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post #721 of 14404 Old 06-24-2004, 12:44 PM
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thanks doc.. I was affraid that when I get the HD recevier set up it would force me into cincinnati locals only
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post #722 of 14404 Old 06-24-2004, 12:55 PM
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That's only for the DirecTV local channel package (which I doubt you'll want, anyway). You can't get the Dayton locals via satellite, but anything your TV antenna will pull in, the receiver will decode. And the programming guide isn't tied to the access card, either. I can plug in Portland, Oregon's zip code if I like and it'll happily display a program guide for Portland stations. But the DirecTV portion of the receiver still "knows" I'm in Cincinnati.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #723 of 14404 Old 06-24-2004, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like WPTO-DT 28 has their Transmitter up -- At 7pm EDT, Getting a "full bore" 100% reading on the signal quality meter on 28 from the South --- However - there is no audio/video and neither receiver here will get a PSIP or audio lock ...

Anybody else getting them and actually SEE anything besides just a indication that the DT signal is there on 28?

Thanks,

Jeff
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post #724 of 14404 Old 06-24-2004, 05:25 PM
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Looks like nobody's programmed the encoder. Samsung T-151 gets plenty of signal - and it's digital - but it can't read the data. The Zenith won't lock on with a channel scan, either. However, it's had programming information (thanks to DirecTV's APG) for 14-2 thru 14-5 for some time. Tuning any of those placeholders shows a 95% signal. But, without the PSIP, the box won't tune it.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #725 of 14404 Old 06-24-2004, 05:37 PM
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Getting 63 to 69 signal strength on my Samsung T160 on WPTO-DT in Huber Heights. Ch 28 from Columbus is obviously affected. I only get a marginal picture when precisely aimed at Columbus now.

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post #726 of 14404 Old 06-24-2004, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah. I don't know how long they've had a signal on the air today, but don't think it was long. I checked it this morning, and around noon or so I had antenna aimed at Columbus while "optimizing" my Coax stub filters a little(I'm knocking down 2+7+93.7FM, as the FM trap on the preamp doesn't quite do enough with that one!) and I did happen to flip analog tuner to 28 and was seeing a weak signal from WTTE 28 at that time, which I certianly wouldn't be able to see now! I'm guessing it will be a lot like WCET-DT/WOSU 34 here -- Still takes some tropo but WOSU has to be blasting in to get a generally nasty looking pic through WCET-DT's snow, or I see them occasionally much better when WCET-DT goes down every night.

I don't know how they are doing it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Encoder(s) for WPTO-DT were at ThinkTV studios in Dayton -- For instance -- They could send a ATSC compliant stream over STL -- I don't know, but if they did that I suppose in their case the PSIP generator could be either in Dayton or at the Transmitter site. I'm not sure, but I think I had heard they've had WPTO-DT services on Dayton TW cable for quite some time.

Anyhow -- Follows is Pic of what I'm getting from the "signal" on 28 off Zenith receiver from the south, DTC-100 won't even let me know its there, as it would have to get a lock first before it would show up on it's "antenna info"/Signal meter screen" :
LL

Jeff
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post #727 of 14404 Old 06-24-2004, 08:45 PM
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Looks just like the thermometer on my Zenith. I'm maybe a skosh to the left of your signal. Of course, I've got mondo antenna pointed right at them. I got WXIX-DT when they were just running exciter.

Hmmmmm.. signal but no picture or PSIP. And they're on WHO'S tower? I rest my case .

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #728 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 05:09 AM
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My SIR-T151 won't lock on, but if I set the channel to 28-0 and turn on the signal meter, I'm showing a strong steady signal at 7AM.

Clarke
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post #729 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 05:15 AM
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Clarke

OT, but quick questoin: have you applied the firmware upgrade to your 151? Got mine in the mail, this week, but haven't applied it, yet. Hoping it fixes the audio issue when WXIX-DT goes in and out of local breaks.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #730 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 06:06 AM
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No. I just read about it on the AVS Forum the other day, but haven't sent for it yet. My unit is registered but I didn't receive a notice from Samsung. I assume we're talking about the broadcast flag upgrade.

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post #731 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 06:44 AM
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Just found gold...

Apparently when the DirecTV installer setup my receiver, he did a scan for locals and manually removed the channels he thought were not HD... Basically removed all of WCET's and the WB digital channel... Just for kicks, I re-did the local scan and kept the channels. Sure enough Sheryl Crowe was in HD on WCET4 last night...

Finding new channels is kinda like finding money in an old pants pocket.. ;-)
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post #732 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 09:52 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DrDon
Looks like nobody's programmed the encoder. Samsung T-151 gets plenty of signal - and it's digital - but it can't read the data. The Zenith won't lock on with a channel scan, either. However, it's had programming information (thanks to DirecTV's APG) for 14-2 thru 14-5 for some time. Tuning any of those placeholders shows a 95% signal. But, without the PSIP, the box won't tune it.


I'm getting a strong signal at my location in Grant County KY. As of approx 11:30 AM. The channels are now mapped as follows 14-2 14-3 14-4 14-5 14-6 which is blank.

-----------
Robert
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post #733 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Noticed WPTO-DT was working correctly when I tuned in just after 11:30am. I'm getting - 14.2~14.5 SD services running presently, PSIP lock on 14.6 (HD subchannel -- Currently blank W/PSIP/Audio lock - Like WPTD-DT does it). See here for more info on the program services /Subchannels : http://www.thinktv.org/about/future.html

Woo hoo! ALL 15 DTV stations in SW Ohio with a Digital Channel Assignment(which is all the Full Service Stations) are NOW On the air :-) --- When I first started watching in 2001, there were 5 .... and Most in our area are running High power+HD ... THAT's some real Progress IMO -- It took DECADES for us to get that many analog stations .. Congrats to everyone at the stations+great work getting everything up and running.

3 Years ago, when I put up a 2nd antenna/feedline so I would no longer have to rotate between Cincinnati and Dayton(which I've been doing for ever pretty much) I had also thought about adding a single channel antenna w/jointenna for WPTO 14 so would no longer have to rotate for WPTO ... I never got around to messing with it -- but now I don't have to ---

Follows is 14.6 HD schedule for next couple of Days from their Website schedule - Looks like they are planning on doing some Time-shifting of some of the stuff that runs on PBS HD channel during the day -- which I think is a great Idea. Looks like I will finally get to see what Clifford+Jakers look like in HD :

6/26/2004
6:00 PM
Smart Gardening

6:30 PM
Chefs A' Field

7:00 PM
American Experience

8:00 PM
Nature

9:00 PM
Great Performances

10:00 PM
Desert Speaks

10:30 PM
Tracks Ahead

6/27/2004
6:00 PM
Clifford's Puppy Days

6:30 PM
Jakers!

7:00 PM
Desert Speaks

7:30 PM
Great Museums

8:00 PM
American Experience

9:00 PM
Great Performances

Oh -- In case anyone was wondering --- Last time I looked, antennaweb gives you bearing as if they were in Oxford on WKOI's tower -- That is wrong -- They're on WXIX tower in Cincinnati ...

Quote:


Originally posted by DrDon
Looks just like the thermometer on my Zenith. I'm maybe a skosh to the left of your signal. Of course, I've got mondo antenna pointed right at them. I got WXIX-DT when they were just running exciter.

Hmmmmm.. signal but no picture or PSIP. And they're on WHO'S tower? I rest my case .

LOL! At least it didn't take them long to fix it :-)

According to their CP on FCC site -- Their antenna pattern is "sort of" directional but not overly so--- It doesn't favor the South as much as other directions, but if they are at full power I'd think Most folks should still be fine.

WPTO-DT CP antenna pattern here :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot...84&p360=1.000&

-------------------------------

I don't see that they've filed for a STA, so I would guess they are probably at full power under Program Test Authority. Here's what they would be using if at full power:

WPTO OH OXFORD USA (Digital)

Licensee: GREATER DAYTON PUBLIC TELEVISION, INC.
Service Designation: DT Digital television station

Channel: 28 554 - 560 MHz Modification of Construction Permit
File No.: BMPEDT-20020430ABK Facility ID number: 25065
CDBS Application ID No.: 601246

39° 07' 19.00" N Latitude Site in Canadian Border Zone 84° 32' 52.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization: Horizontal (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 400. kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 276. meters HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 492. meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 270. meters AGL
TV Zone: 1
Directional Antenna ID No.: 43343
Pattern Rotation: 0.00

Relative Field values for directional antenna Relative Field polar plot
Relative field values do not include any pattern rotation that may be indicated above.

0° 1.000 60° 0.779 120° 0.673 180° 0.521 240° 0.688 300° 0.793 10° 0.977 70° 0.828 130° 0.560 190° 0.511 250° 0.810 310° 0.777 20° 0.917 80° 0.885 140° 0.467 200° 0.477 260° 0.891 320° 0.816 30° 0.842 90° 0.911 150° 0.430 210° 0.446 270° 0.918 330° 0.885 40° 0.776 100° 0.880 160° 0.452 220° 0.468 280° 0.885 340° 0.949 50° 0.768 110° 0.788 170° 0.495 230° 0.468 290° 0.834 350° 0.984

-----------------

Probably more than anyone wanted to know, but there you go ...

Jeff
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post #734 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 10:22 AM
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I'm about as far south as you can get and I receive WPTO-DT perfectly. On the other hand I have problems with WXIX-DT and occasionally with WSTR-DT and WCET-DT. I don't know if their antenna patterns are different or if they are low power which may be the case with all of them.

-----------
Robert
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post #735 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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That's good news Bob :-) I'd bet you were their first OTA viewer.

WCET-DT's antenna pattern doesen't send much(according to FCC site anyway) in some directions towards the south -- its greatest null is shown on FCC site to be at 160+200 degrees bearing from their tower(true bearings, not magnetic) -- relative field value for those directions is shown at .19. Here's how you figure ERP from the Relative field values: Relative filed value SQUARED multipled by MAX ERP they are running. So, (.19x.19) X 215,000 Watts = 7.7 KW ERP should be being sent in those directions by WCET-DT's antenna.

Dry ridge should be a little better off -- didn't look at my map, but If I recall correctly I think it's pretty much directly south of the Cincy Towers .. So 180 degree bearing from WCET-DT = .370 relative field value == 29 KW ERP.

WSTR-DT IS running a low Power STA(Special Temporary authority) -- But it does seem to get out quite well anyway (power isn't the whole ball of wax) ... Its directional antenna pattern especially doesn't favor the East or SE of its tower. FCC site shows a .599 relative field value for their 17.1 KW ERP STA at 180 degrees, which would equal about 6.1 KW ERP being sent your way.

For WPTO-DT to Dry ridge -- .521 relative field value listed for their CP ... So .. (.521x.521) X 400,000 Watts = 108.5 KW ERP - H-Polarized signal.

WXIX-DT, from the same tower -- .537 relative field value towards Dry ridge .. They have a permit to move to higher power, however I think they're currently running with their licensed facility -- 227KW ERP max ... So, towards Dry ridge, that would be 65.4 KW ERP -- Their Signal uses Circular Polarization, all others in the area use a Horizontally polarized signal.

In comparison, WLWT-DT (512 KW ERP in all directions) and WKRC-DT (800 KW ERP in all directions) use a non-directional transmitting antenna, therefore their coverage area is circular.

For more info, You can look up this stuff here (make sure to choose the "detailed Info+CDBS links option for your query - I find Search By radius+a specific location very handy as well as it gives you the bearings+reverse bearings from your location ) :

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

Jeff
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post #736 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 11:01 AM
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Jeff.. You seem to know quite a bit about OTA reception, so I am asking you for advice.

I just recently had DirecTV come out and install the HD Dish & Roof top antenna (looks like a Terk cheapy).. I get all the Cincy stations fine.

I am located in Villa Hills, KY. Being on top of the hill, there doesnt appear to be much in the way to the towers. Seeing someone in Dry Ridge is picking them up pretty easily in Dayton makes me think I should not have any problem.

If you were me.. What would you do to gain the best OTA channels available. (point my existing antenna towards Dayton and add an inside antenna for cincy? or what? )

Thanks in advance!
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post #737 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 12:43 PM
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ITS ON AIR WPTO - DT AT LAST. THE ENCODER'S, AND PSIP GENERATOR ARE IN DAYTON SO THE SIGNAL IS FIBER TO THE TRANSMITTER. WPTO - DT IS AT FULL POWER , I BELIEVE IT AND WCPO - DT ARE THE ONLY TWO TRANSMITTERS AT FULL POWER.
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post #738 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 02:15 PM
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I will see if I can snag it on my paired CM4221A "array" when I get back from work. Should be good at 400kW, since I can get WXIX-DT on most days at 227.
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post #739 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 03:14 PM
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I've been enjoying WPTO-DT off and on all afternoon (I'm on vacation). At full power the're coming in great.

Off subject, can Jeff or anyone else tell me if WCVN-DT is running at full power, or at reduced power under an STA? If the're runing at reduced power, there may be hope for me yet....someday.

Clarke
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post #740 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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DTV insider -- Thanks for your+everyone at ThinkTV's hard work, we appreciate it.

Quote:


Originally posted by jspicoli
I just recently had DirecTV come out and install the HD Dish & Roof top antenna (looks like a Terk cheapy).. I get all the Cincy stations fine.

I am located in Villa Hills, KY. Being on top of the hill, there doesnt appear to be much in the way to the towers. Seeing someone in Dry Ridge is picking them up pretty easily in Dayton makes me think I should not have any problem.

If you were me.. What would you do to gain the best OTA channels available. (point my existing antenna towards Dayton and add an inside antenna for cincy? or what? )


I'll give it a shot, but Doc could likely help you out more -- as I think you are right between him+the Cincy+Dayton towers -- If I recall correctly he's on a hill(farther away from the Towers) and uses a ATtic antenna setup for Dayton AND Cincinnati.

Anyhow --- I show Villa Hills(if it's on my map right - which Shows it Just South of River+Just NNE of Florence) at 49 Miles from the Dayton TV antenna farm -- Well within range, especially since you say you are on a hill. Dayton Stations have a general coverage area of around 55-65 miles or so - depending upon terrain and other issues at receiving location of course, and a couple of the Dayton stations are using fairly directional antenna patterns.

Dayton Towers are in same, exact direction as WSTR(WB) Cincinnati tower/WXIX(Fox cincinnati - Where WPTO-DT is now too) tower from Villa Hills, so you probably shouldn't need seperate antennas, one heading+the "right antenna" should work for Cincinnati +Dayton, except perhaps for WCVN-DT KET Covington, KY which is in Taylor Mill to your SSE. Everything except WCVN-DT (Including Dayton) is within a 30 degree bearing of each other, and since you're so close to Cincy, I'd think a quite directional antenna should work well for you -- The more directivity an antenna has, also generally speaking the more gain it has, which is what you want for Dayton.

Probably the biggest issue you would run into is, your only about 4-6 miles from all the Cincinnati towers, and since they are so close AND you have to aim right through them for the Dayton stations -- Those very strong signals from the Cincinnati stations can make it difficult to receive some Dayton stations, especially ones that transmit on channels that are right next to some Cincinnati stations. This can make it very difficult for your receiver to be selective enough to sort out what is what. For instance, there is WXIX(Fox) 19 analog Cincinnati and WBDT-DT 18 Dayton -- WXIX-DT(Fox digital) 29 Cincinnati, WRGT-DT (Fox digital) 30 Dayton -- Which also uses a directional antenna pattern that doesn't favor the South, so the signal would even be weaker right next to the strong WXIX-DT.

Also, while a preamp might be a good idea for Dayton from your location -- You're so close to The Cincinnati stations that the strong signals would likely overload the preamp, which would likely add a bunch of "noise"(Intermodulation distortion) right where the bit weaker signals from Dayton are.

I don't know what antenna you're using --- That's a big factor --- If it's one of those dish clip on antennas, the ones I've seen at least -- That's pretty much a set of "rabbit ears" (Folded dipole basically) -- worse than rabbit ears really as I think they can only be adjusted to work best in the direction the dish is aimed, which I would think think would be generally South-Southwest -- Which probably does work good for Cincinnati in your location, as IF that's the sort of antenna you have, it's probably picking up the Cincinnati stations off the "back side" of the antenna (There is no back side really, but if it's mounted with the dish BEHIND it it probably isn't going to have much of a chance at Dayton) -- But, yeah, if you can "aim it" properly towards Downtown Cincinnati, if you get anything at all from Dayton (Including the UHF analog stations) that should tell you something.

Anyhow -- To try to answer you question without going into too much detail --- What I would probably do is pick up a decent, Hi-gain directional UHF antenna such as the CM4228 (as close as you are to WCPO, it should be fine for its VHF signal on 10 as well .. Rest of Cincy/Dayton digitals are currently on UHF -- You can allways add a seperate VHF antenna later if necessary) stick it on a 10ft mast in the yard, aim it North(just a tad West of Downtown -- pretty much right along I-75 corridor) and see what I get from Dayton and Cincinnati. For KET/WCVN, I'd probably get hold of a Channel 24 Jointenna(so I could combine it onto the same feedline with the CM 4228) and a small Yagi and aim it towards Taylor mill for KET. I would try to find a "sweet spot" on the roof for the antenna setup for best reception before permanently mounting it. I would try to keep the feedline to TV as short as possible and I wouldn't use a preamp unless I "knocked down" the strong Signals from Cincinnat(which would probably get pretty complicated and would probably involve quite a bit of expense ) ... From on top of a hill though from your location -- You probably won't need a preamp anyway for Dayton --

If you want to check it out, WKRC-DT has a excellent page here: concerning OTA HD reception : -- In your case -- because of your location -- What they say about aiming the antenna towards Downtown Cincinnati not only works for Cincy, but it would work for Dayton Too!

http://www.wkrc.com/hdtv/receiving_hdtv.aspx

Hope that makes some sense -- Let us know how it goes if you decide to try it. You won't see a lot more HD than you do from the Cincy stations, but the Dayton stations make nice backups when things go "wrong" or when Cincy station has something else scheudled/etc. You do get some different SD programming from Dayton -- say, UD basketball games, and sometimes (but not a lot) different NFL games and the like -- Don't know how it will work out with the FOX NFL HD this fall -- I have often seen WRGT Fox Dayton air Steelers games when Fox cincy has a different game.

------------------------

Oh, BTW - -- Microbob in Dry ridge is talking about WPTO-DT 28 (remaps to 14.x) - PBS/Think TV which just came on the air. -- Its in Cincinnati, Not Dayton. Dayton towers are 75 Miles from Dry ridge, a little outside their coverage area.

Jeff
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post #741 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Clarke -- Per William's previous comments -- WCVN-DT is at their fully licensed power (53.5 KW ERP).

If I recall correctly -- You've got that hill very nearby and in the exact wrong spot -- But -- seems like if you're getting the analog fairly well (even if it's a bit snowy+ghosty - relatively speaking the DT is actually running more power than the analog(162 KW ERP "peak" - Multiply DTV ERP power by about 4 or 5 for the rough equiveent), you would think you should be able to get the digital too, especially since its on a Much lower frequency a little less prone to terrain issues(lower frequencies even on UHF take less power to cover same area as well - High UHF is especially prone to terrain blockage issues) .. The DT transmitting antenna is only about 30 ft below the analog - I think William had said that the analog has a greater amount of Beam tilt, which might exacerbate your terrain issues a little, but still ....

Here's the info on WCVN-DT's facilities from FCC site:

WCVN-TV KY COVINGTON USA (Digital)

Licensee: KENTUCKY AUTHORITY FOR EDUCATIONAL TV
Service Designation: DT Digital television station

Channel: 24 530 - 536 MHz Licensed
File No.: BLEDT-20020201ABJ Facility ID number: 34204
CDBS Application ID No.: 594281

39° 01' 50.00" N Latitude Site in Canadian Border Zone 84° 30' 23.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization: Horizontal (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 53.5 kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 117. meters HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 335. meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 82. meters AGL TV Zone: 2 Directional Antenna ID No.: 31523 Pattern Rotation: 0.00
Antenna Make: DIE Antenna Model: TLP16B(24)

Relative Field values for directional antenna Relative Field polar plot
Relative field values do not include any pattern rotation that may be indicated above.

0° 1.000 60° 0.820 120° 0.602 180° 0.676 240° 0.602 300° 0.820 10° 0.994 70° 0.767 130° 0.608 190° 0.672 250° 0.609 310° 0.871 20° 0.978 80° 0.715 140° 0.623 200° 0.659 260° 0.631 320° 0.915 30° 0.951 90° 0.668 150° 0.642 210° 0.642 270° 0.668 330° 0.951 40° 0.915 100° 0.631 160° 0.659 220° 0.623 280° 0.715 340° 0.978 50° 0.871 110° 0.609 170° 0.672 230° 0.623 290° 0.767 350° 0.994

Jeff
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post #742 of 14404 Old 06-25-2004, 05:31 PM
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Clarke..

Don't know about you, but I have to turn the antenna to get WCVN-DT, too. I'm not surprised. My yagi has a very narrow beam and CVN is quite a ways east of the others. When I connect my combo (wider beam) they come in just fine. But I lose Dayton.

Jspicoli

Jeff's correct. From your position, a small UHF yagi on the roof might be able to nail Cincy and Dayton. You might have to make a few trips up there to point it. If I move mine more than 2 degrees, I'll lose one of the Dayton stations. So, finding that notch is kind of hard. But I'm in the attic. WKRC-DT comes in a little less than the others because it's east of the direction I'm pointing. It'll be farther east for you. WCPO-DT is VHF and, while the Samsung sometimes has fits, the Zenith pulls it down just fine.

From Florence, with the yagi pointed directly at WXIX, I get everybody BUT Fox Dayton and WB Dayton. WCVN breaks up as does WPTD-DT and WKOI-DT.

Happy to help you further if you need it.

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post #743 of 14404 Old 06-26-2004, 04:59 AM
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Thanks everyone for the info. I currently get WCVN-DT, but not without dropouts. I have a Blake JBX14 yagi pointed for best reception at WCVN-DT. It has a wide enough band width that I still get all the other Cincy stations without dropouts. I have tried rotating it toward Dayton on multiple occasions, but without any luck. WCVN-DT reception here is more consistant in the summer than in the winter. In the winter I have to rotate the antenna further CW to maintain reception of WCVN-DT and then I loose WSTR-DT, but I'm pretty sure WSTR-DT is not at full power so that situation may correct itself in the future.

I may try a 4228 in the future on a second mast with a separate feedline to a remote controlled A/B switch to see if it does better with WCVN-DT or the Dayton Stations unless I can talk William into going outside and putting 200 Ft shims under the tower legs.

Clarke
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post #744 of 14404 Old 06-26-2004, 06:58 AM
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Clarke...

Your dropouts wouldn't happen to coincide with the planes, would they? Half of the reason I stepped up to the CM 4248 was because it was better at rejecting the reflections than the combo was.

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post #745 of 14404 Old 06-26-2004, 07:43 AM
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Dr Don...
I don't think I've had any problems with the planes, but the next time I have drop outs I'll check the traffic and see if there is a connection. The traffic pattern is perpendicular to and crosses the antenna pattern to WCVN-DT.

I'm also considering a new STB, but probably not before the next generation receivers on the LG or Thompson boxes. Hopefully they will be available this fall or early next year.

Clarke

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post #746 of 14404 Old 06-26-2004, 08:13 AM
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Booming in fine here in Amelia. I've not been reading the forums much this past week due to issues at work, so I was pleasantly surprised when I sat down to watch last night to find them up and going. :-)

Dave
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post #747 of 14404 Old 06-26-2004, 09:10 AM
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Clarke..

Easy way to check: tune to 54 analog and just watch it as one flies over. Looks like we're getting the landers, today, so you should have plenty of opportunities . If you see the picture start to jerk around as one lands (on either N/S runway) then you've found the source of your dropouts.

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post #748 of 14404 Old 06-26-2004, 10:06 AM
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Out of the loop, lately, awaiting the SA 8000HD. Is TNT HD always SD smooth/wide? Is there any HD material? Does it mirror SD TNT?
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post #749 of 14404 Old 06-26-2004, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Clarke,

Some other thoughts, FWIW ---

You aren't using a preamp are you? If so, defintely try getting rid of it. Also -- while it can be of some use in some situations Adding an attenuator while using a preamp to try to solve overload problems isn't going to help if it is the preamp that is overloading and putting extra "noise" (IM) on ch 24 ...

Certianly Could be multipath issue(or perhaps more likely a combination of issues, which is what I would suspect) -- but, still -- I wouldn't be surprised at all(especially so if you're using a preamp) if one of the main issues involve getting TOO MUCH signal -- For example -- Reception better in summer(leaves on the trees=a little more attenuation of signals, especially on UHF) Than winter -- Keep in mind -- Trees/leaves don't Create Multipath -- They attenuate signals -- but can be multipath facctors -- for instance -- Tree leaves may Block more of direct line of sight signal in summer, and in Winter you'd get more of the direct signal and less signal from Multipath -- or Tree leaves might block more of the Echos ....

Now, that "too strong" signal might not be from WCVN specifically(although it could be as close as you are), but could be something else(or a combination of strong signals just about anywhere on VHF/UHF - including off of TV channels) causing overload/IM issues -- Although I think your terrain issues are probably the main reason why you haven't had any luck with Dayton -- still a "iron curtain" of noise effect(Recevier desense/overload due to nearby STRONG signals+overload issues in same or nearly same direction) might have something to do with it too.

I don't recall which receiver you are using -- But, for the most part I'd think the front end of receiver should really be able to handle such strong signals as you should be getting from Cincy -- I do have to wonder about some specific models where this is concerned though ... Hughes E86 especially comes to mind from various posts I've read ..

If you're using a preamp though --at your distance from the towers -- I can pretty much guarentee that if you're using one -- It is definitely overloading and spreading "noise" all over the place, which might be effecting some channels and not others. It might not be easy to tell what's going on just by looking at the "snow" (especially on 24, since unless it's off air, WCVN-DT's signal would make it difficult to see any thing odd) .... In fact, the intermod might just show up as fairly clean looking snow, but there may REally be a signal(say from dayton on Channel 26) hiding underneath there ....

If it's happening w/o use of a preamp though -- again, I would think the Receiver should be designed to handle the strong signals, but still, a attenuator(RS sells a inexpenisve Variable attenuator) might be worthwhile to check out.

I'd think it also might be worthwhile to pick up a antenna such as a silver sensor or RS DBT(now calling it "dual HDTV antenna or some such thing), as well as some extra feedline so you can move it around (in the yard, by the window/etc/etc/etc) so you can see what you can get with it ... That MIGHT tell you something, too ....

Blake JBX14 is one of the highest gain, narrowest beam-width(high-directivity) antennas out there, BTW.

Jeff
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post #750 of 14404 Old 06-26-2004, 12:29 PM
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Jeff..

Had to laugh. You and I read different things into the summer/winter thing. In the winter, the planes land from the south all the time. Not so much in the summer. And Clarke's about 1/4 mile from me. At only ten miles or so, the leaf attenuation thing didn't enter my mind

Doc

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