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post #9451 of 14359 Old 05-30-2008, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleury64 View Post

I just moved to the Cincy area (Florence, KY) and I'm also new to HDTV/digital TV. I'm trying to learn form other threads, but some things have me a bit confused, especially QAM. If anyone can explain that one or point to an explination "for dummies", I'd appreciate it.

I'm getting an HDTV very soon. I was planning to get satellite, but I won't be home enough the really benefit, I decided to stick with OTA and just get basic cable (no set top box). So what I'm wondering is does the basic cable also show the local channels in HD/digital, or do I need an antenna to get those as well in this area?

Just for reference in case it helps, I will soon have a Mitsubishi 65736 DLP TV, an Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and probably a MAc Mini HTPC with EyeTV. I'm just trying to get the most out of the OTA and cable (as long as it lasts)

QAM is how digital TV is sent on cable systems. Most will send the local channels "in the clear" (unscrambled). When I do a channel scan on my hdtv, I get several hundred channels, but most are scrambled so I get no picture and usually somewhat distorted audio. But the local channels come in fine in HD.
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post #9452 of 14359 Old 05-30-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveA28 View Post

QAM is how digital TV is sent on cable systems. Most will send the local channels "in the clear" (unscrambled). When I do a channel scan on my hdtv, I get several hundred channels, but most are scrambled so I get no picture and usually somewhat distorted audio. But the local channels come in fine in HD.

So does that mean I don't have to bother getting and digital antenna and toggling between it and the cable to get the local HD channels? That would be great, and save me money spent on an antenna!

I was told cable/satellite providers only offer local channels in HD if you pay for premium HD service. I thought that was odd, not to mention illegal to charge for something that is free in the air. But my mother recently got DirectTV and said she cannot get the local stations in HD through DirecTV unless she buys a premium package. So I just want to be sure I will get local channel programming in HD through my Insight basic cable.
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post #9453 of 14359 Old 05-30-2008, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleury64 View Post

I just want to be sure I will get local channel programming in HD through my Insight basic cable.

I have Insight's basic channel package ($13.25 a month plus taxes) and I can tell you for sure that you will get most of the local HD stations if your TV has a QAM tuner. The Insight basic package includes 25 analog channels and all of the digital HD channels except WSTR (OTA ch 64.1). Insight has been unable to come to an agreement with Sinclair (WSTR's owner) to carry the HD feed. Some of the local subchannels are carried on the analog tier instead of the digital tier (for example, the CW, OTA 12.2 is carried on analog channel 25).

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post #9454 of 14359 Old 05-31-2008, 08:29 AM
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^^ thanks for the info! Now I just need to figure out if the TV I ordered has a QAM tuner.
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post #9455 of 14359 Old 05-31-2008, 03:45 PM
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I live in Union and have recently (in last three weeks) had problems picking up 5-1 and 48-1 and their side band channels. The signal drops out constantly. Real bad on my Phillips LCD, and to a lesser extend on a Vizio LCD upstairs. It makes 5-1 unwatchable.

I'd been using a small Chinese made bow-tie type outside antenna with built in amp. on my roof for about 5 years to get HD OTA without any problems. reception had been good for last two years up until a couple of weeks ago.

I went out an bought a new 20 element UHF/VHF Antenna (looks just like a Channel Master 3016). Reception is even better now, my analog 5,9,12,19 look PERFECT, which wasn't the case before.

Yet I still have same drop-outs!!! The phillips has a strength meter and shows both channels having good strength. I know 5-1 and 48-1 reside on analog channels 35 and 34 respectively. Am I getting some kind of cross interference between the two or some external radio interference? I've tried turning off every elec. device in house (A/C, fridge, computer, etc) and can't find anything causing it.

Any ideas? or maybe someone else is having same problem and just not said much about it.
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post #9456 of 14359 Old 05-31-2008, 04:13 PM
 
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Signal quality is as important as signal strength...You may have a bad fitting or splitter...Possibly your cable run is bad...Your antenna may not be high enough...someone may have built a house...a tree limb may have grown out...etc...

As you can see there are many different possibilities causing your issues...Hard to say without knowing more...
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post #9457 of 14359 Old 05-31-2008, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Signal quality is as important as signal strength...You may have a bad fitting or splitter...Possibly your cable run is bad...Your antenna may not be high enough...someone may have built a house...a tree limb may have grown out...etc...

As you can see there are many different possibilities causing your issues...Hard to say without knowing more...

Thanks for the quick response. I think you are on to something. I did retighten some of my connections, it didn't fix this problem but it sure wasn't helping.

Biggest problem is my antenna is only about five feet above my single level range home, which is surrounded by trees. The trees have filled in during the last month. I'd say I have twice the leaves this year as in the past, caterpillars almost killed them last year leaving my trees bare, while this year everything is flourishing.

So far, the temporarily solution has been to aim my antenna further north about ten degrees more to the left than normal, not directly where 5-1 and 48-1 transmit. They appear from tvfool and antennaweb to be coming from same location, and their signals must be bleeding into each other when I try to aim my antenna directly at their transmitter.

By offsetting my antenna, I can still pick up 5-1 without drop-outs as it is a much stronger signal and 48-1 is completely gone. I don't care about 48-1, but there seems to be a side affect of 64.1 disappearing also.

Oh well, I've got 5-1 back, I just need to figure out before college football/bb season how to get 64-1 working again. I'll probably focus on my network of splitters and combiners in my basement and make sure I'm not having a small signal drop somewhere else.
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post #9458 of 14359 Old 06-01-2008, 06:55 AM
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I was over my parents the other night & brought a CECB for a guest bedroom TV. It picked up all Cincy channels (plus 2 Dayton) except for channel 9. Now for them it isn't an issue since their other 3 TVs are conected to sat. It got me thinking though about those who rely solely on OTA. Come Feb 2009 there are going to be a LOT of people with very simple setups who aren't going to pick up a major channel. That seems like a problem to me for any major station using VHF.

P.S. And from what I understand 12 will also be going VHF on 2/19/09. A roof top solves all problems but I KNOW there will be a lot of lower income households that don't have that as an option. This IS going to be an issue.
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post #9459 of 14359 Old 06-01-2008, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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There are Dayton and Cincinnati analog stations transmitting on VHF 2,5,7,9,12. It's been that way for a long time.

Most analog OTA viewers in this area should already be using a proper VHF/UHF antenna setup ( Including "rabbit ears" for indoors), so for the most part it should pretty much be a non-issue except for folks new to OTA who have unwisely purchased UHF only antennnas ...

But, various sorts of interference from household appliances (or faulty vehicle/lawn mower/etc. ignition systems) may cause "dropouts" of VHF digital stations vs. putting static/sparkles on screen with VHF analog, and the latter may be perceived by some as less annoying than "dropouts" ..... While this sort of interference can sometimes cause problems on UHF (especially if the desired signal is weak) as well, it's stronger on VHF frequencies ....

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post #9460 of 14359 Old 06-02-2008, 07:09 AM
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Tropo June 1, 2008

WKZT 23 from Elizabethtown, KY (over 2 hrs away) non digital

Someting religious on 21. Don't know the call letters or where its comming from.
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post #9461 of 14359 Old 06-02-2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robmadden1 View Post

Tropo June 1, 2008

WKZT 23 from Elizabethtown, KY (over 2 hrs away) non digital

Someting religious on 21. Don't know the call letters or where its comming from.

Probably WBNA from Louisville.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #9462 of 14359 Old 06-02-2008, 01:55 PM
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I've got all my channels back, 5-1,48-1,64-1. Splicer010 was right. I ended up replacing some of the cheap RG-59 patch cables in my combiner/splitter system where everything comes into the house. I backfeed two DN Sat. boxes into the main system, and then re split them back out. After replacing the cheap patch cables with some custom crimped RG-6 in as short of pieces as possible, all my channels are back. I thnk the trees growing in pushed my marginal setup beyond it's limits.

Sometimes it helps for someone tell me to check the obvious.

Well I may use my small external bow-time antenna to see what I can get out of Lexington. It had a longer range then the new one i bought for UHF, but didn't have the ability to pick up everything clearly on all the Cinc. channels without aiming it 5 degrees between different signals.
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post #9463 of 14359 Old 06-02-2008, 02:36 PM
 
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Glad I could be of some help...
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post #9464 of 14359 Old 06-02-2008, 07:27 PM
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I just saw this info on Kiesewetter's Blog

http://beta.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...2411d82ad3a991

Transmitters on the WLWT-TV's 960-foot tower on Chickasaw Street, overlooking downtown from University Heights, must be shut down so the flashing light atop the tower can be replaced. Lightning struck the fixture with the light that flashes red at night, and a white strobe during the day.

Channel 5 will broadcast Jay Leno, Conan O'Brien and other overnight shows in analog tonight from 500 feet up the tower. Channel 5's digital signal, CET and WGUC-FM will resume broadcasting sometime 5-7 a.m. Tuesday, says Paul Nowakowski, Channel 5 chief engineer.

A four-person crew will climb the tower to make the repairs. If they don't complete the job by Tuesday morning, another climb -- and another interruption in broadcast service -- will be scheduled, he says.

One more thing: Time Warner customers will not see any disruption in service. Channels 5 and 48 provide a direct feed to Time Warner. Insight gets TV feeds from CET and Channel 5 over-the-air.

-----------
Robert
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post #9465 of 14359 Old 06-03-2008, 03:34 AM
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^^ Thankfully they waited until the end of the hockey game, or does D* get a fiber feed as well, I forget. I did notice that as soon as the game was over their broadcast ended.

My posts are my own opinions and suggestions and do not represent those of my employer or other staff members.
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post #9466 of 14359 Old 06-03-2008, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

There are Dayton and Cincinnati analog stations transmitting on VHF 2,5,7,9,12. It's been that way for a long time.

Yes but;
1. VHF analog doesn't seem to be as problematic as VHF digital
2. Most accept a weak analog signal as long as they can still see some of the picture. Pixilation or a complete loss of signal is going to be seen as a step back (you alluded to this in another part of your post).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

Most analog OTA viewers in this area should already be using a proper VHF/UHF antenna setup ( Including "rabbit ears" for indoors), so for the most part it should pretty much be a non-issue except for folks new to OTA who have unwisely purchased UHF only antennnas ...

True, and I might be over exaggerating, but I'd bet the number not using a rooftop is more than you think (i.e. lower income households). In addition, how many of those households will effectively be reduced to one TV for watching the digital VHF stations? Many a bedroom TV is going to be isolated to UHF only viewing.
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post #9467 of 14359 Old 06-03-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleury64 View Post

I will soon have a Mitsubishi 65736 DLP TV, an Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and probably a MAc Mini HTPC with EyeTV. I'm just trying to get the most out of the OTA and cable (as long as it lasts)

Have you looked into SageTV for your HTPC setup? They have an HD Extender that is very nice. You could get a few tuners for your HTPC (personally I recommend the HD Homerun by SiliconDust, as it is a networked tuner box and thus can be located close to your cable entry or antennas and not suffer from coax-length-related signal loss), and then put an HD Extender at the HDTV. I believe SageTV is the only company making a basically plug-and-play HTPC Extender that does HD.

Not trying to post some ad or anything, just wanted to make sure you knew about the HD Extenders. I have been very, very pleased with mine (I'm OTA only, with two HD Homeruns and antennas in my attic).
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post #9468 of 14359 Old 06-04-2008, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wish View Post

True, and I might be over exaggerating, but I'd bet the number not using a rooftop is more than you think (i.e. lower income households).

I can receive WCPO digital just fine here from 32 miles with indoor rabbit ears. The analog 9 signal with that setup is not something I'd call acceptable, except perhaps for occasional viewing of say the news on a small TV.

Quote:


In addition, how many of those households will effectively be reduced to one TV for watching the digital VHF stations? Many a bedroom TV is going to be isolated to UHF only viewing.

VHF (VHF/UHF) antennas can(and should) be hooked to "bedroom TV's" as well.

Quote:


1. VHF analog doesn't seem to be as problematic as VHF digital

Doesn't seem that way to me, one possible exception being the "impulse noise" issue(lightning is natural source of it, electric motors for example are one manmade source) for VHF -- which it seems can be quite problematical at times even on VHF-HI.

Otherwise, Seems about the same, just as it was designed to be ....

Quote:


2. Most accept a weak analog signal as long as they can still see some of the picture. Pixilation or a complete loss of signal is going to be seen as a step back (you alluded to this in another part of your post).

Noone ever said that a very snowy or ghosty or interference laden analog signal would be replaced by perfect digital reception. Users who are "ok" with a crappy analog signal who can't receive the digital station will have to do without, adjust/move antenna away from sources of interference, or get a better antenna system.

There will be some who have poor analog reception and will get perfect digital reception(including on VHF), or may get some occasional dropouts but still "percieve" digital as better than poor analog reception and there will be some "living with" very poor analog reception which will need to get a better antenna setup for digital.

There are also folks, such as in terrain obstructed locations whom get better VHF reception than UHF, the same is true for digital as it is for analog ....

I think The issue you are addressing is fundamentally one of analog vs. digital, not "VHF vs UHF".

With analog, you can "see" reception impariments and what is causing them on screen, and can often intuitively adjust antenna for best results/best picture. But with digital, without the use of expensive test equipment, one often does not know what is going on. In that regard, certianly I agree analog is "better" than digital.

Jeff
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post #9469 of 14359 Old 06-04-2008, 09:48 PM
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At 12:45am 14 and 19 digital side went out. Are they working on the tower?
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post #9470 of 14359 Old 06-04-2008, 10:57 PM
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19 is back as of 1:57am
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post #9471 of 14359 Old 06-05-2008, 04:29 AM
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In case anyone is interested, there is a fairly reliable rumor that NBC Universal is going to buy The Weather Channel. I wonder what this means for 5-2 WeatherPlus...

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #9472 of 14359 Old 06-05-2008, 05:24 AM
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What is the best way to split my OTA signal. Currently, it runs from my attenna directly to my D* HR20 box. I would like to split it and have a line running to both the HR20 and my TV. Found out that while you can watch OTA when the sat goes out, you can't after a power outage if the box can't see the sat first.
Is one splitter better than another, what kind of ratings should I look for.

Thanks
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post #9473 of 14359 Old 06-05-2008, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet_bill View Post

What is the best way to split my OTA signal.

Is one splitter better than another, what kind of ratings should I look for.

Thanks

Bill,

Depending on the signal you are getting from your antenna you may need a RF distribution amp instead of a splitter. I would try a splitter first and if you are missing any OTA channels on your satellite receiver or TV get a distribution amp.

Just about any splitter should work as long as it is rated from 54 Mhz to 550 Mhz (or higher).

Bill R
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post #9474 of 14359 Old 06-05-2008, 06:00 PM
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Hi everyone. This is the first time I post. I bought a Vizio 26" HDTV on May 16th (Model VW26L). I am tuning via a regular antenna to view over-the-air transmissions. Since I bought the TV, I have been having problems with the TV freezing up completely (to the point that the only option is to unplug the TV from the outlet) when viewing some HDTV channels. I live in the Cincinnati area (Fort Wright, near Park Hills), and as of now, the problem has happened when viewing channel 19.1, the FOX affiliate, using the antenna. It can happen within a few minutes or up to 30-45 minutes of tuning to the channel.

The person in the help line told me that it would be a signal issue, and that there was nothing that could be done about it. But I don't think a signal can make a TV "crash" this way. When it happened, the signal was not particularly strong, but the digital channel was viewable.

Do you know of this problem occurring with Vizio TV's or other TV's? I'm trying to figure out if it is my set or if it is truly a signal issue. Has anyone had this problem.

The other issue I have is with the ABC feed WCPO. It has lip sync problems, which are specially strong on live, national shows (such as morning shows or sports). Also, it seems that the updating of the image is not as fluid, which turns up as some sort of jitter when panning. You can also see it with scrolling banners at the bottom of the screen. Is this also a known issue or could it be the TV?

My TV is 720p resolution, but other than ABC, other 1080i channels come up great.

I know it was a lengthy post, but I appreciate any insight into this!

Thanks!
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post #9475 of 14359 Old 06-05-2008, 06:05 PM
 
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Typical of a signal issue...Never heard of the TV locking up because of that though...
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post #9476 of 14359 Old 06-05-2008, 06:15 PM
 
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YEAH BABY!!!

I can now get my QAM channels...specifically KET and its sub channels...with the audio matching the video!!! No more WLWT audio on every 105 channel realm stations!!!

I MUST say THANKYOU to the people that saw to it that the correction was made...namely William and I pressume his buddy @ Time Warner!!! Hats off to you guys!!! I haven't checked to see if the channel changing still occurs just before 8PM since this discovery...The last time I noticed it was a couple nights ago...I think...when I got the changes about 4 times...Was really getting worse...But even if it still does it...I can live with it as long as I can still get all my channels...

This goes to show what I thought was happening...WAS happening and it wasn't a 'flaw' or defective unit I had...LG LST3510a...it was either on KET's or TW's side...or both...I would LOVE to know what the issue was...specifically...

Again...THANKYOU William and TW!!!
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post #9477 of 14359 Old 06-05-2008, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimp2244 View Post

In case anyone is interested, there is a fairly reliable rumor that NBC Universal is going to buy The Weather Channel. I wonder what this means for 5-2 WeatherPlus...

Probably that WeatherPlus will be disbanded, and The Weather Channel SD will get put onto 5-2. I imagine that Local on the 8's will have WLWT meteorologists and radar images, and that a cable subscription would become a requirement for "proper" The Weather Channel HD (with LOT8's updates from WLWT sources).
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post #9478 of 14359 Old 06-05-2008, 08:35 PM
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I got tired of my fm antenna I used on my tv so I went out and spent 54 bucks for a new antenna at radio shack. This is the one I got: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

I get a hell of a lot better reseption on channel 19.1 and 19.12 now then I did before Its bettwen 86 and 90 now. Before it would be in the 60 to low 80's never the same every day now it seems to be steady at 87-88.

On 43.1-.5 I am now getting the channel with a signal strength of 54-61. I usally never got it this good with the old fm antenna.
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post #9479 of 14359 Old 06-06-2008, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvillalvag View Post

Hi everyone. This is the first time I post. I bought a Vizio 26" HDTV on May 16th (Model VW26L). I am tuning via a regular antenna to view over-the-air transmissions. Since I bought the TV, I have been having problems with the TV freezing up completely (to the point that the only option is to unplug the TV from the outlet) when viewing some HDTV channels. I live in the Cincinnati area (Fort Wright, near Park Hills), and as of now, the problem has happened when viewing channel 19.1, the FOX affiliate, using the antenna. It can happen within a few minutes or up to 30-45 minutes of tuning to the channel.

The person in the help line told me that it would be a signal issue, and that there was nothing that could be done about it. But I don't think a signal can make a TV "crash" this way. When it happened, the signal was not particularly strong, but the digital channel was viewable.

Do you know of this problem occurring with Vizio TV's or other TV's? I'm trying to figure out if it is my set or if it is truly a signal issue. Has anyone had this problem.

The other issue I have is with the ABC feed WCPO. It has lip sync problems, which are specially strong on live, national shows (such as morning shows or sports). Also, it seems that the updating of the image is not as fluid, which turns up as some sort of jitter when panning. You can also see it with scrolling banners at the bottom of the screen. Is this also a known issue or could it be the TV?

My TV is 720p resolution, but other than ABC, other 1080i channels come up great.

I know it was a lengthy post, but I appreciate any insight into this!

Thanks!

This sounds like an issue with your TV. I would push Vizio harder on this. There is no reason that your TV should freeze/lock up like that. If you were just talking about the picture freezing that would be one thing, but it sounds like once this happens you aren't even able to change the channel.

Also, I have not seen any lip sync (or audio/video sync) issues on WCPO-DT, or the jitter you describe. This also sounds like an issue with your TV. I often see lip sync issues on WPTO-DT and WPTD-DT but those are originating at the station.

You might try searching the AVS forum on HDTV Reception Hardware or HDTV Displays to see if you can find anyone with related issues. Either way, this is almost definitely a problem with the TV and you should push Vizio to resolve the problem before it is too late to return the set, and if they are unable to help you, I would return the set and get a different brand.

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #9480 of 14359 Old 06-07-2008, 11:45 AM
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Thanks for the response... I am curious about the lip sync problems, since you say you have not seen it in the WCPO transmissions... Could antenna signal strength be an issue? I was considering buying an amplified antenna because signal strength was weak on some channels... Could that help with WCPO?

The lip sync problem seems odd to be because it mostly occurs on 9.1 and slightly on 64.1... but if it is the channel signal strength, that could indicate a possible solution.

I will continue asking Vizio anyway.
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