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post #661 of 14635 Old 06-10-2004, 01:32 PM
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Here are my results from AntennaWeb... I am just now installing my set up and will be purchasing an OTA receiver this weekend.

My question... Can I get away w/ indoor antenna w/ these results? Thanks in advance!!


* yellow - uhf WXIX-DT 19.1 FOX Newport KY 31° 5.7 29
* yellow - uhf WLWT-DT 5.1 NBC Cincinnati OH 41° 6.5 35
* yellow - uhf WKRC-DT 12.1 CBS Cincinnati OH 51° 6.8 31
* yellow - vhf WCPO-DT 9.1 ABC Cincinnati OH 49° 7.4 10
* yellow - uhf WCVN-DT 54.1 PBS Covington KY 109° 4.9 24
* green - uhf WSTR-DT 64.1 WB CINCINNATI OH 25° 11.2 33
* red - uhf WCET-DT 48.1 PBS Cincinnati OH 41° 6.5 34
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post #662 of 14635 Old 06-10-2004, 01:35 PM
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Probably, with the exception of WSTR, which operates on much lower power, if memory serves. You might have to move your Silver Sensor, rabbit ears or whatever you go with to pick up each station. Of course, an outdoor antenna is always better . Just keep receipts so you can return anything that doesn't work. A lot depends on where you are. It's easier if you're not down in a valley.

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post #663 of 14635 Old 06-10-2004, 06:20 PM
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Folks - apologies if this has been hased and I missed the thread. But, have seen in another thread where FOX is upgrading their stations to HD and curious if anyone here is aware if a) FOX Cincinnati has plans b) expected timeframe?

TIA -

UN65HU8550FXZA Golf/TS01
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post #664 of 14635 Old 06-10-2004, 08:04 PM
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Yes, they have plans. But they were (and still are) in the midst of a control room upgrade when the splicer team was in Dayton. We're speculating that's why they've been passed over.

You should write them, if you haven't, and tell them you're looking forward to HD in the fall. Don't mention AVS. Just do it. Use the feedback form and Choose the General Manager as the recipient. Judging from how long they've stayed in Weirdscreen mode, lately, I'm still the only one who calls.

Doc

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post #665 of 14635 Old 06-11-2004, 07:50 AM
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Doc
You're not the only one who calls! WXIX people are stupid, so I now watch Dayton because it is always in widescreen.

Alex
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post #666 of 14635 Old 06-11-2004, 07:57 AM
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Dogg..

Wouldn't call them stupid. They usually DO fix it when I call. But, to them, there are only 3 or 4 people watching, so it's not worth putting a DT monitor in the control room or somewhere it can be seen. Hopefully, the control room remodel will include a monitor. If it doesn't, I'll go BUY them one . I do wish I could lock on to 30-1, but I have to shoot right through 19's tower to do that. And with them on 29, I don't see it happening unless they start pumpin' gigawatts!

Doc

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post #667 of 14635 Old 06-12-2004, 08:14 PM
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Got a reply from the wxix chief engineer saying they will be widscreen HDTV in September and they expect to be on TW in digital then also.
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post #668 of 14635 Old 06-13-2004, 12:29 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by rcweiss
Got a reply from the wxix chief engineer saying they will be widscreen HDTV in September and they expect to be on TW in digital then also.


Woo hoo!!! Just in time for the NFL schedule to begin...let's hope they make both of those happen
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post #669 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 08:17 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by CincySaint
Woo hoo!!! Just in time for the NFL schedule to begin...let's hope they make both of those happen

I'll second that "Woo hoo!!!" - great news, and thanks the the feedback folks -

UN65HU8550FXZA Golf/TS01
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post #670 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 08:27 AM
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Just an update.

I decided to order the HD UPgrade from DirecTV. It includes the installation of new satellite and an OTA antenna.

Has anyone else in the area gone this route? If so, are you happy with the results and equipment? They are scheduled to come out this Friday.

Thanks!
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post #671 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 08:43 AM
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jspicoli,

I've had Direct TV HD for a few years now, with a Hughes E86 receiver. Its nice. Just make sure the installer does a clean job in terms of wiring from the dish to your house. Look over their wiring work and insist that sufficient brackets are used so as not to have ugly wires hanging around. Also plan ahead now for any additional receivers you might have or want in other rooms. You might need to sweet talk the installer or pay a bit extra for wiring other rooms. My only big drawback to all this is the high cost if you want to record in HD. There is a DirectTIVO (more details in this thread), but to me it costs too much right now. DTV actually just severed their relationship with TIVO so they will be doing PVR themselves soon. I'm actually considering dropping DTV for Insight's HD PVR, the only thing preventing me from doing that is NFL Sunday Ticket. Its a dilemma. And keep in mind the small print, you are committing to another year when you get the HD system. If you've been a long-time subscriber (2+ years) you can often talk to a rep (or a rep's manager) to get that waived.
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post #672 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 08:46 AM
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...so it doesn't come with any HD box, then? I didn't know they were offering any HD equipment at all, yet? The dish, ant. & install is a good deal I guess but not a whole lot of give-away relative to other promos...i.e. I got some $350 credit off of my HDTivo box but already had the rest of the equipment in place...which Blue Grass put in a while ago (sat c kit & 3rd lnb) & I hope you get better installers than I did...
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post #673 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 08:59 AM
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ChrisDow.... Yes.. It comes w/ the HD Receiver which also supports OTA signals.... Sorry left that one out...
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post #674 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 11:20 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ItzMe

the only thing preventing me from doing that is NFL Sunday Ticket.

You can do both....

I have DTV with just Sunday Ticket and TWC for HD, etc.
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post #675 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 11:24 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by CincySaint
You can do both....

I have DTV with just Sunday Ticket and TWC for HD, etc.

Other threads indicate that D* doesn't do Sunday Ticket a la carte, anymore. New subs have to have a minimum of Total Choice. Those of us who have had it all along are grandfathered, it appears.

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post #676 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 11:40 AM
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Hmm, Sunday Ticket a la carte would've been great! Darn!
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post #677 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 01:25 PM
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FYI: WKRC-DT is trying out a 16:9 stretch during 4:3 programming. Live with it a while, then feel free to post your thoughts. I usually stretch 4:3, anyway to avoid burnout, so I lean toward the "like it" side. Upconverters will be getting some upgrades, soon, too. I'll do my best to keep you posted.

Doc

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post #678 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry Doc, I don't have to wait -- I can tell you what I think right now.

I don't like the stretch they are doing, in fact I can't stand it. It's Weirdscreen to me, just a little different version. I'll watch the analog instead of that during non-HD programming.

I think correct aspect ratio should ALLWAYS be sent by the station involved at ALL TIMES -- with an exception given the circumstances involved where WRGT-DT+Fox Widescreen is concerned presently as they have it "set" for proper AR for Fox/Fox WS on 30-1, with 30-2 SD subchannel set properly for "normal" 4x3 video(same video as the analog station is using).

If the user wants to stretch, or crop/zoom, then they can do so(assuming they have the appropriate equipment, many receivers will allow stretch, or "crop/zoom" if output at 480i). I have one display(an integrated set) that I can't do ANYTHING at all if a 16x9 ATSC format is sent, and I watch 4x3 from WKRC-DT on it AS 4x3, but there is no way I'm watching WKRC-DT during Non-HD programming the way 4x3 video is being sent presently.

I wouldn't mind grey bars, though. Another thing that would work would be if they setup a SD subchannel using 480i/p 4x3 ATSC format as long as it didn't effect HD quality(I.e. increase compression artifacts), and I don't see how it wouldn't ..... If If was "crop/zoom" to 16x9, I could stand it a little more(but not really), perhaps more than having "fat wide people" as is the case presently -- But I still wouldn't like it ....

Update: Really -- I think the BEST way to handle it would be like KET/WCVN-DT does on KET4 -- Switch ATSC formats to match the AR of the source programming -- i.e. in their case .. They use 4x3 480i for CPB/Annenburg channel, and 720p(16x9 of course) for PBS HD channel. Of course, I don't know of anywhere else that does that besides KET, and it would seem that would also get a little "complicated" during local commercial breaks, although I wouldn't think it would be necessary to switch to 480i 4x3 during network ad breaks ..

Jeff
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post #679 of 14635 Old 06-14-2004, 05:16 PM
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I'd have to concur with Jeff; the braodcaster should send an unaltered picture. I swapped Mits models just so I could stretch HD material; but that doesn't stop me from occassionally watching 4:3 with black bars. It would be nice to get grey bars, but I'm sure others would complain. There are times when I zoom instead of stretch as well, especially during sports -- a stretched source would kill that.

I wouldn't encourage a sub-channel to solve this; one of them was doing this earlier and it affected their HD.
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post #680 of 14635 Old 06-15-2004, 08:23 AM
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I think the stretch is much better than creating a subchannel, or downgrading to 720p and creating the additional channel. I can't stretch out a 1080I or 720p signal, but I do like black bars over the stretch. We can't have another channel that sucks up bandwidth. If the stretch is to stay, it would be OK, it looks good.

Alex
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post #681 of 14635 Old 06-15-2004, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
I do like black bars over the stretch.

So do I. So it seems we are actually in agreement here. I have never WATCHED and I will NEVER watch distorted pictures, even though I can press a button on my remote+do it(stretch or crop/zoom) when a SD NTSC signal, or a 4x3 ATSC screen format is sent, and on one setup here(but not the other) I can downconvert 1080i/720p to 480i and stretch/squeeze or "crop/zoom as well.

It is one thing if the video is being sent distorted on a temporary basis because of a "technical issue" -- but quite another to actually do it ON PURPOSE just to fill a 16x9 screen. That is insane IMO. If you are concerned about uneven phospor wear because you are using a 16x9 display and viewing a lot of 4x3 material on it, then find a way to stretch or crop/zoom it yourself, or maybe you should have purchased a 4x3 display+a STB that will let you "center cut" the 4x3 out of a 16x9 ATSC format so the 4x3 will fill the screen(I believe many, if not most STB's will let you do this if output at 480i/p).

Crop/zooming 4x3 to 16x9 to keep proper W:H ratio is another matter -- I don't think it is acceptable for stations to send video this way, but personally, If I'm not "seriously" watching something, I'll Crop/zoom SOME stuff, but If I'm "seriously" watching something, it has to be 4x3 if 4x3 is the programming's aspect ratio.

Quote:


Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
We can't have another channel that sucks up bandwidth. If the stretch is to stay, it would be OK, it looks good.

You've GOT to be kidding. I can't imagine how anyone could think distorted pics look "good". There is NO WAY it looks good, as it is just plain WRONG. The only way it looks good is if I "squeeze it" to proper aspect ratio, which I CAN do with ONE(but not the other) of my STB's here(If I downconvert to 480i), along with squeezing in grey bars on the sides w/my display -- It is very inconvient to do that though, and it is easier just to watch the analog channel during non-HD programming. They do have some ways to do non-linear stretches which work a little better -- but I wouldn't put up with those either - 4x3 programming is 4x3, and it should be sent as 4x3 and that is all there is to it.

And, I think you misunderstand. I'm not advocating a SD subchannel -- as, in any event, among other things it would be a WASTE of bandwidth to run the SAME programming on it. I was merely bringing up things which would (IMO) be BETTER than sending distorted pics. As I noted before, (IMO) the BEST solution IMO would be if stations would switch ATSC formats to match the source programming(as KET does on KET4) -- The next best solution is what WKRC HAD been doing(ever since I've been watching them in 2001) up until yesterday - Black(or grey) bars on the sides of 4x3 programming sent in its proper aspect ratio.

Jeff
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post #682 of 14635 Old 06-15-2004, 11:39 AM
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Did you get the $99 deal from Directv?

thanks

jim

Quote:


Originally posted by jspicoli
Just an update.

I decided to order the HD UPgrade from DirecTV. It includes the installation of new satellite and an OTA antenna.

Has anyone else in the area gone this route? If so, are you happy with the results and equipment? They are scheduled to come out this Friday.

Thanks!

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post #683 of 14635 Old 06-15-2004, 12:09 PM
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Jim,

They wouldn't give me the $99 deal because it had expired a while back. But they did give me $150 credit off the current $349 deal. I went ahead and paid $50 more to let them install the OTA at the same time. So, I will get the new Satellite, HD Reciever, OTA Antenna installed for $249 + tax, etc... I hope the antenna is outside getting all the channels fine. I hope he doesn't just hook up rabbit ears to the set.. ;-)
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post #684 of 14635 Old 06-15-2004, 05:06 PM
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The best thing for WKRC-DT is to go back to the regular 4x3 aspect ratio. Doc thanks for showing us how the stretch looks, but it seems like most of us like the 4x3. There is a disagreement in the second option, between stretch or creating another channel. Just let us know how much longer the stretch is going to last.

Alex
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post #685 of 14635 Old 06-15-2004, 05:28 PM
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Dogg..

Soon as I find out, I'll let you know. Personally, I'm more interested in the upconverter upgrades. I have my fingers crossed that gray bars are part of that upgrade. Although, the ad man in me would rather see corporate logos in the space. Some $$ for the TV station for screen space that's just going to be black or gray otherwise. .

Dpc

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post #686 of 14635 Old 06-15-2004, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps some good - or at least "hopeful" news : I don't know if WSTR-DT will end up being one of the"stragglers" as mentioned -- but, looks like Sinclair(WSTR is Sinclair O&O) plans to have almost all of its stations (except UPN affiliates) doing HD by September --See first portion of following post :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...20#post3933320

Jeff
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post #687 of 14635 Old 06-16-2004, 11:04 AM
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I can see a difference since the upconverter has been installed. It looks clear and seems to help out the non-widescreen material very well. Is 5.1 in the future at WKRC? Has anyone heard if WCPO is going to have 5.1 like they said any time soon? WSTR would be great if it could go HD by fall, Smallville is an awesome show! Also, any news on the install at WXIX and the tower work to add WPTO soon?

Alex
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post #688 of 14635 Old 06-16-2004, 11:12 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
The best thing for WKRC-DT is to go back to the regular 4x3 aspect ratio. Doc thanks for showing us how the stretch looks, but it seems like most of us like the 4x3. There is a disagreement in the second option, between stretch or creating another channel. Just let us know how much longer the stretch is going to last.

For now the stretch is over. There has been a good bit of discussion on it here and for now it will no longer be stretched. I don't think creating another channel will be considered since the higher bandwidth will allow for better picture quality and that it seems is the biggest concern. Thanks for everyone's input and comments.

Has anyone else noticed how TNT-HD is doing there HD upconverts? It is stretched from the middle outwards. So the middle has no distortion and it gets more distorted on the ends. I don't mind the way they do it personally but alot of people don't appear to like it. ESPN-HD also did they same in the past and people complained so much they stopped doing it. Looks worse on sports broadcasts though.

NOTE: On this forum, my thoughts, opinions, and suggestions are my own and do not represent those of the staff, management, or ownership of my employer.
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post #689 of 14635 Old 06-16-2004, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Dogg,

I don't think we have anything new that hasn't already been reported, but Doc/WH Weasel might know more.

I haven't seen WPTO-DT on air as of yet --- One of their people reported last week on Dayton Thread that they had planned on being up last weekend, so I assume they've run into some add'l difficulties.


I'm just hoping either WSTR-DT or WBDT-DT(WB Dayton) Will have WB HD sometime "soon", especially as WB is going to send LOTR trilogy in HD over the next few years, starting with FOTR This fall(around Thanksgiving if I recall correctly). I do occasionally pull in WWHO-DT (Near Circleville - Just South of Columbus), which has BOTH WB+UPN HD ---Just Enough to have seen a bit of "Everwood" in HD on one occasion last year, and a bit of "Gilmore Girls" in HD last night and one of the HDone movies which WKRC-DT missed ... I'm almost ready to put up a 250 Foot tower so I can get them all the time

Jeff
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post #690 of 14635 Old 06-16-2004, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel
For now the stretch is over. There has been a good bit of discussion on it here and for now it will no longer be stretched. I don't think creating another channel will be considered since the higher bandwidth will allow for better picture quality and that it seems is the biggest concern.

All great news Thanks for listening. I hope I wasn't too "colorful" with my comments, and I certianly didn't mean anything "personally" -- but I really feel strongly about this issue. I understand the feelings of those who have "burn-in" concerns, but I strongly feel programming should be sent in correct aspect ratio(no stretching of any kind), as some of us have equipment that won't let you alter it on the viewer end(not that "stretching/zooming should be required on the user end just to see it "correctly"), and therefore, if a station sends it "wrong", there's nothing we can do if we want to see it as it was intended to be seen ....

Quote:


Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel

It is stretched from the middle outwards. So the middle has no distortion and it gets more distorted on the ends.

This is an example of the the "non-linear" stretching I referred to earlier. One of my displays(Samsung TXN model) has a "panarama" mode that lets you do this with 4x3 programming -- I don't use it/like it, but it does keep the center in proper aspect ratio.

There is an excellent explanation of this, as well as some examples of various ways to "stretch" 4x3 to fit 16x9 at the following page:

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~trbarry...x3_on_16x9.htm

-------------------------------------------
HD-One Movies:

Oh ... I couldn't find HD-one ST:III HD airing last weekend On WKRC-DT And so, I was wondering what was going on with the HD-one movie schedule?

Thanks,

Jeff
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