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post #12421 of 14378 Old 01-06-2010, 10:30 AM
 
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I rescaned even though I was having no problems and a strong signal. Now I get nothing...



















I kid I kid! No change, no difference. Happy New Year all!
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post #12422 of 14378 Old 01-06-2010, 12:53 PM
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I rescanned and still get nothing but the Dayton channels and CH 64.1!
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post #12423 of 14378 Old 01-06-2010, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microbob View Post

Maybe they replaced their Flexcoder

The Flexicoder is dead. Long live the new NetVX!
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post #12424 of 14378 Old 01-06-2010, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmtrMan View Post

The Flexicoder is dead. Long live the new NetVX!

Just in time for the Super Bowl! I can't tell any major difference so far during the 6:00 PM news. Hopefully we'll get some better bandwidth-intensive tests tonight.
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post #12425 of 14378 Old 01-07-2010, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmtrMan View Post

The Flexicoder is dead. Long live the new NetVX!

Awesome!

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #12426 of 14378 Old 01-07-2010, 07:08 PM
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...for not running the weather and closing ticker during the game.
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post #12427 of 14378 Old 01-08-2010, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post

Thank you WCPO...for not running the weather and closing ticker during the game.

I second that -- a big thumbs up!!!
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post #12428 of 14378 Old 01-08-2010, 07:25 AM
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Every time I switched over to them, they WERE running it.

Panny Plasma Junkie: TC-P50VT20, TC-P50G15, TH-42PX60U
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post #12429 of 14378 Old 01-08-2010, 12:04 PM
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Only time I saw it was during commercials, which is a good thing.
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post #12430 of 14378 Old 01-09-2010, 01:26 PM
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Did something happen with channel 5? The picture looks incredible!!
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post #12431 of 14378 Old 01-09-2010, 02:11 PM
 
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You watching OTA or cable? Looks the same to me OTA as it always has. GO BENGALS!!!
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post #12432 of 14378 Old 01-10-2010, 06:58 PM
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Huzzah!

Today, for some unknown reason, I have been able to watch the Channel 25 substations.

I live just East of Oxford and despite upgrading to a DB8 pointed at Cinci, no 25.

Today, there it was.

Tres weird. Atmosphere? Maybe, but for one day, I am enjoying it.
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post #12433 of 14378 Old 01-12-2010, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmtrMan View Post

The Flexicoder is dead. Long live the new NetVX!

Recordings from last night indicate the new configuration is being stingy with bits to the HD stream...
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post #12434 of 14378 Old 01-12-2010, 03:45 PM
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If it's a statistical multiplexer, and I would bet that it is, then during scenes that do not require as much bandwidth (like solid black or still images) it can crush down the size during that instant without harming picture quality.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #12435 of 14378 Old 01-12-2010, 05:44 PM
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did you view it visually or did you watch the bandwith with say TSREader?
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post #12436 of 14378 Old 01-12-2010, 06:01 PM
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looking at tsreader - during whatever show is on now - 8:50pm (NCIS) - 12-1 is only getting 8-9 mB/s.. a null stream is getting another 5 mb/s
LL
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post #12437 of 14378 Old 01-12-2010, 06:04 PM
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If you are running TSReader Standard (not Lite), try going to View > Chart > Settings > Real Time Charting and then go to View > Video Bit-rate Line and watch what it's doing in real time, you'll see the usage vary from second to second. It's just averaging out to 8-9 Mbps because the content is not demanding any more than that overall.

- Trip

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post #12438 of 14378 Old 01-12-2010, 06:08 PM
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wow.. thats all over.. during ncis la or whatever is on at 9pm - its up around 12 mb/s now.. the null stream is now #3 behind cincw..
LL
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post #12439 of 14378 Old 01-12-2010, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim tressler View Post

did you view it visually or did you watch the bandwith with say TSREader?

I was watching and admittedly did not detect any obvious degradation from 12-1's normal bit constrained quality. I really noticed the difference when I edited and archived my recordings. What had previously been @ 2,200Mb per 21 minute show (less commercials) were now @ 1,800. This compares with @ 2,400Mb for WLWT recordings.

I will wait until I can view more demanding program content than sitcoms to see if I can detect a visual difference.
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post #12440 of 14378 Old 01-13-2010, 01:53 PM
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While you are doing your analysis keep in mind that the compression in the NetVX is MUCH more efficient than the Flexicoder.

NetVX consistently runs considerably less bandwidth than the Flexicoder when fed the same program.
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post #12441 of 14378 Old 01-13-2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmtrMan View Post

NetVX consistently runs considerably less bandwidth than the Flexicoder when fed the same program.

So does that mean that that extra bandwidth will eventually be used for other purposes like improving the quality of CinCW (480i widescreen or 480p?) or adding another subchannel?
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post #12442 of 14378 Old 01-14-2010, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post

So does that mean that that extra bandwidth will eventually be used for other purposes like improving the quality of CinCW (480i widescreen or 480p?) or adding another subchannel?

Or, improving the quality of the HD channel?

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #12443 of 14378 Old 01-16-2010, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't had a chance to cap/analyze the WKRC video streams during 24fps content to check, yet --- Is WKRC implementing a "film detection/Repeat Field Detection/etc. setting on the NetVX to implement TFF/RFF("Telecine") flags during 24fps content (like WLWT, The ThinkTV stations and WBDT(CW HD Dayton) do - on all their 480i and 1080i services) ... ???? ... If I recall correctly, the NetVX and Harmonic Encoders will do that (Some decoders have problems with that+720p, but AFAIK, that doesn't seem to be an issue with 480i/1080i ) .....

Update: Never Mind that question - Just checked it with some 24fps commercials during current basketball game --- They're not using the TFF/RFF flags currently/The dupes are coded pictures ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post
So does that mean that that extra bandwidth will eventually be used for other purposes like improving the quality of CinCW ....
It seems to me it(and the more "efficient" encoding) already (obviously) is being used for that .... (update) : And, it's not like there's a lot left over ... For example --- this afternoon/currently(during HD Basketball), I see The Null packet stream going as low as about 1.15Mb/s with 12.1 video as high as about 12.83Mb/s and 12.2 video going as high as about 4.5mb/s (don't forget there are also the audio streams, PSIP and TVGoS that "fill out" the remainder of the 19.39 Mb/s total payload) ....

Tsreader HTML output attached (w/o info in EIT's)-- This was capped during bandwidth demanding portion of HD basketball game, at a time when it looked like(with my eyes) that the HD could certianly have used more bits ...... Of course, in order for the HD Video to get many more bits during such times, CinCW would need to be using fewer bits, which doesn't bode well for the quality of both program services(even with Stat-muxing) for when you have bandwidth demanding content airing simultanously on Both of them ....

Quote:
.... (480i widescreen or 480p?)
704x480 4x3 vs. 704 x 480 16x9 is just a change in pixel aspect ratio, the resolution and bandwidth requirements are the same ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimp2244
Or, improving the quality of the HD channel?
That would be nice, as it looks to me like there is certianly room for improvement there, but it seems unlikely to me from what we've seen from them so far (And in general, most everyone else as well) .....

Update: Oh, anyway - along those lines --- I haven't looked at it much, but The main improvement I've noticed so far is the lack of the flexicoder adaptive pre-filtering issue (which was especially noticable during/just after scene changes) .... Although there has been some improvement regarding the following ---- There still seems to be significant blocking or mosquito noise issues --- And also, it's hard to say given I've only used my eyes, and again I've looked at very little of it, but it looks to me like some sort of undesireable filtering (resulting perhaps in some loss of detail) *may* also be going on ...

 

WKRC.zip 1.88671875k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip WKRC.zip (1.9 KB, 0 views)

Jeff
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post #12444 of 14378 Old 01-16-2010, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Going back a bit .... meant to comment on this earlier, but didn't have the time :

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post

WCPO will more than likely stop broadcasting on RF 10 and start broadcasting on RF 22. They have permission from the

FCC to make the switch, but haven't submitted a CP application yet.This would also knock off the W22DE analog translator in Dayton.[/list]

The FCC order(Adopted Dec 8, 2009/released Dec 10, 2009) changing the allotment to 22 was Published in Federal Register on Dec 21, 2009 (The "effective date" of the order) ..... It specifies in the order WCPO SHALL submit a CP app (minor change to licensed facility) within 30 Days of the effective Date of the order ...

It's possible they may have already submitted it, and it's just not "showing up" yet (A current search of CDBS doesn't find it yet) --- In any case, one would think it *should* show up soon ......

BTW, Regarding Other recent UHF to VHF changes in area -- WKYT's (Lexington - currently on 13) CP app for 36 Was filed 12/1 -- , WSYX(Columbus - Currently on 13) CP app for 48 was filed 12/28/2009, but not shown as "accepted for filing" by FCC until 1/6/2010 .... The FCC order changing the WSYX allotment was Adopted Dec 8/Released Dec 11, Published in Federal Register December 21 ....


Quote:


This would also knock off the W22DE analog translator in Dayton.

One perhaps interesting thing about that is the only "indication" of the W22DE callsign I can find is on the Authorization for the CP, All other records available on FCC site are "old" records, with the old W66AQ (on 66) callsign and facilities specified ....

Usually, when the CP is applied for(which happened, and was granted in this case back in 2007 per an "interference agreement" with WKEF), the technical info (ERP, Antenna pattern/etc) shows up in CDBS (including TV query) immediately, and that info is also utilized for interference protection calculations by other stations/etc. for channel change petitions/CP apps/etc per OET bullitin #69 .... Even though they would be displaced, being a LP station -- nevertheless, the info *should* have been there for interference analysis purposes for WCPO's petition as well as the presumably upcoming CP app (especially since it's not just an "app", they are actually ON the air) ....

My best guess as to why that happened may involve that WKEF 22 (analog) was "using" channel 22 in Dayton at the time the CP for W22DE was granted, so perhaps CDBS had some sort of a "key field" issue/etc .....

Jeff
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post #12445 of 14378 Old 01-18-2010, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

Update: Oh, anyway - along those lines --- I haven't looked at it much, but The main improvement I've noticed so far is the lack of the flexicoder adaptive pre-filtering issue (which was especially noticable during/just after scene changes) .... Although there has been some improvement regarding the following ---- There still seems to be significant blocking or mosquito noise issues --- And also, it's hard to say given I've only used my eyes, and again I've looked at very little of it, but it looks to me like some sort of undesireable filtering (resulting perhaps in some loss of detail) *may* also be going on ...

After watching both AFC divisional playoff games this past weekend, I agree. Overall the picture looks much better during scene transitions, but there were parts where it still looked a little blocky.
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post #12446 of 14378 Old 01-18-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post

After watching both AFC divisional playoff games this past weekend, I agree. Overall the picture looks much better during scene transitions, but there were parts where it still looked a little blocky.

I agree as well. But the interesting part is that the scene change "blur" blocking could have been fixed with a simple setting change on their old encoder. I am not sure I see any improvement in the HD picture (other than the blur issue being resolved as a side effect) after the new equipment install. But, then again, I don't know that improving the HD picture was part of their goal with the new equipment.

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
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post #12447 of 14378 Old 01-19-2010, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

It's possible they may have already submitted it, and it's just not "showing up" yet (A current search of CDBS doesn't find it yet) --- In any case, one would think it *should* show up soon ......

It's out there now under file number BPCDT-20100115ABY.
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post #12448 of 14378 Old 01-19-2010, 04:03 PM
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If WCPO moves to Ch. 22, will it really make that much of a difference? Currently receive a great signal from WCPO and always have, even at lower power levels and antenna height. Is the concern mainly with indoor antennas? How are these people receiving WKRC?

Alex
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post #12449 of 14378 Old 01-19-2010, 05:28 PM
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A few weeks ago here in Northgate, I had to watch the Bengals on Ch 7 from Dayton because I couldn't get Ch 12.

Unrelated - Kiesewtter is reporting that starting Feb 1st Ch 48-3 will drop CET-World and become CET Arts.
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post #12450 of 14378 Old 01-19-2010, 06:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blbrodbeck View Post

A few weeks ago here in Northgate, I had to watch the Bengals on Ch 7 from Dayton because I couldn't get Ch 12.

And thats a bad thing because...? CH7 has actual, real, live 5.1 surround sound. CH12 is still 2.0.

Quote:


Unrelated - Kiesewtter is reporting that starting Feb 1st Ch 48-3 will drop CET-World and become CET Arts.

Really? Cool. I think. Never watched 'World' and doubt I'll ever watch 'Arts' so its a wash for me.
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