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post #181 of 3743 Old 12-20-2005, 12:41 PM
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Can anyone tell me if it just my tuner (MyHD MDP-130) or is WNIT's PSIP channel ID sent in lower case "wnit-hd" as opposed to "WNIT-HD"? Just sorta annoying I guess, at least to me. I am glad however that they are doing 34.1 and no longer 35.1, as I also get WGVU, and they are 35.1.

Now if they just wouldnt multicast, and give their HD feed more than 13mbps I would be truly happy!
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post #182 of 3743 Old 12-20-2005, 05:58 PM
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Kirby,
WNIT-DT sends it out lower case, it's not just you.

--Roland
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post #183 of 3743 Old 12-27-2005, 12:49 PM
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I just picked up a Comast HD box a few days ago. I only got the dumb thing because they claimed to offer ABC in HD. Well my first opportunity to watch what I thought would be HD was the MNF game and it was as square (4:3) as my 10 year old tube tv. It might have been digital, but it certainly wasn't HD. What's the deal? Was this a fluke? All the other HD channels were HD. I'll check it again tonight during prime time, but I'm hoping that they at least have the ability to broadcast HD for things like the ND game on Jan. 2!! I get all the OTA channels very well from Granger without a powered antenna. Of course I guess we're all still wondering when ABC is going to get in the game.
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post #184 of 3743 Old 12-27-2005, 09:01 PM
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All:

We are currently rebuilding our technical facilities in Chicago that also control WMWB and WBND in South Bend. Currently, all programming is being upconverted 24/7 until Saturday, Jan. 28. We are now operating on an all digital SD plant and will not introduce HD into the mix until phase 2 is complete at the end of January.

FYI, ABC network NY went through a similar rebuild last fall and operated in a 24/7 upconvert mode nationwide for just over 3 weeks. We are simply doing the same on a local level. When complete, all processing for both stations (graphics too) will be in true HD and a 4:3 downconvert will feed the existing transmitters and direct analog feed (Ch 5 and 7) to Comcast.

Be patient, it will look great in the end.

-Kyle
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post #185 of 3743 Old 12-27-2005, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmicrowave2002 View Post

When complete, all processing for both stations (graphics too) will be in true HD and a 4:3 downconvert will feed the existing transmitters and direct analog feed (Ch 5 and 7) to Comcast.

Will you be providing a direct feed to Dish Network/DirecTV as well?

At some point I hope E* picks up the HD feeds for our market, including ABC and WB. I expect we're realistically talking 2007 or 2008 since they are just starting HD locals next year, but it would be nice to get HD before the digital change over.

Good to see the processing improved.

JL
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post #186 of 3743 Old 12-28-2005, 07:48 PM
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Hard to say. Right now Dish and DirecTV have no plans on schedule for HD sat. Remember it hasn't been that long ago since they added locals!
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post #187 of 3743 Old 12-28-2005, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmicrowave2002 View Post

Hard to say. Right now Dish and DirecTV have no plans on schedule for HD sat. Remember it hasn't been that long ago since they added locals!

Huh???? DirecTV has at least 12 HD LiL markets live right now. And dozens more will be added early next year (which isnt far away). New York and LA just went live today infact.
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post #188 of 3743 Old 12-28-2005, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmicrowave2002 View Post

Hard to say. Right now Dish and DirecTV have no plans on schedule for HD sat. Remember it hasn't been that long ago since they added locals!

In South Bend, yes. Both satellite companies added locals in 2003. But as noted, DirecTV has several HD markets up and Echostar is planning five markets in January and possibly 60 markets by the end of 2006. I believe both companies will be more proactive with HD locals than they were with regular locals.

JL
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post #189 of 3743 Old 12-29-2005, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmicrowave2002 View Post

All:

We are currently rebuilding our technical facilities in Chicago that also control WMWB and WBND in South Bend. Currently, all programming is being upconverted 24/7 until Saturday, Jan. 28. We are now operating on an all digital SD plant and will not introduce HD into the mix until phase 2 is complete at the end of January.

FYI, ABC network NY went through a similar rebuild last fall and operated in a 24/7 upconvert mode nationwide for just over 3 weeks. We are simply doing the same on a local level. When complete, all processing for both stations (graphics too) will be in true HD and a 4:3 downconvert will feed the existing transmitters and direct analog feed (Ch 5 and 7) to Comcast.

Be patient, it will look great in the end.

-Kyle

Thanks for the info. I was beginning to think we would never get HD on these 2 channels, and I should start to look for some other way to get these networks.

Al
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post #190 of 3743 Old 12-29-2005, 04:16 AM
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Does anyone know why Fox 28 HD is not on the Comcast lineup? When I called the Comcast 800 # they said it was channel 190. When I picked up the box at the local store they told me there was no FoxHD. Sure enough, I cannot tune to channel 190.

Anyone?

Nice to here WBND is working on it. The time table probably won't work out but wouldn't it be great if they were done in time for the Superbowl!

Thanks
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post #191 of 3743 Old 12-29-2005, 11:06 AM
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This information is not very comforting for someone who is having guests over to watch a Fiesta Bowl in HD!!!!!!!!!!! Can you guys get it going for just a few days for the football games? What a shame that you are the big Bowl network and you choose to fix something during the time when most people want to watch!!!!! Unbelievable. Mon. Jan. 2, 5:00pm. C'mon give the rebuild guys the day off and give us ND in HD.
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post #192 of 3743 Old 12-29-2005, 11:30 AM
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Maybe I'm the lone voice of dissent here, but I'm more interested in OTA HD than LiL HD via DBS. TVmicrowave2002's timeline is good news for me (even if it means I'll be missing ND v OSU in the Fiesta Bowl in HD) as it seems his organization has been quiet about their ATSC plans. Thanks for feeding us an update.

TVµw2K2, will WBND & WMWB be on the same channels (basically, does analog go away when DTV operations start,) or do you have new frequencies that will be used?

--Roland
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post #193 of 3743 Old 12-29-2005, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post

Maybe I'm the lone voice of dissent here, but I'm more interested in OTA HD than LiL HD via DBS. TVmicrowave2002's timeline is good news for me (even if it means I'll be missing ND v OSU in the Fiesta Bowl in HD) as it seems his organization has been quiet about their ATSC plans. Thanks for feeding us an update.

TVµw2K2, will WBND & WMWB be on the same channels (basically, does analog go away when DTV operations start,) or do you have new frequencies that will be used?

If I'm not mistaken, the HD will only be on cable, not OTA, at least for now.

Al
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post #194 of 3743 Old 12-29-2005, 07:02 PM
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Al,
Does Middlebury have WBND in HD (or upconverted SD) on your cable currently or is it just Comast in South Bend/Mishawaka that provides this signal?

TVmicrowave2002, if you're just referring to the feed your company provides to Comcast, I'll be ever so cross...

--Roland
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post #195 of 3743 Old 12-29-2005, 08:39 PM
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In my previous post, I was referring to the South Bend market for HD. Obviously HD on sat is in the works but lets face it, we're talking about South Bend market 80-x. They were not in any hurry to launch Standard Def in SB, we can only hope they will do HD in SB in the next 18-36 mos.

As for 25 and 57, we'd do launch full power OTA tonight if we could but there is one problem...as of right now the FCC will not issue a LPTV an assigned DTV frequency. The current rules only permit you to "flash cut" your current analog to digital with a maximum power of 15 kW ERP. That's not much. Obviously flash cutting 25 and 57 now would be suicide.

We're currently working with the FCC to provide DTV service on a separate channel. Believe it or not it isn't easy. Most of you are aware that WMWB and WBND are low power stations. Not low power because Weigel is cheap and doesn't want to go full power, rather, we were assigned a low power license because the FCC's table of allotments does not allow another full power station in the South Bend area. In 2002, Weigel invested in a new tower, the tallest in the South Bend market, new antennas, new transmitters, new processing at the tower site, a new bi-directional digital link from Chicago to South Bend as well as means for the local sales office to broadcast commercial content within minutes from the local sales office in South Bend vs, overnight shipments as they did before. Before these improvements, we broadcast from a leased tower only 500' tall with older, unreliable transmitters and poor processing.

It's a process. We are playing with the cards we were handed. If it was 1960, we would have a full power station. The South Bend stations have some of the best range and facilities in the country for a low power class station. Obviously, there is still a leap in signal strength with 16,22 and 28. Fortunately, cable's penetration grows day by day as OTA viewership decreases. In this context, low power vs. full power doesn't matter. I believe within 10 years, a majority of the markets will be focused on delivery systems other than OTA. Let's face it, we're already at that point in many markets.

As for true HD on the special events coming up, we'll do our best...
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post #196 of 3743 Old 12-29-2005, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post

Maybe I'm the lone voice of dissent here, but I'm more interested in OTA HD than LiL HD via DBS.

I'd prefer OTA HD as well ... but as tvmicrowave2002 noted, it is going to be a while before we are going to see that for WMWB and WBND (thanks to the FCC). It would help if they were WMWB-CA and WBND-CA instead of -LP stations.

In any case, until the FCC relents "alternative means" will have to be used to reach viewers. I'm glad that Weigel is doing all they can to get HD to our market. If that means the final leg needs to be done via Comcast and/or DBS providers that's fine.

Weigel has WB and ABC viewers in Warsaw and southern Kosciosko county thanks to the DBS company's carriage (and the way markets are defined). Cable carriage helps too. Personally, I'm not going to subscribe to Comcast just for HD. The thought of our market being 18-36 months out via satellite is encouraging. (Even though in ~48 months everything OTA will be digital.) Having owners like Weigel involved presenting a good signal to DBS is helpful.

(That being said, something flaked out last night during the Smallville rerun via E*. In the rocket launch scene it looked like the digital stream was losing stability. I'll let E* take the heat for that one. )

Here's where WBND and WMWB should cover (give or take) -
WBND-LP Service Area
WMWB-LP Service Area

As far as the ND game goes, it would be real cool if Weigel could borrow WNDU's HD feed for a few hours to get the game to more viewers in HD OTA. But that's pie in the sky dreaming!

TV46 is the real waste of DT space in our market. Not because of content, but because all they ever feed is their SD channel with only suggestions that they might do some HD eventually. Maybe they would take a 'donation' to rent the rest of their bandwidth!

Seriously: The improvements Weigel has done are laudable. I hope we all get to see their HD feeds sooner than later, but at least we know that the NTSC transmitters, cable companies and satellite companies are getting a good feed to pass on.

JL
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post #197 of 3743 Old 12-30-2005, 08:38 AM
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All I can say is this: WBND and WMWB will not get any viewing time in my home until they go Digital. I don't know what else to say. Mine is just one viewing household in our Market area. WBND's and WMWB's advertisiers can obviously do without our money since we have no idea who they are.

--Roland
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post #198 of 3743 Old 12-30-2005, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post

Al,
Does Middlebury have WBND in HD (or upconverted SD) on your cable currently or is it just Comast in South Bend/Mishawaka that provides this signal?

Yes, we have WBND-HD and WMWB-HD on the cable here in Middlebury. As far as I know, the channel lineup is exactly the same here as South Bend. I even recently got VOD here.

Al
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post #199 of 3743 Old 12-31-2005, 05:25 AM
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I don't understand all the technical stuff like you guys seem to, but if 46 is keeping 57 from getting FCC ok for "space" then that's a crime. 46 certainly doesn't need it and they prove it by not using it. Is there anyway for us to get a message to the FCC?

How about contacting Comcast and getting the ABC games on Monday switched to the ESPN channel (173) just for the day? Does anyone know how feasible this might be? Or who to contact to make it happen?
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post #200 of 3743 Old 12-31-2005, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by janko View Post

I don't understand all the technical stuff like you guys seem to, but if 46 is keeping 57 from getting FCC ok for "space" then that's a crime. 46 certainly doesn't need it and they prove it by not using it. Is there anyway for us to get a message to the FCC?

46 is a fully licensed TV station with more rights than any LP station. Under the digital conversion rules WHME gets a full DT channel to use for conversion (48). They do NOT have to transmit a HD signal. Personally I think it's a waste to use a DT channel for a single SD feed - but it isn't illegal.

57 is a low power station - not only lower power than the full "TV" designated stations but a secondary service. They were bumped off of their original channel by WSJV 28's digital channel (58) a few years back. The digital conversion rules do not give LPs a second channel to use for conversion, but they may flash cut losing the NTSC audience for the potential ATSC audience. (There is another issue facing 57 as the FCC will eventually want them to move to a lower channel to leave the channels above 50 for other uses than TV.)

It would be cool if WHME rented out their unused space to Weigel or another broadcaster to allow HD feeds in the remainder of their space. They ARE permitted to do so, but not compelled. I doubt if their 'mission' would allow them to do that.

WHME would be less of a waste of DT spectrum if they would simply put SOMETHING there. Perhaps a 24hr old rerun of their main channel or alternate feed of LeSea. They could put up a music video channel or other extra content as well. At minimum they could put WHME Radio and PulseFM audio channels up with a black screen or screen saver video. There is so much one can do with the space than just leave it empty.

JL
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post #201 of 3743 Old 01-01-2006, 12:14 AM
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I'm new to this discussion and the AVS Forum period, but seeing people from the area discussing the local situation specifically has been a welcome sight. I wasn't aware of all the specifics as to who is allowed to broadcast what before I found this thread.

We haven't gone HDTV yet, but will in the next couple of months or so and this has been very useful to access beforehand.

Moving along, do WBND and WMWB broadcast from the same antenna? Although we haven't bought an HD receiver yet, I have an old TV in my workshop with an antenna. I know from the maps and the FCC site that they must share the location, but thought it odd that I would receive WMWB so much more clearly than WBND.
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post #202 of 3743 Old 01-01-2006, 06:19 PM
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[quote=justalurker]46 is a fully licensed TV station with more rights than any LP station. Under the digital conversion rules WHME gets a full DT channel to use for conversion (48). They do NOT have to transmit a HD signal. Personally I think it's a waste to use a DT channel for a single SD feed - but it isn't illegal.


I didn't mean that it was a literal crime.
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post #203 of 3743 Old 01-02-2006, 03:36 AM
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I am formerly from South Bend and am currently living in LaPorte.

In the city of LaPorte I am able to watch WMWB OTA fairly clear with only a antenna. WBND is another story. I have never been able to pull in WBND clearly. When WMWB was on Channel 69 I could never get it, but after the move to 25 it is not to snowy even if the FCC map does not show LaPorte in the B Grade coverage. The FCC coverage map shows WBNDs signal on 57 should come in better then 25 and that has never been the case.

Regardless, I can only get WMWB and WBND (57 is very snowy) OTA. Comcast in LaPorte/Michigan City, which now shares the same lineup, does not carry either the analog or HDs of WMWB-LP/WBND-LP on our cable system because we are considered to be more in Chicagoland then South Bend, and the fact that they are both LPs makes it even worse to get added. I am really happy that this thread is here because I have always wondered what would happen to the ABC and WB affiliates in South Bend after the analog conversion at the end of this year (although I am not sure if 85% of American households will be watching DTV by the end of the year). Realistically I think we may still be a couple years off. I am familiar with Weigels stations in Chicago and Wisconsin and they are not a cheap company. They was handed the short end with this because the FCC does not allow a new High Power to sign on OTA in South Bend. It is a bit dissappointing but I do hope that I will be able to watch ABC or WB from South Bend in HD sometime in the future. It is just a shame that our local comcast system does not carry any South Bend LPs. We still do get all high powers however.

Regarding DaveK913s question: I had a conversation with a engineer at station I used to work at in South Bend about this a few years back when they made the switch with the WBND and WMWB frequencies. The tower site for 25, 57 and 69 is the same location, just west of Highway 331 south of town. I am not sure if the location would really matter to you as nearly all of the South Bend channels that you watch all broadcast from roughly the same area around Ironwood south of the Bypass. When WMWB moved from 69 to 25 I instantly started to get it fairly decent out here in LaPorte. Granted, they did get a better tower, but WBND still comes in snowly while WMWB is usually pretty clear. Its not just you, I have found this to be the case with nearly everyone else finding it more difficult to pull in 57 then 25. I have personally always found WBNDs signal to be weaker then 25, but I am aware that many other conditions could effect it. I personally wondered why they would not move WBND between 22 and 28. I have always found 25 to have better reception so it is possible it is because its on a lower channel number.

Hopefully tvmicrowave2002 still reads this and can post a reply and correct me about a few things.
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post #204 of 3743 Old 01-02-2006, 09:33 AM
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Your wish has been granted. Viewers of Comcast will see WBND-HD in true HD today. May look rough during breaks (you'll see what I mean when you watch it) but it's true HD from network for all the games today. Back to upconvert after this evening. Hopefully we can push for the true HD during all network HD by the end of the week. Thank you for your patience as we are rebuilding the Chicago plant into one of the area's first HD master controls.
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post #205 of 3743 Old 01-02-2006, 12:53 PM
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I'll have to see for myself, but if it's true, you are the MAN! Way to go.
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post #206 of 3743 Old 01-02-2006, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmicrowave2002 View Post

Your wish has been granted. Viewers of Comcast will see WBND-HD in true HD today. May look rough during breaks (you'll see what I mean when you watch it) but it's true HD from network for all the games today. Back to upconvert after this evening. Hopefully we can push for the true HD during all network HD by the end of the week. Thank you for your patience as we are rebuilding the Chicago plant into one of the area's first HD master controls.

That doesn't do anything for many people that get the local HD signals over the air or use DirecTV or Dish. I am disgusted by the absentee ownership just sucking money out of this market. A major network on a low power signal is rediculous.
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post #207 of 3743 Old 01-02-2006, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by idttywlm View Post

That doesn't do anything for many people that get the local HD signals over the air or use DirecTV or Dish. I am disgusted by the absentee ownership just sucking money out of this market. A major network on a low power signal is rediculous.

As TVMicrowave mentioned, they (or anyone else) can't sign on any more digital over-the-air signals here until analog sign-off. You need to call Dish or DirecTV to get them to add WBND, but since WBND-HD is not over-the-air, I don't know if they can legally or logistically do it.

Absentee ownership sucking money? They are right here on this board (as well as their also out-of-town competition, FOX 28), and even though Weigel based in Chicago, getting an HD signal out to South Bend to Comcast wasn't cheap, I'm sure. They've done all they can to get you the best ABC signal possible given the severe limitations by the FCC they are under. South Bend was set up with only 4 full-power stations by the FCC, it's not their fault. Believe me, they only wish they could have a full power analog and digital station here. It isn't going to happen, the FCC says so, and that's final. And obviously, no in-town broadcasting company wanted to bring you full-powered ABC. Weigel got the crumbs and are doing a stellar job with what little they have to work with. New tower, equipment, HD via cable...it's the best they can do right now.

Gilbert
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post #208 of 3743 Old 01-02-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

As TVMicrowave mentioned, they (or anyone else) can't sign on any more digital over-the-air signals here until analog sign-off. You need to call Dish or DirecTV to get them to add WBND, but since WBND-HD is not over-the-air, I don't know if they can legally or logistically do it.

Absentee ownership sucking money? They are right here on this board (as well as their also out-of-town competition, FOX 28), and even though Weigel based in Chicago, getting an HD signal out to South Bend to Comcast wasn't cheap, I'm sure. They've done all they can to get you the best ABC signal possible given the severe limitations by the FCC they are under. South Bend was set up with only 4 full-power stations by the FCC, it's not their fault. Believe me, they only wish they could have a full power analog and digital station here. It isn't going to happen, the FCC says so, and that's final. And obviously, no in-town broadcasting company wanted to bring you full-powered ABC. Weigel got the crumbs and are doing a stellar job with what little they have to work with. New tower, equipment, HD via cable...it's the best they can do right now.

HD via cable is useless to those who don't want to invest in yet another HD set of equipment. I get all the other local channels fine via OTA antenna. Why can't they broadcast a low powered HD signal? I really don't think WBND has any presence in this community. They don't even fund a website let alone a news department. I believe that WBND themselves would block me from getting a real ABC feed from Directv. Perhaps when Directv moves to getting the HD locals out I'll have better luck.
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post #209 of 3743 Old 01-02-2006, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by idttywlm View Post

Why can't they broadcast a low powered HD signal?

The only logical way that Weigel could do this would be to switch over operations at WMWB-LP (25) to digital operations, simulcasting WBND-DT and WMWB-DT on two sub-channels, while WBND-LP continued with NTSC ABC broadcasting. With ABC-HD broadcasting 720p and WB-HD using 1080i, I don't know how well this would work. Perhaps ABC at 720p and WB at 480p? They could also take Channel 69 (which was supposed to be shut down to return the spectrum to the FCC, but probably gets away with it being a low-power station) to broadcast WB analog programming, but I wouldn't think that would fly with Weigel.
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Originally Posted by idttywlm View Post

I really don't think WBND has any presence in this community. They don't even fund a website let alone a news department. I believe that WBND themselves would block me from getting a real ABC feed from Directv.

Weigel revoked my ABC waiver when they went to the new tower, so I have no doubt that they would deny yours. Depends on how close you are to the south side of SBN.

It would be nice of Weigel if would they allow ABC-HD & WB-HD waivers until they can provide ATSC transmissions. I wouldn't count on it, though.

Kudos to Weigel, though, for providing the ABC-HD Bowl Games to those 25 people that can get ABC-HD via Comcast. Hopefully, Comcast pays well...

--Roland
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post #210 of 3743 Old 01-02-2006, 08:32 PM
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The HD picture was great for the games today. The sound wasn't 5.1, but I'm not complaining. I hope they continue for the next games or at least for Wed. finale. Thanks again to Comcast. I might have been one of 25 people with Comcast, but I had about 15 at my house.

On a different note, I have a Samsung SIR-T451 (ota). It claims to have the ability to "decode" digital cable signals. Of course when I ask Comcast about it, they say it isn't compatible. How can I know for sure? Should I just plug the cable into the Samsung? Has anyone tried this? It would be nice to not need the Motorola box.
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