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post #181 of 8042 Old 03-10-2004, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
I HATE the fact that WWMT stretches 4:3 content. It looks like crap!

Yep, it's almost as if no one from WWMT has ever seen it. Shame!
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post #182 of 8042 Old 03-10-2004, 12:23 PM
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3-1 is stretched, but 3-2 is not. Any proramming that you don't want stretched, you could just switch to 3-2, right?
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post #183 of 8042 Old 03-10-2004, 12:33 PM
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True but why do they stretch the stuff on 3-1 to begin with? It looks like garbage.
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post #184 of 8042 Old 03-10-2004, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jhnlngn
I'm curious as to why WWMT is the only channel in the area that is using part of its digital bandwidth for an analog subchannel to deliver their analog signal to cable and sat providers.

Much cheaper then running a fiber link to the cable head ends or to the DirecTV and Dish uplink centers. Remember, most of that stuff is in Grand Rapids and the WWMT studios are actually in Kalamazoo. 50 miles of fiber ain't cheap!

No saying I like it, but I understand the economics of it.

Scott
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post #185 of 8042 Old 03-10-2004, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kamakzie
True but why do they stretch the stuff on 3-1 to begin with? It looks like garbage.

Mainly so they don't have to keep flipping the switch back and forth. Leave it in 16x9 all the time and it's easier.

Most of the other stations stretch as well. WOOD has their god aweful 14x9 stretch. WXSP is stretched too...and so on. I don't like it either but that is their choice. And my choice is to not watch unless it's in HD. If it's not HD then I'm watching it off DirecTV anyway (and probably 4 days later on my DirecTivo .

Scott
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post #186 of 8042 Old 03-10-2004, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Straw
3-1 is stretched, but 3-2 is not. Any proramming that you don't want stretched, you could just switch to 3-2, right?

Well, 3-1 is HD, 3-2 isn't. I want to watch CSI on 3-1. All the CBS commercials are not streched but every time you see Judy giving a news update on 3-1 it's streched. Hey, all it does it show how WWMT doesn't take care of the details. If Judy doesn't care if her face get's scrunched down, I don't care.
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post #187 of 8042 Old 03-10-2004, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonscott87
Much cheaper then running a fiber link to the cable head ends or to the DirecTV and Dish uplink centers. Remember, most of that stuff is in Grand Rapids and the WWMT studios are actually in Kalamazoo. 50 miles of fiber ain't cheap!

No saying I like it, but I understand the economics of it.

Thanks! So I'm assuming all of the others have a fiber link to cable? I'm not complaining, I was just curious as to why they are different. I'm still tickled to be getting any HD programming.
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post #188 of 8042 Old 03-11-2004, 04:12 AM
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Just recieved this for the General Manager at WOOD TV8.

Dear David,
Thank you for your e-mail. Our Corporate office is currently working out
the details for the HD distribution with the Comcast group. I don't have
a final date that it will be on the air, but I don't think it should be
too long. Thanks for the inquiry. Take care,
Diane Kniowski
General Manager
WOOD TV8
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post #189 of 8042 Old 03-11-2004, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jhnlngn
Thanks! So I'm assuming all of the others have a fiber link to cable? I'm not complaining, I was just curious as to why they are different. I'm still tickled to be getting any HD programming.

I have no hard facts but most of the other stations are actually located in GR and the Dish and DirecTV uplinks are in GR as well. Short runs of fiber (relatively) for them. Either that or their analog signal is good enough for cable and the sats to use that.

Scott
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post #190 of 8042 Old 03-11-2004, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wolffpack
Well, 3-1 is HD, 3-2 isn't. I want to watch CSI on 3-1. All the CBS commercials are not streched but every time you see Judy giving a news update on 3-1 it's streched. Hey, all it does it show how WWMT doesn't take care of the details. If Judy doesn't care if her face get's scrunched down, I don't care.

Well, it's more of a corporate policy. If you look around at other local threads for other parts of the country you will see a lot of the same thing - stetching and people complaining. However some stations believe that the customers want the stretch so they don't see black bars. Look at ESPN-HD as the prime #1 example of that.

So if (for example) CBS network doesn't want to stretch SD then that's why the nation commercials aren't. But the local stations want to so they do. I don't like it either, but it's their decision.

And WWMT isn't the only one locally that stretches SD on the HD channels. Most of them do it. That's no excuse but if you want to lay blame, lay it on all of them and not just WWMT. I've complained to WOODTV a few times about it but they say over and over that their viewers don't want to see black bars on the sides. I gave up on dealing with them (I don't watch a thing on NBC anyway).

Scott
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post #191 of 8042 Old 03-11-2004, 03:37 PM
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Thanks for the info Deeznutzs27, thats great news about TV8.
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post #192 of 8042 Old 03-12-2004, 05:08 AM
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Are the HD receivers that Comcast uses able to receive OTA signals?
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post #193 of 8042 Old 03-13-2004, 04:09 PM
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Quote:


Are the HD receivers that Comcast uses able to receive OTA signals?

No, that is why hopefully channels 8 and 3 can work something out soon!!!!
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post #194 of 8042 Old 03-13-2004, 06:35 PM
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Hey, not really HD related, but did anyone else notice WOOD, WXSP and WOTV having paid programming on between 7 and 8 tonight (Saturday night). What's the deal, the whole company take an hour off?
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post #195 of 8042 Old 03-13-2004, 07:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bonscott87
Much cheaper then running a fiber link to the cable head ends or to the DirecTV and Dish uplink centers. Remember, most of that stuff is in Grand Rapids and the WWMT studios are actually in Kalamazoo. 50 miles of fiber ain't cheap!

No saying I like it, but I understand the economics of it.

I doubt that they run fiber.. other than cost, it would be impossible to get 'right of way' to lay fiber for that whole distance. They would get a high speed leased line from Ameritech, or a microwave link, or the cable co. would just use the analog OTA broadcast. But, you're right, the high cost is still the major issue.

Remember, they have only been doing Digital/HD for a relatively short time. So, obviously they had some other mechanism for distribution in the past that was not cost prohibitive. Anyway, I'm surprised the cable company does not pay for the cost of getting the signal.


When I was out in GR setting up my parents' HDTV over the holidays, I e-mailed the station about the poor video quality and the possibility of removing the subchannel to improve it. They confirmed that they needed it for cable distribution. So, I asked about getting permission to access the DirecTV CBS-HD broadcast for the Super Bowl. They said that they spent a lot of money on the digital/HD equipment, and would not want their viewers viewing the national feed instead of WWMT. Those two issues seem contradictory to me.. They spend all the money on equipment for HD, then skimp on it by killing the video quality with a sub-channel.. penny wise, pound foolish.

They also said they were checking to see if the cable company could use the HD broadcast instead. That would be a very good solution. But, apparently they couldn't.
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post #196 of 8042 Old 03-15-2004, 05:11 PM
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Quote:


WWMT wrote:
In the late '90s, congress mandated that broadcasters had to build and broadcast in a digital format and created a timetable for that to happen. WWMT has been broadcasting digitally since July of 2002, (WWMT-TV's legal Digital Television name is WWMT-DT and its digital assignment is Channel 2) and in High Definition for CBS prime programming since September of 2002. WWMT has invested nearly two million dollars to be able to do this, and CBS has invested much more than that. That cost is in addition to the cost of producing the programs in a digital, high-definition format.
. . .
Nancy L. Trimble Kern
Public Relations Mgr.

OK, WWMT has spent a lot on getting a federally mandated DT feed on the air. It seems to me that the costs stated would have been spent regardless of if any cable or satellite system wanted to pick up the feed.

First problem: The FCC does not require ANY broadcaster to be HD. So any money WWMT spent to make it HD or to pass CBS HD was entirely WWMT's choice. Why did they choose to do that? Hopefully to better serve their viewers on the bandwidth so kindly handed to them, for free, by our government.

Second problem: All that money was spent for the broadcast ... why do they NEED reinbursement from cable and satellite providers? It would be understandable if there was an EXTRA cost to getting on cable.

But, not only has our government given WWMT valueable spectrum, they have given them and other broadcasters the power to withhold their signals to cable and satellite viewers within their own Grade B viewing area.

One can only hope that once other, more enlightened, broadcasters get their HD signals on cable that WWMT will lose viewers. Ratings could be the wakeup call Ms. Trimble Kern and her company needs to get in gear. After all, ratings is money -- and if that's what WWMT cares about they should pay attention!

JL
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post #197 of 8042 Old 03-15-2004, 05:30 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by justalurker
OK, WWMT has spent a lot on getting a federally mandated DT feed on the air. It seems to me that the costs stated would have been spent regardless of if any cable or satellite system wanted to pick up the feed.

First problem: The FCC does not require ANY broadcaster to be HD. So any money WWMT spent to make it HD or to pass CBS HD was entirely WWMT's choice. Why did they choose to do that? Hopefully to better serve their viewers on the bandwidth so kindly handed to them, for free, by our government.

Second problem: All that money was spent for the broadcast ... why do they NEED reinbursement from cable and satellite providers? It would be understandable if there was an EXTRA cost to getting on cable.

But, not only has our government given WWMT valueable spectrum, they have given them and other broadcasters the power to withhold their signals to cable and satellite viewers within their own Grade B viewing area.

One can only hope that once other, more enlightened, broadcasters get their HD signals on cable that WWMT will lose viewers. Ratings could be the wakeup call Ms. Trimble Kern and her company needs to get in gear. After all, ratings is money -- and if that's what WWMT cares about they should pay attention!

JL

As an aside, I do believe the FCC screwed WWMT on their channel assignment since Detroit's channel 2 screws WWMT's signal strength.
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post #198 of 8042 Old 03-15-2004, 05:38 PM
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Yeah they did. Digital 2 is the worst they could of possibly gotten.
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post #199 of 8042 Old 03-16-2004, 01:02 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Wolffpack
As an aside, I do believe the FCC screwed WWMT on their channel assignment since Detroit's channel 2 screws WWMT's signal strength.

In this case, it appears that WWMT wants to pass that on to the consumer as well. If I were WWMT I would welcome any way of getting my signal to customers ... but then it appears they would rather not have the coverage.

At some point congress and the FCC will make some cable/satellite carriage rules for DTV. For now broadcasters cannot force their DT signal on cable/satellite nor can cable/satellite force any DT signal on their system.

JL
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post #200 of 8042 Old 03-16-2004, 03:49 PM
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Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but if Digital 2 is so awful (and I can see why it is) then why hasnt WWMT gone to the FCC to get something different? Or have they? Would the FCC refuse them?
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post #201 of 8042 Old 03-16-2004, 03:53 PM
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I was told by TV8 in the last years thread that it would cost WWMT millions of dollars in FCC fees to change it. (figures!)
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post #202 of 8042 Old 03-17-2004, 11:50 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kamakzie
I was told by TV8 in the last years thread that it would cost WWMT millions of dollars in FCC fees to change it. (figures!)

If they would have filed early it wouldn't have cost them too much. In the end they want to be on VHF ... so they stuck with channel 2.

JL
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post #203 of 8042 Old 03-18-2004, 05:57 PM
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Well, it looks like 4 NCAA tourney games tomorrow (Friday) will be in HD and 2 more on Sunday. Last year I think I recall WWMT broadcasting the HD games on 3-1 and the regular regional games on 3-2 (probably for the cable feed). Anyone know if they'll do the same this year? Reading the forums it looks like many CBS stations will be going that route....I sure hope WWMT steps up and does it also. If they are going to have a sub-channel, this is a time it makes sense to use it!

....probably wouldn't hurt to let the station know we'd like to see it happen!
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post #204 of 8042 Old 03-18-2004, 06:13 PM
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I still see no logic in putting them at VHF 2. Unless they have a way to over come the interference which comes at that frequency.

Quote:


Originally posted by justalurker
If they would have filed early it wouldn't have cost them too much. In the end they want to be on VHF ... so they stuck with channel 2.

JL

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post #205 of 8042 Old 03-18-2004, 07:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by djtz31
Well, it looks like 4 NCAA tourney games tomorrow (Friday) will be in HD and 2 more on Sunday.

I hope you're right! TitanTV doesn't show them as HD either Friday or Sunday. But they've been wrong before.
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post #206 of 8042 Old 03-19-2004, 05:57 AM
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For any of the others out there getting their HD fix through Comcast, I just received this email from WWMT that might be an update on the situation:

Dear Raj,

We are hoping to negotiate with Comcast in the very near future. The
initial contact has been made and we hope to come to a mutually
agreeable
position shortly. Thank you for your interest in WWMT's HD signal. As
you
know, it is always offered free, over the air!

Sincerely,

Nancy L. Trimble Kern
WWMT Programming & Public Relations Mgr.
269-388-3446
nanckern@wwmt.com


I just hope they get this going before March Madness is over..
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post #207 of 8042 Old 03-19-2004, 09:35 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ryangs
I hope you're right! TitanTV doesn't show them as HD either Friday or Sunday. But they've been wrong before.

Looks like they were right.
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post #208 of 8042 Old 03-20-2004, 07:15 AM
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Has anybody called WWMT to ask why they are showing the HD NCAA games in SD? CBS only showed the Kansas City games a couple of times but when they did show it, I believe the rest of the country saw it in HD.

Also, in other parts of the country, the stations are using their digital subchannel for the entire HD game, and the SD subchannel for the game they chose to show locally. Why couldn't WWMT do this too?

I'll call, but I don't have the control room number or whatever the right number is.

We've got to fix this before Sunday...another set of HD games that we won't be able to watch.
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post #209 of 8042 Old 03-26-2004, 01:46 PM
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Any chance we'll see any HD games tonight?
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post #210 of 8042 Old 03-27-2004, 01:29 PM
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Okay, I gotta give WWMT credit. Last night's HD game looked great!
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