the reflector off one half of the antenna. This would increase gain from the back at the expense of gain from the front.

I would put everything in the attic first, if possible, since it is easier to work indoors, you eliminate grounding issues, and your antenna is protected from the weather. If you cannot sufficiently separate the two antennas, try to get the UHF antenna working in the attic and mounting the vhf antenna on the roof -- it's less expensive, has fewer moving parts, and is less of a sail in the wind.

Couple the two antennas with one of these...

https://www.amazon.com/RCA-TVPRAMP1R.../dp/B003P92D9Y

I think you will be a pretty happy guy.

Be sure to install and ground the antenna(s) properly...

http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntInstallGuide.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by dane156 View Post
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a418b721aa9f

Hi, I live in freetown ma and will either be putting a small antenna on my chimney 35ft high or a large antenna in my attic 25ft high. Wondering which antennas would be a good choice and which you think would be a better option, small antenna outside or large antenna inside. My attic is massive and could easily fit an antenna 10-15ft long and 6ft high.

For the small antenna attached to the chimney I was thinking:
RCA Compact Outdoor Yagi HDTV Antenna with 60 Mile Range

As for the large antenna in the attic, I'm open to recommendations.
HD7694P Platinum HD Series Antenna or HD7698P Platinum HD Series Antenna or Winegard Heavy Duty Platinum VHF UHF FM HDTV Antenna (HD8200U)

They are no trees within 150ft of the house, my roof is plywood with 1 layer of asphalt shinlges and solar panels on the south facing part of the roof.

Last edited by wizwor; 03-17-2017 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 01:14 PM
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For instance, you have no VHF-Lo stations at all...


I can all but guarantee you WILL.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.

Last edited by DrDon; 03-17-2017 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 01:25 PM
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I can all but guarantee you WILL.
Based on what? What Boston/Providence stations are moving from anything to VHF-Lo?
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:18 PM
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Based on what? What Boston/Providence stations are moving from anything to VHF-Lo?
Former moderator Ken H bequeathed me his "Magic 8 Ball" which is never wrong. I'm not at liberty to disclose exactly which station.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:35 PM
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You have an enviable TVFool Report. Have you looked at the list of channels to see which you would like to pull in? I ask because you have uhf and vhf stations in multiple directions and multiple local affiliates for national networks. Deciding you do not care about a couple of these could simplify things for you. Generally, I open the wiki for each television station to see which sub-channels are carried and use the 'real' channel to determine which frequency each station broadcasts on.
How do I check the wiki to decide what channels are represented?
Thanks for the info so far, I'd def rather do in the attic if possible since wiring everything would be easier.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:33 PM
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Also, is the Deep Fringe Directional Antenna VHF-Hi HDTV 174 - 230MHz needed? It looks like the vhf stations are within 20miles, unless I'm reading the tvfool link wrong.
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
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Also, is the Deep Fringe Directional Antenna VHF-Hi HDTV 174 - 230MHz needed? It looks like the vhf stations are within 20miles, unless I'm reading the tvfool link wrong.
Actually WPRI is VHF (hadn't seen this in my prior post) so you would need the VHF element (Real 13) otherwise all your other VHF stations are 90+ miles away and would be very difficult to receive...so not sure what you're looking at. And if DrDon is correct then you maybe having another VHF station...wonder if NBC is trying to work something in after the debacle with WHDH.

Attic installs can be tricky with metal flashing on the edge of the roof, roof nails, etc. Sometimes just moving an antenna a feet can make the difference between no signal and good signal. Many have had success with attic installs, personally I prefer the roof and be done with it. I like the Clearstream because they tend to be small and don't stick out on the roof. I use the Clearstream 4 and no one has ever noticed it on the roof, but, yes, roof installs are a bit more difficult then attic.

You're TVFool report is really good, so you should have good success in the attic.

Last edited by bac522; 03-20-2017 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:25 PM
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I can all but guarantee you WILL.
Perhaps this would be WSBE (PBS) moving from 21 to 2 ?
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:30 PM
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How do I check the wiki to decide what channels are represented?
Thanks for the info so far, I'd def rather do in the attic if possible since wiring everything would be easier.
Simply google your station, look for a hit on wikipedia, then check our the digital channels listing. For instance, google wjar tv and the second result is the wikipedia entry. Click digital channels and you will see that WJAR is an NBC affiliate with sub-channels MeTV, Comet, and TBD.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:46 PM
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Former moderator Ken H bequeathed me his "Magic 8 Ball" which is never wrong. I'm not at liberty to disclose exactly which station.
Can't say I believe your magic eight ball. Can it tell us if any Providence or Boston stations are moving to VHF-Lo?
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:50 PM
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Perhaps this would be WSBE (PBS) moving from 21 to 2 ?
If it is, there is nothing to get excited about. WGBH and WGBX are both on UHF and offer more programming.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:40 AM
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Can't say I believe your magic eight ball.
Well, that's certainly your prerogative.

Quote:
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Can it tell us if any Providence or Boston stations are moving to VHF-Lo?
Yes, it can.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:18 AM
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@dane156 you should keep the repacking in the back of your mind, but also keep in mind that the affected stations have YEARS to effect the transition. You should also consider the possibility that stations could physically move as part of the channel sharing provision.

Any station that moves from UHF to VHF in a market where there are no current VHF broadcasts will lose a significant number of viewers due to the fact that most antennas sold in the last decade have been UHF. Stations looking to cash in by doing this will not likely be big spenders on content, IMHO.

You can wait for three years for this to shake out or simply work with what you know. You will not buy a better UHF antenna (especially for your situation) than the DB8e. So, worst case, you are looking at replacing the $35 30-2476 with a high/lo vhf antenna.

These are my opinions unsubstantiated by Magic Eight Ball or Ouija Board.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:42 PM
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My questions are
a)When will Ch 50 finally go off the air?
b)will 62 and 8 exchange frequencies?
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Old Yesterday, 05:24 AM
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from http://www.nh1.com/news/WBIN-TV-sold...tal-platforms/

WBIN-TV and its television operations will cease broadcasting in the coming months.

Atkinson said, “NH1 Radio News and NH1.com will continue to provide breaking news and information to our viewers and listeners. We are investing significantly in new technologies so we can deliver content where people want it--digitally--on their mobile phones and devices, tablets and home computers. The days of running home to watch news on a television set are quickly disappearing.”

Haven't read anything about wmfp. wmfp is real channel 18 outside the FCC's targeted frequencies.
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Old Today, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
@dane156 you should keep the repacking in the back of your mind, but also keep in mind that the affected stations have YEARS to effect the transition. You should also consider the possibility that stations could physically move as part of the channel sharing provision.

Any station that moves from UHF to VHF in a market where there are no current VHF broadcasts will lose a significant number of viewers due to the fact that most antennas sold in the last decade have been UHF. Stations looking to cash in by doing this will not likely be big spenders on content, IMHO.

You can wait for three years for this to shake out or simply work with what you know. You will not buy a better UHF antenna (especially for your situation) than the DB8e. So, worst case, you are looking at replacing the $35 30-2476 with a high/lo vhf antenna.

These are my opinions unsubstantiated by Magic Eight Ball or Ouija Board.
I got the db8e and vhf antenna you recommended. I'll report back once I set it up.
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