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post #5461 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 11:11 AM
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I found a video link on WKYC's website explaining the STO/WKYC HD hook-up with Jacob's Field. It's over a month old, but still kinda cool. Basically a self promotion of how great HD can be

http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=21750&bw=
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post #5462 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTD View Post

I found a video link on WKYC's website explaining the STO/WKYC HD hook-up with Jacob's Field. It's over a month old, but still kinda cool. Basically a self promotion of how great HD can be

http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=21750&bw=

Excellent link, HDTD. I found it not long after it was put up...I think they did the piece for the WKYC Indians opener, and I saw it on TV.

You'd probably know this, but...is the WKYC-based STO/Indians control room the only "off-stadium" main control room in MLB, or in any major league sports? I don't recall reading of this happening anywhere else...
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post #5463 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Excellent link, HDTD. I found it not long after it was put up...I think they did the piece for the WKYC Indians opener, and I saw it on TV.

You'd probably know this, but...is the WKYC-based STO/Indians control room the only "off-stadium" main control room in MLB, or in any major league sports? I don't recall reading of this happening anywhere else...


As far as pro's go, the only other folks to attempt this in HD (others have tried years ago in SD and failed) is Philadelphia. Comcast Philly has a control room at their arena and the new ballpark is connected also via fiber optic. The distance is about a half mile to a mile away.

More stadiums venus are being wired with fiber. But that's usually from the camera position, down to where the trucks park.

Inundated-I apologize, I thought someone may have posted it before, and if I was doubling up on the link (I'm too lazy to search).
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post #5464 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Last time I looked, it is.

Adelphia's online lineup shows 798/HDBON is "Broadcast HD", so it's not encrypted and it isn't in the HD Plus tier:



Discovery HD (776) is listed the same way, and is "in the clear" via QAM.

Here's what I'm getting in the clear:

* All local HD broadcast stations (WKYC, WEWS, WOIO, WJW, WVIZ)
* All local SD digital simulcasts of said stations (all of the above plus WUAB)
* 776/Discovery HD
* 798/HDBON
* 181/OHIO (WVIZ's "Ohio Channel" SD subchannel)
* 183/WTHR+ (WKYC's Weather Plus, also SD)

I think LOGO is in there as well (SD) as well as 300/BARK - no, not a dog channel, but the "BARKER" preview channel for PPV.

Each time Adelphia adds one of those SD digital channels, it has the proper cable box channel and name in the PSIP info.

I would assume BARK is there because it's just an in-house advertising channel, but I don't know why LOGO is on the list and other digital cable non-"plus" stations aren't.

Just getting in on this conversation now. I have Adelphia i nthe Cleveland suburbs, but subscribe to just basic cable - not digital. Are these stations being sent through on the basic cable too, or just the digital? I do have a QAM enabled HDTV, but haven't yet tried to hook it up and scan for these.
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post #5465 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 04:38 PM
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I wrote the Channel 3's engineering staff to point out (as others have) that it's very annoying to watch 4:3 material on their HDTV channel that has been stretched by WKYC to fill a 16:9 image. I received a response from Rex Rickly, Director of Technology & Operations WKYC-TV, who wrote:

> The reason we stretch
> 4x3 content when it is upconverted to 1080i, is to address the
> concerns of viewers that don't want to see black bars on the sides of
> their 16x9 display. It is also worth noting that some of the NBC HDTV
> shows are provided to us in letterbox format for analog transmission,
> and we get complaints about that problem as well. Obviously these
> policies are not liked by all of our viewers, but this is a
> case where we can't please everyone.

I responded that none of the other local channels did this with upconverted analog material on their HD channels, which meant that the viewer with a 16:9 set had the option on all the other channels to stretch the image, but that WKYC was taking away that choice. Rex responded concerning the HD-stretching issue: "We are reconsidering this policy, and I expect it to change in the near future. "

Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his). This forum's software won't let me post email addresses yet, so go to the WKYC website and click on the "Contact WKYC" link at the bottom of the page, then click on the "questions about our shows" and express your opinion!

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post #5466 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 06:23 PM
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I noticed that PBS 45&49 has reconfigured their digital transmission. They have dropped the "Information & Education" subchannel (which was 45-4 and 49-4) and moved the Ohio Channel to 45-3 and 49-3. They are only doing three subchannels now. They have also updated their website to reflect the new configuration, leading me to believe that the change is permanent (or at least not short-term).

I think there also used to be mention on the website that the PBS HD channel was on from 6 PM to midnight on 45-1 and 49-1 (which has not been the case for quite awhile). They no longer mention this on the website. I hope they have not given up on HD at PBS 45&49.
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post #5467 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTD View Post

As far as pro's go, the only other folks to attempt this in HD (others have tried years ago in SD and failed) is Philadelphia. Comcast Philly has a control room at their arena and the new ballpark is connected also via fiber optic. The distance is about a half mile to a mile away.

But this situation would presumably be even more unique, with the control room for the game at WKYC itself. It's still fascinating to me, and though there has been a glitch or two, it's mostly gone smoothly.

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Originally Posted by HDTD View Post

Inundated-I apologize, I thought someone may have posted it before, and if I was doubling up on the link (I'm too lazy to search).

Oh, no problem, I can't even remember if I ended up posting it here! I know I saw it during the Indians opening day pregame on TV.
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post #5468 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by silverballmania View Post

Just getting in on this conversation now. I have Adelphia i nthe Cleveland suburbs, but subscribe to just basic cable - not digital. Are these stations being sent through on the basic cable too, or just the digital? I do have a QAM enabled HDTV, but haven't yet tried to hook it up and scan for these.

Yes, the "open" QAM channels are not at all tied to Adelphia's digital cable. I get them down here on my computer with the Fusion USB HDTV box connected to a standard cable.

You should have no problem picking them up on your QAM-enabled set. You won't get, for example, stuff that REQUIRES the box (ESPNHD, HDNet, etc.), but you will get what I listed above.

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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his).

I've written to all the stations about this issue, including WEWS when they were doing that horrid 14:9 pseudo-stretch. I know the Ohio Media Watch blog has touched on this as well.

BTW, sometime not too long from now, WKYC's local newscasts will be in HD...so you'll see less of the stretch anyway. An article quoted here said it could have happened as early as April, but I think they're waiting till the HD Indians/STO stuff is more routine before doing it.
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post #5469 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

But this situation would presumably be even more unique, with the control room for the game at WKYC itself. It's still fascinating to me, and though there has been a glitch or two, it's mostly gone smoothly.

I am completely amazed at the whole network, and the rare technical flaws they've had. They not only outfitted Jacob's Field with fiber, but spec'd out an entire HD control room and built it from the ground up...then had the electric co tear up E9th St and install fiber, and to do all that by opening day (in less than four months) is amazing. (Do I hear technical acheivement Emmy?) From what I've seen very little of the technical errors have been related directly to how quickly they built the studio. It's just unbelievable, and for them to pull it off in Cleveland is amazing. This is something you'd expect out of NYC or Philly.

For a television production *truck* to be built in that time frame is amazing. And we're talking expando 53' trailers where companies build maybe a dozen a year, and are constantly updating and tweaking designs, that takes almost six months on average. Cheaper HD trucks have been rolled out in 90 days, but they've needed some fixes after that.

To me, if this thing is successful in Cleveland, a kind of mid-market as far as pro sports TV cities go you'll begin to see a trend with sports teams, wiring stadiums and starting their own networks.

I've always thought as technology caught up, that you may have stadiums that are wired like this, and all the control rooms are done just like WKYC. Where you'll only travel announcers. All of the production crew could be in one place, and they just connect to whatever particular stadium your home team is visiting.
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post #5470 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his). This forum's software won't let me post email addresses yet, so go to the WKYC website and click on the "Contact WKYC" link at the bottom of the page, then click on the "questions about our shows" and express your opinion!

Would writing the station's General Manager help?
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post #5471 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBlackKnight View Post

I noticed that PBS 45&49 has reconfigured their digital transmission. They have dropped the "Information & Education" subchannel (which was 45-4 and 49-4) and moved the Ohio Channel to 45-3 and 49-3. They are only doing three subchannels now. They have also updated their website to reflect the new configuration, leading me to believe that the change is permanent (or at least not short-term).

I think there also used to be mention on the website that the PBS HD channel was on from 6 PM to midnight on 45-1 and 49-1 (which has not been the case for quite awhile). They no longer mention this on the website. I hope they have not given up on HD at PBS 45&49.

I hope they haven't given up either! I loved their HD shows, and I'm someone that NEVER watched PBS before, even when I worked at a station in school. I really wish they took into consideration that there are a big chunk of HD viewers that watch programs they normally would not watch just because they're in HD.

I would have never watched a program about lava on Discovery Channel prior to HD. Forget Dale Chihuly's glass blowing on PBS if that were SD.

We really need 45/49 to do us a true public service and provide their PBS network programs in full HD.
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post #5472 of 23551 Old 05-15-2006, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTD View Post

To me, if this thing is successful in Cleveland, a kind of mid-market as far as pro sports TV cities go you'll begin to see a trend with sports teams, wiring stadiums and starting their own networks.

The biggest way STO avoided a pitfall here is hooking up with an existing broadcaster, WKYC, and an existing modern broadcast facility, the "Digital Broadcast Center" at 13th and Lakeside.

That reduced a lot of what they had to do. They basically had to install the HD cameras at Jacobs Field and the fiber optic link back to WKYC, and then outfit the HD control room there. I'm not sure, but I believe that control room may have already either been in place, or just needed some retrofitting for STO's purposes...mostly, I assume, making it HD ready.

Since WKYC needs it anyway for its 20 games, and can use it as a backup during STO's off hours, it was a no brainer. (Of course, at some point in the next year or so, STO will go 24 hours, but I don't know if it'll be out of that room or elsewhere.)
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post #5473 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Yes, the "open" QAM channels are not at all tied to Adelphia's digital cable. I get them down here on my computer with the Fusion USB HDTV box connected to a standard cable.

You should have no problem picking them up on your QAM-enabled set. You won't get, for example, stuff that REQUIRES the box (ESPNHD, HDNet, etc.), but you will get what I listed above.

Thanks - I gave it a try and picked up the SD channels only. The HD channels were very pixelated. I was told a couple years back that the wiring in my house is horrendous (too many splitters and an amplifier). I think the bad reception has to do with that. I'm probably due for a complete re-wire of my house if I want this to work right! Thanks for your help!
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post #5474 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 04:01 AM
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did anyone have a problem with woio last night? I had a complete 0 for signal (every other channel was at normal readings) not a biggie since i Have youngstown cbs, just wondering if any of you saw anything, thanks!
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post #5475 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTD View Post

We really need 45/49 to do us a true public service and provide their PBS network programs in full HD.

As the title above indicates, we, too, believe in HD. I also believe in being honest. Our first generation digital encoding equipment is showing its age. The unit has limitations and those, combined with our incompatible automation system interface, limit what the station can deliver. That's why the Information & Education Channel (CPB/Annenberg) has temporarily be discontinued. That is also why, after 6 months of effort, we are TEMPORARILY de-listing our HD service. That is also why we've made considerable changes to our 2am-5 am primary channel service.
We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. We are now spending considerable time reviewing replacement mux and encoding equipment. But we are not abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.
When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.

Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations
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post #5476 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by PBS4549 View Post

But we are not abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.
When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.

Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations


Hi Don,
I'm pleased to hear about your interest in HD and appreciate the update. Many of us will be watching.

thx,
Tom

"4k UHD makes today a great time to be alive"
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post #5477 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

The biggest way STO avoided a pitfall here is hooking up with an existing broadcaster, WKYC, and an existing modern broadcast facility, the "Digital Broadcast Center" at 13th and Lakeside.

That reduced a lot of what they had to do. They basically had to install the HD cameras at Jacobs Field and the fiber optic link back to WKYC, and then outfit the HD control room there. I'm not sure, but I believe that control room may have already either been in place, or just needed some retrofitting for STO's purposes...mostly, I assume, making it HD ready.

Since WKYC needs it anyway for its 20 games, and can use it as a backup during STO's off hours, it was a no brainer. (Of course, at some point in the next year or so, STO will go 24 hours, but I don't know if it'll be out of that room or elsewhere.)

The biggest success for STO being a team owned network was going in with Time Warner from the get-go. Having them at the beginning helps tremendously. That's where Victory Network in Minneapolis failed for the Twins. They were on two cable systems with less than 40,000 homes. Try selling that to advertisers. The Yankees YES Network and Sports NY the new Mets network had some struggle with cable systems at first, but they're big enough franchises to garner demand by subscribers to the cable systems.

WKYC certainly helped though, with the station engineering, sales and production staff plus a shell for a new control room. WKYC planned for a second control room, and second studio when they built the new facility. They had the conduit ready for all the wiring necessary. Who knows if they ever planned on having a second and third network outside of WKYC, but of any station or cable network in town, they were set to pull it off successfully.

They still had to completey outfit the facility with HD equipment. But their shell for a control room took away any big delays for construction. They had tremendous amounts of wiring of new equipment. So it wasn't completely ready to move in, but it certainly helped.
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post #5478 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 10:08 AM
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We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations

People in New Orleans are expecting some federal funds too. I wouldn't hold your breath with the current management.

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post #5479 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 12:36 PM
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Anybody else notice the weather alert and it's affect on the HD picture during the game?

Basically the picture whent from true HD to stretch-o-vision to show the weather alert crawl and radar PIP image. During that time the scoreboard size enlarged.

Otherwise it went very smooth. I did not hear the usual audio glitch (and time warp) that I hear on other stations when the switch is made from HD to SD (or visa-varsa). I can't speak for DD5.1 audio, only the standard stereo analog output from my 921.
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post #5480 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 02:06 PM
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Anybody else notice the weather alert and it's affect on the HD picture during the game?

Basically the picture whent from true HD to stretch-o-vision to show the weather alert crawl and radar PIP image. During that time the scoreboard size enlarged.

Otherwise it went very smooth. I did not hear the usual audio glitch (and time warp) that I hear on other stations when the switch is made from HD to SD (or visa-varsa). I can't speak for DD5.1 audio, only the standard stereo analog output from my 921.

Yes I saw it. As far as the audio goes, I've had to "help" it a bit so it comes out the rear speakers. I have a setting I can put my stereo on that will enhance even 5.1.

As far as the weather things goes, very annoying but it happens on other stations too only they don't do the stretch o vision, they just go to standard format.

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post #5481 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 03:11 PM
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The biggest success for STO being a team owned network was going in with Time Warner from the get-go. Having them at the beginning helps tremendously. That's where Victory Network in Minneapolis failed for the Twins. They were on two cable systems with less than 40,000 homes. Try selling that to advertisers.

Oh, definitely, that's a key piece of the puzzle - distribution. Even if they signed up no other cable system but Time Warner, it would have given them 90 percent of the local cable homes - with Adelphia/Comcast coming into the fold this summer. They still needed the other pieces, and the satellite services, but they'd never have been behind the same 8 ball Victory Sports was behind in Minnesota.
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post #5482 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 03:14 PM
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okay two questions

#1 is woio out for everyone? I am getting a 0 signal still

#2 if their are any engineers for stations that check in, or if any of you contact them on a regular basis.....Is Dish network in contact with the engineers about broadcasting cleveland locals, it is my understanding that they have to talk to the engineers first, kinda gives me a timeline of when cleveland HDlocals will be put up in the sat...thanks guys! and gals@
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post #5483 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 03:15 PM
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#2 if their are any engineers for stations that check in, or if any of you contact them on a regular basis.....Is Dish network in contact with the engineers about broadcasting cleveland locals, it is my understanding that they have to talk to the engineers first, kinda gives me a timeline of when cleveland HDlocals will be put up in the sat...thanks guys! and gals@

From what I've been reading in the other local DBS threads, Dish Network is picking up local HD/DT channels over air, and is not receiving a fiber optic feed for them. As such, the engineering folks aren't involved...only the management to clear the station being carried.
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post #5484 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 03:20 PM
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From what I've been reading in the other local DBS threads, Dish Network is picking up local HD/DT channels over air, and is not receiving a fiber optic feed for them. As such, the engineering folks aren't involved...only the management to clear the station being carried.

I thought I read somewhere that they had to let the engineer know, oh well I will wait paitently! thanks inundated.
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post #5485 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 03:47 PM
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I thought I read somewhere that they had to let the engineer know, oh well I will wait paitently! thanks inundated.

I THINK DirecTV may be getting the fiber optic feeds for some of their HD LIL markets, but I have been reading in the Sacramento thread - in messages from KOVR "CBS 13" engineer Bob Hess - that Dish Network will just get them via OTA reception. No need to notify the engineer, as the signal's out there for anyone to pick up and the engineer doesn't need to do anything.

Bob explains it in this message on the Sacramento OTA thread.

I believe Adelphia/Cleveland gets all of its local HD stations via OTA pickup. In fact, I seem to remember that they even pick up puny-power WVIZ/25 (DT 26) via OTA out of their downtown Cleveland facility...with much better antennas and equipment than we have, of course.
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post #5486 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 10:22 PM
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News article of local interest....concerns local "Shop At Home" channel....

Scripps shuts Shop At Home after failed sale

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...C6%7D&keyword=

Also see article on this site:

http://www.ohiomedia.blogspot.com/
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post #5487 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Oh, definitely, that's a key piece of the puzzle - distribution. Even if they signed up no other cable system but Time Warner, it would have given them 90 percent of the local cable homes - with Adelphia/Comcast coming into the fold this summer. They still needed the other pieces, and the satellite services, but they'd never have been behind the same 8 ball Victory Sports was behind in Minnesota.

It's funny after you asked about other cities doing a similar fiber link with a station, I heard serious talk about FSN Pittsburgh following STO's lead by wiring PNC Park and HD fibering their signal back to FSN Pittsburgh's Allegheny Center studios. Bypassing a truck, and building an HD control room.
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post #5488 of 23551 Old 05-16-2006, 11:31 PM
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As the title above indicates, we, too, believe in HD. I also believe in being honest. Our first generation digital encoding equipment is showing its age. The unit has limitations and those, combined with our incompatible automation system interface, limit what the station can deliver. That's why the Information & Education Channel (CPB/Annenberg) has temporarily be discontinued. That is also why, after 6 months of effort, we are TEMPORARILY de-listing our HD service. That is also why we've made considerable changes to our 2am-5 am primary channel service.
We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. We are now spending considerable time reviewing replacement mux and encoding equipment. But we are not abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.
When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.

Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations

Thanks for the reply Don. Sounds typical of PBS equipment woes. Buy it just to do the job at first, and end up paying more in the end to fix it. Doesn't matter what the equipment is, it's PBS' buying "strategery," for everything. WVIZ is going through the same disaster.
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post #5489 of 23551 Old 05-17-2006, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

News article of local interest....concerns local "Shop At Home" channel....

Scripps shuts Shop At Home after failed sale

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...C6%7D&keyword=

Also see article on this site:

http://www.ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

It would be nice to see the WIVM (52) folks pick up this channel. A return to the old days of WOAC - low budget, local programming with plenty of high school football and basketball. Is Scott Davis still around? Proably won't happen, though.

Maybe the CAT folks (low power 29/35) would pick it up - although I can't imagine Kaiser Bill springing for a full power TV station. The WOAC transmitter is located right next to the Kaiser's broadcast "empire", though. And it would put OSU Buckeye basketball back on a full power affiliate in this market.

Honestly, I don't know who would be interested and have the wherewithall to buy this station. I'm just glad to be getting rid of the shopping channel. What a waste of spectrum! I think I'd rather watch a test pattern.
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post #5490 of 23551 Old 05-17-2006, 08:01 AM
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Speaking of PBS and WVIZ ... any news on the progress of their new antenna? Or is it also in governmental grant hell?
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