Grand Rapids, MI - HDTV - Page 267 - AVS Forum
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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Grand Rapids, MI - HDTV
Rich215's Avatar Rich215 12:34 PM 10-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB33 View Post

I just install a Royal 15D antenna on the Westside. The bottom antenna with the V points toward Gun Lake. The middle antenna, with two sets of terminals and narrower that the the top one, is pointed at WZZM. The top antenna, with one set of terminals, is pointed toward WGVU. Make sure the interconnecting cables are inverted at the next terminal. That is the right wire from the top antenna goes to the left terminal on the next one down.
How old is your antenna? The digital antennas before 2009 had a channel 39 element for WZZM. They moved back to channel 13 after analog TV went away.
You might try removing the WGVU antenna completely because you are so close. Connect the WZZM antenna directly to the lower antenna.


Hi Dan....I am wondering what the Royal 15D is like compared to my older Royal 17? Seems your placement of the wands are opposite of mine. My instructions on the Royal 17 say to mount the Channel 13 wand at the top...then 25 inches down mount the 3,8, 17,41 wand, and then 60 inches from top mount the 35 wand.


I am in north GR by Blythefield country club, just north of beltline and west river. I have a very hard time getting 3 and 8. I have my antenna on a 16ft pole roof mount. I do not have a long run of coax to the one TV that is hooked up to it....maybe less than 30 feet or so.

I am thinking about adding a amplifier to it and wonder which one to get.

DanB33's Avatar DanB33 04:37 PM 10-27-2013
The 15D was a typo it was a 17D. My instructions said to put the channel 11 (WGVU35) antenna at he top, channel 13 (WZZM)30 inches from the top and 3,8,17 & 41 (actually 7, 8,19, 20) 60 inches from the top. Early versions had a 35, 13 and combo unit. I also believe the first 17 digital version had a 39 (13), 11 (35), and a combo element for the others. When analog went off, channel 13 moved back to channel 13 for digital. The others stayed on their originally assigned Digital channels. If you are using a UHF element for channel 13 that will not work.
Dan Bishop
jvandyke's Avatar jvandyke 05:33 PM 10-27-2013
How do you tell a VHF antenna from a UHF? Research says simply the size. In my case both upper elements point in almost exactly the same direction, one UHF, one VHF (I think, the top two sections of the Royal 17D) so I should be covered either way. I'd guess. My problem isn't really getting the signal, it's getting it through the house's coax to three TVs.
Rich, since you have a short run and only one TV (assuming it's a decent TV with a decent tuner) if it doesn't get channels it's your antenna/where it's pointed or it's style, or your in a dead zone. I don't think an amplifier will help, neither a preamp or a distribution amp, they only help a signal that's there get "pushed" further through the coax for long runs and stuff.
Rich215's Avatar Rich215 08:03 PM 10-27-2013
Yes, I tried a couple signal boosters and they did nothing. I guess my problem is the actual antenna setup.

My Royal 17 is from about 2002 prior to the signals going full digital only. Should I be able to setup this antenna and get all the channels still, just set the elements differently than original setup suggests?



jvandyke's Avatar jvandyke 09:02 PM 10-27-2013
got any neighbors doing better? I'm not terribly convinced it's your antenna but maybe
Rich215's Avatar Rich215 08:47 AM 10-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyke View Post

got any neighbors doing better? I'm not terribly convinced it's your antenna but maybe

My neighbor gets ok reception of 3 and 8 with a lesser antenna setup that is not as high up in the air as mine. So maybe it is my tuner in the tv. Its a low end tv from about 6 years ago..Olivia 38 inch LCD. Maybe it has a tuner with chips that are not good enough?

I would like to test one of those external tuner boxes if I could find a cheap one that just acts as an external tuner. I saw that iView 3500STB unit for about $40.
Rich215's Avatar Rich215 02:03 PM 10-28-2013
OK GOOD NEWS!

I finally got it all sorted out. The original Royal 17 setup from back in 2002 or 2003 when I got the antenna.....is no longer valid for directing the 3 wands as shown on directions.

After trying to move the 3 wands around to positions something close to what DanB33 said for his Royal 17D.......it did not work for me.

Then after reading jvandyke's comment How do you tell a VHF antenna from a UHF? Research says simply the size. In my case both upper elements point in almost exactly the same direction, one UHF, one VHF (I think, the top two sections of the Royal 17D)......I then did the same moving the upper wand almost the same direction as the middle wand. BA DA BOOM....BA DA BING !!!! I now get all the channels I should..... finally.

3.1
3.2

8.1
8.2

13.1
13.2

15.1
15.2

17.1
17.2
17.3

35.1
35.2
35.3
35.4

41.1
41.2
41.3

54.1
54.2
54.3

64.1
64.2
64.3

biggrin.gif
DanB33's Avatar DanB33 04:54 PM 10-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich215 View Post

Yes, I tried a couple signal boosters and they did nothing. I guess my problem is the actual antenna setup.

My Royal 17 is from about 2002 prior to the signals going full digital only. Should I be able to setup this antenna and get all the channels still, just set the elements differently than original setup suggests?




Yes, this picture is incorrect for today's Royal 17D. The bottom element is for channels 35 and 54 is UHF, but 35 is actually on channel 11 and 54 is actually on channel 24. The top element is for channel 13, which is still used today. The middle element has the old channels for the other stations. The V section is part of the UHF on that element. Channels 2-13 are VHF. Channels 14 and up are UHF.

Both antennaweb.org and tvfool.com have direction locators available. TVfool seems to have more info. Use the the TV Signal Locator button on the left. In the chart that is generated, REAL is the actual channed the signal is on and Virtual is the 8.1 etc., number.

To tell the difference between an 11 and a13 element on the 17D check the width of the elements. Channel 13's will be slightly smaller. On the antenna I got, the 11 element had only one set of terminals with a 300 ohm flat lead installed to it. The 13 element had two sets of terminals, one with a flat lead and the other empty.. The bottom element had two sets of terminals, one said "Connect antenna cable here".

Unless you are close to a direct line between 13 and 11 the top elements should not be pointed the same direction. You would be south of Allendale.

If you need any more info, just ask.

Dan Bishop
Rich215's Avatar Rich215 10:02 PM 10-28-2013
Dan,

Here is my tvfool data.



Channels 8.1 and 8.2 were lost after I rescanned and tried to make an adjustment with the top wand. I am not sure where to aim the top one that was originally for channel 13. It does not seem to matter much where the top wand is to pull in the "13 channels" though as those 2 channels are easy to get no matter where that top wand is pointing.

So now with the top and middle wands aiming the same direction towards Gun Lake.....i locked on all the other channels very solidly. It is just the 8.1 and 8.2 that are hard to keep locked in.

Rich
baasj's Avatar baasj 07:22 AM 10-29-2013
Does anyone have a picture of the Royal 17D?
DanB33's Avatar DanB33 05:34 PM 10-29-2013
Rich,

From the TV Fool Data the 13 element, top element, should be facing NW. It is the line on the that has 13 closest to the center of the circle. The center one for gun lake should be pointer almost due south, about 5 or so degrees east of south. The bottom element, the narrowest one, may not work, but you could try pointing it toward Allendale, a few degrees west of SW.
If your TV has a feature to check signal strength, you can try pointing the elements while someone watches that feature. Move it slow and have them on a phone or walkie talkie. Since you lost 8.1 and 8.2, try adjusting the middle element with the V on channel 7, the real channel of WOOD TV.

Dan
Dominic26's Avatar Dominic26 08:47 PM 10-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich215 View Post

Dan,

Here is my tvfool data.



Channels 8.1 and 8.2 were lost after I rescanned and tried to make an adjustment with the top wand. I am not sure where to aim the top one that was originally for channel 13. It does not seem to matter much where the top wand is to pull in the "13 channels" though as those 2 channels are easy to get no matter where that top wand is pointing.

So now with the top and middle wands aiming the same direction towards Gun Lake.....i locked on all the other channels very solidly. It is just the 8.1 and 8.2 that are hard to keep locked in.

Rich

Rich,

I am 1 block East of the Beltline at Leonard. Northland Rd drops as you get to the river. Could it be a height issue where the Beltline starts uphill to 5 Mile Rd.? Looking at Mapquest, from the perspective of Blythefield CC, that hill looks to be in your way.

I believe it is a height issue. Looking at your TVFool results and mine all my locals have a LOS (Line of Sight) to the transmitters. Yours are all 1 edge and 2 edge for channels 3 (CBS, 8 (NBC), 17 (FOX) and 41(ABC). You may need to raise the antenna a couple of feet.

Dominic
Rduce's Avatar Rduce 08:54 AM 11-09-2013
Did anyone notice last week or perhaps the week before that channel 8 and 41 only appeared as their virtual channel numbers? It only last a day or so and things were back to normal, but my television and DVR lost them and a rescan brought them in displaying their virtual numbers. The next day I had to rescan again to find them back showing normally.
Dominic26's Avatar Dominic26 06:43 AM 11-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rduce View Post

Did anyone notice last week or perhaps the week before that channel 8 and 41 only appeared as their virtual channel numbers? It only last a day or so and things were back to normal, but my television and DVR lost them and a rescan brought them in displaying their virtual numbers. The next day I had to rescan again to find them back showing normally.

No. But I have a 24.4 and a 45.5 that have mysteriously shown up on 1 of my TVs. No picture or sound, just there.
kevin79's Avatar kevin79 04:33 PM 12-11-2013
Hopefully someone will be able to answer this. I have internet through Comcast and up until today, I got a handful of channels (WOOD, WXMI, WWMT, WZZM, WGVU, CW7) through Comcast on my HDTV. I don't pay for cable TV so I can't really call them for support. Does anyone know if Comcast changed something so that I won't get those channels? Should I have been able to get them or was it a fluke that Comcast fixed?
alesch1's Avatar alesch1 06:56 AM 12-12-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin79 View Post

Hopefully someone will be able to answer this. I have internet through Comcast and up until today, I got a handful of channels (WOOD, WXMI, WWMT, WZZM, WGVU, CW7) through Comcast on my HDTV. I don't pay for cable TV so I can't really call them for support. Does anyone know if Comcast changed something so that I won't get those channels? Should I have been able to get them or was it a fluke that Comcast fixed?

All the clear channels on Comcast here disappeared a month or two ago. It seems that they are encrypting everything on most systems.
kevin79's Avatar kevin79 07:14 AM 12-12-2013
That is what I was afraid of. Time to look at an antenna.
NeWtoz's Avatar NeWtoz 12:12 PM 12-15-2013
I just noticed this also, unfortunately, my location isn't that great for an antenna due to a big building just south of me, but I'll monkey around with a homemade one for testing.

I've always got most of my entertainment online, but this puts a damper on sports.
kevin79's Avatar kevin79 06:27 AM 12-16-2013
First off, I apologize if the question has already been asked (I'm sure it has). I am looking at getting an antenna for OTA channels at my house. What is a good one to get and who is a good company to go with to get it installed?
Dominic26's Avatar Dominic26 06:48 AM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin79 View Post

First off, I apologize if the question has already been asked (I'm sure it has). I am looking at getting an antenna for OTA channels at my house. What is a good one to get and who is a good company to go with to get it installed?

If you're comfortable with a ladder it could be a do it yourself project.. I have a medium sized antenna with a rotator. Not sure where to purchase locally (got mine years ago locally in Rhode Island). But online you can try Solidsignal.com. They are a Michigan company located near Detroit. You can talk to a CSR and they have a feel for the Grand Rapids OTA market.
kevin79's Avatar kevin79 06:50 AM 12-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic26 View Post

If you're comfortable with a ladder it could be a do it yourself project.. I have a medium sized antenna with a rotator. Not sure where to purchase locally (got mine years ago locally in Rhode Island). But online you can try Solidsignal.com. They are a Michigan company located near Detroit. You can talk to a CSR and they have a feel for the Grand Rapids OTA market.

Thanks but I don't really want to install it myself. My roof has a steep pitch and I really don't like climbing on it if I don't have to.
kbrunsting's Avatar kbrunsting 07:08 PM 12-16-2013
I had my Royal 17 antenna adjusted a year or two ago by a company called Great Lakes Communications and they installed an antenna for a friend of mine... no complaints, I get all the local channels in really well.
Dominic26's Avatar Dominic26 08:21 AM 12-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin79 View Post

Thanks but I don't really want to install it myself. My roof has a steep pitch and I really don't like climbing on it if I don't have to.

+ 1. Got over my ladder fear 12 years ago. Then 2 years ago I had an 8 ft ladder (16ft folds in 4 4ft sections) fold at the 4ft point while getting a frisbee off the garage roof for my kids. I was able to jump back into the grass as it happened. I will always pay to have some one go up the ladder for me. Set my fear right back in.
Dominic26's Avatar Dominic26 08:23 AM 12-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrunsting View Post

I had my Royal 17 antenna adjusted a year or two ago by a company called Great Lakes Communications and they installed an antenna for a friend of mine... no complaints, I get all the local channels in really well.

Are they on West River Dr in Comstock Park? I am thinking of having an AM/FM antenna installed for my receivers.
kbrunsting's Avatar kbrunsting 09:03 PM 12-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic26 View Post

Are they on West River Dr in Comstock Park? I am thinking of having an AM/FM antenna installed for my receivers.

Yep.
hdtvjunkie34's Avatar hdtvjunkie34 05:15 PM 01-28-2014
Any suggestions or experiences for an in-attic antenna? I'm in NW Grand Rapids and can pull most locals by moving around a powered indoor antenna, but would like to stop messing with that every time I switch channels. Here's my tvfool data:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b94693d46183e
Dominic26's Avatar Dominic26 08:38 PM 01-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtvjunkie34 View Post

Any suggestions or experiences for an in-attic antenna? I'm in NW Grand Rapids and can pull most locals by moving around a powered indoor antenna, but would like to stop messing with that every time I switch channels. Here's my tvfool data:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b94693d46183e

Maybe a medium sized antenna. Have it pointed about 155 degrees. That will get most of what we get locally. You are close enough that WGVU (35.1) and WTLJ (54.1) will not even matter that it is pointed the other way. WZZM (13.1) is 180 degrees from the other stations and again maybe close enough to get a solid picture. Good luck. I am on the NE side and love my antenna. Great reception and no check to cut once a month.

Do you have an antenna yet?
bonscott87's Avatar bonscott87 06:14 AM 02-13-2014

Been a while since I've posted in this thread.  :)

 

Did some updating last night on my home theater PC and noticed that WOKZ-CD (50-1) is finally coming in pretty strong.  I live down in Kalamazoo by the airport so this is our local repeater of WXSP I believe.  Problem is that there is still no guide data for the channel in Windows Media Center 7.  WMC gets it's guide data from Zap2It and there is guide data for WOKZ on Zap2It but for some reason WMC isn't seeing it.  WMC has a feature to map the guide data of another channel to it so I figured I'd map 8.2 to it but forgot that is now Bounce so that won't work and any of the other area repeaters aren't in my guide (I can't receive them) to see if they have guide data.

 

Anyone else seeing this and if WoodTV is still watching the thread, is there perhaps a problem with the channel code at Zap2It that is causing it not to map properly in WMC?  Any ideas?

 

Thanks!


Kamakzie's Avatar Kamakzie 10:01 AM 02-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonscott87 View Post

Been a while since I've posted in this thread.  smile.gif

Did some updating last night on my home theater PC and noticed that WOKZ-CD (50-1) is finally coming in pretty strong.  I live down in Kalamazoo by the airport so this is our local repeater of WXSP I believe.  Problem is that there is still no guide data for the channel in Windows Media Center 7.  WMC gets it's guide data from Zap2It and there is guide data for WOKZ on Zap2It but for some reason WMC isn't seeing it.  WMC has a feature to map the guide data of another channel to it so I figured I'd map 8.2 to it but forgot that is now Bounce so that won't work and any of the other area repeaters aren't in my guide (I can't receive them) to see if they have guide data.

Anyone else seeing this and if WoodTV is still watching the thread, is there perhaps a problem with the channel code at Zap2It that is causing it not to map properly in WMC?  Any ideas?

Thanks!

Can you use channel 15.1?
TV8's Avatar TV8 11:23 AM 02-13-2014
Actually WOKZ gets its feed from WOLP CD 15-3 in Middleville, (licensed to Grand Rapids). WOLP receives its feed via microwave from the GR downtown studio. Our system has 2 high power stations, (WOLP and WXSP) that feed lower power municipal stations in Holland, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek and Muskegon. WXSP serves the North and WOLP serves the South. In addition WOLP connects to WOW cable to the East and Battle Creek serves the municipal cable system in Coldwater. All other cable and satellite feeds are fiber fed. We feed the same PSIP data to all stations, at each of the stations we strip the VCT (virtual channel tables) and insert a new table with the proper major and minor channels and call letters along with a FCC assigned TSID.
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