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post #331 of 4859 Old 10-08-2004, 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
A key resolution point will be whenever KOIN's analog contract with Comcast expires. At that point, Emmis will have to elect "must carry" or "retransmission consent" for the analog signal.*snip*

Well-informed read. I'd be curious, though, how long until that contract does expire. It's a distinct possibility that the contract might outlive the analog broadcast, which raises an interesting question what happens to "must carry" when there is no longer an analog signal to redistribute? Would it then automatically fall upon the digital broadcast, or would "must carry" simply cease to exist?

I rather doubt the latter, but this move by Emmis sets a rather uncomfortable precedent. If they succeed with this extortion, what station owner in the country isn't going to follow suit? And what then's to stop them from attempting to charge us to receive their signal OTA? If there are laws in place to prevent that from happening OTA, then they most certainly should apply to cable redistribution.

We already know, for all intents and purposes, Emmis want to become a pay service. With their owner's USDTV-like intentions, it's only a matter of time before they start siphoning off bandwidth from their HD channel to provide "value-added" multicasted services to paying subscribers. This is just a first step with cable.
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post #332 of 4859 Old 10-08-2004, 05:23 PM
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footballnut,

Oh how you would have vented much more if you had your HDTV last year during the superbowl when it was on CBS.

I and several others wrote to Koin/Emmis over the matter and received very child-like responses.

GREED is ugly and so is CBS on comcast.
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post #333 of 4859 Old 10-08-2004, 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by footballnut
I must back Comcast in this battle with cbs. ABC & NBC don't seem to have a problem with Comcast, only cbs so what does that say? I know HDTV viewers are in the minority but cbs certainly ****ed us off. Personally, I'll only watch cbs when they have something serious on and I'll try to boycott the ads as much as possible in protest. I'll probably tape the show to fastforward thru ads. Clearly this won't hurt cbs, but I'll feel better. I doubt I'll buy equipment just to see cbs in HD. When they're on Comcast, I will watch. Just venting!!

You're targetting the wrong organization. CBS has nothing to do with this; quite the opposite, CBS does have a retransmission agreement with Comcast for all their Owned & Operated affiliates. This is completely Emmis's battle, which holds a lot more than just CBS affiliates. As the Oregonian article stated, this is going on in all of Emmis's 14 markets, with only one having submitted to their terms (it doesn't mention which market, or which MSO, we don't even know if all the market's MSO's are on board).

So you can boycott ads all you want, just be sure it's the local ads, not the national unless you got some other beef with CBS
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post #334 of 4859 Old 10-08-2004, 07:11 PM
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Moorebid, Thank you for the clarification. Also, I would have gone bonkers last year regarding the Superbowl.
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post #335 of 4859 Old 10-08-2004, 08:16 PM
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Most retransmission contracts last three years and expire on the 31st of December. So the KOIN analog contract probably expires either 12/31/2004 or 12/31/2005 (if it had expired 12/31/2003, Comcast would have negotiated HD rights as part of the new contract, so I am ruling out 12/31/2006).

There are exceptions however and there could be contractual extension options-- such as Emmis might have the right to extend the term of the contract a year or more, keeping the other aspects of the contract the same. (Hopefully not, though.)


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post #336 of 4859 Old 10-08-2004, 09:14 PM
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Tonight CBS's smash hit "Joan of Arcadia" was broadcast by KOIN in only standard definition, and a phone call to the only telephone number on their web site was completely ineffectual in getting "the HDTV switch" thrown. (For that matter, why should anyone even need a phone number to get the switch thrown?)

So why, exactly, should Comcast pay Emmis for this kind of lackadaisical attention to HDTV quality?

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post #337 of 4859 Old 10-09-2004, 10:32 AM
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I don't get it. Emmis seems crazy. They and their advertisers are losing the richest, most TV-crazy viewers out there.
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post #338 of 4859 Old 10-09-2004, 10:42 AM
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Perhaps someone should be telling their advertisers that. And that those advertisers' messages might get more viewing by a rather affluent group on stations which are carried in HD on Comcast.
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post #339 of 4859 Old 10-09-2004, 10:47 AM
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I have EMailed them several times along with Comcast too - but - the last response I received from local KOIN executive kind of took the cake; he explained kind of like the article in the Oregonian, that since Comcast was getting paid for this signal - that they felt with their investment they should too.
I wrote back and told him, what he already knew of course, that YES Comcast was really making a BIG killing, they are charging us an extra $5 a month for ALL HD Signals and that includes the use of a not inexpensive HDTV/Cable Receiver. I did not hear back from him.

I try NOT to watch CH 6 - - - unless they have extra good match up of NFL Teams.

BEST to YOU! Michael
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post #340 of 4859 Old 10-09-2004, 12:39 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JimProuty
Tonight CBS's smash hit "Joan of Arcadia" was broadcast by KOIN in only standard definition, and a phone call to the only telephone number on their web site was completely ineffectual in getting "the HDTV switch" thrown. (For that matter, why should anyone even need a phone number to get the switch thrown?)

So why, exactly, should Comcast pay Emmis for this kind of lackadaisical attention to HDTV quality?

In KOIN's defense, via email I got this explanation of why Joan was broadcast only in standard definition on Friday, Oct 8:
Quote:


Due to the [presidential] debate, the show had to be delayed....we have no way to
record shows in HD at present.

So they didn't screw up: their capabilities are just limited. I look forward to the day when all this HDTV stuff is mainstream.

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post #341 of 4859 Old 10-10-2004, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cyberized
I have EMailed them several times along with Comcast too - but - the last response I received from local KOIN executive kind of took the cake; he explained kind of like the article in the Oregonian, that since Comcast was getting paid for this signal - that they felt with their investment they should too.

Which is an out-and-out LIE! And your response to them proves it

Quote:
I wrote back and told him, what he already knew of course, that YES Comcast was really making a BIG killing, they are charging us an extra $5 a month for ALL HD Signals and that includes the use of a not inexpensive HDTV/Cable Receiver. I did not hear back from him.

That $5/mo is for the rental of the receiver. That's it. It does not pay for ANY programming. If you had a ClearQAM receiver, you could get all the unencrypted HD channels just fine (which includes all of the locals), without paying for anything more than Limited Basic. If you subscribe to Digital Classic, then you get the rest of the "Basic" HD channels (ESPN, Discovery, INHD's); or any of the premiums as well (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz), but again, if you had a CableCARD-capable tuner, you still wouldn't pay anything additional.

The $5 (or $6.45 for Limited Basic customers) gets you a box, nothing more. Emmis's argument holds absolutely no water whatsoever, unless they consider the $9-13/mo cable's required by law to charge every customer "getting paid for their signal," in which case, Emmis is already receiving compensation in some form (unless they elected "must-carry"), they just want more.
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post #342 of 4859 Old 10-10-2004, 09:57 AM
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Just a quick question, sorry to break in on the Emmis bashing (they are bastards, but I don't really care about missing CBS).

Has anyone tried to contact their "informants" at comcast to find out what they may already be planning/not planning as far as carrying FOX/UPN after the stations go mutually OTA this month?

dev*
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post #343 of 4859 Old 10-10-2004, 11:31 PM
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If Fox doesn't allow playoffs in HDTV and the Superbowl is not in HDTV then we must write to our Senators and ask if they are committed to HDTV or is it just BS. They seem to want new Technology to spur jobs and growth then what is this ****? If they won't broadcast HDTV over Comcast then let's just go back to the 20 th century with SDTV. Stop all the sales of new TVs with HDTV and go back in time. How STUPID!!!
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post #344 of 4859 Old 10-11-2004, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by footballnut
If Fox doesn't allow playoffs in HDTV and the Superbowl is not in HDTV then we must write to our Senators and ask if they are committed to HDTV or is it just BS. They seem to want new Technology to spur jobs and growth then what is this ****? If they won't broadcast HDTV over Comcast then let's just go back to the 20 th century with SDTV. Stop all the sales of new TVs with HDTV and go back in time. How STUPID!!!

Again, nothing to do with the network, everything to do with the affiliate. In this case, chances are good that we'll be seeing Fox in HD on Comcast sooner rather than later. In addition to SonomaSearcher's comments regarding already existing agreements between Comcast and Meredith (our local Fox and UPN-affiliate owner), the Oregonian article also mentions, "Portland's Fox affiliate plans to launch its HDTV on Oct. 15 and expects Comcast will carry the signal." Good news all around

of course, we're still waiting for KPTV to get their splicer online (at least they're putting out 720p and PSIP as of three days ago) to pass through the network HD feed, but once that happens, then the ball's in Comcast's court

EDIT: Yeah, it's "Meredith," not "Meridith" corrected the misspelling.
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post #345 of 4859 Old 10-11-2004, 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by footballnut
I see on some other posts that Fox HD will be available in Portland around the 15th of this month. Does anyone know if that is when comcast will get it or is that for only the people with OTA? Thanks.

You probably saw the article in the business section of the Oregonian last Friday (I think) concerning the battle between Comcast and KOIN over their HD signal. The article claimed that all networks other than CBS will have HD signals on Comcast and that Fox is scheduled to come online on Oct 15.

(Sorry, obviously I didn't read the previous couple of posts before writing this.)

(EDIT #2. When I read the Oregonian story, I sent a letter to the editor stating two positions. 1) that I thought advertising was how KOIN made money and that having more viewers, no matter how they got the signal would be better, and 2) that for "flip-a-coin" programming, such as local news, I would not watch KOIN. Don't know if this will ever run, but because the Oregonian printed the original story, perhaps they will run a letter or two if they are eloquent or convincing.)
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post #346 of 4859 Old 10-11-2004, 02:13 PM
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me:

As a consumer of your product, KOIN TV in portland, I'd like to express my disgust at your unwillingness to playball with comcast. Comcast provides the HD-TV streams in unencrypted QAM format so that a TV with a builtin tuner can get ABC, NBC, PBS, and WB without paying any extra money. This means that your argument that comcast makes money off of providing the HD-TV feed falls flat on your face. Your actions are not generating any goodwill in the community. I ask that you reconsider your stand on this issue as it seems every other broadcaster has the consumers interest in mind, it is sad that you do not.

Thank you,
Joel Barsotti

Quote:


them:

Mr. Barsotti:
Thank you for taking the time to write with your comments.

I hope you will also express your concerns to Comcast and ask them to agree to sit down with us and work out a fair business deal. They already pay for much of the programming they package up and offer for sale to subscribers. We're not asking them to treat us differently, just fairly.

Again, your comments are appreciated.

David Lippoff
KOIN News 6 Vice President & General Manager


Quote:


me:

David,

From all appearances you are asking to be treated differently. KOPB, KATU, KGW and KWBP all have agreed to comcasts terms and in the very near future KPTV and KPDX are expected to sign on. That leave you as the lone station holding out for money. Comcast does not make an additional dime from providing those channels in clear QAM encoding to anyone with a set that will pick them up. This all makes your parent company seem very greedy, and I am not the only one with this impression.

You might want to browse this thread to find out the general perception of you companies action:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...37#post4471237

Thank you for your time,
Joel Barsotti

Quote:


Mr. Barsotti:
Thanks again for responding.

I guess all can say at this point is that, asking to be treated differently doesn't make our position wrong. Comcast does indeed make money by offering the HD package, it's part of their business plan. We just want to participate, given the investment we've made in digital.

David


So summing up, they have no shame.

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post #347 of 4859 Old 10-12-2004, 09:03 AM
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Joel, Your letter and replies by David show how serious this problem has become. David basically says that unless Comcast and others agree to pay them, they won't budge. As others have stated, my protest will be to watch cbs only if necessary. Also, I won't watch it live but tape it so I can skip commercials. Thanks for sharing your experience with David.
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post #348 of 4859 Old 10-12-2004, 09:19 AM
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If we really wanted to escalate this we take it directly to the advertisers. If I am forced to watch NCIS in standard def and I see a local ad I might call that local business and tell them how unhappy I am with KOIN and in turn with them for supporting KOIN with their advertising dollars. KOIN can ignore us but they can not well ignore paying advertisers.
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post #349 of 4859 Old 10-12-2004, 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by NikeMan
If we really wanted to escalate this we take it directly to the advertisers. If I am forced to watch NCIS in standard def and I see a local ad I might call that local business and tell them how unhappy I am with KOIN and in turn with them for supporting KOIN with their advertising dollars. KOIN can ignore us but they can not well ignore paying advertisers.

I agree. I think a few polite, well-written letters to KOIN's local advertisers would do wonders for their attitude.
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post #350 of 4859 Old 10-12-2004, 12:50 PM
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I have heard that there already was some bad blood between KOIN and Comcast. I don't know the details, but apparently KOIN put in some equipment or cabling for use by Comcast, and then Comcast pulled out on the deal and decided to do it all at their offices. Again, I don't know any more than this, but KOIN may feel that Comcast shafted them once and now they're getting back at them by holding out on high-def. Which leave us in the middle.

I like the idea of writing to local advertisers. Those who have spots on the the evening news shows would be prime candidates.
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post #351 of 4859 Old 10-12-2004, 12:57 PM
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Anyone want to post the contact info for local KOIN advertisers here?
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post #352 of 4859 Old 10-12-2004, 12:59 PM
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The worst part of the whole KOIN/Comcast feud is that I have to side with Comcast... and I hate doing that.

First time I've ever agreed with Comcast about anything.
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post #353 of 4859 Old 10-12-2004, 04:11 PM
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Wouldn't it also help to notify CBS of this? Wouldn't they be mad if they found out that one of their affiliates was screwing it's veiwers? I mean, if we don't watch CBS because of this, it has to affect them too right?
Maybe they can't do anything because of contractual obligations, but at least it could apply some pressure.

And reading that post from Sotti, man that's like the same answer I got almost 1 year ago. This is pathetic.
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post #354 of 4859 Old 10-12-2004, 05:06 PM
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The most important point to make for the advertisers is that they're not getting their money's worth since Emmis is shutting out what I guess to be a rather affluent audience. Comcast might be willing to give some rough numbers on how many people in the metro-area have HDTV, which would also be useful to point out.

This might not cause an advertiser to abandon KOIN, but it would probably be a bargaining chip for any advertiser that reads it. This makes life more difficult for Emmis, since they might have to strike less profitable deals with advertisers.

To make this most effective, I suggest that a simple but professional-looking webpage be made that advertisers/network executives can be directed to with an email. Such a page can be a rallying point for Emmis critics, which is something else that companies hate to see. Now we just need someone with webskills, heh.

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post #355 of 4859 Old 10-13-2004, 06:57 AM
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Question: If Fox HD comes on-line on or about 10/15, how will we know it? Will Comcast send out emails? Just keep surfing the 700 channels? Will we have to reset cable boxes? I'm new at this, so I don't know what happened before when new channels appeared.
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post #356 of 4859 Old 10-13-2004, 08:41 AM
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well when fox does come up it'll be on 712, and UPN which most people don't mention, but is part of the conversion should come up on 713.

At least from the precedence set with the other broadcast channels.

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post #357 of 4859 Old 10-13-2004, 09:43 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DevlinNulland

To make this most effective, I suggest that a simple but professional-looking webpage be made that advertisers/network executives can be directed to with an email. Such a page can be a rallying point for Emmis critics, which is something else that companies hate to see. Now we just need someone with webskills, heh.

Dev

My profession is web developer. If someone could come up with the professional sounding copy to put on the page I could throw something together and put it online.
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post #358 of 4859 Old 10-13-2004, 10:20 AM
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Didn't that article in the Oregonian say that 10% of the TV owners have HDTV now? I wonder if comcast would be willing to provide us with subscriber numbers.
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post #359 of 4859 Old 10-13-2004, 12:38 PM
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Just saw on the OTA thread that UPN is 1080i, now I guess we wait to see how long it takes to get it on Comcast. I guess I can just switch back and forth to my Sammy 165. Would solve the CBS issue also, it is just hard to reach the TOS cable.
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post #360 of 4859 Old 10-13-2004, 12:58 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Moorebid
If you had a ClearQAM receiver, you could get all the unencrypted HD channels just fine (which includes all of the locals), without paying for anything more than Limited Basic.

I have a Hitatchi 57S700 which has an ATSC/QAM OTA and Cable compatible tuner. I susbscribe to Comcast Normal Cable (Analog Limited Basic + Expanded Basic). I do not receive any digital channels over cable. I tried it, but no such luck. You have to susbscribe to one of the digital packages for the "Clear" digital channels to be unfiltered and delivered to your home. Switching to Digital Classic would add ten dollars to my monthly bill (plus tax). It's no big deal for me, since I use a rooftop antenna to receive the local digital broadcasts, and it works great.

Comcast wouldn't be using up bandwidth for digital channels if they didn't make money on them. They need digital to be able to compete with satellite.
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