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post #3841 of 3870 Old 07-31-2016, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrc54 View Post
i called and spoke to the station manager's office about losing the weather channel. She kept talking about band width. I told her that wndy has been doing 2 1080i channels and a 480i for almost a year and the picture quality is very good. My other home is down there. Back came the band width answer. I suggested they call the engineers at wndy. if wndu can't do 2 108i and a 480i, maybe they should hire an engineer that can!
wsbt
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post #3842 of 3870 Old 07-31-2016, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
wsbt
Yes, thought I put WSBT in title. My bad.
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post #3843 of 3870 Old 08-01-2016, 05:56 AM
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5.1 Audio vs 2.0

I noticed on the 8 am news on 22.2 that it is in 2.0 audio whereas the simulcast on 28.1 is in 5.1 audio. I wonder if WSBT will upgrade the FOX channel to 5.1 audio.
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post #3844 of 3870 Old 08-01-2016, 08:03 AM
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so for an outside the area observer...what is on 28 now?
Just H&I or a copy of Fox still?
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post #3845 of 3870 Old 08-01-2016, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
so for an outside the area observer...what is on 28 now?
Just H&I or a copy of Fox still?
28.1 is a simulcast of 22.2 but with 5.1 DD audio. 28.2 is H&I. I understand this simulcast to be temporary but I don't know for how long.
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post #3846 of 3870 Old 08-01-2016, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bflora View Post
28.1 is a simulcast of 22.2 but with 5.1 DD audio. 28.2 is H&I. I understand this simulcast to be temporary but I don't know for how long.

I read somewhere that the simulcast will end at the end of September.

Last edited by Timroberts; 08-01-2016 at 08:53 AM.
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post #3847 of 3870 Old 08-01-2016, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
wsbt
Even with the latest encoders, running two HD channels AND a subchannel is very difficult to do right, and even then, compromises are made. So, I more than bet WSBT's engineers were in on this meeting, and went: "we can't do 2 HD channels and a sub without new encoders, or without dropping our weather channel to at least make them look reasonably good". And management said: OK. "No money for new encoders; 22.3 is gone!" Given the proliferation of the Internet and weather websites, these weather subchannels are becoming unnecessary (and I'm a meteorologist!). This is especially true since WSBT's website has all that info there already. They make virtually no money off of it, versus a considerable amount from being a FOX affiliate. That was an easy decision to make.

And what about WSJV? I could see that becoming ABC. And then we'd go full circle with affiliations on that station. If anyone thinks H&I will make enough money for 28.1 to make a profit, they're mistaken. Something major has to happen with 28 for it to make money after Fox is gone...

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post #3848 of 3870 Old 08-01-2016, 04:12 PM
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Even with the latest encoders, running two HD channels AND a subchannel is very difficult to do right, and even then, compromises are made. So, I more than bet WSBT's engineers were in on this meeting, and went: "we can't do 2 HD channels and a sub without new encoders, or without dropping our weather channel to at least make them look reasonably good". And management said: OK. "No money for new encoders; 22.3 is gone!" Given the proliferation of the Internet and weather websites, these weather subchannels are becoming unnecessary (and I'm a meteorologist!). This is especially true since WSBT's website has all that info there already. They make virtually no money off of it, versus a considerable amount from being a FOX affiliate. That was an easy decision to make.

And what about WSJV? I could see that becoming ABC. And then we'd go full circle with affiliations on that station. If anyone thinks H&I will make enough money for 28.1 to make a profit, they're mistaken. Something major has to happen with 28 for it to make money after Fox is gone...
I think it is obvious that WSJV will auction its bandwidth. I also have a hunch ABC will end up on WNDU.
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post #3849 of 3870 Old 08-01-2016, 04:28 PM
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How is WSJV still a thing at all after this sale? I thought that was the point.
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post #3850 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 06:41 AM
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WSBT 22.3 WEATHER channel disappears

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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
wsbt
WSBT'S weather channel was one of the worst ones out there. Now it evaporated, without warning. The official excuse is that it took too much bandwidth. All of a sudden, WSBT noticed that 22.3 was hogging excessive bandwidth. Yeah, sure, whatever.

Never mind you had to wait 15-20 minutes for the important radar screen to appear during bad weather events. To scroll through gobs of advertising, dewpoint screen, flight delay screen, and other trivial and unmeaningful screens.

22.3 was clutterred, poorly laid out, and annoying to look at. Yet, it was a public service. My 93 old neighbor relied on it as he does not have internet. I'm sure he wasn't the only one that put up with all the garbage advertising to get a peek at the weather forecast.
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post #3851 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by VendorBS View Post
WSBT'S weather channel was one of the worst ones out there. Now it evaporated, without warning. The official excuse is that it took too much bandwidth. All of a sudden, WSBT noticed that 22.3 was hogging excessive bandwidth. Yeah, sure, whatever.

Never mind you had to wait 15-20 minutes for the important radar screen to appear during bad weather events. To scroll through gobs of advertising, dewpoint screen, flight delay screen, and other trivial and unmeaningful screens.

22.3 was clutterred, poorly laid out, and annoying to look at. Yet, it was a public service. My 93 old neighbor relied on it as he does not have internet. I'm sure he wasn't the only one that put up with all the garbage advertising to get a peek at the weather forecast.
22.3 used excessive bandwidth because 22.2 became a fox channel, and so they had to upgrade 22.2 to HD. They didn't have the bandwidth to broadcast two HD channels as well as the weather channel, so they had to shut it down.

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post #3852 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
22.3 used excessive bandwidth because 22.2 became a fox channel, and so they had to upgrade 22.2 to HD. They didn't have the bandwidth to broadcast two HD channels as well as the weather channel, so they had to shut it down.

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Gray broadcasting has no problem doing two HD channels and an SD Channel. They run CBS main NBC HD sub and me/my sub in Nebraska just fine. In North Dakota they do NBC main FOX HD sub and MeTV sub in Western North Dakota just fine. In the East swap Fox for CBS.

A basic Weather Channel like that does not take up a lot of bandwidth. So it sounds like they just decided to end it and is using this as an excuse
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post #3853 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
Gray broadcasting has no problem doing two HD channels and an SD Channel. They run CBS main NBC HD sub and me/my sub in Nebraska just fine. In North Dakota they do NBC main FOX HD sub and MeTV sub in Western North Dakota just fine. In the East swap Fox for CBS.

A basic Weather Channel like that does not take up a lot of bandwidth. So it sounds like they just decided to end it and is using this as an excuse
Either those stations have more bandwidth available to them, or they are overly compressing their HD stations. Either way, not an option for WSBT.

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post #3854 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Either those stations have more bandwidth available to them,
Every RF station is allocaed the same amount of bandwidth.

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or they are overly compressing their HD stations.
nope. I've seen the dual HD in Fargo and its better picture than what my ABC is in Minneapolis. KSTP (ABC Mpls) uses 1/2 their bandwitdh for mobile TV so their OTA picture looks like crap (they have one SD sub).

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Either way, not an option for WSBT.
it is an option. but they decided not to pursue that avenue. Hey I applaud them for looking out for the HD picture but they could easily allocate minimal bandwidth for a static weather station.
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post #3855 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 02:18 PM
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I'm saying it may not be an option for their quality standards.

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post #3856 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
I'm saying it may not be an option for their quality standards.
I figured since Sinclair is the owner and they do it in other markets...2 HD + SD and in most markets that they do it the SD is an actual diginet and not a static weather station they would do it there too.
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post #3857 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 03:41 PM
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since Sinclair is the owner

Unclehonkey,

I think Sinclair wanted to jettison the weather service as the channel was not sufficiently profitable. Comcast was helping to fund 22.3 but they stopped that awhile ago. BW is only the excuse to give out when asked.

Seems like the Ferenghi have taken over the planet. Cheers.
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post #3858 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 06:33 PM
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Well, what are the bitrates we're dealing with here? Perhaps 22.1 and 22.2 are max bitrate HD broadcast channels, while the other ones listed before have been downgraded to allow room for a third channel. Again, they may not be willing to compromise their main channels to support some third channel that almost nobody watches.
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post #3859 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by VendorBS View Post
Unclehonkey,

I think Sinclair wanted to jettison the weather service as the channel was not sufficiently profitable. Comcast was helping to fund 22.3 but they stopped that awhile ago.
that makes sense
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post #3860 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Well, what are the bitrates we're dealing with here? Perhaps 22.1 and 22.2 are max bitrate HD broadcast channels,
The only way you can use "max bitrate" or bandwidth is if it was a single HD station, no subs, no mobile...like the CBS O&O's before they added Decades last year (Minneapolis was one of them...)

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while the other ones listed before have been downgraded to allow room for a third channel.
The diginets usually have a contract whereas this wx may not.

Quote:
Again, they may not be willing to compromise their main channels
But its Sinclair that makes the decision (since they are the owner) and they do it in other markets

The response that Comcast was help footing the bill for the WX and they stopped doing that makes more sense
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post #3861 of 3870 Old 08-07-2016, 07:12 PM
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The only way you can use "max bitrate" or bandwidth is if it was a single HD station, no subs, no mobile...like the CBS O&O's before they added Decades last year (Minneapolis was one of them...)
I meant max bitrate in the ATSC sense, not in the sense of theoretical bandwidth.

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But its Sinclair that makes the decision (since they are the owner) and they do it in other markets

The response that Comcast was help footing the bill for the WX and they stopped doing that makes more sense
They may be the owner but that doesn't mean they make that decision.
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post #3862 of 3870 Old 08-09-2016, 05:10 AM
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WSBT 22.3 Disappears

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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

They may be the owner but that doesn't mean they make that decision.
Morph,

If the owner, (Sinclair), doesn't make the decision then, Who does? The viewers?
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post #3863 of 3870 Old 08-09-2016, 11:22 AM
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Morph,

If the owner, (Sinclair), doesn't make the decision then, Who does? The viewers?
WSBT makes decisions on their own too, you know...

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post #3864 of 3870 Old 08-12-2016, 12:15 PM
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WSBT makes decisions on their own too, you know...

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True, you do have point. 22.3 in the end just was not worth the aggravation to WSBT.
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post #3865 of 3870 Old Today, 06:35 AM
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Thumbs down South Bend 22

I am continually amazed how good South Bend 22.1 is at having a poor signal on Sunday morning during the CBS Sunday morning show. Completely drops out. By 11:00am it is visible again in the Sturgis Michigan area. Channels 16, 34 , 57 and 69 continue to come in strong at all times. What gives??????
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post #3866 of 3870 Old Today, 06:44 AM
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Why? Is Weigel looking to sell?

. The FCC rule is you can't own 2 separate stations that are the top 4 in a market. You can put programming on your sub (as Sinclair is doing) or you can have it on a LP station. Those are OK.
Then how did Channel 21 ( ABC) buy Channel 33 (NBC) in Fort Wayne in 2005?
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post #3867 of 3870 Old Today, 08:09 AM
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Then how did Channel 21 ( ABC) buy Channel 33 (NBC) in Fort Wayne in 2005?
no they didn't. Granite owned 33 whereas Malara Broadcasting (which to this day could have been a shell company for Granite) owned 21 and let Granite run 33 through a shared service agreement. I know because my old market (Duluth, MN) was the same way. Granite owned KBJR NBC 6 and Malara owned KDLH CBS 3 but KBJR ran it. Even in 2005 you couldn't own 2 of the top 4 in a market

The difference between then and now is back then you could create a new company to buy the 2nd station and then let your "main" company run it. Its just like Nexstar and Mission Broadcasting. Every station Mission owns Nexstar runs. That was the loophole to get around the "cant own 2 of the top 4 stations in a smaller market" duopoly.

A year or so ago (beginning of 2014) the FCC cracked down on this and wont let it happen anymore. The whole Quincy buying Granite and the Malara stations thing went almost a year before the FCC approved it with the grounds they (Quincy) had to make sure that they wouldnt run the 2 SagamoreHill stations (WISE 33 and KDLH3). Thats why in both markets stations were moved around to subchannels and both WISE and KDLH are now just CW+ stations yet in Rochester, MN KTTC (NBC owned by Qunicy) can still run KXLT FOX 47 (owned by Sagamore Hill). That is grandfathered in.
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post #3868 of 3870 Old Today, 11:25 AM
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I dropped Comcast at the beginning of the year. Been watching the local stations using a chimney mounted 25 year old Radio Shack antenna connected to my Tivo via the 45 year old twinlead installed when the house was built. I'm 8 miles due north of the towers in a heavily wooded subdivision just south of Cleveland Rd. On calm days, I'd get all the local channels just fine but at the slightest hint of lousy weather (windy and/or rainy) and 34 and 57 (and sometimes 22) would suffer pixellation and/or audio dropouts, often to the point they'd be unwatchable.

This past week I replaced the twinlead with RG6 and because I had some extra length, moved the antenna up a couple feet (from maybe 25' to 27' above grade.) The antenna is still well below the tops of the mature oak trees in my line of sight to the towers. I have not had any lousy weather yet to do a test but the signal strength through the antenna input of my Tivo is now 100% on all 8 channels. With the old twinlead, I got the max signal only on 16, 22, and 28. I also viewed the SNR and signal strength through my TV's diagnostic menu. SNRs ranged from 30 on 57 and 69 to 33 on 22. The signal strength was 95 on 57 and 69 and 98 on all the others. Won't know for sure if this will improve the lousy weather performance but based on the apparent signal strength improvements, I'm hopeful.
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post #3869 of 3870 Old Today, 01:32 PM
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On calm days, I'd get all the local channels just fine but at the slightest hint of lousy weather (windy and/or rainy) and 34 and 57 (and sometimes 22) would suffer pixellation and/or audio dropouts, often to the point they'd be unwatchable.
When twinlead gets wet (particularly when it's OLD) it's basically shorting the signal out...as long as the coax isn't weathered (as in when it eventually gets really old) wet weather should no longer have a (major) effect on your signals now, since you say they're obviously great now.
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post #3870 of 3870 Old Today, 02:31 PM
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When twinlead gets wet (particularly when it's OLD) it's basically shorting the signal out..
So I'd heard which is why I decided it was time to replace it since we are 100% OTA (when not streaming.) The exterior coax is brand new so I figure by the time it's weathered and needs replacing, we'll be long gone (we've been in the house 30 years)!
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