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post #3781 of 10906 Old 01-12-2009, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelation View Post

KMTP is a plain joke. Even the word "they" may not be accurate.

Yes, but due to the lack of programming it shows Classic Arts Showcase at least eight hours a day, which IMHO is more than enough to justify its existence.
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post #3782 of 10906 Old 01-12-2009, 07:38 PM
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I have a question, and a friend has a question, both about TV volume levels. My friend's questions first:

(1) A friend in Albany with indoor antennas asks why she has volume changes during a program. (And not just the louder commercials!) She has analog TVs with digital converter boxes. (It didn't happen before she had the digital boxes.) She also notices volume reductions when the picture "is breaking up" ("weak signal," she says because of weather or the sprites of the air).

(2) I would like to know why some digital channels are noticeably louder than others. I've had to turn down the sound when I switch to channel 5.1 for some time now. Lately I've noticed that channel 7.1 also seems louder than the other digital channels. I have a one-year-old Panasonic HDTV with an ancient roof antenna and line of sight to the towers across the bay from Kensington (just north of Berkeley, high in the hills).

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post #3783 of 10906 Old 01-13-2009, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

What about KQED? They have been carrying the same stuff on NTSC 9 and ATSC 9.1 for some months now.

oh. somehow i missed this. it was bugging my parents when i set up their "favorites" on their new TV a few months ago. i was able to get them all the locals in HD except KQED since the HD feed wasn't showing the shows they wanted. glad KQED finally addressed this disconnect.
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post #3784 of 10906 Old 01-13-2009, 03:24 PM
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Someone on the HDTV-in-SF Yahoo Group asked several questions about the upcoming transition:

Do I need to reprogram (remove & add) all the digital channels that change frequency on 2/17?

Are all of these digital frequency changes occurring on the 17th itself?

Will PSIP continue to be used afterwards (for virtual channel numbering)?

Can I expect better signal strength/more channels after digital
frequencies change (as most seem to be broadcasting at higher power
afterward)??

I answered him there and thought the information might be useful to those reading this list, so I'm including it here as well.

- - -

All of the changes will be happening over the course of a few hours late on February 17th or early February 18th. All of the analog stations have to be off the air by 11:59 pm February 17th. (This date could change if Congress decides to go along with the Consumer Union and Obama requests. I hope the date doesn't change!)

The digital channel changes will happen at the same time. Stations like KGO 7, KSBW 8, KXTV 10, KQET 25, KICU 36 and KTXL 40 can change whenever they want, since they're moving their digital transmission to their analog channel. Others will have to wait for another station's analog channel to go off the air before they move to their new channel, like KVIE moving to 9, KTNC to 14, KTFK to 26, KFTY to 32, KRON to 38 and KTVU to 44.

To get all of these changes reprogrammed into your tuner, all you'll have to do is re-scan. Many tuners will not pick up the new signals until you re-scan; some will do it automatically if you tune to the new channel, but a re-scan will solve any problems. Of course, if you have signals coming from several directions, you'll have to go and manually add the ones that didn't get picked up during the scan process.

Stations are required by the FCC to ID using their old analog channel number, even after the transition, and the PSIP information is supposed to send the old analog numbers. I think it was the NAB, which represents stations, that lobbied for this and got it. They didn't want to change their on air identity, or have people have to learn all of the new channel numbers. KTVU will still be FOX 2, and show up as 2-1, even though it'll be transmitting on 44, KPIX will be CBS 5, and show up as 5-1, even though they'll be on 29, etc.. ABC 7 on 7-1, NEWS 10 on 10-1, and so on, will actually be correct.

As for signal strength and more channels, it will depend on the station and where you are. Most of the stations that aren't moving channels are now operating in their final configuration, except for those from Sutro Tower, so you won't see any changes there. Those stations changing channels might come in at a different signal strength, both because of the frequency change and maybe a different power level.

At Sutro Tower, all of the analog antennas will be coming down and all new antennas for digital will be going up. Sometime in late Summer or Fall when the installation is complete, you will probably see an increase in signal for those stations because they'll be moving to better, higher antennas than what they're using now for digital.

The new channels you'll see will be low powered stations that cover small areas, so some will see these new ones, some won't, and, of course, you might see new sub-channels on existing channels.

My channel lists will be updated as the changes are made, so you can keep an eye on what's happening by looking at: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html. My new list, http://www.choisser.com/sfonair2.html, is an identical list, but it's listed by post-transition channel number instead of virtual channel number. The power and antenna heights shown are the post-transition values for all stations and for the new antennas at Sutro Tower.

Larry
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post #3785 of 10906 Old 01-14-2009, 12:57 PM
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I posted the below in the Comcast thread, but was wondering if anyone saw it with an OTA feed?

Anyone notice some sporadic red lines on the right third of the image last night on KPIX? They were very thin and went from top to bottom and flashed a few times before disappearing.

I also noticed what looks like a new KPIX bug? The "5" next to the 'eye", has that been there long? I don't recall seeing it before, and since those red lines look to be at the 4x3 safe border I wonder if it's related. I saw them during "The Mentalist" and "NCIS".

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post #3786 of 10906 Old 01-14-2009, 01:49 PM
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I just checked my backup Letterman recording from last night (done via DirecTV), and that line is there sporadically. I've never seen that "5" logo before*, so I have to think the two are related -- the line is probably coming out of the whatever logo inserter is now in the signal path.

*I don't watch KPIX that often, because their audio is way over-compressed.
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post #3787 of 10906 Old 01-14-2009, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

I posted the below in the Comcast thread, but was wondering if anyone saw it with an OTA feed?

Anyone notice some sporadic red lines on the right third of the image last night on KPIX? They were very thin and went from top to bottom and flashed a few times before disappearing.

I also noticed what looks like a new KPIX bug? The "5" next to the 'eye", has that been there long? I don't recall seeing it before, and since those red lines look to be at the 4x3 safe border I wonder if it's related. I saw them during "The Mentalist" and "NCIS".


Jim,

I saw the same thing on a couple of KPIX shows but the streaks were much longer and they only showed up sporadically. I thought initially that it was just a problem with one of their shows but it showed up in a couple of them so I'm thinking its a problem at the station not the programs themselves. Of course we could just blame Comcast

Laters,
Mikef5
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post #3788 of 10906 Old 01-14-2009, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikef5 View Post

Jim,

I saw the same thing on a couple of KPIX shows but the streaks were much longer and they only showed up sporadically. I thought initially that it was just a problem with one of their shows but it showed up in a couple of them so I'm thinking its a problem at the station not the programs themselves. Of course we could just blame Comcast

Laters,
Mikef5

The lines were longer, that shot above was all I could get from SageTV while pausing, they were thinner and sharper looking as well.

BTW, Amanda Righetti is smokin' hot!
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post #3789 of 10906 Old 01-14-2009, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videojanitor View Post

I just checked my backup Letterman recording from last night (done via DirecTV), and that line is there sporadically. I've never seen that "5" logo before*, so I have to think the two are related -- the line is probably coming out of the whatever logo inserter is now in the signal path.

*I don't watch KPIX that often, because their audio is way over-compressed.

That's what I was thinking as well, guess we'll see how it looks tonight.

I do wish KPIX would fix their audio...
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post #3790 of 10906 Old 01-15-2009, 09:52 PM
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So I researched this thread to find the answer to a simple question without success. So I will take a chance and just ask it.

I am helping a disabled friend upgrade from a 60's tv and ancient P.O.S Comcast cable box to a Toshiba flat screen HDTV. She is in a rent-controlled apartment that cannot be upgraded to an HD cablebox. When she bought the Toshiba HDTV, Best Buy sold her a digital tuner to get OTA HD. The Toshiba has a built in NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner so maybe we can bypass the cable box but how to we also hook in the OTA tuner? (1G CoaxTee?). Or do we upgrade the cable box and plug the OTA into the new cable box and then do composite/component video to the TV?

Could not find the answer in the many posts before me.

Thanks in advance

Philip Macafee

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post #3791 of 10906 Old 01-15-2009, 10:14 PM
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generally, you can't "combine" cable and OTA over the same coax.

so you will have to choose. Sounds like one interesting place to start would be find the cable box, disconnect it, unplug it, and put it in a drawer somewhere. even if you have cable service you probably won't need it for the following test.

then take the cable that comes out of the ground (or the wall or wherever) and screw it into the appropriately-shaped hole in the back of the TV.

then find out how to make the TV scan for channels.

if the cable coming out of your wall is coming from comcast, then tell the TV you want to scan for "Cable" channels.

When the scan is finished just press channel-up and channel-down on the remote to browse through however many channels you ended up with.

if this test demonstrates that you already can receive all the local channels you could get via OTA and you want to explore further *cable* possibilities, great, but at that point this is not the place to post for more help. Go to the comcast thread at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793017

if the uncompressed glory that is OTA HD still seems compelling to you at this point, you will need to take other measures and others here may be able to advise you how to ditch the comcast service in favor of OTA. but very likely that will involve letting the cable coming out of your wall just dangle unconnected while you buy an antenna and connect it, via its own coax cable, directly to your TV and re-scanning for channels, only this time you will be telling the TV to scan for "Air".

you have a TV that can do both, so you can compare these two strategies and have fun.

(Or if you *really* want to compare them side by side, you could take the thing that best buy sold you, connect an antenna to its input, and connect its output to the TV via its composite/component/HDMI input. You can tune the TV's onboard tuner and the external tuner device to the same show and just switch back and forth by switching between "Tuner" and (for example) "Component" on the TV. But now you have another remote to deal with, etc)

realistically, if you're getting locals over free cable, you can save yourself some trouble and just start watching using the method above. but again, this is not the place to go into the details.

Good Luck
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post #3792 of 10906 Old 01-15-2009, 10:14 PM
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pmac--

Plug the Toshiba's "cable" rf input directly into the cable outlet in the wall, bypassing the old Comcast STB. Then run a channel scan on the TV and compare your results with what you'll find for QAM channels in your Zipcode at this website. You should see a recognizable correlation between that listing and your scan in which all of the usual non-premium channels and the local network HD channels will be available.

I suggest that you try to return the "OTA tuner" to BB, since it's superfluous to the TV's built-in tuner, as well as useless unless you can connect it to an antenna. (If there is an antenna available, you can just connect the TV's "antenna" input to that directly also)
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post #3793 of 10906 Old 01-16-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

pmac--


I suggest that you try to return the "OTA tuner" to BB, since it's superfluous to the TV's built-in tuner, as well as useless unless you can connect it to an antenna. (If there is an antenna available, you can just connect the TV's "antenna" input to that directly also)

And while you are at it, I would also suggest that you talk to the store manager about his/her salesperson selling your friend something that obviously isn't needed. That is taking advantage of the their customer's ignorance and does not reflect well on their sales strategies.

Bobby 

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post #3794 of 10906 Old 01-16-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmacafee View Post

So I researched this thread to find the answer to a simple question without success. So I will take a chance and just ask it.

I am helping a disabled friend upgrade from a 60's tv and ancient P.O.S Comcast cable box to a Toshiba flat screen HDTV. She is in a rent-controlled apartment that cannot be upgraded to an HD cablebox. When she bought the Toshiba HDTV, Best Buy sold her a digital tuner to get OTA HD. The Toshiba has a built in NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner so maybe we can bypass the cable box but how to we also hook in the OTA tuner? (1G CoaxTee?). Or do we upgrade the cable box and plug the OTA into the new cable box and then do composite/component video to the TV?

Could not find the answer in the many posts before me.

Thanks in advance

OK, turns out that the box she bought is just an OTA antenna. Can that be paired with the cable on a Tee?

Philip Macafee

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post #3795 of 10906 Old 01-16-2009, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmacafee View Post

OK, turns out that the box she bought is just an OTA antenna. Can that be paired with the cable on a Tee?

No. You need to separately connect antennas and cable feeds to the TV. If it doesn't have two inputs, then you'll need to use an "A/B" switch (available cheaply at Radio Shack and other outlets). But unless it's clear that your friend needs both cable and OTA access you don't need to worry about this either. I suggest that you do some research on her viewing needs before you add unnecessary features that will just complicate the setup.
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post #3796 of 10906 Old 01-16-2009, 10:08 AM
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Thanks, Best Buy says to hook the OTA antenna to the coax-in on the cable box and then we do not have to buy a switch.

Philip Macafee

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post #3797 of 10906 Old 01-16-2009, 10:42 AM
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If your "cable box" has an antenna input it's different from any in my experience.
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post #3798 of 10906 Old 01-16-2009, 03:56 PM
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I live in south San Jose near the intersection of Hwy 85 & 75 (Oakridge Mall).

I have a Omni-Directional FM antenna similar to this:


And plan on getting a ChannelMaster CM4228 (the original version) to point towards Sutro Tower in S.F.

I'd like to understand how I should properly combine these together? Would a simple 3 dB splitter in reverse (combiner) do the trick?

Regards,
Scott
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post #3799 of 10906 Old 01-16-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miimura View Post

The new 4228HD has a redesigned continuous reflector grid. This enhances the high VHF reception that the 4228 already has. People had done their own mods to the old 4228 and published their results on the internet. I think CM realized, just like the clever modders, that this change is beneficial to many people.

- Mike

Can someone point the way to these mods?

Thanks,
Scott
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post #3800 of 10906 Old 01-16-2009, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottndsky View Post

And plan on getting a ChannelMaster CM4228 (the original version) to point towards Sutro Tower in S.F.

I'd like to understand how I should properly combine these together? Would a simple 3 dB splitter in reverse (combiner) do the trick?

Regards,
Scott

Get a Channel Master 0549 UHF-VHF/FM Joiner.

Chuck
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post #3801 of 10906 Old 01-17-2009, 08:49 AM
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Scott,

I'm looking at a similar setup (once I manage to mount my 4228).

Question -- where did you get your FM antenna?



bashtonsj

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Yahama, Denon, Pioneer, ... oh, my!
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post #3802 of 10906 Old 01-17-2009, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bashton View Post

Scott,

I'm looking at a similar setup (once I manage to mount my 4228).

Question -- where did you get your FM antenna?

I got it years ago, from Radioshack, I believe... It's mounted in the attic right now, but that will change this weekend.

I plan to put both the FM antenna, and a CM4228 I just picked up on craigslist ($40), on a 5 ft. tri-pod style mast on my roof. It became available after Sprint Broadband Direct went out of business.

I'd like to run a single cable back into the house to serve my FM tuner and the TV.

Regards,
Scott
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post #3803 of 10906 Old 01-17-2009, 11:50 AM
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I've seen reports that the new 4228HD has a redesigned continuous reflector grid, while pictures of the new antenna show it to have two separate screens, separated even more than the older model 4228. See http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228HD.htm for an artist's drawing. Has anyone actually seen one of the new models? If so, please let us know if it has one continuous screen or two separate ones.

Thanks.

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post #3804 of 10906 Old 01-17-2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottndsky View Post

Can someone point the way to these mods?
Thanks, Scott

I don't know where the mods are written up, but all you need to do is to make sure the two screens on the back of the 4228 make good contact with each other. You can use some bare aluminum wire and wrap it around the sides of the two screens in places, making sure that it's tight and won't wiggle loose in the wind.

Supposedly having the screen appear as one complete unit, rather than two, helps reception of the high VHF channels 7 to 13. But, as indicated in my previous post above, the new model 4228HD appears to have two separate screens, completely separated from each other, and it's designed for improved reception on VHF.

Until we see some actual comparisons of A-the old model without screens touching, B-the old model with screens touching and C-the new model, we won't know for sure what works the best.

Larry
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post #3805 of 10906 Old 01-18-2009, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

I posted the below in the Comcast thread, but was wondering if anyone saw it with an OTA feed?

Anyone notice some sporadic red lines on the right third of the image last night on KPIX? They were very thin and went from top to bottom and flashed a few times before disappearing.

I also noticed what looks like a new KPIX bug? The "5" next to the 'eye", has that been there long? I don't recall seeing it before, and since those red lines look to be at the 4x3 safe border I wonder if it's related. I saw them during "The Mentalist" and "NCIS".


I just noticed these lines today on the KPIX-DT OTA broadcast of the AFC championship game. The antenna feed is going directly into the tuner on my Panasonic Plasma (TH-C42FD18). The lines are red and blue and seem to come and go at randomly.

My Comcast feed through my Tivo HD doesn't seem to show these lines. The picture looks fine.

Any theories to share?

Regards,
Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

BTW, Amanda Righetti is smokin' hot!

I totally agree! ;-)
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post #3806 of 10906 Old 01-18-2009, 05:31 PM
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I see it too. I have seen a couple of vertical bright blue lines that have come and gone during the Steelers - Ravens game. My antenna cable goes directly into the back of my set.
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post #3807 of 10906 Old 01-18-2009, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DShue View Post

I see it too. I have seen a couple of vertical bright blue lines that have come and gone during the Steelers - Ravens game. My antenna cable goes directly into the back of my set.

I can see the blue and red lines also. Same lines OTA as well as on Dish feed.
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post #3808 of 10906 Old 01-19-2009, 01:47 AM
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The blue lines were real bright tonight on KPIX via Dish Network and OTA. I didn't see any red ones.

Larry
SF

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post #3809 of 10906 Old 01-19-2009, 12:18 PM
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All, A couple of additional questions. I am on the 1st floor of a 3 store condo complex. I have a GE 2447 Quantum Antenna in our living room about 5 feet from our sliding glass door. The door opens up to an open area. Our 2 bedrooms rooms on the other hand have a treet in front of them and so the number of channels I can get from either bedroom is greatly reduced. I wonder if there are any really strong indoor (As I have limited options for an out door antannea) antenna's that could work around the tree or is there any way to broadcast the signal I get from the living room wirelessly to the bedroom as I'd rather not have a cable running to the bedroom.

Here are the 2 I have tried.

GE 24775 Quantum Indoor HDTV Antenna

Philips MANT940 UHF Digital and Analog Indoor/Outdoor Antenna
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post #3810 of 10906 Old 01-21-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnSun View Post

I have a question, and a friend has a question, both about TV volume levels. My friend's questions first:

(1) A friend in Albany with indoor antennas asks why she has volume changes during a program. (And not just the louder commercials!) She has analog TVs with digital converter boxes. (It didn't happen before she had the digital boxes.) She also notices volume reductions when the picture "is breaking up" ("weak signal," she says because of weather or the sprites of the air).

(2) I would like to know why some digital channels are noticeably louder than others. I've had to turn down the sound when I switch to channel 5.1 for some time now. Lately I've noticed that channel 7.1 also seems louder than the other digital channels. I have a one-year-old Panasonic HDTV with an ancient roof antenna and line of sight to the towers across the bay from Kensington (just north of Berkeley, high in the hills).

I posted the questions above over a week ago, but no one has responded.

Have I posted on the wrong thread? It seems to my nontechnical self that the issues appear to fall under OTA reception. Is there another thread that handles these issues?

Am I wrong--or have these questions been answered before here? If so, forgive, and tell me to search harder!

DawnSun
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