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post #541 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 05:05 AM
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walterc- WASV broadcasts a 4 X 3 digital signal on 45-1.
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post #542 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 05:05 AM
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The sound on WLOS was inaudible last night. WSPA and WASV are louder than everyone else.
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post #543 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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After several exchanges of e-mail with Ron Peeler, C.E., WSPA, I believe he has set audio levels at Dolby specs and that the wide variation is spread among the stations, and that most are running low level. Never-the-less we viewers are the losers until there are better industry standards.
Ron has monitored other local DT transmissions, plus CBS Charlotte, and finds that Charlotte and WSPA are comparable -- others are low. He will continue to program WSPA for - 29 dB Dolby setting. It appears our option is to try to get other stations to match WSPA and set the audio at the Dolby recommended level.

JB - Asheville

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post #544 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 10:36 AM
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Jerry,

That doesn't surprise me too much because it seems as though WSPA sounds the same as HDnet.

Did he say anything about the lip synch problem they still have?

Mike
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post #545 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 01:43 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Apps1
walterc- WASV broadcasts a 4 X 3 digital signal on 45-1.

If this is what maps to 62-1 DirecTV then I do get it, but it doesn't look any different than the standard 62 station. But you can see a noticeable difference with WBSC on their 40-1 as opposed to their standard 40.

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post #546 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike:
Please give me a brief account of your experiences with WSPA problems and I will also observe tonight. I need to be specific when I communicate with the station about the problem.

ALL: Please describe any audio problems you have recently experienced with WSPA.

JB - Asheville

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post #547 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Walterc:

Digital transmission over the air frequently looks no better than the analog signal in that it cannot improve on a bad origination. The advantage is that DT is ghost free and does not add video noise to what is already there. Garbage in, garbage out.

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post #548 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike:

I would bet on HDNet being close to recommended standards. I find few faults with this operation. Cuban is spending a ton and I certainly hope it pays off for him. We all own him gratitude for being the only source of HD coverage of the political conventions.

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post #549 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 02:12 PM
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Jerry,

I'm watching OTA on a Panasonic PT50-LC13 with a Zenith HD 520 receiver using DVI to the display and optical out to my Sony receiver. It appears as an audio lag. For example during the US Open, a player would hit the ball and just after it went over the net you would hear the sound of the player hitting the ball and grunting. This only occurs on HD shows when their passing DD5.1. During commercials it seems to adjust back to being on.

Now during football it isn't nearly as bad as it was for tennis but since you don't see the announcers it isn't as noticible either.

I'll see what its like on CSI tonight for a more up to date experience.

Thanks
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post #550 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 02:45 PM
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I've set the HDTivo to record CSI and Without a Trace on 7-1 so I'll let you know if I notice anything.

I had a CSI repeat taped last week, and it seemed like the audio lag was a lot better.

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post #551 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 03:09 PM
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Can anyone give me some suggestions on how I can get WHNS-DT? I am using a DISH network 811 receiver, and can receive WLOS, WYFF, and WUNF just fine. I am unable to get a lock on WSPA (but I received a CBS HD feed waiver, so I am ok there), WASV-DT (don't know why), and WHNS, which I REALLY want for the NFC football games. I can get 50% signal, but no lock. I am using a large UHF/VHF antenna with a winegard preamp.
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post #552 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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If you receive WYFF-DT chances are that you should receive WHNS-DT. Their towers are close together, WYFF at Caesar's Head, WHNS on Rich Mountain...the tallest tower in the region. I can see their flashing lights from Town Mountain Road, above Haw Creek. Drop me a PM with more specific location of your antenna. it's type and orientation.

JB - Asheville

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post #553 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 03:38 PM
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I really hadn't noticed it before, but Jerry is right. When I can pull in WYFF I can also pull in WHNS. Right now I'm getting everything but WLOS. Hopefully I'll get a preamp installed by the first part of next week, and then I'll report the results.

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post #554 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 08:10 PM
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It appears that WSPA has fixed their audio lag. Their were no noticeable lip synch issues with tonight's CSI-NY. I hope that this continues, cuz we've been waiting serveral months for this.
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post #555 of 10532 Old 09-22-2004, 10:49 PM
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I 2nd the no problems with WSPA tonight. I watched CSI:NY and it was right on.

Jerry:

If this holds up please pass along our thanks to the engineer at WSPA with whom you've been conversing.

On another note I'm waiting to hear back from my installer as to whether or not the CM7777 will work for me. My antenna is mounted high up on my roof on the 2nd story and initially he wondered how we would plug one up unless I had an outlet in my attic. I've asked hiim to look at the specs for the CM7777 to see if the power supply can be connected somewhere else or if it has to be close to the antenna up in the attic.

Today I got WSPA, WBSC, and WASV rock solid as usual, and WYFF and WHNS for most of the afternoon and evening with these two going out around midnight. WLOS was MIA all day. If a PreAmp just helps me get WYFF and WHNS more steady then I'll be satisfied with that. I'd love to get WLOS for MNF but other than that I don't watch a lot on ABC so I could hold out until they get HD locals on DirecTV's satellite fee.

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post #556 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 06:28 AM
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Well, lets hope WSPA has their audio issues fixed, because WLOS now has audio issues on their 13-1 station. Last night I tried watching the premier of LOST and had to switch to 13-0 because it was so bad. It was the same problem as before - the dialog was much lower than all other noises in the feed. I believe they were sending out a stereo feed and not 5.1, but it was like their equipment was lowering the center channel volume. All effects and other background noises were regular volume. You had to turn up the volume really loud to understand the dialog, but then you were blown out by the other sounds. Like I said, I had to switch to the SD feed just to watch it.

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post #557 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 06:34 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by walterc
On another note I'm waiting to hear back from my installer as to whether or not the CM7777 will work for me. My antenna is mounted high up on my roof on the 2nd story and initially he wondered how we would plug one up unless I had an outlet in my attic. I've asked hiim to look at the specs for the CM7777 to see if the power supply can be connected somewhere else or if it has to be close to the antenna up in the attic.

The CM7777 is a preamp - meaning that it is a two part set up. You have the premap which is unpowered and gets connected on the antenna right between the antenna and the main antenna feed going into the house. There is a second part - the power supply, which can be inserted in the line anywhere after the preamp and the distribution block (or splitters, etc - whatever you are using to split the signal to the different TVs). It obviously requires a power source, so hopefully you do have power close to your distribution block. It might be that the original installer but the distribution block in the attic where there is no power and that is his concern.

I just bought a CM7777 to install on my new house (don't close until next week) and I don't remember seeing a limit on the distance between the preamp and the power supply, but I can go back and check. if you would like. The directions are sitting on my kitchen table, so I can check it easily.

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post #558 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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walterc:
I am using a CM 7777 on a test basis to improve a weak VHF signal, Ch 9 from Greenville. But, I also let it amplify the seven UHF signals I that I normally receive with stability but different strengths. It has increased the signal strength reading on the UHF channels, most moving up from 80s to 90-100 percent range, and channel 9 now is in the 77-85 percent range.
It has not overloaded nor adversely affected any signals. Therefore I am pleased with its performance.
As for installation, the reason to install the amplifier section on the mast at the antenna is to avoid amplifying any noise generated by the line, and to amply the maximum signal collected by the antenna system before line losses.
However, you can check the results of the amplifier by installing it closer to the receiver. The power supply must go in the line before the amplifier and the usual placement is with the receiving equipment. The amplifier section can be placed with a short cable immediately after the power supply, and to the leadin from the antenna. The end results that you will have a short coax between the receiver and the power supply, then a short coax between the power supply and the amplifier, and the antenna leadin connected to the CM 7777. Note that the CM 7777 has an internal switch to allow either a combined UHF/VHF signal, or separate UHF and VHF lines in. Observe instructions that came with the amplifier.

This defeats some of the advantages for an antenna mast mounted installation, but will tell you if there is some improvement in the weaker signals.
The most important aspect for receiving the problem stations is the antenna orientation. In my case, my 4 bay CM antenna is pointing at my weakest UHF stations (WLOS and WUNF) and it still receives an adequate signal from all the other DT transmitters even though there is more than a 90 degree spread.
I have modified the UHF antenna somewhat by using a short di-pole on one of the terminals of the antenna in order to increase the WSPA-DT reception and it does not decrease other desirable signals. I will send you a picture of it if you wish. It is simply a 7" #14 wire connected to one side of the terminals and bent parallel to WSPA's transmitter. It works!
Later, if ever there is a need to service the antenna, you can move the 7777 to the mast.

JB - Asheville

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post #559 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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walterc:
To clear up a matter in your earlier posting, the CM 7777 power supply reduces line voltage and sends the necessary preamp power up the coax to the preamp. A power supply is not needed at or near the mast mounted preamp. That is why the power supply can be with your receiver/media setup. I have used up to 200 feet of coax for the power and it still performed ok. I have seen specs on the maximum run for adequate power, but cannot find it now.
Check the CM website for tech support if you have a concern, but your coax run is not long enough to be concerned.

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post #560 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 09:10 AM
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Jerry- I would like to see a picture of the modification you made to enhance WSPA's signal. This is the only channel that requires me to sometimes use my rotor to fine tune. This generally happens during bad weather.

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post #561 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 10:06 AM
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walterc:

I just wanted to plug another avforum member. I picked up my CM 7777 from Corey Brazell aka "cohbraz" who is with Audio Video Electronics in Newberry SC. I ordered it over the phone and they shipped it without any problems.

My signal strength went from 20's and 30's to 80's and 90's. I specifically chose the CM because it had the lowest noise ratio. My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner, as I spent a lot of time trying to adjust the antenna.
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post #562 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 12:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Fragman
walterc:

I just wanted to plug another avforum member. I picked up my CM 7777 from Corey Brazell aka "cohbraz" who is with Audio Video Electronics in Newberry SC. I ordered it over the phone and they shipped it without any problems.

My signal strength went from 20's and 30's to 80's and 90's. I specifically chose the CM because it had the lowest noise ratio. My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner, as I spent a lot of time trying to adjust the antenna.

Could you pm me his contact info.

Edit: Never mind I found it, but no one was there. If I hear back soon, and they can get it here I might just get it from them since they're so close, but otherwise I'll order it FedEx 2 day from Warren.

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post #563 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 04:48 PM
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Just thought I'd pass along another bit of info on the whole pre-amp thing. I talked to my installer today, and he said he wasn't sure I'd see much difference since I have a short run from the antenna to the main set, and there should be very little loss of signal for the pre-amp to correct. At this point I think I'm still going to try it. I only need marginal improvement to get WHNS and WYFF solid and stable all the time, and if it pulls in ABC then that's gravy.

It looks like it will be the end of next week so I'll let you know. From the sound of things here I'm not in a hurry for WLOS until they get their audio fixed anyway. The problems on WSPA drove me nuts, and it sounds like WLOS is worse. Once again tonight I'm getting everything but WLOS. It would be nice if WHNS and WYFF would stay steady at least until 11:00pm.

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post #564 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 05:15 PM
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walterc: You also have to consider that WLOS has yet to get their power back to up to the level that they once had it. Since the power outage they suffered after the hurricane, they haven't bumped their power levels back up. I still can't receive their signal and its been a week, and I was getting a really good lock on it before. I wouldn't pull my hair out because you can't get anything right now, because you might no be able to anyway until they get their power levels back up.
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post #565 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 06:39 PM
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Maybe this was mentioned here earlier and I missed it, but I'm going to post it now. Anyone else noticed WBSC, 40-1, ch 14, is in 720p now? It's the SD 4x3 with gray bars on each side, but does show signs of a future HD signal being passed through. I had to rub my eyes and blink a few times when I tuned in, but my receiver does say 720p. I'm just loving all of these stations going HD. Like a breath of fresh air.
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post #566 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 07:19 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dashaund
Maybe this was mentioned here earlier and I missed it, but I'm going to post it now. Anyone else noticed WBSC, 40-1, ch 14, is in 720p now? It's the SD 4x3 with gray bars on each side, but does show signs of a future HD signal being passed through. I had to rub my eyes and blink a few times when I tuned in, but my receiver does say 720p. I'm just loving all of these stations going HD. Like a breath of fresh air.

I'll have to check this out. I do watch Smallville and it's broadcast in HD so I'm with you on enjoying the prospects of more HD.

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post #567 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 07:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dashaund
walterc: You also have to consider that WLOS has yet to get their power back to up to the level that they once had it. Since the power outage they suffered after the hurricane, they haven't bumped their power levels back up. I still can't receive their signal and its been a week, and I was getting a really good lock on it before. I wouldn't pull my hair out because you can't get anything right now, because you might no be able to anyway until they get their power levels back up.

I wasn't aware of this. I thought once they came back up they were broadcasting at pre-hurricane levels. It may well be that the pre-amp won't help much if at all, but I figure I've spent so much on my whole HT System that another $150 ($75 pre-amp shipped, $75 labor) is not that big of a deal. Since I have to pay for the first full hour regardless of how long it takes to install the pre-amp I asked if there were some extra time if he minded staying up on the roof and playing around with the antenna orientation while I did signal checks inside. So I'll first take initial readings, then have him install the pre-amp, take more readings, then maybe adjust the antenna unless everything is just coming in great.

Does anyone know if WYFF and WHNS are broadcasting at the same power levels now as pre-hurricane?

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post #568 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 07:35 PM
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I'm not aware of any power dropage from WYFF or WHNS. I have found that WYFF is very "touchy" for me. I'll have a 90+% signal and then it will just drop out and then come back in. I think it could be multipath, but I don't experience it on any other channel. It was happening pre-hurricane, but it seems even worse now. Anybody else seeing this or is it just me? One thing that you might want to invest in is a rotor. Especially in this area where you have transmitters in different directions, getting your antenna lined up with the transmitter is very key in locking them in. I picked one up at Radio Shack for $99 (plus rotor cable) and it works well. I know you'd have to get that installed as well, but it is worth in if you continue to experience problems. I couldn't get WLOS at all, but once I put a rotor on it and spun it toward Asheville, I can nail it down all hours of day or night (except right now when their signal is too weak). I'd rather spend my money on a rotor than a preamp, but that's just me. I might add a preamp later on and try to pull in those weak Charlotte stations. Anybody else got anything to add?
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post #569 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 07:46 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by walterc
Just thought I'd pass along another bit of info on the whole pre-amp thing. I talked to my installer today, and he said he wasn't sure I'd see much difference since I have a short run from the antenna to the main set, and there should be very little loss of signal for the pre-amp to correct.

I'm not so sure about your installers opinion about the difference. My run was about 50 feet. I'm not a techical expert like some here, but I thought the process increased the signal level, not just eliminated the loss of signal. I'd be curious about other's experiences.
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post #570 of 10532 Old 09-23-2004, 10:37 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dashaund
One thing that you might want to invest in is a rotor. Especially in this area where you have transmitters in different directions, getting your antenna lined up with the transmitter is very key in locking them in... I might add a preamp later on and try to pull in those weak Charlotte stations. Anybody else got anything to add?

Thanks for the input. The rotor sounds like something I'd potentially do down the road, but it would be a little more expensive to get installed than just the pre-amp. Once the pre-amp is installed and I hear confirmation that WLOS is at pre-hurricane levels I'll then have to evaluate the signal I'm getting versus others in the area, and see if a rotor might be in order. I'm hoping not...

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