Roanoke, VA / Bluefield, WV - HDTV - Page 193 - AVS Forum
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post #5761 of 6141 Old 12-13-2011, 05:34 PM
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Doesn't it now.
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post #5762 of 6141 Old 12-14-2011, 04:24 AM
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Allen, how much additional coverage have you picked up? That constellation looks stunning!

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post #5763 of 6141 Old 12-14-2011, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

Allen, how much additional coverage have you picked up? That constellation looks stunning!

It was a bunch of lines...

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post #5764 of 6141 Old 12-14-2011, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

Allen, how much additional coverage have you picked up? That constellation looks stunning!

That's one of those things that is hard to put a number on. I don't have any kind of exact figure but I can tell you calls from people saying "We can get everyone but you" have tapered off and we have heard from some people saying that they had difficulty receiving us in the past but now they get us just fine.

Obviously this will not fix everything - there are still some people that WILL NOT be able to receive us due to terrain and other factors.
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post #5765 of 6141 Old 12-14-2011, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV View Post

It was a bunch of lines...

Yes, but a bunch of very SPECIAL lines..
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post #5766 of 6141 Old 12-15-2011, 06:08 AM
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Having an engineering background, but no knowledge of 8VSB, I looked at the graphs and could conclude anything either. Would anyone of you experts (there are several who monitor this thread) like to briefly explain what to look for?

A link to "8VSB for Dummies" would be fine too.
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post #5767 of 6141 Old 12-15-2011, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Having an engineering background, but no knowledge of 8VSB, I looked at the graphs and could conclude anything either. Would anyone of you experts (there are several who monitor this thread) like to briefly explain what to look for?

A link to "8VSB for Dummies" would be fine too.

With the Eye Pattern, you want VERY defined "eyes". The more defined, the easier it is to decode. Muddy eyes is no decoding at all.

The Constellation Pattern you want as straight and narrow lines as possible. Fat straight lines work, but the skinner the lines, the easier it is on the fringe to decode. Wavy or disorganized lines equals to hard or no decoding. When no signal is received, all the dots usually sit in a ball in the center of the display.

www.atsc.org has everything you every wanted to know about ATSC since they write the protocol.

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post #5768 of 6141 Old 12-15-2011, 11:27 AM
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Does color signify anything?

It appears that the new exciters were installed before Nov 14th...
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post #5769 of 6141 Old 12-15-2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Does color signify anything?

It appears that the new exciters were installed before Nov 14th...

I am not sure the colors represent anything other than different samples from oldest to newest. The idea of the constellation is for the lines (note 8 of them - uhh 8VSB) to line up in a perfect straight line. That of course is only possible in a lab. The whole idea here is the plots should be in the skinniest and straightest lines. The more they aren't the more receivers have to "guess" at the predicted value. The "curvey" of the lines (in the old WDBJ plots) relates to "jitter". That is another issue. We have improved greatly. WSLS still seems to be the *king*.. We have the same exciters now, but we have 2 amplifiers and one of the IOT's (tubes) has been replaced to weakness about 3-4 years ago and the other is the ORIGINAL IOT running since the transmitter was installed in 2002!! That is almost 10 years!
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post #5770 of 6141 Old 12-16-2011, 06:00 AM
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Just in case anyone else is curious...

The inductive output tube or IOT is a variety of vacuum tube which evolved in the 1980s to meet increasing efficiency requirements for high-power RF amplifiers. The primary commercial use of IOTs is in UHF television transmitters, where they have mostly replaced klystrons because of their higher efficiencies (35% to 40%) and smaller size. IOTs are also used in particle accelerators.

(I like the part about efficiency)
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post #5771 of 6141 Old 12-16-2011, 06:18 AM
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It looks like 21/27 have got their new microwave link installed and the 10:00PM news is now in HD! Looking good!

For the size of our market I an impressed with the HD capabilities of our local stations. Based on casual viewing (96 inches from a 46 inch screen) here is my assessment of what HD capabilities are missing.

WDBJ
Field/news gathering 16x9 SD

WSLS
Field/news gathering 16x9 SD
Syndication 4x3 SD

WSET
Field/news gathering 16x9 SD (some reports are HD)

WBRA
(News gathering N/A)

WWCW/WFXR
(Studio/news gathering N/A)

WPXR
(Studio/news gathering N/A)


Feel free to correct/comment
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post #5772 of 6141 Old 12-16-2011, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post

Just in case anyone else is curious...

The inductive output tube or IOT is a variety of vacuum tube which evolved in the 1980s to meet increasing efficiency requirements for high-power RF amplifiers. The primary commercial use of IOTs is in UHF television transmitters, where they have mostly replaced klystrons because of their higher efficiencies (35% to 40%) and smaller size. IOTs are also used in particle accelerators.

(I like the part about efficiency)

Uhh - sorry.. I have a bad habit of this just rambling on with things like "IOT's", etc.. I do it at work at the weekly management meetings. I just seem to assume people know what I am talking about.. Most of them do NOT...

I will try to do better...
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post #5773 of 6141 Old 12-16-2011, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdbjalan View Post

We have improved greatly. WSLS still seems to be the *king*.. We have the same exciters now, but we have 2 amplifiers and one of the IOT's (tubes) has been replaced to weakness about 3-4 years ago and the other is the ORIGINAL IOT running since the transmitter was installed in 2002!! That is almost 10 years!

Talk to me like I'm a 4-year old.

With the state of the art exciter at WDBJ, how can things like the IOT and other power amplifier components effect the signal quality? I would guess that a degraded backend would certainly hurt the raw power but in what manner might the quality suffer? S/N maybe?
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post #5774 of 6141 Old 12-19-2011, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

Talk to me like I'm a 4-year old.

With the state of the art exciter at WDBJ, how can things like the IOT and other power amplifier components effect the signal quality? I would guess that a degraded backend would certainly hurt the raw power but in what manner might the quality suffer? S/N maybe?

Wow. I thought I replied to this but I guess something didn't post. I know I did...

Anyway, tubes and amplifiers ideally would be linear but they aren't. As tubes age, they get more non linear. This topic is WAY too much to go into here.
You will just have to *trust* me on this..
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post #5775 of 6141 Old 12-23-2011, 09:13 PM
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New to forum-quick question on WSET13. I live in the 24019 area code in Roanoke County. For the last several months, I have received a signal with a 50-65% signal for channel 13. However, I am no longer getting a signal. I am receiving the same signal quality on the other local stations (WDBJ, WSLS, WXFR, etc.) I have an Antennacraft HDX1000 HDTV UHF/VHF Antenna and a radio shack pre-amp. Any ideas on why I am no longer able to at least receive a signal. Thanks.
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post #5776 of 6141 Old 12-24-2011, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Hm... do you happen to know if you were watching the main 13 signal or the channel 5 translator? It could be that the translator is off the air for some reason.

Do you receive WBRA-3 (15-1)? How is WWCW-20 (21-1)?

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post #5777 of 6141 Old 12-25-2011, 10:02 AM
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Thanks Tripp, I do receive 15.1-15.3 but have never been able to get 21.1.
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post #5778 of 6141 Old 12-25-2011, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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When I lived in Roanoke briefly, I lived in the 24019 area and I managed to pull in 13-1 when it was on UHF. I don't know if I would still be able to do that today. But that means it is at least feasible.

What type of TV set or receiver are you using? I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to tell whether you're watching WSET-13 or W05AA-5, as both would appear as 13-1.

Additionally, the antenna you are using really isn't all that amazing. I would be very surprised to see it receive WBRA-3, W05AA-5, or WSET-13 on a regular basis. Plus, the antenna is amplified, so by using the Radio Shack amp you are double amplifying; try pulling out the Radio Shack amp and see what impact that has. You'll have to remove it from the line entirely, not just unplug the power.

Merry Christmas, all!

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post #5779 of 6141 Old 12-25-2011, 08:11 PM
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Tripp, I have a Panasonic Viera TV with a 20 ft cable run directly from the roof. Following your recommendation, I pulled the preamp. I am receiving strong signals on local stations (85-100%) including the PBS stations. Still nothing from WSET. The last time I received WSET (earlier this week), the signal was unusually high at 64-67%. Typically it was 50-55%. Since then, 0. Thanks for your help.
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post #5780 of 6141 Old 12-26-2011, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Additionally, the antenna you are using really isn't all that amazing.

Told you!

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post #5781 of 6141 Old 12-27-2011, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV View Post

Told you!

I think they might need some of that "Trip's Antenna Wax". Guaranteed for at least 2.3dB more.
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post #5782 of 6141 Old 12-27-2011, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toribw1 View Post

Tripp, I have a Panasonic Viera TV with a 20 ft cable run directly from the roof. Following your recommendation, I pulled the preamp. I am receiving strong signals on local stations (85-100%) including the PBS stations. Still nothing from WSET. The last time I received WSET (earlier this week), the signal was unusually high at 64-67%. Typically it was 50-55%. Since then, 0. Thanks for your help.

Hmm... The "Viera" name seems to cover a lot of TVs. Try manually entering several of these combinations and see if you get any signal to show up:

5-1
5-3
13-3

Let me know if any of those work for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdbjalan View Post

I think they might need some of that "Trip's Antenna Wax". Guaranteed for at least 2.3dB more.



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post #5783 of 6141 Old 12-31-2011, 03:59 PM
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None of the channels (5-1,5-3, 13-3) have a signal. Thanks for your help.
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post #5784 of 6141 Old 12-31-2011, 05:22 PM
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I'm in the 24018 zip code near Lewis Gale. I'm seeing the same behavior on WSET. I first noticed it when I tried to turn on the NBA games Christmas day. They're still not coming in this evening. I've been receiving WSET via channel 5 for a long time now without issue. I get all the other local channels just fine, including 21.

My guess is WSET is having some sort of issue. Maybe they'll get it worked out after the holidays.
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post #5785 of 6141 Old 12-31-2011, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMike View Post

I'm in the 24018 zip code near Lewis Gale. I'm seeing the same behavior on WSET. I first noticed it when I tried to turn on the NBA games Christmas day. They're still not coming in this evening. I've been receiving WSET via channel 5 for a long time now without issue. I get all the other local channels just fine, including 21.

My guess is WSET is having some sort of issue. Maybe they'll get it worked out after the holidays.

So are you saying that you were receiving WSET via W05AA, but now W05AA seems to be off the air?

That could explain the issues experienced by toribw1, certainly. If you can confirm this, I will send a note off to my friend at WSET.

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post #5786 of 6141 Old 12-31-2011, 11:38 PM
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Thanks for the update. Pardon my ignorance, but I have never received WSET on 5. What is the reason that the station shows up on 5 and/or 13?
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post #5787 of 6141 Old 01-01-2012, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

So are you saying that you were receiving WSET via W05AA, but now W05AA seems to be off the air?

That could explain the issues experienced by toribw1, certainly. If you can confirm this, I will send a note off to my friend at WSET.

- Trip

Hi Trip, that is indeed what I'm saying. W05AA appears to be down.

Interesting thing though, I just did a scan and I can get WSET on 13 again this morning. The signal quality is a little lower than the other channels, about 68%, but it seems to be working. I'm pretty sure it wasn't working last night, but it could have been an issue on my end. I just did a firmware upgrade on my HDHomerun and rebooted it. Channel 5 is still no where to be seen however.



Mike
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post #5788 of 6141 Old 01-01-2012, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toribw1 View Post

Thanks for the update. Pardon my ignorance, but I have never received WSET on 5. What is the reason that the station shows up on 5 and/or 13?

If you were, indeed, receiving W05AA, it would have still appeared as 13-1, much as WDBJ-18 appears as 7-1 or WSLS-30 appears as 10-1 or WBRA-3 appears as 15-1. PSIP, required by the FCC, permits a station to continue to retain its pre-transition identity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMike View Post

Hi Trip, that is indeed what I'm saying. W05AA appears to be down.

I have sent an e-mail off to my friend at WSET.

Quote:


I just did a firmware upgrade on my HDHomerun and rebooted it.

Ooh, another person in the market with an HDHR. Query, do you happen to see signal on channel 44? If so, is it still broadcasting the digital equivalent of dead air?

- Trip

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post #5789 of 6141 Old 01-01-2012, 02:07 PM
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After never having problems with 13 I couldn`t pull it in this morning. So I head over hear and see others having problems too, but before I could shime in low and behold it shows up just a mimute ago. Go figure.

Joel
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post #5790 of 6141 Old 01-01-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

If you were, indeed, receiving W05AA, it would have still appeared as 13-1, much as WDBJ-18 appears as 7-1 or WSLS-30 appears as 10-1 or WBRA-3 appears as 15-1. PSIP, required by the FCC, permits a station to continue to retain its pre-transition identity.

I was receiving W05AA, at least that's what the HDHomerun reported. It listed the physical channel as 5-1 and the logical as 13-1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I have sent an e-mail off to my friend at WSET.


Ooh, another person in the market with an HDHR. Query, do you happen to see signal on channel 44? If so, is it still broadcasting the digital equivalent of dead air?

- Trip

Channel 44 is the Home Shopping Network. It's a live feed carrying HSN programming.
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