Central Florida Winter 2004 thread - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 498 Old 03-26-2004, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mhdiab
This is BS from start to finish. I just called WKMG and asked them why the game is not in HD. They told me it is on 6.2 not on 6.1 which is what BHN is broadcasting. How come the CBS station spent tons of money on this and BHN spent tons of money on this and they can't agree on providing the viewers with the product. I am pissed about this, but without additional information I have to belive that this is completely WKMG's fault. BHN carries the HD channel every day from WKMG and just beacuse they feel like broadcasting the games on another channel BHN shouldn't have to scramble. Either way I can't belive that the largest promotional opportunity for HDTV is just screwed up like this especially since BHN has on their webpage - "Watch college basketball in HD ".......
WKMG has been swapping the virtual channel they send the HD on for several seasons now. This is not new and happens every year around this time. I just looked at some recordings I have from previous years and they did the same last year. Maybe by this time next year there will be a new CBS affiliate in town and they will do better, or perhaps the new one will be worse!

WKMG also has (CC) from one game tied to the other games virtual channel during certain periods. Plus they continue to water down the HD throughput by wasting the digital channel's capacity to send the same game that they have on the analog in SD on the digital.

Deduction and possible reason for the whole mess:
I suspect the reason for sending a copy of the analog channel in SD digital on the main channel (and moving the other game to the sub channel even if it is HD) is so WKMG can feed a copy of the analog signal (via the digital) to distant cable network headends who use the digital signal to feed WKMG SD to their analog tier subscribers. I know it sounds like a ridiculous excuse but this could be the reason for the channel shuffle.

As for the BHN WKMG-HD problem that is a failure to communicate between BHN and WKMG. Neither will ever admit it though! Both are to blame for their lack of communication and coordination. Cable is also to blame for cherry picking the broadcaster's digital signal and then not being able to quickly make the switch to the correct feed if a sub or WKMG reports the problem to them.

Glad I have OTA and satellite(s)!

Both sides to this have dropped the ball so to speak!
Gee that phrase seems familiar. I think I said the same last year or the year before perhaps. :-)

For my own reasons (video bitrate reduction) I like to blame multicasting for all the problems. If a station is going to multicast and create all sorts of problems that come with it then they ought to be willing to deal with the complications. If they aren't willing then they shouldn't be multicasting!


Quote:
Originally posted by mhdiab

Now I asked them if they would actually multi-cast in the sense of showing all games available - not just the SD and HD feed - several places they are doing this - would be awesome to be able to switch between games all the time

Now maybe you see why this was not done in Orlando at the drop of the hat. You are asking for more than they are prepared, equipped, or willing to handle.
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post #482 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 12:02 AM
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I am not worried about the new Pace box but I would llke to know where StarzHD, MaxHD, TMCHD (both East and West versions) and ESPN HD are? The movie channels can't be that much more to add to the lineup.

Please add them soon or I may go Voom!
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post #483 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 05:39 AM
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I am not worried about the new Pace box but I would llke to know where StarzHD, MaxHD, TMCHD (both East and West versions) and ESPN HD are? The movie channels can't be that much more to add to the lineup.

Please add them soon or I may go Voom!
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post #484 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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D* is launching a new satellite next month and will be adding a bunch more of HD channels afterwards.
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post #485 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 07:22 AM
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Satpro - thanks for your clarifications and answers. Last night I got so pissed that I searched for emails for CBS corporate and for Harris Corporation (Sponsor of the HD broadcast). I ended up writing a professional letter informing Harris Corporation about how their sponsorship money was spent in a market such as Orlando and while I think it will be a waste of time you can always hope.

I totally agree that what we have here is a failure to communicate. However, I received emails from WKMG stating they didn't know why etc etc - they could have told me what they are doing and then why instead of giving me a go around. Is the reason maybe that BHN isn't carrying a WKMG subchannel like they are for the local ABC station and they want to push that issue? or they don't offer one?

I probably won't live in Orlando next year, but that is not interesting (neither is the fact that for the rest of the game there should only be one each time) I will keep pushing this one and see what comes out. I expect to get answers from BHN and from WKMG and while I won't be satisfied any discomfort I can create for them will hopefully help for next year. I encourage all of you that have BHN to mail both of them and ask how and why they dropped the ball (no pun intended). Make your voice heard - I have cancelled the final four party I was going to have. I refuse to push HD using WKMG after this and guess what BHN you probably lost out on some money because I had several people coming over to help them in the decision making of getting an HDTV and digital cable - nice job now I will badmouth WKMG instead
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post #486 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rich21
D* is launching a new satellite next month and will be adding a bunch more of HD channels afterwards.
Wow, thanks Rich. That is great news. The game on D* channel 84 looked fantastic last night. One of the best b-ball games in HD I have seen. Can't wait until that happens.
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post #487 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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The channel swapping by WKMG shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone (i.e BHN). They did the same thing last year.
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post #488 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 08:51 AM
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If BHN will not carry a broadcasters multicast channels and the broadcasters keep rearranging the number and content on those channels then the obvious workaround to keep all your options open with BHN and HD is to add an ATSC tuner to receive the off air multicast channels.

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post #489 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 09:39 AM
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mhdiab - I watched some of the game on 6.2 OTA last night. It looked incredible while the camera was still but was awful when the camera panned from one end of the court to the other. There just wasn't enough bandwidth to handle all the motion, probably due to the multicasting the other game on 6.1 (;)).

I hope that makes you feel better.
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post #490 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by avNeophyte
mhdiab - I watched some of the game on 6.2 OTA last night. It looked incredible while the camera was still but was awful when the camera panned from one end of the court to the other. There just wasn't enough bandwidth to handle all the motion, probably due to the multicasting the other game on 6.1 (;)).

I hope that makes you feel better.
I feel immensely better to hear you now agree with what I have been saying. :D

The overhead to handle the action wasn't there and that was definitely due to the multicasting on WKMG-DT.
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post #491 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by satpro
I feel immensely better to hear you now agree with what I have been saying. :D
Not so fast SatPro. I never said I wanted them to waste bandwidth retransmitting the analog signal in SD digital. I wanted them to transmit additional games on the subchannels when more than two games were available or if there were two concurrent games and they were showing the HD game on analog. I still stand by that. :)

Quote:
Originally posted by satpro
The overhead to handle the action wasn't there and that was definitely due to the multicasting on WKMG-DT. [/b]
I agree with that.

Let's hope they drop the extra subchannel for the 4 remaining HD games.
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post #492 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mhdiab
Satpro - thanks for your clarifications and answers. Last night I got so pissed that ...

I totally agree that what we have here is a failure to communicate. However, I received emails from WKMG stating they didn't know why etc etc - they could have told me what they are doing and then why instead of giving me a go around. Is the reason maybe that BHN isn't carrying a WKMG subchannel like they are for the local ABC station and they want to push that issue? or they don't offer one?

I expect to get answers from BHN and from WKMG and while I won't be satisfied any discomfort I can create for them will hopefully help for next year. I encourage all of you that have BHN to mail both of them and ask how and why they dropped the ball (no pun intended). Make your voice heard - I have cancelled the final four party I was going to have.


Sounds like another satisfied digital TV viewer, way to go guys! Niether side can really tell you what they are doing because the people/companies involved operate in the dark of themselves and each other. The people you emailed in programming aren't really qualified to tell you the technical details of where a certain game will end up. Only engineering can tell you that they are planning on swapping or shuffling the channels around during game time and the real reason why. It is unlikely they will ever tell us though.

The WKMG sub-channel which they have proclaimed a webchannel (a webchannel which in fact offers no ability to point, click, or scroll for that matter is no 'web' channel) seems pretty important to WKMG so this could be a way of forcing it on BHN. Good point to bring up.
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post #493 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by avNeophyte
Not so fast SatPro. I never said I wanted them to waste bandwidth retransmitting the analog signal in SD digital.
Great, even better, this is how I feel too.

I am all for multicasting if/in times it make sense and if it is done correctly by maintaining constant virtual channel maps by sending null packets on the sub channels when they are inactive or made so. Shuffling is the quick and dirty way to multicast and not the recommended way.

If duplicate programming is stealing precious bits then they are not using the resources they have wisely. WRBW-DT OTA is a prime example of this.
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post #494 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
swapping or shuffling the channels around during game time and the real reason why. It is unlikely they will ever tell us though.
Whoever was on as a tech last night stated very clearly - "management decision" this wasn't the case of an engineer thinking this was the best way they knew about it and as stated did it last year - why if there is not a very specific agenda behind.......... pushing their subchannel on BHN seems like the most likely reason.

So tons of local CBS stations did a temporary agreement for the superbowl across the country so that the viewers could see the game in HD - hey Orlando's affiliate does the opposite to screw people as much as possible.....

My emails last night went to Harris Corporation as a sponsor and CBS corporate and local - do the same - tell them what you think. I also emailed BHN (that we know are reading here) and told them that it was poor that they hadn't discussed this earlier. There is a reason Hd isn't catching on as quickly as it could. Some technical issues is always expected with new technologies, but not providers going out of their way to screw you....
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post #495 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by satpro
Great, even better, this is how I feel too.

I am all for multicasting if/in times it make sense and if it is done correctly by maintaining constant virtual channel maps by sending null packets on the sub channels when they are inactive or made so. Shuffling is the quick and dirty way to multicast and not the recommended way.

If duplicate programming is stealing precious bits then they are not using the resources they have wisely. WRBW-DT OTA is a prime example of this.
I'm in complete agreement with that. To me, it made sense to multicast during the first round of the tournament. Unfortunately it wasn't done properly.
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post #496 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 01:06 PM
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Spring is nearly a week old. Who is going to step up to the plate?
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post #497 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 01:12 PM
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Go for it!

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post #498 of 498 Old 03-27-2004, 01:27 PM
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Here is a link to the new Central Florida Spring 2004 Thread .
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