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post #7201 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 06:49 AM
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The only time I was up there, WLWT had twin switching computers. One for analog and one for digital. All the switching was pre-programmed. The digital computer is basically programmed to either take NBC-HD feed or the analog chain. The analog computer gets programmed with all the commercials, live breaks and such. But if they miss a click when programming the digital computer, it stays on the analog until someone up there catches it.

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post #7202 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottA View Post

Thanks for the confirmation that it's not just me. I also have Dish HD but from what I hear from other sites, it may be a long time until we get local HD through them. Dish seems to be focusing on areas where it is difficult to get HD OTA which makes sense (when I set aside the "Why not us?" outrage).
// ScottA

No problem. Fonud this blub from another forum that likely explains why some of us can't get ABC.

"All the digitals except ABC out of Cincinnati are UHF"

http://cincinnatihdtv.com/Mambo/inde...viewtopic&t=47
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post #7203 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jimp2244 View Post

It's been very rare for me to see issues with WLWT-DT switching. I'm almost positive they have automatic switching. Manual switching is more obvious on WKRC-DT, where you can clearly see someone "flipping the switch" to insert local commercials. They used to miss switches all the time, although recently they've been much, much better.

Maybe WLWT-DT didn't have that particular program marked for HD and so they manually switched it once they realized the problem? What other shows or times have you seen WLWT-DT miss HD?

I've seen them miss the switch to HD on various programs, usually sporting events on weekends (about the only thing worth watching on NBC) and for short periods (usually the first few minutes) and that is why I asked about the manual switching.

You are right about WKRC-DT. They are doing a MUCH better job lately switching to HD. I usually record the Letterman show every night (and watch it the next day) and there have been very few misses lately.

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post #7204 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

The only time I was up there, WLWT had twin switching computers. One for analog and one for digital. All the switching was pre-programmed. The digital computer is basically programmed to either take NBC-HD feed or the analog chain. The analog computer gets programmed with all the commercials, live breaks and such. But if they miss a click when programming the digital computer, it stays on the analog until someone up there catches it.

Doc


That's what I figured they had. Thanks for the clarification. It appears as though that's still the case.

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #7205 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wish View Post

No problem. Fonud this blub from another forum that likely explains why some of us can't get ABC.

"All the digitals except ABC out of Cincinnati are UHF"

http://cincinnatihdtv.com/Mambo/inde...viewtopic&t=47


Yes. Also if you check the first page of this thread you'll see a list of the actual frequencies the digital channels use. Although not a perfect method, using your antenna to tune analog 9 can help you find a sweet spot and good position for your rabbit ears when attempting to tune WCPO-DT (actual frequency on channel 10).

If you could get something outside, it probably wouldn't take much to get WCPO-DT, just getting an antenna that performs well on VHF outside and high is probably enough; you may not need a giant antenna to get satisfactory results. If you've already got a dish, even those clip on antennas (which generally aren't even that great) may be "good enough" for you.

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #7206 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 09:49 AM
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I am currently with TWC in Fairfield Township. I think I am paying too much for my digital/Road Runner package, not to mention, the HD content provided is very poor.

I know that TWC will be changing to switched digital and more VOD which will give them the capacity to provide more HD channels and keep pace with DirecTV's upcoming satellite launch. Currently, it looks like Dish Network has the best HD lineup. Also, I have heard that DirecTV compresses their HD signal to the point where it noticeably affects the picture quality.

With these things in mind, what is the general consensus on what provider is best bet for the next few years?

My #1 priority is picture quality followed closely by HD content... not having ESPN2, NFL Network HD, etc. is a joke.

Thanks
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post #7207 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bnewsom View Post

With these things in mind, what is the general consensus on what provider is best bet for the next few years?

Having recently switched from TWC to DirecTV, I am extremely happy (should have done it sooner). The HD locals definitely look just as good as TWC and OTA. I was worried about quality after seeing the poor looking picture at Best Buy, etc. The national HD channels look almost as good as TWC, but these will be replaced by new MPEG4 channels this fall anyway. I wouldn't count on TWC ever adding any HD channels. D* has shot their mouth off too much to not follow through. If the new channels all look as good as the HD locals currently do, quality will not be an issue at all compared to TWC. As for quantity, it won't even be close. Plus, D* has a LOT more SD channels than TWC and I pay quite a bit less for service than I did with TWC.
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post #7208 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 11:01 AM
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I live in Florence, KY which is just 15 miles south of Cincinnati. I purchased a DB8 antenna (from antennasdirect/DB8_HD_Antenna.html) and attached it about 5 feet above my roof line. I have a pre-amp and run the cable down to a distribution panel in the basement. Then, from there, it is distributed signal throughout my 7 or 8 outlets. I only have one HDTV with a ATSC tuner. The local channels 5.1, 9.1, and 12.1 do not come in. 5.1 and 12.1 have a signal strength of 90+, but there is no picture. Channel 19.1 comes in fine along with all the PBS and 64.1. Even the analog signals for 12 and 5 do not come in or they are totally scrambled. I don't understand what is wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.
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post #7209 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhupertgee View Post

I live in Florence, KY which is just 15 miles south of Cincinnati. I purchased a DB8 antenna (from antennasdirect/DB8_HD_Antenna.html) and attached it about 5 feet above my roof line. I have a pre-amp and run the cable down to a distribution panel in the basement. Then, from there, it is distributed signal throughout my 7 or 8 outlets. I only have one HDTV with a ATSC tuner. The local channels 5.1, 9.1, and 12.1 do not come in. 5.1 and 12.1 have a signal strength of 90+, but there is no picture. Channel 19.1 comes in fine along with all the PBS and 64.1. Even the analog signals for 12 and 5 do not come in or they are totally scrambled. I don't understand what is wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.

Welcome to AVS Forum.

Can you (or have you) run temporary long coax straight from the pre-amp to your HDTV (bypassing your distribution panel and coax runs)? This would help us narrow down the cause of your problems.

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #7210 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 12:18 PM
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Actually, yes, I have. It came with a 100 foot coax that I ran directly from the Antenna through the doorway to my TV. This bypassed the pre-amp as well. I still did not receive 12.1 or 5.1. With this method, I did receive 9.1.

Also, the analog stations do come in better......not all scrambled.

Todd
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post #7211 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimp2244 View Post

Since you've already got a dish outside, you could probably put a reasonably small VHF antenna up and get WCPO-DT fine. WBNS 10 Columbus might be interfering a bit but it's still pretty far away from you to cause much of a problem I'd think. In '09 that problem should be solved.

I was hoping to avoid running another cable from outside to inside the house. I'm assuming that the antenna would have a different coax line and couldn't use the satellite's coax.

// Scott A
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post #7212 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 12:28 PM
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I don't have satellite. Just the antenna. 1 coax run to the basement.
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post #7213 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhupertgee View Post

I live in Florence, KY which is just 15 miles south of Cincinnati. I purchased a DB8 antenna (from antennasdirect/DB8_HD_Antenna.html) and attached it about 5 feet above my roof line. I have a pre-amp and run the cable down to a distribution panel in the basement. Then, from there, it is distributed signal throughout my 7 or 8 outlets. I only have one HDTV with a ATSC tuner. The local channels 5.1, 9.1, and 12.1 do not come in. 5.1 and 12.1 have a signal strength of 90+, but there is no picture. Channel 19.1 comes in fine along with all the PBS and 64.1. Even the analog signals for 12 and 5 do not come in or they are totally scrambled. I don't understand what is wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.

I live in Erlanger which is about the same distance as Florence just a little east,and based on my experience you have way to much antenna and I'd ditch the pre amp too
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post #7214 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 12:59 PM
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When I turn off the pre-amp my signal goes from 90 to 60. I still get no picture. This is a UHF antenna.....do I need a UHF/VHF antenna? What do you use?
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post #7215 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 01:08 PM
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I had CM-3018 antenna(large directional,45-60 miles range no pre amp) in the attic of my house.This antenna went into a distribution box(1x8 )that added 3 decibel gain.I would have very unreliable reception,my signal strength would go from 90 to 15 and back on some channels(19,12) and my reception on other channels would be perfect(5,9,64,etc.)I unplugged the power supply to the box and my signal strength went into the tank too,so finally I went up into the attic with an old Silver Sensor I had to experiment.I disconnected the CM3018 and connected the SS and laid on the rafter pointing in the same direction as the CM-3018 went back downstairs and all my signal strengths were less(65-80) on my problem channels(19,12),but they were not fluctuating and all my other channels were the solid too.I replaced my CM-3018 with a CM-3010 and have not had a single problem since.I looked at the link for the antenna you provided and it seems as it's more of a fringe antenna.The website describes it as an antenna that is "intended for people at great distances from the transmitters" and based on my info from Antenna Web. Org we are about 11 or 12 miles away from the towers.I would experiment with a smaller antenna from a local source such as Lowes,Home Depot or Radio Shack.Good luck.
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post #7216 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 08:48 PM
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rhupertgee,

At your location, with an outdoor antenna, I would hardly worry about using a pre-amp, you are much too close to the transmitters in Clifton. What I would recommend to do is, again run the antenna straight to the tv and get some walkie-talkies out (or cell phones) and have someone on the roof and someone watching the tv. Then tune to channel 35 (5.1), find where you get a signal lock. Channel 35 is a strong signal and will get you aimed between the 4 different towers, with FOX to the west and ABC/CBS to the east. By using a pre-amp, I believe you are strengthing you multipath problem. Once you get the antenna aimed right, then try feeding it to the distribution block. If this knocks out your signal, simply use some splitters instead, these have very low loss and should not effect your signal. One thing to remember is, once you get the signal locked without dropouts, you are great, no matter what the signal meter says on the tv. You can find plenty of discussion on how accurate those meters are. As always we're here to help and welcome to AVS!

Alex
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post #7217 of 14383 Old 07-02-2007, 08:57 PM
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I don't know if anyone else watches WXIX in the evening, but I have noticed that last couple of days that shows like That 70s Show, Seinfeld and King of Queens have smooth audio, but the video is very choppy. This is only happening on the digital channel, 19.1, and not on analog. I recall seeing this before, but I don't remember what was causing this. If possible, please confirm what I am seeing. My guess is something from the recording device for the syndicated programming to the encoder is messing up.

Alex
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post #7218 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkyardDogg View Post

rhupertgee,

At your location, with an outdoor antenna, I would hardly worry about using a pre-amp, you are much too close to the transmitters in Clifton. What I would recommend to do is, again run the antenna straight to the tv and get some walkie-talkies out (or cell phones) and have someone on the roof and someone watching the tv. Then tune to channel 35 (5.1), find where you get a signal lock. Channel 35 is a strong signal and will get you aimed between the 4 different towers, with FOX to the west and ABC/CBS to the east. By using a pre-amp, I believe you are strengthing you multipath problem. Once you get the antenna aimed right, then try feeding it to the distribution block. If this knocks out your signal, simply use some splitters instead, these have very low loss and should not effect your signal. One thing to remember is, once you get the signal locked without dropouts, you are great, no matter what the signal meter says on the tv. You can find plenty of discussion on how accurate those meters are. As always we're here to help and welcome to AVS!

I am going to go to Radio Shack and buy a UHF/VHF antenna to see if that helps. I will remove the pre-amp.

The one thing I don't understand is tuning to channel 35. When I do a channel search, the channel 5 and 5.1 are there, but without picture.
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post #7219 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhupertgee View Post

I am going to go to Radio Shack and buy a UHF/VHF antenna to see if that helps. I will remove the pre-amp.

The one thing I don't understand is tuning to channel 35. When I do a channel search, the channel 5 and 5.1 are there, but without picture.


WCPO-DT (9-1) is the only digital channel currently on VHF. It is actually broadcast on channel 10 but your TV re-maps this to display as 9-1 to you. WLWT-DT (5-1) broadcasts on channel 35 (which is UHF) and re-maps on your TV to 5-1. Check the first page of this thread for a list of all the channels and the actual frequencies they broadcast on. In 2009 some of these actual channels will change (for example WKRC-DT (12-1) will move from its current UHF channel to actual channel 12 (VHF) once they turn off their analog station).

If you are not having trouble with 9-1, then adding the VHF piece won't help you, at least at this point.

As has been said, the antenna you are using is quite large and considered to be one of the strongest UHF channels out there, with decent performance on VHF as well even though it's not rated as such. You may want to double-check your balun (little thing on your antenna that converts twin-lead to coax). Also, its possible you've got a bad 100' coax cable, or even a bad f-connector on one of the ends.

I don't think your antenna is a problem. It might be a little bit overkill for your distance, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue. Have you spent a lot of time "aiming" the antenna with someone observing the signal strength on the TV? The antenna you have is pretty directional and if your aim is off a bit it could cause problems. You do probably want to consider removing the pre-amp completely from the picture. I have seen some amps that actually harm the signal when in-line with no power than if they were not in line at all. Plus, if you are amplifying an already strong signal you may have "too much" signal hitting your TV tuner.

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #7220 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 10:09 AM
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Yes, I have spent time pointing the antenna. I just bought a "HDTV" outside UHF/VHF/FM antenna from Lowe's and I am going to try to put it together and try it out to see if I can get those channels.

I would hope the cable is not bad since most of it is run in the walls. It is possible the connectors could be bad. I can re-cut them and re-crimp.

I'll let you know how the new antenna works.
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post #7221 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkyardDogg View Post

I don't know if anyone else watches WXIX in the evening, but I have noticed that last couple of days that shows like That 70s Show, Seinfeld and King of Queens have smooth audio, but the video is very choppy. This is only happening on the digital channel, 19.1, and not on analog. I recall seeing this before, but I don't remember what was causing this. If possible, please confirm what I am seeing. My guess is something from the recording device for the syndicated programming to the encoder is messing up.



I'm having the same problems with WXIX-DT on both of my Polaroid15"4 ATSC sets. It's been going on for the last few weeks.

-----------
Robert
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post #7222 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 11:00 AM
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I know I have contacted the engineer at WXIX in the past, however, I no longer have that email address. If someone does have an email for WXIX, please post or PM so we can get this issue resolved as it is most likely the digital stream is not monitored at WXIX.

Alex
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post #7223 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rhupertgee View Post

Yes, I have spent time pointing the antenna. I just bought a "HDTV" outside UHF/VHF/FM antenna from Lowe's and I am going to try to put it together and try it out to see if I can get those channels.

I would hope the cable is not bad since most of it is run in the walls. It is possible the connectors could be bad. I can re-cut them and re-crimp.

I'll let you know how the new antenna works.

Well, here is my preliminary results:

Purchased an HDTV UHF/VHF/FM outdoor antenna from Lowe's. I hooked it up with just a connection ran through the door of my house to the TV and was able pick up A LOT more channels (Dayton 2,7,22,45) including some HD channels from Dayton (7.1). Cincinnati 9.1 comes in great. The bad news is that Cincinnati 12.1 and 5.1 still have no picture or sound. The signal strength is 90+ on both channels. The weird thing is that I get 12.2 (CW) and 5.2 which is an all weather channel.

Could there be something wrong with my TV? Unfortunately, it is the only HDTV I have to test with.

Thanks for your helps/comments. I feel I am getting closer.
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post #7224 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkyardDogg View Post

I know I have contacted the engineer at WXIX in the past, however, I no longer have that email address. If someone does have an email for WXIX, please post or PM so we can get this issue resolved as it is most likely the digital stream is not monitored at WXIX.

I just emailed the Chief Engineer over at WXIX. I'll let you know if he responds with anything.
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post #7225 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhupertgee View Post

Well, here is my preliminary results:

Purchased an HDTV UHF/VHF/FM outdoor antenna from Lowe's. I hooked it up with just a connection ran through the door of my house to the TV and was able pick up A LOT more channels (Dayton 2,7,22,45) including some HD channels from Dayton (7.1). Cincinnati 9.1 comes in great. The bad news is that Cincinnati 12.1 and 5.1 still have no picture or sound. The signal strength is 90+ on both channels. The weird thing is that I get 12.2 (CW) and 5.2 which is an all weather channel.

Could there be something wrong with my TV? Unfortunately, it is the only HDTV I have to test with.

Thanks for your helps/comments. I feel I am getting closer.


If you're able to decode 12-2 and 5-2 then your TV is receiving the signal for 5-1 and 12-1 just as well and should be able to decode them as well. If I had to guess at this point I'd say it's something with your TV. Do you have a neighbor who has an ATSC tuner set top box that you could borrow perhaps?

If you have a way to reset your TV to factory defaults and then try a re-scan that might be something to try as well.

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #7226 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 01:24 PM
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What would those two channels have anything to do with it though? Why would I get all the channels except those 2......
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post #7227 of 14383 Old 07-03-2007, 08:26 PM
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what you are describing is pretty weird - it's kind of impossible to get the sub-channels without the main. Perhaps you are having a problem with 1080i decoding? Both 12-1 and 5-1 are the only channels in town using 1080i that I know, most of the others are using 720p... Except perhaps WCET-DT (48) which I can't recall.

It's pretty sweet that you're getting Dayton from Florence!
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post #7228 of 14383 Old 07-04-2007, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by psm0110 View Post

what you are describing is pretty weird - it's kind of impossible to get the sub-channels without the main. Perhaps you are having a problem with 1080i decoding? Both 12-1 and 5-1 are the only channels in town using 1080i that I know, most of the others are using 720p... Except perhaps WCET-DT (48) which I can't recall.

It's pretty sweet that you're getting Dayton from Florence!

Ah ha. It probably is related to the 1080i. Hmmmm......I am pretty sure my TV has a max resolution of 1080i, but I will check. That is a good thought and one that I can call RCA with to complain that my 1080i is not working.

It is pretty crazy that I am pulling Dayton, OH from Florence......since I am an alumni of UD, I wanted to try to get University of Dayton Basketball on channel 7 this winter.
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post #7229 of 14383 Old 07-04-2007, 01:51 PM
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We have a firm date for ESPN-2 HD and ESPN-U on TWC. In my monthly bill there is a flyer that says the new lineup is set to debut on August 7. Hooray!
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post #7230 of 14383 Old 07-04-2007, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhupertgee View Post

Ah ha. It probably is related to the 1080i. Hmmmm......I am pretty sure my TV has a max resolution of 1080i, but I will check. That is a good thought and one that I can call RCA with to complain that my 1080i is not working.

It is pretty crazy that I am pulling Dayton, OH from Florence......since I am an alumni of UD, I wanted to try to get University of Dayton Basketball on channel 7 this winter.


I don't think the issue would have to do with the signal being 1080i. If you are using an integrated tuner (one that is internal to the tv), it should automatically convert 1080i signals to 720p if the display is 720p native, and vise-versa for a 1080i native. Now if you are using an external tuner, such as one built in a satellite box, then it is important to know what resolution your tv can display and to make sure the box is set to output that resolution. As far as 1080i native displays, this mainly consists of the older CRT Rear Projection and direct view sets. All panel displays (LCD, DLP, Plasma and LCOS) are either 720p or 1080p native.

Quick run down on resolutions for Cincinnati stations:
(Station, virtual channel, actual channel, resolution)
WLWT-DT 5.1 (35) - 1080i
WLWT-DT 5.2 (35) - 480i
WCPO-DT 9.1 (10) - 720p
WCPO-WX 9.2 (10) - 480i (not exactly, but close)
WKRC-DT 12.1 (31) - 1080i
WKRC-DT 12.2 (31) - 480i
WPTO-DT 14.6 (28) - 1080i
WPTO-DT 14.2-.5 (28) - 480i
WXIX-DT 19.1 (29) - 720p
WXIX-DT 19.2 (29) - 480i
WCET-DT 48.1 (34) - 1080i
WCET-DT 48.2 (34) - 480i
WCVN-DT 54.4 (24) - 720p
WCVN-DT 54.1-.6 (24) - 480i
WSTR-DT 64.1 (33) - 720p (Used to be 1080i when it was still WB)

So I would check WCET 48.1 and see if you can decode that station. If you can't, you need to look into your setup and make sure that a certain setting is not activated or deactivated that could effect how a 1080i channel is converted.

Alex
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