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post #14221 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 01:05 AM
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Well on the high recommendations of the AVS Forum Denver, CO - OTA thread participants, I watched LOST in HD Wednesday night. Here are my highly qualified impressions:

-Story was extremely average for a TV show these days. Less interesting that CSI.

-Exactly how does the Viggo Mortensen character have the same exact amount of stubble/hair length/hair cleanliness (or lack thereof) at every moment of every day, even in the flashbacks when he is in civilization with amenities such as razors, shampoo, etc. He never shaves nor does he ever grow more stubble. Ever. This lack of attention to detail actually annoys me to a great degree.

-The picture quality was very good.

-Lots of commercials. Lots.

-Dolby Digital EX sound was underwhelming. The commercials had better sound. I didn't notice anything in the surrounds over maybe 6db. Zero discrete subwoofer. Do people who mix TV shows feel that we are not ready for movie theater/DVD quality sound? Why broadcast in 5.1 if you're not going to take advantage of it? This also annoys me.

-Channel 7 is weird. Normally the sound was fine, but when they get ready to air their local commercials, the sound gets really loud, jumps back and forth between 5.1 and 2.0 before finally settling on a quiet 2.0 feed, which the rest of the commercials are then aired in. When the show starts again, it is a couple of seconds before they decide that 5.1 is to resume. Pick one, fools!

-Were there any ugly women on the plane? Were they flying to a hot person convention? What the hell?

-Although not near as bad as shows like CSI, I noticed that the producers HATE having a camera stationary at any time. Lots of shakey cam. I guess crappy camera work is the current trend. No skill needed.
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post #14222 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 07:15 AM
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Try Numbers as a program for low end. Some pretty good bass coming during the breaks in the action
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post #14223 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 07:27 AM
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Quote:


Channel 7 is weird. Normally the sound was fine, but when they get ready to air their local commercials, the sound gets really loud, jumps back and forth between 5.1 and 2.0 before finally settling on a quiet 2.0 feed

This is due to the signal changing from the network 5.1 to the local spot insertion with 2.0. Your receiver has to switch it's decoding as it get a different signal. It happens on most receivers. And on my HK receiver, the 2.0 is always quite a bit louder that the 5.1 levels.

Its annoying when they change to local news headlines, my receiver cuts off the first couple of words. Anybody out there have a A/V receiver that has 'instant', seemless audio switching?

Ernie

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post #14224 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post

Well on the high recommendations of the AVS Forum Denver, CO - OTA thread participants, I watched LOST in HD Wednesday night. Here are my highly qualified impressions:

-Story was extremely average for a TV show these days. Less interesting that CSI.

I can see how that would seem given that you don't know the rest of the back story. This is a very character driven show. There have probably been 5-6 episodes of Sawyer's backstory, scattered throughout the two seasons. This show has MASSIVE story arcs. Never do we get anything solved in a single episode.

Personally, I liked the episode last night. To each his own.

Quote:


-Exactly how does the Viggo Mortensen character have the same exact amount of stubble/hair length/hair cleanliness (or lack thereof) at every moment of every day, even in the flashbacks when he is in civilization with amenities such as razors, shampoo, etc. He never shaves nor does he ever grow more stubble. Ever. This lack of attention to detail actually annoys me to a great degree.

I noticed that last night too. Thanks for ruining it for me Joe.

Quote:


-Were there any ugly women on the plane? Were they flying to a hot person convention? What the hell?

What, do you prefer ugly women? Do any shows have ugly women as cast member these days?
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post #14225 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

Its annoying when they change to local news headlines, my receiver cuts off the first couple of words. Anybody out there have a A/V receiver that has 'instant', seemless audio switching?

My old Denon AVR-2800 does. Although I did notice the annoying switches between loud and soft, my receiver never lost "lock" on the signal. I would assume the newer Denons are the same.
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post #14226 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post

Well on the high recommendations of the AVS Forum Denver, CO - OTA thread participants, I watched LOST in HD Wednesday night.

Go here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=449662 for a thread devoted to lost. As a measure of its interest, there have been 622,800 views of that thread!

I agree the show slows down from time to time, but the overall plot and character development have my family hooked. I do think it would be hard to jump into Lost without the background. And yes the constant beard stubble has bothered me too. It is easy to nitpik the details on the show as you would find out if the read the enormous Lost thread above.

And, my Pioneer receiver switches the sound just fine. What is more annoying to me is their switching to the SD picture signal a second before the actual show segment is done.

Dennis
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post #14227 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidboy View Post

There have probably been 5-6 episodes of Sawyer's backstory, scattered throughout the two seasons. This show has MASSIVE story arcs. Never do we get anything solved in a single episode.

Thats one of the reasons why I seem to have bailed on the show this year after having watched it religiously last year. I think wifey liked it more than I did but she doesnt care that we're not watching it any more either.

Actually I never really bought into the premise to begin with and then that coupled with what you just mentioned about never get anything solved made it seem too many times like I had just wasted an hour of my time.

For me the concept would've worked better as just a long movie or a mini-series. I dont really need to know the complete background of these people any more than I'd need a show like Survivor to dedicate basically whole hour shows to the backgrounds of each of the people on that show.

But whatever. I'm sure I get a kick out of some shows that other people wouldnt watch for 2 minutes.. so as they say, diff strokes for diff folks.

Dan

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post #14228 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post

-Dolby Digital EX sound was underwhelming.

I'm sure the sound isn't EX encoded. If it shows up as such on your decoder, it's your decoder producing a rear ch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colofan View Post

Try Numbers as a program for low end.

Would that be the low end in terms of story/writing quality

Ernie, I think my receiver does pretty much the same thing. But actually I haven't watched anything outside of the SB on KMGWhatever. There were actually a few HD commercials I enjoyed watching (and the others about made me puke)

Ron

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post #14229 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 10:58 AM
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Ernie, Maybe you should try one of those Ultimate Electronics cables, I hear they work like magic!

Tim
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post #14230 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

Its annoying when they change to local news headlines, my receiver cuts off the first couple of words. Anybody out there have a A/V receiver that has 'instant', seemless audio switching?

When my cheapie Lenoxx HT395 looses the 5.1 stream, it pauses for a second and then switches to 2.0. It could at least go to Pro Logic mode, but it always insists on going to stereo for me.

This used to happen on all stations, but I recently noticed it doesn't happen on KDVR or KWGN anymore. The transition is absolutely seamless on those two now. What could they have possibly done to make that happen and why aren't other stations doing it?
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post #14231 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post

-Story was extremely average for a TV show these days. Less interesting that CSI.

Lost started out the season with some very strong stories, but lately they seem to be dragging a bit. The same thing happened in the middle of the first season. Hopefully they will finish the season strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post

-Were there any ugly women on the plane? Were they flying to a hot person convention? What the hell?

I guess you would also have to wonder why crime investigation units, hospitals, suburban neighborhoods, or anything else you could make a TV show about are populated almost exclusively by very attractive people.

BenQ W1070 | Denon AVR-3313CI | Samsung PN51E7000 Plasma | HTPC
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post #14232 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 12:12 PM
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The Picture Quality is Excellent on Crapcast. The sound on the other hand in 5.1 mode is extremely compressed but does on occasion bring in some sound in the rear channels.
I will be switching back to Direct TV and bring my locals in with the OTA tuner as soon as they start offering more channels and hopefully stop the HD-Lite Non-Sense.
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post #14233 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 12:42 PM
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Like I said Joe. You have to start at the beginining for most of what you saw last night to make sense. I'd think the same thing you did if I had just started watching it last night too.
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post #14234 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisMileHi View Post

Go here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=449662 for a thread devoted to lost. As a measure of its interest, there have been 622,800 views of that thread!

622,800 and counting...
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post #14235 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 06:13 PM
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My Sony receiver, which I keep set on DD 5.1 so it does its conversion thing for non-DD 5.1 signals, does a decent job of making the transition from the DD 5.1 main program to the DD 2.0 commercials. However, there is a significant volume difference between the two. Part of that is just that it is using more power to handle the DD 5.1 signal than it does to handle the DD 2.0 signal with a given volume setting. The other part is that, despite what the FCC studies concluded, networks turn up the volume for commercials. That sucks!

I watched the Grammy's (spelled correctly?) last night and the HD and DD were fantastic. Too bad the content wasn't as good. I taped, yes taped (my DVDR is kaput; JVC has agreed to replace it after 2 repair attempts) Lost. We fell asleep trying to watch the tape. Real exciting stuff!
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post #14236 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 06:36 PM
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I doubt anyone can get KMGH to be totally seamless in that regard. They use old cobbled together stuff. I remember when I used to use an E* 6000 to get them OTA not only would the audio do that every time in that scenario, but it would even cause the channel banner to pop up across the screen all by itself at the same time. Like the 6000 thought it had just tuned to that channel all of a sudden.

Remember, even though "nobody" could see their signal for so long, some of the stations digital broadcasting equipment is pushing 7 years old now since they first went "on air" back in '99.

Prolly makes my old 6000 even seem state of the art.

Dan

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post #14237 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 07:10 PM
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Did anybody watch the Grammy's last night? It was absolutely awful! On the high energy music / live band segments, the pixelation was horrible. With all the fast action and strobe lights, it was a true torture test for encoding. And it failed miserably. Just another reason for using full bandwith and no sub-channels.

I really liked the animated open segment with the Gorillas.

Ernie

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post #14238 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 08:15 PM
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Ernie,

I think that it is worth noting that KCNC does not apply additional compression for sub channels. This is about as good an example of the evils of MPEG-2 as we will see. I would love to see the SDI direct feed of this event or a transfer to BD or HD-DVD.

I did think that some of the performances showed how good an ATSC broadcast (and DD) can sound. I though that "Ordinary People" (can't remember the artist) sounded great. That song sounded better than any of the "Sound Stage" DD 5.1 broadcasts that I have seen on PBS.
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post #14239 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 08:26 PM
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Yeah, MPEG2 isn't the end all to compression by any means. But this was the worst, I've seen yet. My wife was watching and said, what's wrong with our projector, is it broken? Then I had to explain the whole issue...

Ernie

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post #14240 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

Did anybody watch the Grammy's last night? It was absolutely awful! On the high energy music / live band segments, the pixelation was horrible. With all the fast action and strobe lights, it was a true torture test for encoding. And it failed miserably. Just another reason for using full bandwith and no sub-channels.

I really liked the animated open segment with the Gorillas.

Yes, as I noted a couple of posts earlier. However, I didn't see the pixelation problems that you noted. I was using an OTA signal at about 80% strength on a Dish 811 (set to 1080i input) to a Sammy HLN507W via component cable. The PQ looked fine to me. Better than last year and much much better than two years ago.
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post #14241 of 17938 Old 02-09-2006, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa View Post

This is due to the signal changing from the network 5.1 to the local spot insertion with 2.0. Your receiver has to switch it's decoding as it get a different signal.

Yeah I know, but the way KMGH did it that one time was much more odd that I'm used to hearing. It switched back and forth a couple of times before settling on 2.0 and was very weird. Usually on other stations there is just a quick second of silence during the switch and that's it. I don't understand why the local stations just can't "Pro Logic" their 2 channel audio into the 5.1 stream. It's really easy to do and not very expensive. They probably just don't know any better. They are TV stations after all, not sound mixers.

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Originally Posted by Squid Boy View Post

Do any shows have ugly women as cast member these days?

Maybe not any ugly cast members but I have seen some that look pretty bad on their respective shows:



Now granted both of these actresses can look mighty damn fine in real life, but the first one has a jaw that looks very man-ish on that Law and Order show, and the second one, I don't know what they did to her but pictures of her elsewhere look about 10 billion times better than she looks on the show.
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post #14242 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 02:42 PM
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I'm not familiar how this HDTV or Digital TV broadcasts are set up. Right now I've a I've a Philips 32PF7320A LCD TV which has a built in HDTV tuner. Since Denver is behind in full HDTV broadcasts OTA, I'm spending a ton of time trying to adjust the antenna to get HDTV. This is really frustrating for me and on top of it the wife is getted very annoyed how much time I'm spending on this new gadget of ours.

So, here are some simple questions and appreciate any feedback.

Since I've a built in HDTV tuner, if I subscribe to Dish Network or Direct TV will I get any HD channels without their HD receiver?

Same question as above but instead of Satelite what if I went with comcast? Do I get HDTV without their HD receiver?

BTW my TV has cablecard feature, does that mean I can skip the receiver box totally from comcast?

Thx
Ravi
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post #14243 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgedela View Post

Since I've a built in HDTV tuner, if I subscribe to Dish Network or Direct TV will I get any HD channels without their HD receiver?

No. You won't get anything (HD or otherwise) without their box.
Quote:
Same question as above but instead of Satelite what if I went with comcast? Do I get HDTV without their HD receiver?

BTW my TV has cablecard feature, does that mean I can skip the receiver box totally from comcast?

Yes, except you will still need to use their box if you want to get VOD/PPV programs, and to view their digital program guide.

Without anything else, your TV should be able to tune the local broadcast channels in HD from Comcast. If you want to get the non-broadcast channels (and have subscribed to a digital package) then you will need to call Comcast and get a CableCard to plug-in to your TV unless you want to use their box.

My cable provider is Netflix
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post #14244 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgedela View Post

I'm not familiar how this HDTV or Digital TV broadcasts are set up. Right now I've a I've a Philips 32PF7320A LCD TV which has a built in HDTV tuner. Since Denver is behind in full HDTV broadcasts OTA, I'm spending a ton of time trying to adjust the antenna to get HDTV. This is really frustrating for me and on top of it the wife is getted very annoyed how much time I'm spending on this new gadget of ours.

So, here are some simple questions and appreciate any feedback.

Since I've a built in HDTV tuner, if I subscribe to Dish Network or Direct TV will I get any HD channels without their HD receiver?

Same question as above but instead of Satelite what if I went with comcast? Do I get HDTV without their HD receiver?

BTW my TV has cablecard feature, does that mean I can skip the receiver box totally from comcast?
Thx
Ravi

A few questions for you.

Were do you live?

What type of home do you have? (House, Condo, Apt.)

What is the homes construction. (stucco, lathe and plaster etc.)

Now some advice.

In the Denver Metro area your indoor antenna will be very frustrating to use (only FOX and WB are transmitting a decent signal strength). Put an antenna in the attic or better yet, on the roof of your home. This can make HDTV a lot less annoying.

DirecTV and dish do not currently offer local channels in HD. They are to begin this year for us in Denver. So to get locals with a satellite receiver, you will need an attic/outdoor antenna connected to the sat receiver to receive your locals in HD.

Cable currently offers all locals that are broadcasting in HDTV (UPN and channel 12 do not broadcast any HDTV programs, but they offer a digital ATSC broadcast). If you have a cable card slot in your TV, then you can get an access card from your cable provider and forgo the box. You will not have access to on-demand services and you will need to call to order pay-per-view events.

One final option is to get a very basic cable package. In Denver, the local HDTV channels that comcast offers can be decoded by your TV's HDTV tuner without a cable box or cable card.

-Hope that this helps,
Matt

P.S. please visit this website http://www.hdtvcolorado.com and sign the petition to get our towers built so that others don't go through what you have gone through.
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post #14245 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 03:25 PM
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Did anyone else get the invite to the HDTV Colorado Open House at KUSA, for next Tuesday night?
Just curious........

Keith S.
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post #14246 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 03:27 PM
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No - I missed the KUSA tour several months ago, and would like to try to go. How'd you receive it?
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post #14247 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

Did anybody watch the Grammy's last night? It was absolutely awful! On the high energy music / live band segments, the pixelation was horrible. With all the fast action and strobe lights, it was a true torture test for encoding. And it failed miserably. Just another reason for using full bandwith and no sub-channels.

I really liked the animated open segment with the Gorillas.


I saw the issue with the Grammy's. Interestingly enough, I stopped on CD USA on D*, and the act performing was using strobes, and it was equally as bad as the Grammy's. When the strobes were off, the picture was fine again. I can see how strobes would be a serious test of any compression.
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post #14248 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gakon View Post

No - I missed the KUSA tour several months ago, and would like to try to go. How'd you receive it?

I left my email address at hdtvcolorado.com.
I don't know if this is by invitation only or not, contact them at info@hdtvcolorado.com to get more information.

Keith S.
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post #14249 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithsimp View Post

Did anyone else get the invite to the HDTV Colorado Open House at KUSA, for next Tuesday night?
Just curious........

Nope


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post #14250 of 17938 Old 02-10-2006, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithsimp View Post

Did anyone else get the invite to the HDTV Colorado Open House at KUSA, for next Tuesday night?
Just curious........

Yep

This is a personal invitation for you to take your support of free over-the-air digital television to the next level.

Please join the Lake Cedar Group of stations for

2006 HDTV Denver Open House

Wednesday, February 15th
7:00 to 8:30 pm

KUSA-TV
500 Speer Boulevard
Denver, CO 80203

Important Information, Refreshments and a Tour of 9News' HDTV facilities

Come help us bring free over-the-air HDTV to all of Front Range Colorado

Please RSVP to info@hdtvcolorado.com

Ron

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