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post #8641 of 14496 Old 01-08-2006, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post

I had a strange problem happen a few days ago, and I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else. My HD DVR box, which I've had for over a year, suddenly has lost the abiltiy to display any functions. I can watch TV fine, but I can't access the onscreen guide, the DVR menu, or even see the channel displayed on the TV screen when I switch channels. If, for example, I press the "My DVR" button, I see the yellow light flash on the lower right of the LED box of the STB, but nothing displays on the TV screen. Nothing. I am able to pause, rewind, etc if I'm watching live TV, but there is no display on the TV showing the function graphic. The folks at comcast say this can't be fixed, and I need to exchange the box for a new one. Bummer, since I have some shows recorded that I never got to see...

Probably a stupid question, but have you power cycled the box?
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post #8642 of 14496 Old 01-08-2006, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post

I had a strange problem happen a few days ago, and I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else. My HD DVR box, which I've had for over a year, suddenly has lost the abiltiy to display any functions. . . . Bummer, since I have some shows recorded that I never got to see...

You could wait for the next firmware update - that will re-initialize it.

Read your PM . . .
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post #8643 of 14496 Old 01-09-2006, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fender4645 View Post

Probably a stupid question, but have you power cycled the box?

Yep, several times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barovelli View Post

You could wait for the next firmware update - that will re-initialize it.

Interesting idea-- I hadn't thought of that. How do I know when the next firmware update is scheduled?

Quote:


Read your PM . . .

PM = ?

I'm guessing this probably answers my earlier question...
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post #8644 of 14496 Old 01-09-2006, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post

PM = ?

PM = Private Message

Go to 'User CP' at the top of this screen and look on the left-hand side.
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post #8645 of 14496 Old 01-09-2006, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by fender4645 View Post

PM = Private Message

Go to 'User CP' at the top of this screen and look on the left-hand side.

Got it. Thanks.
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post #8646 of 14496 Old 01-09-2006, 10:54 PM
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Back a year or so ago, Sony was talking about a DVR with Cable Card. I think they finally started selling it, but I am not sure. Has anyone here seen/used one? How would it compare to the announced TIVO box?

Greg
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post #8647 of 14496 Old 01-10-2006, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gfbuchanan View Post

Back a year or so ago, Sony was talking about a DVR with Cable Card. I think they finally started selling it, but I am not sure. Has anyone here seen/used one? How would it compare to the announced TIVO box?

Greg

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537711
Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - AVS Forum
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post #8648 of 14496 Old 01-10-2006, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gfbuchanan View Post

Back a year or so ago, Sony was talking about a DVR with Cable Card. I think they finally started selling it, but I am not sure. Has anyone here seen/used one? How would it compare to the announced TIVO box?

Greg

It was launched and discontinued with a year.. not a successful product at all. Too bad that the price point was so high otherwise I might have tried one.

peter
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post #8649 of 14496 Old 01-10-2006, 07:26 PM
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Not to drag the Tivo thing out but those that are interested, there's a demo of the Series 3 Tivo here: http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/ne...ok-0108051437/

A couple of interesting things:

1. The pre-release software showed the channel guide a "grid" rather then the conventional "2 column" they currently have. I personally think this is a step back -- I've always thought the Tivo guide was superior to other grid-type guides.

2. Bob Pony (the Tivo guy giving the demo) eluded that you must buy the external hard drive from Tivo (i.e. you can't just go to Best Buy, get a hard drive, and hook it up).

3. Price has not been set but the guys doing the interview are guessing $800-$1000 (like Keenan)
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post #8650 of 14496 Old 01-10-2006, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fender4645 View Post


3. Price has not been set but the guys doing the interview are guessing $800-$1000 (like Keenan)

The product would be stillborn at $800, IMO, because it would be linked to a monthly cost on top of that. Verrrrry limited market appeal when so many DVR offerings are just over the horizon.

I think the author's guess at price points is flawed anyway because it's almost solely based on the price of the older HD Tivo. The market has changed dramatically since then.
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post #8651 of 14496 Old 01-10-2006, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fender4645 View Post


1. The pre-release software showed the channel guide a "grid" rather then the conventional "2 column" they currently have. I personally think this is a step back -- I've always thought the Tivo guide was superior to other grid-type guides.

I'm fairly certain that was just the alternate guide they were using, that was the same guide as the DirecTV guide which you can change to the TiVo 2-column guide by hitting INFO and changing it.

Nice box, but we were told last year at CES that TiVo would be putting out a 2 CableCARD box and it never materialized. Hopefully this one makes it to market by the end of 2006. By then maybe the guesstimated price will have dropped.
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post #8652 of 14496 Old 01-10-2006, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobm View Post

The product would be stillborn at $800, IMO, because it would be linked to a monthly cost on top of that. Verrrrry limited market appeal when so many DVR offerings are just over the horizon.

I think the author's guess at price points is flawed anyway because it's almost solely based on the price of the older HD Tivo. The market has changed dramatically since then.

You're probably right about the price, but I wouldn't under-estimate the power of the TiVo brand.
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post #8653 of 14496 Old 01-10-2006, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

You're probably right about the price, but I wouldn't under-estimate the power of the TiVo brand.

When the original came out, there weren't many options. If and when this thing gets to market, there will probably be several, and from manufacturers much better at hardware design and marketing.

Bring out a $800 box when Samsung, LG, Sony and perhaps Apple???? are offering the same for hundreds less? Let's not forget the MSOs with their no upfront monthly lease options.

The Tivo brand doesn't carry enough weight to justify the difference for all but the diehard Tivo fan, IMO.

You can't float the company by spending huge amounts on R&D, forging your own trail with proprietary software(most others will probably opt for OCAP, ACAP or some derivative) and expect to sell to enough people to survive. Somebody in management at Tivo needs to get a serious bean counter perspective. They just don't have the cash reserves to be stupid for another 12-18 months.
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post #8654 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobm View Post

The product would be stillborn at $800, IMO, because it would be linked to a monthly cost on top of that. Verrrrry limited market appeal when so many DVR offerings are just over the horizon.

You mean the monthly cost of CableCARD or the monthly cost of TiVo? TiVo does offer lifetime subscriptions and I would hope they would bundle lifetime into the product if they decide to sell for a high price vs low price to hook you in plus monthly as the current product is marketed. Early adopters tend to have a different view than mass market consumers.

I did find it nice that Mr. Pony confirmed the unit will support CC 2.0 (he mentioned 2 single-stream or 1 multi-stream CC) Of course never believe what you are told until you see it, anything is subject to change.
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post #8655 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobm View Post

Bring out a $800 box when Samsung, LG, Sony and perhaps Apple???? are offering the same for hundreds less? Let's not forget the MSOs with their no upfront monthly lease options.
...
You can't float the company by spending huge amounts on R&D, forging your own trail with proprietary software(most others will probably opt for OCAP, ACAP or some derivative) and expect to sell to enough people to survive. Somebody in management at Tivo needs to get a serious bean counter perspective. They just don't have the cash reserves to be stupid for another 12-18 months.

The leasing option comparison is not necessarily an apples to apples comparison as the HD TiVo has residual value which can be recovered if one wants to change out hardware where the lease costs are lost. This is significant in the cost calculation, as I've made money on every PVR I've bought, used, and later sold. Not saying you will necessarily make money, but there is residual value and it isn't just a few bucks.

On the other hand, the lease option is nice with current policies w/r/t RMA process. Exchanging your Moto box at the Comcast office is nicer than RMA'ing to TiVo for repair. I would hope TiVo worked more reliably than some of the stories people have posted on here about the Motorolas but I imagine the first releases will be buggy with updates forthcoming.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought OCAP was middleware for Interactive Services at least partially Java-based. As such these services could run on HD TiVo as long as OCAP middleware is provided (ie the execution engine and APIs) So for example you could still purchase the Home Shopping Network at a push of a button instead of calling it in. I don't think OCAP is requiring the actual PVR application to be built on OCAP. Specifically in the OCAP specs they say OCAP must be able to run on different operating systems. My impression is for future channels folks envision per-channel interactive services as well as global interactive services, kind of like a web-station that downloads various Java or Soap apps.

If I'm interpreting the placement of OCAP correctly, then IMO it doesn't have real bearing on HD TiVo's success, as I think most people would be just overjoyed to have a DVR that reliably records what they tell it to record, which handles time slot changes, not recording previously recorded episodes, Daylight Savings Times changes, etc. In addition, if necessary, TiVo can add an OCAP engine (if they haven't done so already) and run whatever OCAP apps come down the pipe.

For the record, I'm not a TiVo die-hard fan. I've never owned one. Mainly use ReplayTV, but I do respect TiVo for pushing on and trying to offer us an alternative DVR choice. There are many creature comforts TiVo (and other DVRs) offer which the cable companies do not and sometimes will not. If no secondary PVR market is allowed to develop, you will be locked into whatever the cable company wants to give you, which is not always what you desire, but always what they desire. When you pay for your hardware out of your own pocket, the manufacturer inevitably becomes more responsive to your needs.
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post #8656 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 08:21 AM
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Buying electronics with an investment mentality is the fast track to the poor house. If you're one of the ones who paid $1k for the HD Tivo, what's the resale value when DirecTV is going all MPEG4 for it's new HD stuff? The depreciation over two years far, far exceeds what a $10/mo lease would. Even if your price point is the current $500, you're hosed.

I'm viewing OCAP/ACAP as the way to seamlessly integrate with all potential cable services and offer full interactive. From a business perspective, wouldn't it make sense to do that? The alternative would be for Tivo to take the somewhat arrogant approch of "our interface is so good that it's worth giving up other features". Flawed decision in my mind.

Again, hardware development is not Tivo's strong suit. When the competition is heating up, why take on a difficult design effort and risk ending up with hardware that won't be supported by the cable cos? Look at the VOIP situation for a good example of how your hardware can mysteriously not work correctly on someone else's network. Got Vonage? Hope you're not using it on Comcast broadband. But amazingly Comcast's own VOIP seems to work pretty well(personal experience).

You have to look at this from the perspective of the brand new DVR customer. Don't get confused with the EXISTING Tivo customers who are thrilled to death. Some signficiant number of those see the value of Tivo and are willing to pay a premium. Some see the value but in no way would pay $1k all over again. What about the new guy who doesn't understand the difference between Tivo and say a Comcast box? How you going to sell him on the idea that the Tivo is worth $800 more?

I should note that I'm simple in my needs/expectations for a DVR, so the Comcast box I use fills those. I don't have the problems some report, so not inclined to buy into the suggestion that it's a junk box.
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post #8657 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 09:29 AM
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This is OT from the current conversation, but I've been having recurrences of the sluggish remote/key queuing issue. About once every couple weeks the box just refused to respond. Nothing works except unplugging it and rebooting. Anyone with a PIII box using component out have this problem? (I'm on my second PII box).

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post #8658 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 11:33 AM
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I have one of the version III boxes and it must be unplugged at least once a week when it starts to lock up (no response to remote, FF/RW stops working, or recorded shows won't play).

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post #8659 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 01:16 PM
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Ok. that answers that . No exchange in my future. I asked CSR if they'd had any reports of this type on the PIII's. of course they said no.

A side note, of course the lock-ups happen during primetime when I need the box to work properly.

Best and thanks for the reply.
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post #8660 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 01:30 PM
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I've gotten pre-emptive and just cycle the box (by unplugging it) each weekend, when I remember to.

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post #8661 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobm View Post

Buying electronics with an investment mentality is the fast track to the poor house.
...
I'm viewing OCAP/ACAP as the way to seamlessly integrate with all potential cable services and offer full interactive. From a business perspective, wouldn't it make sense to do that? The alternative would be for Tivo to take the somewhat arrogant approch of "our interface is so good that it's worth giving up other features". Flawed decision in my mind.

Again, hardware development is not Tivo's strong suit. When the competition is heating up, why take on a difficult design effort and risk ending up with hardware that won't be supported by the cable cos?
...
I should note that I'm simple in my needs/expectations for a DVR, so the Comcast box I use fills those. I don't have the problems some report, so not inclined to buy into the suggestion that it's a junk box.

No one is advocating investing in electronics. However one needs to understand there is residual value. In your HD-TiVo example one could have recovered significantly more residual value if they had read about D*TV dropping TiVo on AVS and sold their HD-TiVo ahead of time. Just like anything else, the residual value is variable. If you wait too long your residual value could end up going to zero. If you sell while a product is still current the actual cost too you will not be the full amount you paid.
...
And I'm viewing OCAP as a Java VM-like plugin for TiVo 3. I don't necessarily see any flaw. What OCAP applications are there today that you feel are must haves?

The reason why it would make sense for TiVo to control the hardware and software is they can have control over the quality and usefullness of the product rather than being hamstrung by someone else's design. TiVo may want to transform themselves into a Netflix download device. Good luck getting Comcast to agree to allow them to do that on their network. TiVo could implement advanced scheduling features like reordering your show records across multiple TiVo 3's to alleviate various recording conflicts and pseudo :01 :59 conflicts. You might see unit to unit streaming before Motorola can deploy there MoCa thingy.

By your thinking Apple would have been dead ages ago, yet they managed to survive and flourish. There are more pieces to the puzzle to success than how you are framing it. If you have very simple needs, the Comcast PVR may well serve your needs.

If TiVo put out the exact same product as Comcast/Motorola PVR on a proprietary platform, then yes, that is a crazy plan. Obviously the thinking is they are going to innovate faster with more consumer friendly features than Comcast, whose has a captive audience and wants to concentrate on extracting more value out of their customers. The whole premise behind paying for TiVo is they can provide you better functionality than what you can get from the MSO. If TiVo cannot deliver on the premise of how they stay in business, then obviously they will fail.

TiVo may very well fail in this market, but I'm going to give them a chance and see what they put out before passing judgment on them. I can tell you I'm certainly not happy with the features of the Motorola 6412, especially the scheduling inflexibility, lack of disk expansion, and lack of unit to unit streaming.

It's not just a TiVo fanboy thing. There really are quite useful features in these 3rd-party DVRs that are nowhere to be found in the MSO-sponsored DVRs and other than HD recording, a lot of other functionality your are taking a step backwards when using the 6412.
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post #8662 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 02:50 PM
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From 12/7/05:

Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

According to JWhip, ESPN2, Universal-HD and the new MTV-HD are on the near horizon....for areas that have the bandwidth available...the Bay Area still does not even have TNT-HD...

Just saw that there will be hours and hours of Olympic programing from Italy in February and much of it will be in HD (not live on the West Coast for NBC, however). But Universal HD will carry much of it in HD.

Will Comcast pull a big surprise and carry Universal HD for the Olympics?

Place your bets. I'm giving 10-1 odds. Guess which way.

- Phil
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post #8663 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 03:16 PM
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I live in Hayward. Does anyone have an idea when comcast is going to offer INHD1 & INHD2 plus other upgrades in this area? Comcast csrs are evasive when asked this question. Is there any reason to explain why it is so difficult for comcast to upgrade their service in the east bay? I know this has been asked before but I was wondering if anyone has fresh news on this issue or has finally figured out how comcast goes about its upgrades. Thanks.
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post #8664 of 14496 Old 01-11-2006, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Klein View Post

From 12/7/05:



Just saw that there will be hours and hours of Olympic programing from Italy in February and much of it will be in HD (not live on the West Coast for NBC, however). But Universal HD will carry much of it in HD.

Will Comcast pull a big surprise and carry Universal HD for the Olympics?

Place your bets. I'm giving 10-1 odds. Guess which way.

- Phil

I'll give 100-1 odds.
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post #8665 of 14496 Old 01-12-2006, 12:07 PM
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According to the comcast web site the available channels in my area (95124) are:

ESPN HD - Channel 723
INHD - Channel 719
INHD2 - Channel 720

Fox Sports Network Bay Area - Click for schedule of games

KGO (ABC) - Channel 707
KNTV (NBC) - Channel 703
KPIX (CBS) - Channel 705

KRON4 HD featuring HDNet- Channel 704
Discovery HD Theater - 722
KQED (PBS) - Channel 709

We also offer 4 HDTV Premium movie channels*
HBO - Channel 730
Showtime - Channel 736
Cinemax - Channel 732
Starz! - Channel 734


Is this list complete? Do they really not have FOX (KTVU HD) Is there anything else missing?
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post #8666 of 14496 Old 01-12-2006, 12:59 PM
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they do have KTVU, since just before last years super bowl
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post #8667 of 14496 Old 01-12-2006, 01:23 PM
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I am about to pick up a Panasonic 50inch plasma (TH 50PX50U most likely) and I want to upgrade to HD service.

Based on what I've read, now that DirectTV has upgraded to MPEG4, they have more HD channels than Comcast and they now have the local channels in HD. I've heard the picture quality is rumored to be slightly better on DirectTV, but I haven't heard a conclusive reason why this is or isn't true. BestBuy has a swingin' deal on DirectTV boxes-- total of $300 rebates on the DirectTV Tivo box if you also buy the big screen from them.

The additional cost of extra satellite boxes isn't too much of an issue for me as we only have two TVs-- the HD theater in the family room and the standard def TV in the bedroom.

I'm new to this, but DirectTV seems like the way to go. What am I missing?
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post #8668 of 14496 Old 01-12-2006, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZinMe View Post

I am about to pick up a Panasonic 50inch plasma (TH 50PX50U most likely) and I want to upgrade to HD service.

Based on what I've read, now that DirectTV has upgraded to MPEG4, they have more HD channels than Comcast and they now have the local channels in HD. I've heard the picture quality is rumored to be slightly better on DirectTV, but I haven't heard a conclusive reason why this is or isn't true. BestBuy has a swingin' deal on DirectTV boxes-- total of $300 rebates on the DirectTV Tivo box if you also buy the big screen from them.

The additional cost of extra satellite boxes isn't too much of an issue for me as we only have two TVs-- the HD theater in the family room and the standard def TV in the bedroom.

I'm new to this, but DirectTV seems like the way to go. What am I missing?

comcast is more expensive, but the quality is much better. i believe D* uses a lot of hd-lite so you'll get something halfway between plain ol digital picture and hd picture.

comcast will let you believe you are getting a good deal ... for the first 3 months... then boom. another thing you should look at is if the dvr can record in HD. I don't know if that one you are looking at can, but comcast's 6412 definitely can, albeit with a few annoying bugs.
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post #8669 of 14496 Old 01-12-2006, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox-SJ View Post

According to the comcast web site the available channels in my area (95124) are:

ESPN HD - Channel 723
INHD - Channel 719
INHD2 - Channel 720

Fox Sports Network Bay Area - Click for schedule of games

KGO (ABC) - Channel 707
KNTV (NBC) - Channel 703
KPIX (CBS) - Channel 705

KRON4 HD featuring HDNet- Channel 704
Discovery HD Theater - 722
KQED (PBS) - Channel 709

We also offer 4 HDTV Premium movie channels*
HBO - Channel 730
Showtime - Channel 736
Cinemax - Channel 732
Starz! - Channel 734


Is this list complete? Do they really not have FOX (KTVU HD) Is there anything else missing?

I plugged in my area code, 94928, and it doesn't show KTVU either, but believe me, it's there on channel 702.

Bobby 

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post #8670 of 14496 Old 01-12-2006, 02:16 PM
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ZinMe,
I have Comcast basic for locals and Digital Classic package for FOXBA HD sports. I also have DirecTV HD TiVo but it doesn't do HD locals for SF or FOXBA HD. DirecTV does not have the MPEG4 DVR available yet, it will be a few months more. I suggest you try Comcast for a few months and you can switch to DirecTV later since Comcast doesn't require a contract and equipment is leased. DirecTV requres you to purchase and a two year contract for programming.
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Closed Thread Local HDTV Info and Reception

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