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post #3871 of 23471 Old 11-30-2005, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalon74 View Post

Hi all. I'm a Buckeye now living in St. Louis. To watch my Brownies, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan so I can watch any available games in HD. Problem is that the Browns are almost never in HD. Besides the obvious (they aren't that good), does anyone have any info on why the Browns are so seldom in HD?

Mike

The basic reason is that most of the Browns games are on CBS, which only telecasts 3 games in HD. CBS telecasts the AFC, Fox has the NFC. When the Browns are on Fox, they are in HD.

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post #3872 of 23471 Old 12-01-2005, 12:09 AM
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And the good news, if not for now...

All indications are that all NFL games will be in HD in 2006-on, including all CBS games. So, this situation won't last beyond this year.
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post #3873 of 23471 Old 12-01-2005, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalon74 View Post

Hi all. I'm a Buckeye now living in St. Louis. To watch my Brownies, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan so I can watch any available games in HD. Problem is that the Browns are almost never in HD. Besides the obvious (they aren't that good), does anyone have any info on why the Browns are so seldom in HD?

Mike

It's because they are in the AFC which is carried on CBS. This season FOX has outdone CBS in the HD arena. There were only 2 Browns games on FOX this season. The only time the Browns will be on FOX is when the visiting team is in the NFC.
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post #3874 of 23471 Old 12-01-2005, 09:20 AM
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Yesterday the following e-mail was sent out by WVIZ. Looks like we're going to have to wait at least until summer for the North Royalton tower to go live.

-----------------------------------------

First of all I want to thank all of you for your continuing interest in WVIZ/PBS's digital channel. Unfortunately the issues at our main transmitting tower in North Royalton still are not resolved. I feel that resolution is very close and I hope we can begin our full power DTV transmission project by the first of the year. The project should take about six months to complete.

As you know we have been broadcasting a low power DTV signal from our studio location on Brookpark Road. (It's near the State Road exit on I-480 if your trying to point a directional antenna.) The low power signal makes it difficult to receive WVIZ-DT from a distance.

Thank you to those of you who pointed out that our web site had old information on it. Hopefully that will be updated very shortly after you read this message.

I ask for your understanding and patience as we struggle to get our full power DTV on the air.

Gary Bluhm
Director of Engineering


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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post #3875 of 23471 Old 12-01-2005, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

It's because they are in the AFC which is carried on CBS. This season FOX has outdone CBS in the HD arena. There were only 2 Browns games on FOX this season. The only time the Browns will be on FOX is when the visiting team is in the NFC.

What's the matter? You didn't think the two previous identical responses were clear enough for Michael P 2341 to understand?

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post #3876 of 23471 Old 12-01-2005, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

You and me both!

And I've got the same one in my sights...



And that really stunk, because I actually know someone who had a minor (off-screen) involvement in that movie.

(Rant mode...ON!)

Is there something wrong with WEWS to begin with? This afternoon, I had the pleasure, uh, of watching the Ohio State/Minnesota game on that station. Of course, the game wasn't in HD (and I wasn't expecting it to be), but the SD upconvert STUNK. It looked like they were upconverting a ghost-laden analog signal from out of town! I'll tell you how bad it was...WOIO/WUAB's SD upconvert was better. (And 19/43's is the worst in the market. By the way, in "true HD", it looks embarrassing.)

The OSU game this afternoon - let's just say the ghosting was so bad, you couldn't even READ THE NAMES OF THE TEAMS on the score bar up top. It was "OHIO ST. " ("I think, because it kinda looks like OHIO ST.") vs. a mess of letters that could very well be MINN, or MISS, or MIWW, or WIMM, or whatever. I honestly did not know which team the Buckeyes were playing until someone mentioned their name on the broadcast.

This is bad enough on my old SD/downconverted to 480i set upstairs. On the new HD setup I have, it was downright TV criminal.

Oddly enough, there appears to be no problem with WEWS' SD upconvert of NewsChannel 5 at 11 tonight, with no "ghosting" on the graphics. Maybe there's an ABC network related problem? I should check the Programming boards...

(Rant mode OFF!)



(re: WOAC-DT 47)

Yeah, I saw they have an STA out there, and I'm guessing I was picking that up with my amplified indoor antenna. The signal wasn't nearly powerful enough for 1000KW. When they do go to that, they'll likely blow my tuner out

But you're right, they're physically located, for us Akron types, away from the other stations. Parma is northwest of here, Copley (WEAO et al.) is west-southwest for me, and Brimfield is east-southeast for me. I should still get it well due to the close distance, even off the back end of the antenna.

BTW, from what I remember, they're either co-located or across Rt. 43 from WNIR/100.1's stick and WAOH-LP 29...the analog stick for 67 used to be up the hill from Belden Village Mall, but has probably moved since then.


No, they are located in Brimfield near Rt 43 an I-76.... northeast of the intersection. 500' tower.
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post #3877 of 23471 Old 12-01-2005, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevemkt View Post

No, they are located in Brimfield near Rt 43 an I-76.... northeast of the intersection. 500' tower.

Correct..as I noted, across from WNIR/WAOH-LP 29, which is on the northwest corner of that interchange.

Or do you mean that WOAC's analog 67 is up there now as well?
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post #3878 of 23471 Old 12-02-2005, 11:40 AM
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The WOAC analog has been there since mid-90's. Sorry, when you said WNIR/TV 29, I was thinking of their studio and radio transmitter site on RT 59 near Wal-Mart
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post #3879 of 23471 Old 12-02-2005, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevemkt View Post

The WOAC analog has been there since mid-90's. Sorry, when you said WNIR/TV 29, I was thinking of their studio and radio transmitter site on RT 59 near Wal-Mart

Ah, so WOAC moved it up there while I was living in California. I remember when they were up on the hill on Fulton Road behind Belden Village, and I could see their tower from the window at Sears...but the signal from that tower was snowy on the TVs inside the store.

Yeah, WNIR's stick used to be at their studio along Rt. 59. They moved it down to the Rt. 43/I-76 location a few years ago...I believe roughly at the same time they upgraded to their current power level. The sticks you see now at the Rt. 59 "Broadcast Park" studio site are solely for the mighty (cough, cough) WJMP/1520, that 1000 watt directional daytimer currently running Fox Sports Radio.

I'm pretty sure TV 29 has always been at 76/43.
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post #3880 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 10:48 AM
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Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?

It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.
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post #3881 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 10:51 AM
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It's either an ABC or WEWS problem. They just switched to SD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?

It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.

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post #3882 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jtscherne View Post

It's either an ABC or WEWS problem. They just switched to SD.

Nobody else in the thread in HDTV Programming was reporting the breakups I saw, though others had problems when WEWS did not.

And that SD upconvert is just as bad as it usually is during ABC's CFB. Ugh!
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post #3883 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?

It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.

I switched over to Youngstown's 33-1 on OTA and it is fine. Looks like a WEWS problem to me.
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post #3884 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hookbill View Post

What's the matter? You didn't think the two previous identical responses were clear enough for Michael P 2341 to understand?

Excuuuuse me! The original post (Kalan74) was on a previous page. I never saw yours or jtscherne's posts when I replied.

Besides, after reading the other 2 posts, neither of you mentioned when the Browns could be seen on FOX, the leader in HD sports.
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post #3885 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

And the good news, if not for now...

All indications are that all NFL games will be in HD in 2006-on, including all CBS games. So, this situation won't last beyond this year.

Where did you get this info? I really hope it's true!
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post #3886 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Excuuuuse me! The original post (Kalan74) was on a previous page. I never saw yours or jtscherne's posts when I replied.

Besides, after reading the other 2 posts, neither of you mentioned when the Browns could be seen on FOX, the leader in HD sports.

That's why you need to read on to see if a response is posted. Sorry if I offended you, we've all done it from time to time.

As to the second part of your statement it appears that The Browns are not going to be on FOX anymore this season. There is a schedule here for you to look at what's upcoming at FOX.

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post #3887 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalon74 View Post

Where did you get this info? I really hope it's true!

Ken H, a moderator here on AVS Forum who's really plugged into various TV-related sources, has stated this repeatedly in the NFL-related threads in the HDTV Programming section...all NFL games will be in HD in 2006. FOX is almost there already, and I presume that means CBS will come around as well. NBC will be HD for Sunday Night Football next season.
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post #3888 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 02:02 PM
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BTW, WEWS-DT finally fixed whatever was wrong, and went back to full HD at halftime of that game...and are in HD for the second game.

(Even WEWS-DT's upconverted SD was messed up earlier, during infomercials...and at one point they were even off the air.)

And CBS' Navy/Army is in HD on WOIO-DT, as well!
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post #3889 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 02:49 PM
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Receiving Canadian Digital Stations in Cleveland ?

Has anyone had any luck or grief receiving Canadian digital stations?
Why? The Winter Olympics are rapidly approaching!
US TV coverage is for the most part, Figure Skating, Hockey and any event a US competitor medals in. The Canadian coverage is much more in depth and even across all sports. In the past I tried to receive the Windsor analog station on channel 9 (or10) but channel 8 just blows it away. Hi-def is not a factor.

Kevin
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post #3890 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

And CBS' Navy/Army is in HD on WOIO-DT, as well!

For all the complaints about a lack of HD programming, we've come a long way, given that ALL Division I games on TV today are in HD, including ABC, CBS, and ESPN.
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post #3891 of 23471 Old 12-03-2005, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Graf View Post

Has anyone had any luck or grief receiving Canadian digital stations?

At this point, the only Canadian DT stations are in major markets like Toronto and Vancouver. As far as I know, the Windsor and London stations don't even have their DT sticks up yet.

The Windsor analog is 9...the London analog is 10. That may or may not play havoc with WOIO-DT 10 (or vice versa) in parts of Northern Ohio. I never got CFPL/10 here in Akron, so I don't know how bad the problem is.

I know you can get the Toronto DTs, especially the digital CBCer, in Buffalo/Niagara Falls, but that's about it.
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post #3892 of 23471 Old 12-04-2005, 05:48 PM
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Hey everyone! As far as HDTV I'm just now researching and shopping, but reading these forums has brought up a point, really a peeve.

As we all know, Akron is one of the largest cities nationwide to not have it's own DMA (designated market area). Newark, NJ is another city like this. They say it's because we're so close to Cleveland, and that makes SOME sense.

However, Dayton is almost as close to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland and they've got I think every major network affiliate except maybe WB or UPN. If we were to call it the Akron/Canton DMA it would be a good bit larger than Dayton's DMA.

Baltimore and Washington are as close together and each have their own. Yeah, they're both more similar in size but easily could have shared a Baltimore-Washington DMA if it had worked out that way.

Who agrees here? It does suck to turn on the news and get all this crap from Cleveland, nothing against Cleveland but news from Akron and Canton would be nice. Yeah, I know Pax 23 had one for a while but that was about it.

Does anyone know-

why
how
who decided

with regards to this? Was it basically by chance, or market forces at work or what?

Of course I've seen a nationwide map of the market areas and some of the ones out West are ridiculous-the entire state of Utah in SLC's, others that wrap entirely around another...
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post #3893 of 23471 Old 12-04-2005, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Does anyone know-

why
how
who decided

with regards to this? Was it basically by chance, or market forces at work or what?

I think about this one a lot.

Akron/Canton has enough TV stations to be its own separate market. Between 17, 23, 49, 55 and 67, there's enough for all of the "big four" commercial networks plus PBS.

Perhaps the biggest obstacle is rather simple. Since Cleveland's TV stations are all transmitting from the Parma antenna farm, that means they put a clear signal into Akron/Canton.

So, blame Lake Erie, for there are no "northern suburbs" of Cleveland (aside from way out east/west), and the TV sticks aren't 20 miles further north...
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post #3894 of 23471 Old 12-04-2005, 09:47 PM
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In a word - economics. Are there enough advetising dollars in the Akron/Canton area to warrent a seperate network affilliate? There used to be an ABC affilliate in Akron, why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon? Probably because there was too much competition from WEWS.

When WAKR first went on the air I heard that WEWS insisted that WAKR make their signal non-existant for Cuyahoga County. That is why to this day both ch 23 and 49 (the original WAKR channel for your youngsters too young to rember) are in the "shadow" of Richfield, which is 200' higher than most parts of Cuyahoga County. I could not get 23 & 49 clearly in the highest part of Seven Hills. I only now get them due south of the antenna farm in Southeastern Parma, since I got out of the "shadow". When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with a beaut of an analog signal. They should have done the same for 23. Maybe they will once it goes digital.

IIRC Youngstown used to be a "secondary market" within the Cleveland market (according to old TV guides I saw from the 60's) as Akron/Canton is today. The difference is today Youngstown is now a seperate DMA. I guess that extra distance matters.

Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.

Almost forgot about 55. WBNX identifies itself as "CLEVELAND's WB", it just happens to be licensed to Akron, just as WUAB is licensed to Lorain and WOIO is licensed to Shaker Hts. BTW: Ironically WBNX's stick is one of the NORTHERNMOST sticks here in the tennafarm, it's firmly planted in the Cleveland DMA.

If you want seperate network affilliates in Akron/Canton try tuning into the Youngstown affilliates and pray that Neilsen asks you to do a survey. That DMA needs all the eyeballs it can get, several years ago it lost Armstrong County PA (New Castle) to the Pittsburgh DMA despite being next door to Youngstown.
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post #3895 of 23471 Old 12-04-2005, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.

Oh, I know today's market conditions are different - but I'm just adding up all the market allocations that would be in the hypothetical Akron/Canton market.

BTW, WDLI/17 is a commercial license. TBN never changed the FCC designation:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=67893

And of course, both 17 and 67 used to be locally-programmed commercial stations, back in the day. In my "market from scratch" list, only 49 is a non-comm. 17, 23, 55 and 67 are commercial. Then, of course, there are LPTVers in both Akron and Canton - WAOH/29 in Akron and WIVM/52 in Canton - both operating as commercial independents.

No, as stated in BOTH directions, the problem is Akron/Canton's proximity to Cleveland. There'd certainly be enough for a low-top-100 TV market here, more than Youngstown/Warren at any rate, and at the time such a market could have been "created", Youngstown/Warren AND Akron/Canton were in better economic shape - especially Y-Town.

Simply put, if the Akron/Canton market *started* at, say, just south of downtown Canton, and the southern end was past Dover/New Philadelphia, it'd probably be its own standalone market. But with full-power Cleveland stations being closer to some of the Akron suburbs than they are to some of the Cleveland suburbs, it just would never have happened.

And without that proximity to Cleveland, stations like WAKR-to-WAKC/23 wouldn't have been competing with Cleveland for TV advertising dollars.
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post #3896 of 23471 Old 12-05-2005, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon?

The owners of WAKR/WAKC sold out to Valuevision
for around $6 million who sold to Paxson for around
$24 million...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the
transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with
a beaut of an analog signal.

Whitehead Media bought Canton's 67 and moved the
transmitter as close to Cleveland as technically
possible... It's now owned by Scripps (WEWS/Food/HGTV/DIY)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

They should have done the same for 23. Maybe
they will once it goes digital.

There's a channel 23 in East Lansing Michigan...
Read that WVPX-DT 59 has a Canadian coordination delay...
Is this true??

Ed...
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post #3897 of 23471 Old 12-05-2005, 06:47 AM
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I think part of the delay is that PAX doesn't want to build out on 59 (an out-of-core channel) then turn around and move to another in-core channel. They may be waiting for the second round filings to get in-core. I understand that they have a channel 59 antenna on the ground at their transmitter site (been there for several years).
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post #3898 of 23471 Old 12-05-2005, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

In a word - economics. Are there enough advetising dollars in the Akron/Canton area to warrent a seperate network affilliate? There used to be an ABC affilliate in Akron, why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon? Probably because there was too much competition from WEWS.

When WAKR first went on the air I heard that WEWS insisted that WAKR make their signal non-existant for Cuyahoga County. That is why to this day both ch 23 and 49 (the original WAKR channel for your youngsters too young to rember) are in the "shadow" of Richfield, which is 200' higher than most parts of Cuyahoga County. I could not get 23 & 49 clearly in the highest part of Seven Hills. I only now get them due south of the antenna farm in Southeastern Parma, since I got out of the "shadow". When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with a beaut of an analog signal. They should have done the same for 23. Maybe they will once it goes digital.

IIRC Youngstown used to be a "secondary market" within the Cleveland market (according to old TV guides I saw from the 60's) as Akron/Canton is today. The difference is today Youngstown is now a seperate DMA. I guess that extra distance matters.

Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.

Almost forgot about 55. WBNX identifies itself as "CLEVELAND's WB", it just happens to be licensed to Akron, just as WUAB is licensed to Lorain and WOIO is licensed to Shaker Hts. BTW: Ironically WBNX's stick is one of the NORTHERNMOST sticks here in the tennafarm, it's firmly planted in the Cleveland DMA.

If you want seperate network affilliates in Akron/Canton try tuning into the Youngstown affilliates and pray that Neilsen asks you to do a survey. That DMA needs all the eyeballs it can get, several years ago it lost Armstrong County PA (New Castle) to the Pittsburgh DMA despite being next door to Youngstown.

There would be enough dollars, I think, if Akron were located in Stark Co. and Canton in Tusc. That extra bit of distance would make the difference. Even had that been the case an Akron/Youngstown/Canton market may have arisen.

It's just that Akron and Canton consider themselves more linked as a community to one another than they do to Cleveland.
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post #3899 of 23471 Old 12-05-2005, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jtscherne View Post

For all the complaints about a lack of HD programming, we've come a long way, given that ALL Division I games on TV today are in HD, including ABC, CBS, and ESPN.

I don't believe that is a true statement. A recent example of a D1 game not in HD was the Ohio State/Michigan game on ABC. Tons of complaints on the forum about that. From what I saw over the course of the season, the majority were not in HD. CBS did one SEC game a week, the Notre Dame game on NBC was in HD, and ESPN usually did one a week. ABC actually did only a few games during the season from what I saw. I wish it were true. Maybe next year.
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post #3900 of 23471 Old 12-05-2005, 08:21 AM
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Oh, I know today's market conditions are different - but I'm just adding up all the market allocations that would be in the hypothetical Akron/Canton market.

BTW, WDLI/17 is a commercial license. TBN never changed the FCC designation:


And of course, both 17 and 67 used to be locally-programmed commercial stations, back in the day. In my "market from scratch" list, only 49 is a non-comm. 17, 23, 55 and 67 are commercial. Then, of course, there are LPTVers in both Akron and Canton - WAOH/29 in Akron and WIVM/52 in Canton - both operating as commercial independents.

No, as stated in BOTH directions, the problem is Akron/Canton's proximity to Cleveland. There'd certainly be enough for a low-top-100 TV market here, more than Youngstown/Warren at any rate, and at the time such a market could have been "created", Youngstown/Warren AND Akron/Canton were in better economic shape - especially Y-Town.

Simply put, if the Akron/Canton market *started* at, say, just south of downtown Canton, and the southern end was past Dover/New Philadelphia, it'd probably be its own standalone market. But with full-power Cleveland stations being closer to some of the Akron suburbs than they are to some of the Cleveland suburbs, it just would never have happened.

And without that proximity to Cleveland, stations like WAKR-to-WAKC/23 wouldn't have been competing with Cleveland for TV advertising dollars.

I find it interesting that Dover/New Philadelphia are counted in Cleveland's DMA when you can get a much better signal from Wheeling/Steubenville and even occasionally Columbus than Cleveland in many areas down there.
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