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Local HDTV Info and Reception

WA5IYX's Avatar WA5IYX
01:58 AM Liked: 10
post #121 of 221
06-30-2009 | Posts: 416
Joined: Apr 2009
Tnx the info. KDAL/KDLH was often seen/heard in these parts.
http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/KDLH-3.txt
http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/images/801009.jpg - from Jul 26, 1980 - 0213 CST
http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/ra/kdal75-a.ra - from Aug 5, 1975 - 1658 CST
denyart's Avatar denyart
02:46 PM Liked: 10
post #122 of 221
07-05-2009 | Posts: 737
Joined: Oct 2004
This is off the topic of OTA reception, but I was wondering if anyone in the area around Duluth or within the region has any experience with wintering a LCD in a lake cabin. My father in law has a 32" lcd he takes up to his cabin in Itasca county and he uses it all summer with Directv (I set up an extra dish for him) and now with OTA reception. I got 11, 13 and 31 all to come in on digital using a Winegard Metrostar 2000 omnidirectional. I also got Fox translators on 15 and 29. Anyway, he was asking if he could leave the LCD up there in an unheated cabin for the winter. I checked the specs on the set, and it had a storage temp listed as 20degF. I know it gets colder up there than that, but I wasn't sure if the manufacturer's info was really true, or just overly cautious. Has anyone tried wintering a LCD in temps simiar? Thanks

BTW: I got some good channel info on the stations I was able to receive up at his cabin and sent it to Trip, the webmaster at rabbitears.info.
jhendrickson's Avatar jhendrickson
06:01 PM Liked: 10
post #123 of 221
07-06-2009 | Posts: 11
Joined: Apr 2006
If the cabin is not heated at all during the winter I wouldn't chance it.

Your LIQUID crystal display has a good chance to freeze and rupture up there because it can easily get pretty far below -20 during the winter.

Is your cabin anywhere near Grand Rapids? I grew up there.
slinger45's Avatar slinger45
11:03 PM Liked: 10
post #124 of 221
07-13-2009 | Posts: 118
Joined: Feb 2005
anyone having horrible breakup with channel 3 lately?

i dvr how i met your mother at 7 and big bang theory at 830

HIMYM always breaks up....past 3 weeks, but BBT usually has been fine.

I checked the singnal strength and it pops between 80-88 like mad with channel 3 whereas all the other channels are much more consistent.

anyone else......?
Dr. Cool's Avatar Dr. Cool
01:33 AM Liked: 10
post #125 of 221
07-14-2009 | Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by slinger45 View Post

anyone having horrible breakup with channel 3 lately?

i dvr how i met your mother at 7 and big bang theory at 830

HIMYM always breaks up....past 3 weeks, but BBT usually has been fine.

I checked the singnal strength and it pops between 80-88 like mad with channel 3 whereas all the other channels are much more consistent.

anyone else......?

I used to have breakups when I used a poor antenna, breakups would happen even when signal strength appeared to be strong (above 80). After installing a really good antenna (like the Channel Master 4228) in my attic I've never had breakup problems again. It appears to me that tall trees would interfere with reception, the same way they interfere with my cell phone signal.
slinger45's Avatar slinger45
08:11 AM Liked: 10
post #126 of 221
07-14-2009 | Posts: 118
Joined: Feb 2005
I have a decent outdoor antenna and there arent really any trees in the way...this all started after the switchover....
Dr. Cool's Avatar Dr. Cool
11:54 PM Liked: 10
post #127 of 221
08-11-2009 | Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 2007
Wow, did you notice that PBS switched channel resolutions and now has 8.1 as its HD channel while 8.2 is now broadcasted in SD? The programming lineup however didn't change. It means for example that certain shows like NOVA cannot be watched anymore in HD during prime time... Really odd.
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
11:02 PM Liked: 12
post #128 of 221
08-12-2009 | Posts: 175
Joined: Dec 2007
8.2 is going to become a "second chance" channel. Not sure if that means a delay of 8.1's programming or a west coast PBS feed. They used to carry the west coast PBS feed on 8.4 before the MN Channel was launched.
Dr. Cool's Avatar Dr. Cool
03:11 PM Liked: 10
post #129 of 221
08-13-2009 | Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 2007
They need to fix the 8.2 aspect ratios however now that the subchannel is broadcasted in 480i (SD). Widescreen (16x9) shows are correctly broadcasted letterboxed and as such they are showing fine. 4x3 shows however have been wrongly letterboxed too, wasting screen resolution, as in the picture below:
LL
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
08:42 PM Liked: 12
post #130 of 221
08-16-2009 | Posts: 175
Joined: Dec 2007
They have had a lot of problems with postage-stamp effect (as described above), and worse, wrong aspect ratios on their feed to Charter Cable for a few days a few weeks ago. Everything seems to be resolved now, though. Could be related to the switch in HD from 8.2 to 8.1.
Dr. Cool's Avatar Dr. Cool
12:33 PM Liked: 10
post #131 of 221
08-17-2009 | Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 2007
Today (Monday) morning the 4x3 PBS Kids shows were yet shown with postage-stamp effect (incorrectly letterboxed in a small window). The problem was created by the conversion to 480i, somebody there really needs to take a look at it and fix it up.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA
10:44 PM Liked: 78
post #132 of 221
08-18-2009 | Posts: 14,596
Joined: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradhasbrouck View Post

When will WDIO and WIRT launch programming on Channels 10.3 and 13.3?

It's interesting that you mention it, because I don't have data for WDIO, but I do have data for WIRT, and I don't think there's much difference between them. WIRT has an encrypted subchannel sucking up 2.6 Mbps of bandwidth. I'd be curious to find out what's on it, but it's probably an SD feed for cable or something boring like that.

- Trip
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
07:33 PM Liked: 12
post #133 of 221
08-19-2009 | Posts: 175
Joined: Dec 2007
Yes, the encrypted subchannel is something boring. It's their RangeCam (a still image taken from the live video feed can also be seen at http://www.wdio.com/article/stories/...html?cat=10362 ). The encrypted subchannel is received at their Duluth master control from an antenna high up on the WDIO tower. The feed can also be used for news liveshots from the Iron Range.
WayOutThere's Avatar WayOutThere
03:58 PM Liked: 10
post #134 of 221
09-12-2009 | Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 2009
Hey, Does anyone else have this problem? I was getting decent reception of the Duluth Stations last spring with a power rabbit ear antenna in my attic and a converter box. I'm located between Bayfield, WI and Corni on a tall ridge. We don't watch much broadcast TV in the summer - when I tried it I got no signal at all(measured through the converter box). I thought my converter box or antenna was shot - so I bought a new box and antenna - but I still get no HDTV signal at all. Everything seems to be working. Has the Duluth stations changed something with their broadcast? It bums me out with the Packers/Vikings games coming up
slinger45's Avatar slinger45
07:42 PM Liked: 10
post #135 of 221
09-12-2009 | Posts: 118
Joined: Feb 2005
it seems to me that the signals have been worse since the switchover, but im not sure if thats the cause of your prob
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
08:37 PM Liked: 12
post #136 of 221
09-12-2009 | Posts: 175
Joined: Dec 2007
There has been no change to KBJR (6.1, 6.2, 6.4) or KQDS (21.1).

KDLH (3.1 and 3.2) stayed on the same DTV channel but increased power.

WDSE (8.1 through 8.4) and WDIO (10.1 and 10.2) moved digital from UHF to VHF. They should come in better if you have a VHF/UHF antenna. If you have a UHF-only antenna, they would be difficult to receive, especially at your distance.

At my family's cabin about 65 miles from the Duluth transmitters, only KQDS came in reliably before the transition and KBJR also came in at night. Now, KQDS, WDSE, and WDIO come in reliably, while KDLH and KBJR come in at night.
WayOutThere's Avatar WayOutThere
07:57 AM Liked: 10
post #137 of 221
09-13-2009 | Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 2009
Looks like the switch over is not my problem. I've tried every combination I can think of - switching cables, hooking up the antenna next to the TV(bypassing the long cable to the attic), using the RCA jacks or coax on the converter box, buying new converter box and new antenna, etc... But still I get no signal at all on the bar graph antenna signal level converter box menu. Any chance it is my TV. The two antenna's I've tried are not really designed for what I'm using them(at least pushing the limits of their reception). Right now I've got the Phillips MAN940 Outdoor Antenna from Walmart, which is primarily a UHF antenna. But still you'd think I'd get at least a little reception. Not the flat line I get now. Then there is the whole issue that I used to get most of the Duluth Channels - now nothing. This is diving me crazy.

Antenna Web says we are 58 miles from the transmitters, should be able to get 9 stations.

Anyone have a suggestion - Any help is appreciated
Dr. Cool's Avatar Dr. Cool
06:43 PM Liked: 10
post #138 of 221
09-13-2009 | Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 2007
Just a guess, but I noticed that the signal during winter tends to be slightly stronger due to the trees losing their leaves.
Jim LR's Avatar Jim LR
10:14 AM Liked: 10
post #139 of 221
09-15-2009 | Posts: 1
Joined: Sep 2009
We live west of Iron River WI, south of Mill Pond Lake, at a low elevation and have not been able to get channels 3 and 6 since the switch to digital last June. It's difficult to understand why we could receive them nearly perfectly up until then, but that's a whole other issue.

We decided to invest in a new antenna and started to do some research. AntennaWeb indicated that we were in a purple zone and it was verified by TVFool. We were considering the Winegard HD 8200U or the Winegard HD 7698P, but some information/reviews we found are making us reconsider getting a new antenna. We are afraid even if we do replace our existing antenna we still will not be able to get channels 3 or 6. Could anyone please offer comments, advice or your experiences? We would appreciate it, thanks much.
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
11:27 PM Liked: 12
post #140 of 221
09-15-2009 | Posts: 175
Joined: Dec 2007
The reason you can no longer get channels 3 and 6 is twofold:
-VHF low stations (channels 2-6) go farther than UHF stations (or at least they used to in analog)
-Channels 3 and 6 chose not to construct their digital facilities at maximum power. The max is 1,000kW, but KBJR is 384kW and KDLH is 381kW.

Can you receive KQDS 21.1 (FOX)? It is 1,000kW. If you can receive 21.1, there might be a chance of getting KBJR and KDLH with a bigger or taller antenna. If not, the prospects are not good.

Also, is your current antenna VHF-only or VHF/UHF? Many homes in the Northland have VHF-only antennas since the area didn't get a major UHF station until 1999. If the antenna is completely flat with no elements sticking up/down vertically, it is probably VHF-only. The digital versions of 3 and 6 are on UHF (33 and 19 respectively).
WayOutThere's Avatar WayOutThere
05:36 AM Liked: 10
post #141 of 221
09-28-2009 | Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 2009
Ya, I think that leaves may be part of my problem. When the leaves were down I did notice when the wind blew reception would be sketchy (branches moving?). The day last week when I got 21, was cloudy so maybe the signal was bouncing off the clouds? Still I find it strange that I get no signal 0% on the converter box, when for a brief moment I got 30% during my antenna install. I guess I'll wait for the leaves to fall and see what happens. I did install a new quad shield cable, with no change as all. Not really sure what else to do?
Dr. Cool's Avatar Dr. Cool
09:58 AM Liked: 10
post #142 of 221
09-29-2009 | Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayOutThere View Post

Ya, I think that leaves may be part of my problem. When the leaves were down I did notice when the wind blew reception would be sketchy (branches moving?). The day last week when I got 21, was cloudy so maybe the signal was bouncing off the clouds? Still I find it strange that I get no signal 0% on the converter box, when for a brief moment I got 30% during my antenna install. I guess I'll wait for the leaves to fall and see what happens. I did install a new quad shield cable, with no change as all. Not really sure what else to do?

You're right, this is exactly the same problem that I used to have. Wind would clearly reduce the quality of the signal. I'd bet that branch movements caused further deterioration of reception. My problem went away only after I got myself a pretty big antenna, one similar to the ChannelMaster CM-4228HD:
http://www.channelmaster.com/product...ID=34&catID=33
rvaidyan's Avatar rvaidyan
04:03 PM Liked: 10
post #143 of 221
09-29-2009 | Posts: 367
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Cool View Post

You're right, this is exactly the same problem that I used to have. Wind would clearly reduce the quality of the signal. I'd bet that branch movements caused further deterioration of reception. My problem went away only after I got myself a pretty big antenna, one similar to the ChannelMaster CM-4228HD:
http://www.channelmaster.com/product...ID=34&catID=33

What do you do about the VHF channels?
Dr. Cool's Avatar Dr. Cool
03:18 PM Liked: 10
post #144 of 221
09-30-2009 | Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvaidyan View Post

What do you do about the VHF channels?

After I changed the antenna, signal became so reliable that I didn't notice any change due to the transition. There could have been a change, but I didn't notice it. However, I don't live far from the towers, so I don't know how distance affects the outcome.

Here's a description of the topography that I have to deal with: the line of sight between the top of the towers and the roof of my house is obstructed by terrain ridges, and a good part of the pathway is covered by tall trees. This is why I believe that branches, foliage and wind had so much effect on the reception when I had lower gain antennas.

BTW, we have exactly the same problem with our cell phones at home. During winter, signal in the basement improves, during summer signal becomes intermittent, and when it's windy we tend to lose signal more frequently than when it's not windy.
bradhasbrouck's Avatar bradhasbrouck
03:44 PM Liked: 10
post #145 of 221
10-30-2009 | Posts: 16
Joined: Apr 2006
Despite KQDS-TV "FOX21" still has 1 Digital Channel.

However, when will KQDS-DT begin carrying Universal Sports on Channel 21.3?
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
09:02 PM Liked: 12
post #146 of 221
10-30-2009 | Posts: 175
Joined: Dec 2007
We have not set any plans for subchannels at this time. The long-term goal is to have subchannels, but it won't be anytime soon.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA
09:18 PM Liked: 78
post #147 of 221
10-30-2009 | Posts: 14,596
Joined: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Ellis View Post

We have not set any plans for subchannels at this time. The long-term goal is to have subchannels, but it won't be anytime soon.

Might want to send NBC an e-mail about that. http://www.universalsports.tv/Univer...html#Minnesota

- Trip
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
04:54 PM Liked: 12
post #148 of 221
10-31-2009 | Posts: 175
Joined: Dec 2007
Or maybe we (the staff) just haven't been told yet! Last time I talked with the engineers about this, we were far away from being able to originate more than one channel. I have to wonder if the listing is a mistake, especially since Charter 306 is already occupied by Fox Movie Channel (not related to us). The other local digital subchannels are in the 390's on Charter (excluding CW2 and My9).

I will check on Monday.
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
04:34 PM Liked: 12
post #149 of 221
11-02-2009 | Posts: 175
Joined: Dec 2007
Update: I am told the Universal Sports list showing 21.3 as an affiliate is an error.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA
04:17 PM Liked: 78
post #150 of 221
11-10-2009 | Posts: 14,596
Joined: Jun 2003
Assuming no extension is sought, yes. Flinn got his other stations on the air before their permits expired, so I suspect he'll get KCWV on the air as well.

- Trip

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