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post #5041 of 6117 Old 11-07-2009, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I'm just not fully understanding how the thing works, but it seems like I can see the weak Raleigh signals on 42/48/49, as well as WVIR-32, but not Richmond on 22/25/26, at least not on the roof antenna. Hook up the Silver Sensor and I can see them just fine, even if they won't decode and give me an MER number.

And UVa is so far, so good. I can't wait for Christmas break. I plan to come visiting.

- Trip

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post #5042 of 6117 Old 11-07-2009, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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The atmosphere is being helpful to Roanoke reception right now.

WBRA-03: 25.8 dB
WFXR-17: >36.0 dB
WDBJ-18: 29.2 dB
WWCW-20: 34.3 dB
WDRL-24: No lock
WSLS-30 >36.0 dB
WPXR-36: 32.4 dB

And this is being measured at my computer, not coming into my room, where the numbers were before. This is after three splitters.

EDIT: Measured from the same place where the antenna feed comes into my room:

WBRA-03: 26.1 dB (7.2 dBmV)
WSET-13: 31.5 dB (-6.3 dBmV)
WFXR-17: >36.0 dB (3.3 dBmV)
WDBJ-18: 29.2 dB (2.4 dBmV)
WWCW-20: 34.4 dB (9.9 dBmV)
WDRL-24: No lock (-21.8 dBmV)
WSLS-30: >36.0 dB (-1.9 dBmV)
WPXR-36: 35.2 dB (-9.2 dBmV)

- Trip

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post #5043 of 6117 Old 11-08-2009, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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North Carolina is in this morning, and it's trashed WSET-13's signal (down to an unlockable level on the analyzer; WinTV-D is saying 15 dB). Also dragged down, WPXR-36 down to 22.4 dB on the analyzer (19 dB on the WinTV-D).

- Trip

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post #5044 of 6117 Old 11-08-2009, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Went up in the attic and measured the input, and it turns out the pre-amps are not being overloaded, all that noise and whatnot are coming off the antenna. I have no idea where from.

So everything was left alone for the time being. I go back to school in a few minutes, so you won't have to hear minute by minute updates from me anymore.

- Trip

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post #5045 of 6117 Old 11-10-2009, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Went up in the attic and measured the input, and it turns out the pre-amps are not being overloaded, all that noise and whatnot are coming off the antenna. I have no idea where from.

So everything was left alone for the time being. I go back to school in a few minutes, so you won't have to hear minute by minute updates from me anymore.

- Trip

Darn it - did we not teach you that you need to wax your antenna on a regular basis??

Welcome to the wacky world of RF. You know this by now.
You just never know...
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post #5046 of 6117 Old 11-14-2009, 10:30 PM
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Trip and WDBJAlan might be interested to know that I am, as I type, sitting in my house 3 miles south of Middlesboro, Kentucky, and am watching WDBJ OTA. Pretty neat.
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post #5047 of 6117 Old 11-15-2009, 05:30 PM
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Trip and WDBJAlan might be interested to know that I am, as I type, sitting in my house 3 miles south of Middlesboro, Kentucky, and am watching WDBJ OTA. Pretty neat.

Cool. I would suppose this is a "band" opening - or is this really on a regular basis?? There used to be a guy outside of Midlothian VA that got us on a regular basis - that is way back when we were one of the few running full legal power @ 460Kw.

Alan
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post #5048 of 6117 Old 11-15-2009, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by wdbjalan View Post

Darn it - did we not teach you that you need to wax your antenna on a regular basis??

Welcome to the wacky world of RF. You know this by now.
You just never know...

Alan,

How come you didn't teach Trip about finishing his diary so everyone can learn about his final week with you and the guys from WDBJ. I hope you put in the good word so Trip can eventually come back on a more permanent basis once he graduates.
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post #5049 of 6117 Old 11-15-2009, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmking12370 View Post

How come you didn't teach Trip about finishing his diary so everyone can learn about his final week with you and the guys from WDBJ.

Oops! I've gotten so wrapped up in school things that I just never got back to it.

I still remember it, so I'll get it down at some point. Plus I took an absolute boatload of pictures that I need to sort through.

- Trip

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post #5050 of 6117 Old 11-16-2009, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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So I was poking at SiliconDust when I saw the attached picture.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...1&d=1258424115

- Trip
LL

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post #5051 of 6117 Old 11-17-2009, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by wdbjalan View Post

Cool. I would suppose this is a "band" opening - or is this really on a regular basis?? There used to be a guy outside of Midlothian VA that got us on a regular basis - that is way back when we were one of the few running full legal power @ 460Kw.

Alan

A "Band Opening" at UHF channel 18 at 494-500 Mhz? Highly unlikely with the low sunspot numbers we are seeing now, but tropospheric ducting is more likely to be the reason.
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post #5052 of 6117 Old 11-17-2009, 08:34 AM
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A "Band Opening" at UHF channel 18 at 494-500 Mhz? Highly unlikely with the low sunspot numbers we are seeing now, but tropospheric ducting is more likely to be the reason.

Sorry - that's what I meant by "band opening".. Comes from my ham days..
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post #5053 of 6117 Old 11-19-2009, 07:19 PM
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A "Band Opening" at UHF channel 18 at 494-500 Mhz? Highly unlikely with the low sunspot numbers we are seeing now, but tropospheric ducting is more likely to be the reason.

Hey, FOXTV. It's good to see you back, even if under your other name. I was trying to find one of your old posts the other day.

Bob Lee
retired TV guy
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post #5054 of 6117 Old 11-20-2009, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dmking12370 View Post

Alan,

How come you didn't teach Trip about finishing his diary so everyone can learn about his final week with you and the guys from WDBJ. I hope you put in the good word so Trip can eventually come back on a more permanent basis once he graduates.

He doesn't need any good words from us - I will be glad to give him one..
He is a good kid (I say that since I am 45).. But as an engineering grad myself, once you get into school you get just wrapped up with labs, reports, study. I would think UVa will be letting out this week. I am sure he will become active again.. ( for a week or so.. )
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post #5055 of 6117 Old 11-21-2009, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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My last class before Thanksgiving lets out at 12:15 on Tuesday, but I might have to work on an Electronics II project before I can leave. Either way, I hope to be home on Tuesday evening. At which time, I will be hooking my analyzer to the roof antenna again.

My computer has been giving me some major headaches over the last few days. Since it's rather important that it work properly, it's my top priority. I was planning to change operating systems over Christmas break (from Kubuntu to Sidux) but at the rate it seems to be deteriorating, I might do so over Thanksgiving instead. It would suck up most of the time I have, I figure. I want to hold off until Christmas break (last exam is on December 14) since I have to mail the system off to Toshiba to get my headphone jack fixed and I could put Vista back on it before I ship it off (making them happy), but this is just insane. I might just call and ask them if I can keep my hard drives when I mail it off and do the reload over Thanksgiving.

Whether these things get done over Christmas or Thanksgiving, I have a bit of a list of things I want to do. I want to get pictures and information about my new analyzer posted ( http://www.rabbitears.info/specan ). I do need to finish typing up my last week at WDBJ, but I won't do that until I can post the pictures, which I'm not going to do until I reload the system because otherwise Gwenview and Konqueror are just so slow right now that it'll take forever to sort them.

I've also got four or five new features on RabbitEars that are currently half finished that I would like to finish. I'm working on a mobile version of the site that is compatible with the DS Web Browser (as well as other mobile devices: http://ds.rabbitears.info ), a way of performing a "poor man's interference analysis" that needs some mathematical work done to it, ownership maps which show where an owner has coverage, including translators (mostly for statewide PBS networks), making the MediaFLO section of the site a little more informative and easier to use, and some other odds and ends which are slipping my mind right at the moment.

So we'll have to see.

- Trip

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post #5056 of 6117 Old 11-22-2009, 02:41 PM
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My computer has been giving me some major headaches over the last few days. Since it's rather important that it work properly, it's my top priority. I was planning to change operating systems over Christmas break (from Kubuntu to Sidux) but at the rate it seems to be deteriorating, I might do so over Thanksgiving instead.
- Trip

Cool - I never heard of Sidux - I had to go look it up. Based on Debian - I might have to mess with this in a VM on the mac.

I sent you those elevation patterns at your college email address.

Also you might be interested I (not I - the tower crew) will be taking down the Channel 7 Traveling Wave antenna in December (wx permitting).
It's nothing now but a lightning rod, and we have to lamp it, and paint it. I can get it taken down for less than a tower painting!

Obviously I will have pictures..
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post #5057 of 6117 Old 11-22-2009, 02:51 PM
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I am a Fedora person myself. Got into using RedHat when a friend who worked for RedHat years ago at RTP got me into Linux and when RedHat took the open source to Fedora, I just followed along. I still have an official RedHat 6.2 release with box on the shelf! FedoraProject just released Fedora 12 last week.

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post #5058 of 6117 Old 11-22-2009, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I was looking for a new Debian-based KDE-focused distro and there were only a few options so far as I saw.

- Linux Mint, which is Kubuntu based. No thanks.
- MEPIS
- Sidux

I tried MEPIS but it was still running KDE 3.5.10, so that ruled it out.

Sidux seems pretty amazing so far. It ran faster off the DVD in my dying P4 desktop than Kubuntu does on my laptop. I also ran it in VirtualBox on my laptop and it was faster than Kubuntu on native hardware. I'm hopeful it blazes on my native hardware. I need to back up my stuff because I plan to redo my partitions and everything.

I'll generate a map for WDBJ-18 at my nearest convenience. Hopefully over Thanksgiving.

- Trip

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post #5059 of 6117 Old 11-23-2009, 08:03 AM
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Hey, FOXTV. It's good to see you back, even if under your other name. I was trying to find one of your old posts the other day.


Hello, You won't see me on here much at all. To much Animosity still exists on this forum, and I don't see that changing any time soon. I deleted all of my previous posts, and have very little need for this forum now since most of my posts created negative counter posts from the "Know It All's" on here. I am now a regular contributor on this forum ( http://www.dtvusaforum.com ) where the atmosphere is much more laid back with very little criticism of contributors, and valuable input is appreciated and acknowledged.There are a few to many to many know it all's still on here, and I don't need a single one of them, nor do I miss them at all.
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post #5060 of 6117 Old 11-23-2009, 05:45 PM
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I am a Fedora person myself. Got into using RedHat when a friend who worked for RedHat years ago at RTP got me into Linux and when RedHat took the open source to Fedora, I just followed along. I still have an official RedHat 6.2 release with box on the shelf! FedoraProject just released Fedora 12 last week.

I've used Fedora also - It seems OK but is a little behind the curve since RH seems to release this as a more stable option. And also they tend to lean towards gnome. All the linux heads I know seem to lean that way also, but I have always had better "results" with a KDE based system. The one I liked back then was Mandrake until they went to a "get if for nothing - get bottom line" attitude. Then about the same time Mac OS X was born - based on Free BSD. I remember going in to our artists room - new machine. Mac OS X.
Sat down and played - wow - a terminal - I typed TOP.
LINUX!!! That was the day I converted to Mac OS X.
Still fiddle with Linux though...
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post #5061 of 6117 Old 11-24-2009, 04:50 AM
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I've used Fedora also - It seems OK but is a little behind the curve since RH seems to release this as a more stable option. And also they tend to lean towards gnome. All the linux heads I know seem to lean that way also, but I have always had better "results" with a KDE based system. The one I liked back then was Mandrake until they went to a "get if for nothing - get bottom line" attitude. Then about the same time Mac OS X was born - based on Free BSD. I remember going in to our artists room - new machine. Mac OS X.
Sat down and played - wow - a terminal - I typed TOP.
LINUX!!! That was the day I converted to Mac OS X.
Still fiddle with Linux though...

Yeah, Gnome doesn't trip my trigger either. I do like KDE alot though. I try not to be too bleeding edge with my computer stuff so Fedora works for me. I did try Mandrake and never could get it like I wanted it. Don't know why.

I am looking at playing with CentOS for my servers just because they are based on RHEL and keep Fedora for the workstations. Always something to play with.

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post #5062 of 6117 Old 11-24-2009, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I wiped out my Kubuntu install last night and replaced with Sidux. Much faster than Kubuntu was. I definitely feel I made the right call here. I'm still fiddling with select minor things, but for the most part everything seems correct.

- Trip

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post #5063 of 6117 Old 11-26-2009, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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So, I'm home now and I've been playing with the analyzer. First of all, scroll down to where it says "Home" on this page I'm linking below and you can see what the local signals look like to my antenna. (WTLU-LD is not yet on the air, but plans to be by the end of the year if all goes well.)

http://www.rabbitears.info/specan

I didn't realize just how good of an antenna the VHF bowtie is. I just hooked it up to the spectrum analyzer and it managed to show decodable signal for 7/10/13/21/27, plus got really close on 38 and the left side of 24, and in the right position even shows some signal for 15 and for WVIR and the mystery 11 signal.

- Trip

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post #5064 of 6117 Old 11-27-2009, 05:54 AM
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Wouldn't your mystery channel 11 be WTVD?

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post #5065 of 6117 Old 11-27-2009, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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It's either WTVD or WVPT. Or a mix. Before the transition, I used to see signal from WVPT-DT and from WTVD analog at the same time.

- Trip

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post #5066 of 6117 Old 11-27-2009, 07:21 AM
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Ocassionally when I do a channel scan I find not only 07-1 and 07-2 on frequency 18, but also 18-3 & 18.8 on Frequency 18.

These phantom channels sometimes occur for another frequency as well.

What are they?
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post #5067 of 6117 Old 11-27-2009, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I see nothing in the stream that should be causing extra stuff like that to show up.

If it showed up as 18-3 and 18-4 without the 7-1 and 7-2, I'd say your tuner was failing to read the PSIP, but in addition to those, no idea.

- Trip

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post #5068 of 6117 Old 11-27-2009, 07:59 AM
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I see nothing in the stream that should be causing extra stuff like that to show up.

If it showed up as 18-3 and 18-4 without the 7-1 and 7-2, I'd say your tuner was failing to read the PSIP, but in addition to those, no idea.

- Trip

It is intermittant. I'll be antenna tweaking today and if it shows up I'll note the time and what if anything is on the channel.
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post #5069 of 6117 Old 11-28-2009, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I went out with my analyzer and my VHF bowtie and drove around the property to see what reception would be like.

The highest point on the property is in the field in front of my house, and when I was up there, I was able to determine that I was at about the same height as my roof antenna and with a similar line of sight.

Even with the VHF bowtie itself, no amplification, no UHF antenna, I managed to match the reception of the roof antenna on the house for the most part. The antenna is bad at lower UHF frequencies and not good with low-VHF, but here's what I saw:

WBRA-3 was just barely below decoding. If my elements were long enough, I'd have caught it.
Channel 11 was about 10 dB too low to decode, but was clearly present. It's either WVPT or WTVD, I don't know which.
WSET-13 was higher than the roof antenna, but I have no high-VHF on the roof.
WFXR-17 was somewhat lower, but decodable.
WDBJ-18 was somewhat lower, but decodable.
WWCW-20 was the same as the roof antenna.
WRIC-22 was 10 dB too low to decode.
WDRL-24 was higher than the roof antenna, decoding at 20 dB whereas the roof antenna won't decode it on the analyzer.
WSLS-30 was the same as the roof antenna.
WVIR-32 was just barely below decoding.
WPXR-36 was the same as the roof antenna.

I forgot my clipboard or I'd have written down some numbers.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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post #5070 of 6117 Old 11-28-2009, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Generated a coverage map for WDBJ:

http://coverage.rabbitears.info/wdbj-dt.html

Thanks to Alan for the elevation plot I needed.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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