Traverse City, MI - HDTV - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 02:00 PM
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I have a friend directly south of you on Omena Bay with a tower and a rotor. He is fortunate to have a clear view down the Bay. I know there is a hill and trees between your location.
I'm wondering if your antenna and amplifier are designed for UHF? I know that trying different antennas finally worked for me. I have 2 UHF antennas you are welcome to borrow if you want to try that approach.

John
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post #812 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by water1 View Post

I have a friend directly south of you on Omena Bay with a tower and a rotor. He is fortunate to have a clear view down the Bay. I know there is a hill and trees between your location.
I'm wondering if your antenna and amplifier are designed for UHF? I know that trying different antennas finally worked for me. I have 2 UHF antennas you are welcome to borrow if you want to try that approach.

Are your UHF antennas outdoor or indoor? I doubt indoor antennas would do much for me and the outdoor antennas are so bulky and large that I can't see as testing would be practical.

The UHF part of my antenna resembles the Terk model which looks like an arrow.

The TVfool site is encouraging. It shows the signal strength of all the channels next year to be equal to or greater than all the stations I'm currently receiving. It shows the weakest channel next year to be ch 29 and I've had no problem getting that. It also shows ch 9 to increase in signal strength for me even though it's moving about 20 miles south. So it looks like I'll be OK if I get a rotor.
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post #813 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post

Are your UHF antennas outdoor or indoor? I doubt indoor antennas would do much for me and the outdoor antennas are so bulky and large that I can't see as testing would be practical.

The UHF part of my antenna resembles the Terk model which looks like an arrow.

The TVfool site is encouraging. It shows the signal strength of all the channels next year to be equal to or greater than all the stations I'm currently receiving. It shows the weakest channel next year to be ch 29 and I've had no problem getting that. It also shows ch 9 to increase in signal strength for me even though it's moving about 20 miles south. So it looks like I'll be OK if I get a rotor.

The two I have are outdoor and quite small but are designed stricly for UHF and long distance. The only difficulty would be getting them to your mast location. You should get the make andmodel number of your amplifier also to see if it is designed for UHF.
How is your antenna mounted? Rooftop or tower? Can you reach it standing on roof?
Are you using a seperate digital receiver or a tv with built in ATSC tuner?

John
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post #814 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by water1 View Post

The two I have are outdoor and quite small but are designed stricly for UHF and long distance. The only difficulty would be getting them to your mast location. You should get the make andmodel number of your amplifier also to see if it is designed for UHF.
How is your antenna mounted? Rooftop or tower? Can you reach it standing on roof?
Are you using a seperate digital receiver or a tv with built in ATSC tuner?

My antenna is what I would call a tower. It's on a pole held by a tripod. There are bars, like latter steps, on the tripod that I climb in order to reach the pole and loosen the bolts so I can rotate it.

I'm pretty sure my amplifier is designed for UHF 'cause when I unplug it, I don't get anything worth a darn.

I'm using a separate digital receiver.
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post #815 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post

My antenna is what I would call a tower. It's on a pole held by a tripod. There are bars, like latter steps, on the tripod that I climb in order to reach the pole and loosen the bolts so I can rotate it.

I'm pretty sure my amplifier is designed for UHF 'cause when I unplug it, I don't get anything worth a darn.

I'm using a separate digital receiver.

It sound like mounting my antennas would not be too difficult then although the one needs about 30" of vertical mast to mount.
I'm not sure I have understood but I though you were only receiving the analog stations. If that is correct, you can't presume the amplifier is UHF compatible.

I'm using a Channel Master 7775. See this page for a comparison of preamplifiers:
http://www.solidsignal.com/antennas/preamplifiers.asp

I have this antenna in band C (channel 27-34)
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SS4873

I also have this antenna:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...?PROD=SCM4221A

John
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post #816 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 04:20 PM
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In the digital realm I'm receiving 29 and 27 (and their sub channels) very nicely. I'm also receiving 33. If I rotate the antenna I can get 7, but I lose 29. What I haven't been able to get at all is ch 9 (CBS).
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post #817 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post

In the digital realm I'm receiving 29 and 27 (and their sub channels) very nicely. I'm also receiving 33. If I rotate the antenna I can get 7, but I lose 29. What I haven't been able to get at all is ch 9 (CBS).

With that understanding and knowing things will change next srping I would probably wait until the stations change their transmitting frequencies and then try an antenna optimized for ch 9 with a rotor. I'm not sure how my reception will be impacted by the frequency change. I think I'm 60 miles from the ch 9 antenna so that puts you at maybe 70 miles. That may be beyond the range of any antenna. My antenna is optimized for current UHF assignments so I'll probably have to change antennas then.
The rotor or an antenna combiner will probably be a good choice for you. It depends on how narrow a reception pattern your eventual antenna will have.
My friend on Omena bay got cable this year so maybe they will run it around the road to you in the future.

John
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post #818 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by water1 View Post

With that understanding and knowing things will change next srping I would probably wait until the stations change their transmitting frequencies and then try an antenna optimized for ch 9 with a rotor. I'm not sure how my reception will be impacted by the frequency change. I think I'm 60 miles from the ch 9 antenna so that puts you at maybe 70 miles. That may be beyond the range of any antenna. My antenna is optimized for current UHF assignments so I'll probably have to change antennas then.
The rotor or an antenna combiner will probably be a good choice for you. It depends on how narrow a reception pattern your eventual antenna will have.
My friend on Omena bay got cable this year so maybe they will run it around the road to you in the future.

It's looking like ch 9 will be the big challenge post transition. Let's hope they pipe out some power to reach us folks up north.

Are VHF antennas directional? I can't tell by looking at mine what direction it points
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post #819 of 1760 Old 07-12-2008, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post

Are VHF antennas directional? I can't tell by looking at mine what direction it points


Yes they are unless you have a disk (saucer) type antenna. The shorter elements should point toward the broadcasting tower.
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post #820 of 1760 Old 07-19-2008, 08:03 AM
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Due to a recent reroofing project, I had to take down the CM 4228 and 4221. This is the current setup. The top Yagi was cut for channel 50 (WPBN). The boom is a square PVC tube and the elements are 1/4" threaded rod. In the middle is a salvaged CM 4221 with the screen removed pointed toward WWTV. I experimented with it on the roof to get WWTV off the front and WPBN from the back. (WPBN is due north from me and Cadillac is at 150 degress). The Gray-Hoverman at the bottom is pointed at 55 degrees (Kalkaska) for WGTU, WFQX and WCMV. The preamp is a CM 7777. This temporary setup is actually working quite well. Too bad, I'll need a VHF antenna come next year. Back to the shop...

Attachment 115622
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Attachment 115624
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post #821 of 1760 Old 07-20-2008, 07:27 AM
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Are WPBN and WWTV the only two channels switching to VHF?
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post #822 of 1760 Old 07-20-2008, 07:50 AM
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Are WPBN and WWTV the only two channels switching to VHF?

For this DMA, yes. They will be using their current analog channels (7 & 9) for digital come next year.
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post #823 of 1760 Old 07-22-2008, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mesickstan View Post

For this DMA, yes. They will be using their current analog channels (7 & 9) for digital come next year.

WWUP-DT will be switching from 49 (now) back to 10 in Feb. too.

Any word on a FOX tip of the mitt/Eastern U.P. DT transmitter yet? Kalkaska is nice for TC/Cadillac and Gaylord, but there's still a coverage gap in the northern parts of the DMA.
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post #824 of 1760 Old 07-29-2008, 05:50 AM
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Hey guffy1 can you give me a heads up with the picture quality on Directv? how do the movie channels look compared to Charters HD ones? Charters is starting to get some artifacts again, looking pretty soft, and it looks like Directv will be providing HD locals for Traverse area by years end
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post #825 of 1760 Old 08-12-2008, 09:34 AM
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EL SEGUNDO, Calif., Jul 28, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- DIRECTV, Inc., the nation's leading satellite television service provider, continues to strengthen its HD presence with the addition of 44 new HD local channel markets. By the end of 2008, DIRECTV will provide local HD broadcast channels in 121 cities, representing more than 88 percent of U.S. TV households. DIRECTV will begin the rollout of the new HD local markets in August and continue through the end of the year. The new markets include:

November: Des Moines-Ames, Iowa; El Paso, Texas; Fort Wayne, Ind.; La Crosse-Eau Claire, Wis.; Peoria-Bloomington, Ill.; Rockford, Ill.; Sioux Falls, S.D.; Traverse City-Cadillac

http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-...-schedule.html

Funny... DirecTV will be offering the local HD channels to the entire DMA when half of the stations over the air digital signal won't cover it (FOX, NBC, and PBS in most of the Eastern U.P.).
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post #826 of 1760 Old 08-14-2008, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this question has been asked to death, but has anyone heard anything about more HD channels from Charter? I thought they'd at least get USA or CNBC up in time for the Olympics. There is going to be a mass exodus to Directv when they get our locals up this fall.

"I've been ruminating. And by ruminating, I mean pondering. Not chewing my cud."
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post #827 of 1760 Old 08-15-2008, 07:32 AM
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Haven't heard of any new ones, but they are moving Toon Disney to the Digital Tier soon, maybe that means somethings up, but got to tell ya my HD quality is getting pretty shaky here, a lot of artifacts again, watching Transformers the other night and it kept breaking up all over, and after seeing it on HD DVD, man there's no comparison. Almost not worth watching HD on Charter anymore, but I do got a good deal for a year.
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post #828 of 1760 Old 08-15-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHuibregtse View Post

I know this question has been asked to death, but has anyone heard anything about more HD channels from Charter? I thought they'd at least get USA or CNBC up in time for the Olympics. There is going to be a mass exodus to Directv when they get our locals up this fall.

Just about every HDTV made in the last 3 to 5 years has a QAM tuner that can be used to pick up our HD locals+ FSNHD. All one has to do is subscribe to Charter internet or even channels 2-13 and they will get the QAM HD channels.

So if one is interested in D* I cant see any reason why the lack of our HD locals would hold them back from switching. I would advise to make sure and research the QAM tuner capabilities of ones set before making the switch though. Many lesser HDTV's such as Vizio, Westinghouse and Olevia and the like are known to not pick up all the QAM channels. Not sure why, but I have a few friends with Vizios that only get FOX, ABC and FSNHD via the QAM tuner in their Vizio. I also owned a Magnavox a few years back with the same issues.

Also, TVB, just for the record, Transformers is plagued with artifacting on D* as well, just so everyone knows. D* and Charter HD are on about the same level, IMO. Maybe D* has a tiny edge, but thats about it.

The problem with Transformers isnt neccessarily a Charter or D* problem though, also just for the record. HBO is known to send out their programming with an anemic bit rate. Any provider including FIOS is going to have artifacting on the HBO channels.

Personally I enjoyed Transformers on upconverted SD DVD via my A1 way more than the broadcast HD version.
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post #829 of 1760 Old 08-15-2008, 11:23 AM
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Thanks guffy on that, So I take it that HBO still uses mpeg2 and directv converts that to mpeg4? and if so do you get any HD channel's from Directv that are originally coded in mpeg4 and if so how do they look?
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post #830 of 1760 Old 08-16-2008, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvb6171 View Post

Thanks guffy on that, So I take it that HBO still uses mpeg2 and directv converts that to mpeg4? and if so do you get any HD channel's from Directv that are originally coded in mpeg4 and if so how do they look?


Im pretty sure but not positive that FoodHD and HGTVHD are both MPEG-4 encoded from the source, and Im pretty sure those are the only 2 channels as of right now. Those channels are crisp and vibrant, more so than most, but they are still succeptible to motion artifacting. I see a good amount of artifacting during scene transitions on both channels.

HBO is in the process of converting their encodes over to MPEG-4, should be anyday now. They are also going to mandate a minimum MPEG-4 bit rate of 8 mbs, which is a pretty decent bit rate for MPEG-4.
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post #831 of 1760 Old 08-16-2008, 05:20 PM
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Thanks guffy1 for the info, has helped out alot, when HBO does switch give me an update on how it looks, right now I see no reason to switch to Directv.
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post #832 of 1760 Old 08-25-2008, 08:35 PM
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What is the reason for having a directional transmitter/antenna??

I would think Mult-directional would be better.

And after looking at the coverage maps, it's nice to know that those of us in the Straits area are only losing one affiliate (WFQX).

As for WFQX, I don't understand how it can serve as an affilate if it doesn't cover the entire market (after the digital-switch).
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post #833 of 1760 Old 08-26-2008, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianomany2k View Post

What is the reason for having a directional transmitter/antenna??

I would think Mult-directional would be better.

And after looking at the coverage maps, it's nice to know that those of us in the Straits area are only losing one affiliate (WFQX).

As for WFQX, I don't understand how it can serve as an affilate if it doesn't cover the entire market (after the digital-switch).

As Heritage Broadcasting owns the local CBS and FOX stations, it might be worth your while to contact the chief engineer at 9&10, Lowell Shore (lowellshore@9and10news.com). Another engineer there is Peter Ludviksen (PeteLudviksen@9and10news.com). Lowell has been with them since 1960. I think he whittled their first transmitter and tower out of wood back then. Let us know what he says.
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post #834 of 1760 Old 08-27-2008, 06:54 AM
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post #835 of 1760 Old 08-27-2008, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianomany2k View Post

What is the reason for having a directional transmitter/antenna??

I would think Mult-directional would be better.

And after looking at the coverage maps, it's nice to know that those of us in the Straits area are only losing one affiliate (WFQX).

As for WFQX, I don't understand how it can serve as an affilate if it doesn't cover the entire market (after the digital-switch).

WCML (PBS) will be pretty crappy too. Here's a courteous email I received from their engineer after pointing this out:

"Hello. The DTV Conversion has been a very labor and revenue
intensive project for us. We recognized the problem in the eastern UP
early in the project. We invested a significant amount of time in
looking at the possibility to improve CMU Public TV coverage. We
searched for land, completed FAA tower studies, investigated funding
sources, and FCC channel spacing. The facts of life hit when we learned
we did not have the resources to do everything we wanted, on day one.
On the positive side, the FCC gave us 100 KW effective radiating power
on channel 24, for our post transition allocation. We petitioned the
FCC for an increase to 300 KW. The power increase will help but is not
an acceptable solution. Mike, don't give up on us and I'll not give up
on the eastern UP.

I'll try to keep you informed on our progress. Feel free to drop me a
line from time to time.

Thanks for your thoughts, Randy"
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post #836 of 1760 Old 08-27-2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mesickstan View Post

As Heritage Broadcasting owns the local CBS and FOX stations, it might be worth your while to contact the chief engineer at 9&10, Lowell Shore (lowellshore@9and10news.com). Another engineer there is Peter Ludviksen (PeteLudviksen@9and10news.com). Lowell has been with them since 1960. I think he whittled their first transmitter and tower out of wood back then. Let us know what he says.

Band-aid solution.... ask them to put FOX on 10.2 Not sure if I spoke to Lowell or Peter, but one of them thought it was a good idea. I'd reiterate that. It would be an easy solution.
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post #837 of 1760 Old 08-28-2008, 07:39 AM
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Big 10 in HD is on Charter now
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post #838 of 1760 Old 08-28-2008, 10:02 AM
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Big 10 in HD is on Charter now

Very cool, glad to see you Charter subs finally getting this channel. Better late than never.
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post #839 of 1760 Old 08-29-2008, 04:17 PM
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Big 10 in HD is on Charter now

I just got the email about this too. Haven't checked yet but is it up and running or coming soon? Which channel?


edit: nevermind. I just checked and it's up and running. Channel 58 and 767 HD!
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post #840 of 1760 Old 08-30-2008, 01:24 PM
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I was updating my QAM channel list today and I see there is a second FSN Detroit on 101.11.

On the cable channel 35 they are showing the Red Wings Parade, but on the other channel it is a football game from the PAC 10.

I also noticed the picture quality of BTN is much better at 80.5 compared to the one being shown on 58.
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