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post #7471 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 12:05 PM
 
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My wife has informed me I have until thursday Sept 6 to have this NBC/KET issue figured out. The Colts are playing & John Melencamp is performing...Worse case scenario I go OTA but my OTA signal is inconsistent out here in the boonies which can be MORE frustrating than not getting it at all to begin with.
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post #7472 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

Yes ... They've been down all week during the Day+come up sometime in the evening or late afternoon.

Sort of thing that would happen if they were doing tower work or other maintancnce.

Is WSTR still down? I can't get a signal and I used to have a consistent & solid one in the 70's. Now I can't get a sniff.
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post #7473 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wish View Post

Is WSTR still down? I can't get a signal and I used to have a consistent & solid one in the 70's. Now I can't get a sniff.

Just checked, and WSTR-DT is now the air at 3:26pm Sunday. Haven't looked earlier today, but it is the first time I've seen them on air since Thursday evening or so.

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post #7474 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

Just checked, and WSTR-DT is now the air at 3:26pm Sunday. Haven't looked earlier today, but it is the first time I've seen them on air since Thursday evening or so.

Thanks for the heads up !
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post #7475 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 03:08 PM
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WCPO-DT now has its 6 PM news in HD. All the studio shots are widescreen but some of the field reports are "blue barred" or stretched but some look to be HD. The stuff from ABC looks stretched. The weather maps look great in HD.

I wonder how long it will take the other local stations to go HD for the local newscasts? My bet is that WKRC-DT is next.

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post #7476 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill R (# 2) View Post

WCPO-DT now has its 6 PM news in HD. All the studio shots are widescreen but some of the field reports are "blue barred" or stretched but some look to be HD. The stuff from ABC looks stretched. The weather maps look great in HD.

I wonder how long it will take the other local stations to go HD for the local newscasts? My bet is that WKRC-DT is next.

Looks good ... I figured they might be getting close when I noticed some of the field reports lately from out of town were distorted video that was 16x9 "squeezed" into 4x3 area with side bars ...

As for who is next, I wouldn't want to bet on that ... I thought WLWT might end up being first, although I believe they probably got a lot of new gear about 10 years ago when they went all digital(well pretty much from my understanding except for the analog transmitter) ...

I do recall hearing somewhere that CBS "wanted" it's affiliates to go to local HD news, but not sure if they were just talking about the CBS O&O's or not ... Did notice during the last "weather warning" that WKRC-DT was inserting a different from the analog "Severe weather/local12.com" bug outside of 4x3 area ... When I saw it there wasn't HD programming airing on CBS, but am guessing they could have done it if it was ...

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post #7477 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 03:27 PM
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Definitely looks awesome! My bet is WLWT-DT will go HD next. I think we will see WKRC, WLWT, WCPO in HD before Feb. 2009. I think WKRC's sale will need to go through before any more money is spent there.

Alex
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post #7478 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 06:05 PM
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Repeated last night's monitor, and got same results. ie
tuned to wlwt-dt 84-1
at 8pm it blanked out, got 'no signal'
stepped up to ket1 84-3, decoded
to ket2 84-4, decoded
to ket3 84-5, *decoded*
to ket4 84-6, decoded, and still in SD mode
to ket5 84-17, 'no signal'
to ket6 84-18 ,'no signal'
to wlwt-wx 84-33, decoded

stepped back down, same results as above and wlwt-dt decoded

stepped back up, and ket3 was now gone and ket4 was now in HD

tuned to 85 and back to 84, and again 'no signal' on everything...

So it seems ket5 and ket6 go away first, then ket3 stops and ket4 switches; and wlwt blanks out (when ket5 and ket6 stop?) just before ket4 switches.

I also set up my PC with the MDP-130 card and took some more caps; 84 before, 84 after, and 85 for comparison. One notable item - the PSIP CRC errors are (essentially) gone. (Wonder if it's because of wlwt's current lack of eit/epg info...). Attached are 'export to html' output of tsreader lite.

 

newcaps.zip 11.1435546875k . file
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post #7479 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 07:23 PM
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Boy, you hit the nail exactly on the head.
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post #7480 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkyardDogg View Post

Definitely looks awesome!

Studio Shots+the "new" HD weather Graphics do look excellent ... I'm really liking the 720p with the weather graphics ...

Also, For the first day, they're really doing a fine job of it too, including regarding the AR issues involving the HD studio shots, 16x9 SD local field reports(and from Little Leauge WS in PA tonight), and The 4x3 SD stuff ...

Al Schottelkotte(spelling?) would be proud, I'd think ...

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post #7481 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Bonus HD!

Cool! SOAS is HD as well! Excellent! Been watching them for 20 years it seems, now in HD! Gonna have to send Martenelli+crew a big thank you for this !

Jeff
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post #7482 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

Bonus HD!

Cool! SOAS is HD as well! Excellent! Been watching them for 20 years it seems, now in HD! Gonna have to send Martenelli+crew a big thank you for this !

The high school football and all of the Bengals sideline and interview footage was in HD too. Once WCPO gets things polished up (graphics and such that were 4:3 and boxed in), they'll have quite a high standard for the other big 3 stations in town to meet in terms of local HD content. Bravo to WCPO!

On a side note, it looks like we may have some severe weather in the area tomorrow. It looks like their HD weather system may get a good work out.

P.S. It was nice for the Don't Waste Your Money segment to expose the fallacies of purchasing off-brand cheap HD sets.
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post #7483 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plughplover View Post
I also set up my PC with the MDP-130 card and took some more caps; 84 before, 84 after, and 85 for comparison..
Why didn't I think of that! Duh! Well, just did that on my end OTA(attached) and made some quick comparisons to your TSreader HTM files. At first glance, notice there's definitely some different stuff in there for KET stream, for example check out the *TVCT info from your TW mux capture vs. my OTA KET TS cap .... Will try to look at it a little more closely tomorrow when I have more time, but I have a feeling I'm not going to see anything you or William haven't already noticed that might look "problematic" ...

* - edit: However, if CVCT(cable virtual channel table) is being utilized/sent, TSreader does not show it, only TVCT(terrestrial VCT).

Another thing I was "just wondering" about which I didn't mention earlier regarded the TSID and how that worked with TW muxing KET+WLWT together(or any other 2 stations streams into the same stream) .. With TW's Mux I see everything has the same TSID (all WLWT-DT+WCVN-DT stuff) which makes sense I suppose, dunno if you can have more than one in a single TS. But, with OTA, the TSID's are issued by FCC and are tied *directly* to the station involved(and no two stations will have the same TSID), which may be actually a matter of a bit of importance in some circumstances regarding OTA tuning issues and that every station gets a different TSID. As for example, many stations share the same virutal channel #'s(in VCT) ... There is even a site that allows you to look up the TSID #'s .... see here for some info( Note however, the lookup site in link at this post seems to currently be having problems) :

http://www.freelists.org/archives/op.../msg00090.html

---------------------------------------

Anyhow -- In Attached zip file is HTML export(w/o the thumbnails of video decode) from TS reader from KET OTA (specifically WCVN-DT 24 Covington) TS for you to compare with yours as well ... From 11:48pm(KET4 in HD mode), and 12:08 am tonight(All streams SD mode) ... Note for completeness : I use "ATSC BDA Source" with TSReader with Hauppauge HVR-1600(PCI) --
Note: I should also say I have to restart TSreader to get the proper info before/after KET "transiston" from HD mode to SD mode or vice versa, as there doesn't seem to be a "refresh" option on the "lite" version at least ....

 

KETSCAP.ZIP 23.361328125k . file

Jeff
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post #7484 of 14359 Old 08-19-2007, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post

The high school football and all of the Bengals sideline and interview footage was in HD too.

I didn't get a chance to see that, as I was just monitoring them out of corner of my eye while working on my response to plughplover ...

Are you sure it was HD and not SD widescreen though? For instance, all of the Outside the studio field shots I caught on the 11pm news was SD widescreen ...

Quote:


P.S. It was nice for the Don't Waste Your Money segment to expose the fallacies of purchasing off-brand cheap HD sets.

I didn't get to watch the entire 9news, but Did notice only one shot in another story and the Matarese bit, and some of the "old" weather graphics were the *only* material originating from WCPO I saw in the news report that were 4x3 .... Anyway, I thought that was pretty impressive for the first day, much along the lines of WHIO-DT Dayton has done -- although they're SD widescreen at best, including for the studio shots, and they had some AR issues(stretched 4x3 at first w/o "squeezing in" the sidebars), which they've long since worked out ....

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post #7485 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbenson81 View Post

Beginning with the 2007 season, CBS will air five or six of Sunday's games in high-definition.

All games occuring Weeks 1, 5, 6, 9, 12 and 15 will be broadcast in high-definition.

See below... the Tennessee at Jacksonville game is apparently not in HD in week 1.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wish View Post

"All of the 16 regular season games probably will be in HDTV."

Thanks for the info. That's more than acceptable. I can live without HD for the preseason as long as it will be HD when the bullets are real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlbUC View Post

CBS is doing more games in HD this year, so I am hoping we won't have to deal with any SD games for the whole regular season.

Thought I'd post this piece of bad news from the Programming forum. As mlbUC said over there, the Browns suck so bad that the Bengals week 2 game will not be in HD on CBS.

Bengals week 1 game will be in HD on ESPN Monday Night Football and as far as I know WKRC-DT will also have the HD feed.


=================
http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

Looks like 5 games a week.

NFL on CBS Week 1: Sunday, Sept. 9
Denver @ Buffalo, 1:00 p.m. (CBS HD)
Pittsburgh @ Cleveland, 1:00 p.m. (CBS HD)
Kansas City @ Houston, 1:00 p.m. (CBS HD)
Tennessee @ Jacksonville, 1:00 p.m.
New England @ N.Y. Jets, 1:00 p.m. (CBS HD)
Miami @ Washington, 1:00 p.m. (CBS HD)

NFL on CBS Week 2: Sunday, Sept. 16, CBS Doubleheader
Houston @ Carolina, 1:00 p.m.
Cincinnati @ Cleveland, 1:00 p.m.
Buffalo @ Pittsburgh, 1:00 p.m. (CBS HD)
Indianapolis @ Tennessee, 1:00 p.m. (CBS HD)
Kansas City @ Chicago, 4:15 p.m. (CBS HD)
N.Y. Jets @ Baltimore, 4:15 p.m. (CBS HD)
Oakland @ Denver, 4:15 p.m. (CBS HD)
=================

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #7486 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

I didn't get a chance to see that, as I was just monitoring them out of corner of my eye while working on my response to plughplover ...

Are you sure it was HD and not SD widescreen though? For instance, all of the Outside the studio field shots I caught on the 11pm news was SD widescreen ...

Those clips were in HD, the interviews with a couple of players were amazing! I think for live shots, it will be SD widescreen for the most part, until the trucks are upgraded. But once the reporter gets back to the station and goes editing from the HDD/Tape, it is in HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

I didn't get to watch the entire 9news, but Did notice only one shot in another story and the Matarese bit, and some of the "old" weather graphics were the *only* material originating from WCPO I saw in the news report that were 4x3 .... Anyway, I thought that was pretty impressive for the first day, much along the lines of WHIO-DT Dayton has done -- although they're SD widescreen at best, including for the studio shots, and they had some AR issues(stretched 4x3 at first w/o "squeezing in" the sidebars), which they've long since worked out ....

Does WHIO-DT plan on using HD anytime soon? WCPO has been doing alot of there recent stories in atleast widescreen and I think that is why a most of their newscast in widescreen. As far as the weather graphics, WCPO and WHIO share the same package from Baron, VIPIR HD and the new HD radar screens. I think some more adjustment will be seen in the coming days. Like this morning, Good Morning Tri-State was in HD, including a scroll along the bottom, but when Good Morning America came on, it was in SD. Hopefully that will be fixed.

Alex
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post #7487 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkyardDogg View Post

Does WHIO-DT plan on using HD anytime soon?

I don't know, but I doubt it. For instance, *If* they just bought new cameras, and would need to buy new HDcams to do HD, wouldn't think they would buy all new ones anytime soon ...

AS SD goes, their Widescreen SD from the Studio and *some*(not all) from the field *does* look very good though, IMO.

Jeff
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post #7488 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 10:14 AM
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I remember reading somewhere that they had one HD cam and that was the main studio cam. Oh well.

Alex
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post #7489 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plughplover
I also set up my PC with the MDP-130 card and took some more caps;
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Will try to look at it a little more closely tomorrow
To follow up and "add" a bit to my last post on this -- Looking at these a little more closely, and assuming nothing on your end is stripping anything out, just going by what I can see from the "exporttoHTML" from TSreader ... looks to me like quite a bit of stuff is missing from the streams from TW vs. what is sent by the station, OTA. And that's just what I can tell from TSreader's exporttoHTML function ... Don't know about the EIA-708(digital captions) captions or STT, or other PSIP tables(MGT, RRT/etc) and whether they're in there via TW or not(they are there OTA) ....

For example, via TW+your Tsreader html output files compared to mine OTA -- Via TW there are no detailed program descriptions in the EIT's, they're there OTA. Service Name for KET4 and CET world seem to be missing via TW, There OTA. Oddly enough, Service Name for "Tube" OTA is "WXIX" via TW's Mux. EIT's seem to be missing completely from WCET-DT via TW. As noted earlier, lots of stuff(Info on the elementary audio/video streams mostly) is not showing up from the TVCT via TW(that goes for all program streams from WLWT-DT, WCVN-DT(KET), WXIX-DT and WCET-DT.

Most importantly, perhaps -- In your 19:07 cap, The audio/video streams from KET3 appear to be missing as well(They are not present in PID usage chart, nor are they shown in stream descriptors/etc. in PMT, for instance), as if the stream is "not" there, which, while should be the case between 8pm~12am, should not be the case when they are in SD mode(which should be the case at 19:07EDT). Looking at that, it looks like you aren't getting the streams from KET3 even when you should be, can't imagine how you could decode them.

What I also find odd is the PID address of 0x0052 for KET3 (program5) via TW's mux. The PID's for any program stream I've ever seen OTA has been 0x00[x]0 PID for the program, 0x00[x]1 for the video, 0x00[x]4 for one audio stream, and if present, 0x00[x]5 for the alternate audio stream. I wonder if that has anything to do with the Audio/video streams for KET3 not showing up in the 19:07 cap.


Attached file:

To be "comlete"+to allow you to compare these to your caps as well, I've attched a zip file to this message from around noon today with HTML output from TSreader for WLWT-DT, WCET-DT and WXIX-DT streams. Probably never reallylooked at it/paid attnetion to it before, but I don't recall the PID's being at 0x0050/51/54 and 0x0060/61/64 for the program streams, most station's have PID address of 0x0030 for their "first" program.

Do keep in mind that CET does not send "Create" OTA, just CET-HD and World, so we don't get that third stream from them that's in the mux on 85 you're getting OTA. Also, notice that the PID's/streams for WLWT's EIT's are present at time of this capture, they just are either not being implemented/recognized properly, or perhaps more likely, there is no info in them, currently.

Also, it might be helpful to explain how this works with my equipment/setup/etc. TSreader is reading the TS "directly" in real time rather than from a TSfile captured and dumped to to disk, earlier. When you're not reading a TS file as source in TSreader(which seems to be the case in your case judging from your HTML output files), and are using a input source that works with TSreader which allows you to "interfaces" directly to your "tuner" card drivers+Directshow BDA source filter -- a box in TSreader pops up when you open it that lets you tune the desired channel/frequency - such as channeel 24 for WCVN-DT, 35 for WLWT-DT/etc. If, however I use other applications to capture+dump the TS file to disk first, then read the TS file in TSreader like you are doing, everything shown in TSreader is, however exactly the same as using the ATSC BDA source filter in "real time", it's just not happening in real time.

The reason I bring that up is because something entirely different happens if I capture from Firewire port of my Sony KD34XBR960 HDTV with capDVHS or VLC or other capture software --- The sony only sends the program stream for the station it's internal ATSC(or QAM) receiver is "tuned" to, and strips everything else out ... In other words, the streams aren't decoded, but are demuxed before making it to the firewire port, and the only streams you get via firewire are the video/audio streams for the particular subchannel the sony is "tuned to", no PSIP/etc ... I wouldn't think that would be the case with any PC tuner cards(especially since most of them, like mine don't even have MPEG2 hardware decoders and don't demux or mux streams in hardware), but I don't know, so thought I should mention it ....

That's probably about all I'll have on this -- probably not, but hopefully there's something useful in there somewhere to someone regarding my posts on this ...

 

TSOTHER.ZIP 11.2353515625k . file

Jeff
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post #7490 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 10:38 AM
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At 19:59:00 KET drops KET5 and KET6 to free up bandwidth for the HD switch at 19:59:58. By the time the system completes the switch its within milliseconds of 20:00:00. Our in house time is off a little to compensate for the satellite delay of the PBS feeds.

At 00:00:00 we drop the HD go back to the 4 SD mode and then :30 later go to 6 SD mode.
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post #7491 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I do recall looking at KET3+4 (eiter with different decoders+displays or just switched quickly to KET3 after the change -- which would take a second or two) during the 8pm/12am switches+noticed that it appeared that it "happened" pretty much at the same time, but suppose I should have actually looked at KET5+6 before I said "it looks like all happens at once", earlier ... Thanks William ....

---------------------------------------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkyardDogg View Post

I remember reading somewhere that they had one HD cam and that was the main studio cam. Oh well.

I think someone who should know posted at WHIO they were all widescreen SD cameras in Dayton thread.

It is certianly all widescreen SD from WHIO-DT on air, although at first it was hard for me to tell from the anchordesk shot. As, it does look very good, especially given the lighting+set is designed to make TV look "good" anyway, and there are really no background details in that shot to examine that easily gives it away. But, it became evident when I saw that camera pan to the anchor desk the first time that it was SD ...

I do wonder how WHIO and now WCPO handle the AR issues so well in a fast paced news cast with a mix of HD, 16x9 and 4x3 SD material ...As 720p or 1080i is square pixel aspect ratio, SD widescreen is not, 4x3 SD requires the sidebars "squeezed" into the sides for proper AR when they're sending 720p/1080i signal, SD widescreen or HD does not ... And, if they don't do it right, given it's a 4x3 center cut on the analog station, some of the video can end up "distorted" there as well ....

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post #7492 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 11:22 AM
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Yes, I also noticed the lack of ket3 PMT in the 1907 cap; but if you look at the bandwidth chart at the bottom (pids 52,53,54), you can see the streams are present. The 1907 cap was only 6 min long (rather than the 7 min I usually take), so I'm guessing I just didn't catch one.

You might note the 'pmt sections' count at the bottom of the various caps; I always thought it was curious how the PAT/PMT counts were higher before 8PM.

Don't know how significant it is, but if you look at the PMT data for KET4 in HD mode:
MPEG Video: Framerate 59.94 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0
...
Frame rate: 29.97¼

Yes, in comparing your OTA to TWC, I thought it was interesting that all the KET PIDs are the same except for KET3, and yes I noted the unusual(?) '52' value.

I also note the 'Continuity errors' on the TWC 84 stream.

At this point, the only pre/post transition differences I can see in the tsreader output are the PAT referencing PMT PIDs for which there are no PMT's, and the change in PAT/PMT section counts.

I do think _something_ has changed; I've had my set tuned to 84-1 (wlwt) for about 4 hours now and still haven't had a 'random drop' yet. Will be interesting to see what happens when wlwt eit/epg info comes back (psip crc errors again?)
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post #7493 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by William Smith View Post

At 19:59:00 KET drops KET5 and KET6 to free up bandwidth for the HD switch at 19:59:58. By the time the system completes the switch its within milliseconds of 20:00:00. Our in house time is off a little to compensate for the satellite delay of the PBS feeds.

At 00:00:00 we drop the HD go back to the 4 SD mode and then :30 later go to 6 SD mode.

So the evidence is accumulating that it isn't the ket4 sd->hd transition per se that causes the initial glitch, but the ket5/6 drop.

Hmmm. So I've got a one minute window... I think tonight I'll tune to ket5 and as soon as it stops I'll retune to 85 and back to 84 (within the window) and see if the set can reinitialize with the stream in that state.
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post #7494 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by plughplover View Post

So I've got a one minute window...

What time does the problem go away? Is it at 00:00:00 when they go to 4 SD mode or is it at 01:30:00 when they go back to 6 SD?

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #7495 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 11:49 AM
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I think someone who should know posted at WHIO they were all widescreen SD cameras in Dayton thread.

It is certianly all widescreen SD from WHIO-DT on air, although at first it was hard for me to tell from the anchordesk shot. As, it does look very good, especially given the lighting+set is designed to make TV look "good" anyway, and there are really no background details in that shot to examine that easily gives it away. But, it became evident when I saw that camera pan to the anchor desk the first time that it was SD ...

I do wonder how WHIO and now WCPO handle the AR issues so well in a fast paced news cast with a mix of HD, 16x9 and 4x3 SD material ...As 720p or 1080i is square pixel aspect ratio, SD widescreen is not, 4x3 SD requires the sidebars "squeezed" into the sides for proper AR when they're sending 720p/1080i signal, SD widescreen or HD does not ... And, if they don't do it right, given it's a 4x3 center cut on the analog station, some of the video can end up "distorted" there as well ....

I know they are sending out SD widescreen, but I thought one camera was HD, but not being used as an HD cam. From my emails with WCPO, they are taking extreme care as far as AR. When it is widescreen, it will be widescreen with the center cut for analog. When it is 4x3, it will have sidebars on HD. There should not be any stretching as the analog is the center cut. I have seen the last couple of days on WCPO some stretched video, but I think that was simply rookie mistakes, WHIO did the same thing back in April.

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I've been out of town for a few weeks but I noticed that TWC no longer has CET-PBS Kids on its digital cable. Has WCET dropped this station or was it TWC that dropped it? Just wonderin'...
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post #7497 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jimp2244 View Post

What time does the problem go away? Is it at 00:00:00 when they go to 4 SD mode or is it at 01:30:00 when they go back to 6 SD?

I've only monitored the 12pm transition a couple times, but from my recollection the recovery was "exactly" when ket4 switched back to sd. However, according to William's post there is only a 30 second window on that end, so I may not have noticed the stages.
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post #7498 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by plughplover View Post

but if you look at the bandwidth chart at the bottom (pids 52,53,54), you can see the streams are present.

Oops, I had looked for those but didn't see it for some reason in your "caps", now I do -- Note that for two of them it says they are "unknown usage" ... Given the bandwidth usage, PID at address 0x0053 shows 1.91Mb/s makes sense for the video stream and 0x0054 at .2mb/s probably makes sense for an audio stream, but there's nothing in the info that seems to be telling us(or presumably your decoder) that they "belong" to KET3 ....

Quote:


The 1907 cap was only 6 min long (rather than the 7 min I usually take), so I'm guessing I just didn't catch one.

Strange, Just checked, and it takes less than 2 seconds for (presumably)all the streams/tables/etc. to show up here in TSreader for KET ... Note I say "presumably" because I can't say "ALL" of them show up within that time(such as all the PSIP related streams/etc), but it sure looks like it. But, All the program stream PID's/elementary streams surely pop up within 2 seconds or less, seems to take a little longer for all the EIT info to fill in, or for the video decode to occur in the thumbnails on RH side ...

Quote:


You might note the 'pmt sections' count at the bottom of the various caps; I always thought it was how the PAT/PMT counts were higher before 8PM.

Just a guess, Maybe because (from KET) there are more active services/streams between 12am~8pm?


Quote:


Don't know how significant it is, but if you look at the PMT data for KET4 in HD mode:
MPEG Video: Framerate 59.94 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0

Frame rate: 29.97¼

Don't know, wonder if it might have something to do with any the PBS HD channel source being 1080i, which would be 29.97fps interlaced from PBS, the rest makes sense since they are transcoding PBS HD to 720p at KET+broadcasting it at 720p .... I do know I was playing around once and reencoded a bit of HD soundstage from KET4 to WMV-HD at 1280x720 @ 23.98fps, and for the most part if I recall correctly it actually seemed to work fairly well(material originating as 1080p/24fps HD video I presume?)... I've also done that with 24fps source material from other sources with good results, but for instance, it doesn't work so well with 720p/60fps HD video, like you'd probably get during 720p HD live sports or WCPO-DT's new HD newscast ...


Quote:


I also note the 'Continuity errors' on the TWC 84 stream.

Yeah, I noticed in your channel 84 caps how many there were vs. your ch 85 caps ...In the the TSreader readmes on their website, it seems to say any great variety of things could cause continuity errors, perhaps most likely causes being a problem with the RF signal, or a problem with improperly setup/implemented multiplexers(such as At TW) ... They do also seem to say if your getting 2 or less per second you're probably "OK" ....

anyway Funny story about those here ... I had never noticed anything besides "0" continuity errors here when tuned to any local station(weak distant signals via dx are a different matter), until Saturday when I got a few from just about any stream/station I tuned too .. Well, it just so happened that Saturday, Windoze was also locking up on boot, and a couple of times after rebooting the DTV tuner card wasn't "working" either ...the problem there turned out to be this goofy case(Gateway PC) doesn't adequetely/firmly seat the PCI cards into place(I need to fix that with some "real" screws/etc), and they needed to be reseated .. Since I reseated them, I've seen no continuity errors, go figure, although that would not be something I would have thought would cause those, LOL ...

Jeff
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post #7499 of 14359 Old 08-20-2007, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post

I've been out of town for a few weeks but I noticed that TWC no longer has CET-PBS Kids on its digital cable. Has WCET dropped this station or was it TWC that dropped it? Just wonderin'...

Scroll down(about 1/2 way down the page, currently) to the "CET Adds New PBS World Channel" at Kieswetter's blog here:

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/

It says PBS Kids is no longer 24/7 on TWC, and that it's sharing TWC digital channel 931 with instructional programming, with PBS Kids airing 3:30pm~8am, I suppose so all the kids can watch cartoons not only in the afternoons, but also at 3 in the morning ....

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Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

Oops, I had looked for those but didn't see it for some reason in your "caps", now I do -- Note that for two of them it says they are "unknown usage" ... Given the bandwidth usage, PID at address 0x0053 shows 1.91Mb/s makes sense for the video stream and 0x0054 at .2mb/s probably makes sense for an audio stream, but there's nothing in the info that seems to be telling us(or presumably your decoder) that they "belong" to KET3 ....

Strange, Just checked, and it takes less than 2 seconds for (presumably)all the streams/tables/etc. to show up here in TSreader for KET ... Note I say "presumably" because I can't say "ALL" of them show up within that time(such as all the PSIP related streams/etc), but it sure looks like it. But, All the program stream PID's/elementary streams surely pop up within 2 seconds or less, seems to take a little longer for all the EIT info to fill in, or for the video decode to occur in the thumbnails on RH side ...

Not the case here; I'm taking caps to disk then post-processing and tsreader definitely has to work it's way through the file for a while before it works out what all is in the stream. And I've seen this happen before, which is why I 'settled on' 7 min caps; seemed to take that much data before I could be reasonably certain I'd get 'enough' for tsreader to fully analyze the data.

I thought it was odd that it took 7 minutes of data, but just assumed 'that's the way it is'. Perhaps this is related to the very long 'sync up' times (minutes) I have with twc 84 and my AccessDTV card. I don't see this with the LG TV (except for a certain 4 hour block) or the MDP-130 card.

(Caveat: I ought to hook up and retest with the AccessDTV card, as I haven't actually tried it in months)
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