Cincinnati, OH - HDTV - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Cincinnati, OH - HDTV
Paul210's Avatar Paul210 02:47 PM 10-24-2003
That's the million dollar question! Most of us here think they're useless, especially since they take away bandwidth and affect pq of the main channel.

DrDon's Avatar DrDon 03:03 PM 10-24-2003
As far as Cincinnati goes, WCPO-DT's "weather network" is distributed to cable systems via 9-2. I don't know the specifics of the deal, but on Insight channel 71, we get commercials while 9-2 is showing promos. So, there's a financial arrangement, there.

WLWT-DT's 5-2, as mentioned earlier in the thread, was being used just to pump the radar to Tall Stacks. As is often the case, they won't think to turn it off until someone mentions it. Or they might like the idea of being able to bring it up anywhere, anytime in the field. But, as Paul said, it's all pretty much a waste of bandwidth. But, to the stations, it's still in the "toy" stage.

Nitewatchman's Avatar Nitewatchman 11:04 AM 10-25-2003
Hey, What do you know, WKEF-DT is ahead of WLWT-DT on the "HD Curve" For Breeder's cup ..... We'll see how long it takes for WLWT-DT to switch to HD feed ...

Update: WLWT-DT had HD by 1:20pm -- Can't really see any difference between WKEF/WLWT, but I suspect Motion artifacts(which aren't too bad) would be gone if either would drop their SD sub+allocate full bandwidth to HD ....
William Smith's Avatar William Smith 05:53 PM 10-25-2003

Originally posted by str1der
Well I think it's just a matter of the aiming. I adjusted it a little and I now get WKRC fine. Only problem is now Fox is cutting in and out now. I guess I have a little more fine tuning to do . Thanks again guys. I do have another question though. What are the secondary channels for the OTA stations for?

See KET's web site for a description of sub channels..

nbourbaki's Avatar nbourbaki 01:53 PM 10-26-2003

Originally posted by DAS1414
I live in the Cincinnati and I recently picked up a Pioneer 3510 HD cable box from TWC and bought a DVI cable. I have a Sony XBR television with an input specifically for the DVI high def viewing. I hooked it all up, switched to a hi def channel, and I get nothing but a black screen when my TV input is switched to the DVI one. I have no problems getting a picture when I source the component video or S-video from the box. I contacted TWC and the person I talked to was no help whatsoever so hopefully someone can give me hand. I guess my first question is whether or not TWC Cincinnati even supports the DVI output on their cable box. I have skimmed through a few forums and have gathered that perhaps TWC has not enabled this feature on their boxes... is this true? Also if they do support the DVI output does TWC have to do something with box to make it work or is there a setting that I have to change on cable box. I thought I read somewhere that the user could change the output on the cable box (ie 420p, 720p, 1080i) and if so how?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Take a look at the following thread:
hugenbdd's Avatar hugenbdd 07:13 AM 10-27-2003
Just wanted to let everyone know.
But last night American Dreams (I know, I know, the wife watch's it) was not in HD. Well, I told her if she wanted to see it in HD to call. She did, and BINGO, 5 minutes later it was in HD. Looks like actually calling to let them know may be worth it in the future. This is the first we have ever called about it, so I may now do it in the future! Of course, only if their isn't a weather bug up.

DrDon's Avatar DrDon 09:18 AM 10-27-2003
My wife actually called WXIX when the pregame show was in weirdscreen without any prompting from me. And, within two minutes, it was fixed. All she had to say was, "You need to fix the picture." The person who answered the phone said, "You must be watching in HD. I'll go tell them." I do think they respond better to women.

Nitewatchman's Avatar Nitewatchman 10:50 AM 10-28-2003
Noticed "Frampton in Detroit" is on CET-HD's HD schedule tonight at 9pm, for those who might be interested and may have missed the listing. Also, per their Nov. HD schedule, looks like they are perhaps expanding their HD schedule just a tad:

Don't know if it was a "mistake" or what, but I also noticed a couple of nights last week when WCET-DT had HD, I thought the HD looked better than "usual", and, the SD subs that are left up during HD looked to be at a lower bitrate than normal. 48-2 especially was a screenful o' macroblocks when things got a little "active", it's better it happen on the SD subs than the HD subs IMO, especially when it's just a SD simulcast of the same HD programming on 48-1 ...
hpm123's Avatar hpm123 05:17 PM 10-28-2003
Thought I was posting this in the "Cincinnati" thread, so will do so now. Thanks Jeff (Nitewatchman) for the response. Have posted your response at the end of my thread -

Hello folks - new owner of a HLN5065 tv, and as I recall standing in the chekcout line thinking I must be some kind of idiot to drop $4k on a TV, everytime I turn that thing on, I am amazed at the picture I see. Thank God for 2 years, same as cash.

Anyway, I'm trying to understand why a football game I watch in HD on CBS on the WKRC feed has, what I think is called "compression artifacts", galore..and the MNF game I watch on ABC is an absolutely stunning picture.

Is it the fact that the CBS game is transmitted in 1080i format, and the MNF game is in 720p, and there is just that much difference in PQ between these 2 formats? Or does it have something to do with not enough bandwidth being allocated by WKRC to the CBS Sunday football game, and the ABC station is providing ample b/w for a quality HD picture on the MNF game. Still a newbie on this HD stuff and trying to determine why the CBS pq is really poor vs. the MNF pq - thanks all -

Nitewatchman resonse:

WKRC-DT(1080i CBS HD) is allocating 15mb/s to CBS HD instead of the full amount possible, according to one of their engineers. I believe they use the rest of their digital stations' bandwidth for Datacasting, specifically the "Webhopper" internet acceleration service. This is likely why compression artifacts are a problem for them during demanding HD source material such as NFL football, those of us who have seen the Columbus CBS HD station, which gives all their available bandwidth to HD have noticed that Compression artifacts aren't a problem from the Columbus station.

Oh, BTW, you should be seeing the same quality via TWC as we OTA viewers see.

Concerning WCPO-DT, they multicast a SD weather subchannel, but since they are doing 720p HD, their HD can get by with a little less bandwidth.

You can find more info on this and other local Cincinnati issues in the Cincinnati Thread, which is here :
hpm123's Avatar hpm123 01:47 PM 11-01-2003
[quote]Originally posted by DrDon
[b]While we're near the top of the thread, here's a handy reference of phone numbers you can call when someone misses an HD switch. Be nice and ask them to pass the message to the control room. Some will connect you, but most all of them will pass the message.

WXIX-DT 19/29 Assignment Desk 513-421-0119
WCPO-DT 9/10 Newsroom 513-852-4071*
WKRC-DT 12/31 Newsroom 513-421-3820

Dr Don - thanks for the info. Was just trying to use the WKRC phone# for the first time to see if they missed the HD switch for the 11/1/03 CBS Fla-Ga football game, and the 421-3820 is connecting to a modem at their site. Not sure if they've changed #'s recently. Will give the phone book a try - Thxc
hpm123's Avatar hpm123 01:56 PM 11-01-2003
Well, I called the local CBS affiliate in Cincinnati and they stated that the Fla-GA football game will not switch to HD until 4:30pm EST. Any of the pro's on this forum know why this would happen like this? I think I"ll go mow the grass and come back for the 2nd half.

BTW, the WKRC Newsroom phone# is 513-763-5422.
hpm123's Avatar hpm123 02:04 PM 11-01-2003
Didn't ask why this game wouldn't go HD until 4:30 on my first call, so called them back and they said it's a local problem in the control room and they're projecting it to be fixed by 4:30pm. The person I spoke to was nice and apologized for the tech difficulty -
DrDon's Avatar DrDon 02:25 PM 11-01-2003
The response I got was that "it's on our log that the 4:30 game is the game that's in HD." I mentioned that there IS no different 4:30 game and was told, "Well, we go by what's on the log and the log says to switch at 4:30."

In 4 minutes, we'll know

hpm123's Avatar hpm123 07:22 AM 11-02-2003
That must have been it, as the first time I called they said rather assuredly, that the game wouldn't switch till 4:30. After I hung up I decided to call back to ask why an already active game would switch halfway through the game, and they said someone else had just called (musta been the Dr. calling) and she then said they were having tech difficulties. I don't recall what time the switch did occur, but it moved to HD at some point - Thanks Doc -
DrDon's Avatar DrDon 08:34 AM 11-02-2003
It was right about 4:30, coming out of a commercial break. About ten minutes later, they flipped back to SD for a couple of minutes, but were back in HD after the commercial break that followed that. Obviously, those union people don't vary from the script, even if the script is an hour off.

On another matter, what's up with WCET's time coding? All of my VCRs are slaved to WCET's clock and they're an hour off, this morning. This is the second or third time, recently, where I've noticed all of my VCRs with some time other than the present. The only one with the correct time on it is the one I inadvertantly left on all night.

Nitewatchman's Avatar Nitewatchman 08:52 AM 11-02-2003

That's odd on WCET timeset -- Thanks for the headsup ... I don't look at the clock on the VCR's very often though so I hope it doesn't mess up when I've got something set to record!I use them too, and it was OK here, just did a "forced" auto time set at 10:40am, and it worked OK.
jneiheisel's Avatar jneiheisel 08:14 AM 11-03-2003
Hello -

I just moved this weekend (I'm still sore) and I previously had Directv and an OTA antenna, so I got pretty much all the HDTV programming I wanted. I am in an apartment temporarily and cannot have a Drirectv installed and don't want to fool with an OTA antenna because we'll only be there for a few months. I am considering Insight cable for HDTV programming. Does anyone know what channels Insight offers in HDTV; their rep. said that all the locals are available, but that's not what their website says. Anyone have the real scoop?

Also, does anyone know if Insight is offering or will offer soon a PVR. I really miss my Tivo?


Nitewatchman's Avatar Nitewatchman 09:29 AM 11-03-2003

I believe the info you're looking for is in Who1zep's Insight info post on pg 3 of this thread, Here :
gordonmenninger's Avatar gordonmenninger 09:31 AM 11-03-2003
Bengals Game in 4:3

Did anyone watch the Bengals game in HD yesterday? I am using an antenna to get HD via my htpc (MyHD card), and the game was broadcast in 1080i, but only in 4:3, even though my HD tuner said that the signal was "1080x720, 16:9. Why is that?
BTW, other ota channels were shown in 16:9, just not the bengals game.

thanks for your help
DrDon's Avatar DrDon 10:34 AM 11-03-2003
The Colts game was the only CBS game in HD, yesterday. Your hdpc card will show 1080i because, when not showing a true HD program on their main channels, the local stations upconvert 480i material to whatever format their transmitter spits out. For WKRC, WLWT and WXIX, that's 1080i. WCPO is 720p. WSTR's transmitter is set for 480i, so there is no upconverting.

Basically, if you see 4:3, it's not HD, but upconverted SD.

The HDTV Programming page is pretty good about keeping you up to date on what programs and live events are in HD. See the sticky topics at the top of that forum.

JunkyardDogg's Avatar JunkyardDogg 01:29 PM 11-03-2003
Hi, I am a new member of the AVS Forum, and receive all of the Cincinnati and most of Dayton Digital Stations using a very large antenna in my home here in West Chester. I have been reading for a while that WXIX is broadcasting in 1080i, however, my television is showing it as a SD16:9 signal. Also is WCPO broadcasting in 1080i or 720p, as I know that they were 1080i. Any updates would help, as I do notice a difference in WDTN and WCPO, WDTN seems to be softer. Also if anyone knows someone who is ISF, please tell me, I tweaked a lot, but I am worried about adjusting focus on my CRTs.
DrDon's Avatar DrDon 01:38 PM 11-03-2003
Welcome to AVS. Good to have you here.

If you'll read the post prior to yours, you'll see that most of the Cincinnati DT stations TRANSMIT in 1080i. WHIO and WKEF in Dayton, do too. WCPO and WDTN transmit in 720p. WCPO used to upconvert to 1080i, but they quit doing that, opting to show ABC-HD programming natively. Plus, it's a little easier to have a subchannel with 720p as 1080i. You won't see quite as many artifacts during HD programming.

WXIX transmits a 1080i signal, but Fox doesn't offer any 1080i material. All of the "Fox Widescreen" programs are sent from the network in 480p, but upconverted by WXIX to 1080i. Next year, Fox will begin originating some HD programming, but in 720p. No word from WXIX on how they plan to handle it.

Hope that helps

JunkyardDogg's Avatar JunkyardDogg 02:16 PM 11-03-2003
Thanks Doc, I knew that WXIX broadcast in 1080i, but my mits tells me SD16:9, oh well, coming from Eastern Iowa, NBC and ABC OTA, I love all the new channels. CBS I find the most rewarding, even with some macro blocking. Also, where are some higher end home theater stores, not Best Buy or Circuit City, but handle some higher end sets? Any help would be great.
DrDon's Avatar DrDon 02:19 PM 11-03-2003
Can't help you much in West Chester. Here in N KY, HH Gregg, BB, CC and Sears is about all we have. That I know of.

jkeane's Avatar jkeane 02:48 PM 11-03-2003
There are two excellent sources in Montgomery--Audible Elegance is a Pioneer Elite dealer and Alamo Electronics. Audible Elegance is in downtown Montgomery in the historic district and Alamo is just north of there across from Montgomery Elementary school. Also, Unique Home Systems is the Fujitsu dealer (they are in Deer Park) and Sound Waves is located on Kemper Road just west of Chester.
jneiheisel's Avatar jneiheisel 02:52 PM 11-03-2003
Jeff -

Thanks for the information. It was just what I needed to know.

ClarkeR's Avatar ClarkeR 03:48 PM 11-03-2003
Audible Elegance has a web site and a new location in Florence next to the Wildwood Inn.
DrDon's Avatar DrDon 03:58 PM 11-03-2003

Originally posted by ClarkeR
... next to the Wildwood Inn.

Known for an "audible elegance" all its own .

Nitewatchman's Avatar Nitewatchman 12:29 PM 11-06-2003
Couple of things ..

#1). Hey, I saw Doc and Amanda on TV last night(B-105 spot on WKRC) -- Looked good!

#2) I noticed that new WPTO-DT 28 (ThinkDTV 14 - CP MOD for WXIX Tower) program listings+associated TWC Dayton Channel designations are currently showing up on ThinkTV's website(near bottom) :

Presently, I'm just seeing listings for SD -- Simulcast of analog 14 as well a SD "learning channel" ...

They aren't on the air yet, and I Haven't heard anything new on WPTO-DT recently - Latest info that I had seen anywhere is from early September, when they basically told FCC in the exhibit attached to their latest CP extension app(If granted and used, it would be an extension until 5/04) that at that time, they were planning on trying to be on air by January -- This most current CP extension app is still shown on FCC site as "accepted for filing"(not shown as granted yet) and their current CP extension app expires on 11/9/03 ...

Just speculation of course, but since they have listings for it(seperate from the ThinkDTV14 subchannel listing for WPTD-DT) up on their site now, maybe we'll see them on air before too long. Perhaps Charles at ThinkTV can jump in and give us a quick update ...
DrDon's Avatar DrDon 12:36 PM 11-06-2003

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
#1). Hey, I saw Doc and Amanda on TV last night(B-105 spot on WKRC) -- Looked good!

It's all special effects. I'd like to thank George Lucas' "Industrial Light and Magic" for making me look that good. Amanda looks like that all of the time.

But thanks!

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